PT TOLD To Renegotiate Or Else

[NismoZ]

No ride... per Robin Miller at SPEED. Now the 5 yr. contract doesn't make sense to Gerry, either. Perera DID test exceptionally well I hear but enough to want Tracy out? Say good-bye to about 50% of the gate at the Canadian races if that happens. PT thinks his deal is ironclad but it sounds like GF will put it to the test.

[Fio1]

To be honest, would you pay PT to keep crashing your cars when there are young talented drivers available that will do it for 1/3 his salary? All he did last year was try to get into a stock car. What kind of commitment is that?

[chop456]

To be honest, would you pay PT to keep crashing your cars when there are young talented drivers available that will do it for 1/3 his salary?
If I'd signed a contract to that effect. :gomer:

[jonovision_man]

To be honest, would you pay PT to keep crashing your cars when there are young talented drivers available that will do it for 1/3 his salary? All he did last year was try to get into a stock car. What kind of commitment is that?

Agreed... this idea that he's been loyal to the series is cute and all, but reality is that he didn't have any other offers.

jono

[Jag_Warrior]

That's how it seemed, jono. Which is why I think GF could have paid Paul a little less and offered AJ a little more and possibly made that pairing work. That's just the opinion from my armchair.

But now, Mr. Tracy has a contract. And if I had a contract (which I hadn't violated), if asked to renegotiate by email, I would do pretty much what Tracy is doing (go public in a round about way). I'd show up on Day 1 of Spring Training with my helmet bag and be prepared to get in the car... and get the same check that my contract says I should get. And if I didn't get it, that's what lawyers are for.

I respect Forsythe and what he has tried to do. More so than Kalkhoven, he is a racing guy. I just think it's spun out of control on him and he's getting some bad advice somewhere along the way.

As for this series ever getting back to the Big Time... it feels like that bridge is pretty much engulfed in flames now. How did we go from the triumphs of a few years ago to this???

[robot9000]

I agree. I like PT but think his Sell By date is fast approaching. But its not PT's fault that GF slid a good offer across the table.

GF...Man, who can figure out that guy? He always seems to have an issue that isn't really related to his problems (Crying about a 3rd franchise when the CART stock was dropping like Danica after the green flag). Sure, PT wads em up pretty consistantly. But that is new news how? Like Gerry didn't know that before he Inked the contract? Like there isn't a number of hot shoes out there that could at least keep pace (can you say Servia? AJ?). How GF can cry about it now is beyond me.

Now we have forum word that its really Nemic that is the issue (Nickalot saying PT and Nemic don't trade Christmas cards anymore and haven't for some time). Meanwhile, GF or Nemic or someone is firing almost the whole lot of the crew for some reason (one presumes its lack of performance?). Aren't these the same guys that got AJ to the front last year? Or the same guys we hear are also allocated to run the 327 car Atlantics team GF runs too (or Ran, depending on the rumor dejure).

Maybe its a little bit team, a little bit driver and a whole lot..........Owner? :saywhat:

[Insomniac]

To be honest, would you pay PT to keep crashing your cars when there are young talented drivers available that will do it for 1/3 his salary? All he did last year was try to get into a stock car. What kind of commitment is that?

I think you have to weigh that against what else he brings. He is one of the few recognizable names left in ChampCar. We talk about the constantly changing driver line-up, and this would just be more of the same. It was dumb to do a 5-year deal. I hope they can come to some agreement. PT isn't as fast, but he is good for the series. Also, didn't he say he is done pursuing NASCAR before or at the beginning of the season?

[Insomniac]

Agreed... this idea that he's been loyal to the series is cute and all, but reality is that he didn't have any other offers.

jono

You think no one in the IRL was willing to give him money? Honda wouldn't have ponied up to deal more of a blow to CC? He was more loyal than a lot of people.

[jonovision_man]

I think you'll find that most of the drivers who went to the IRL did so because their teams moved... and most of the drivers who stayed did so because their teams didn't.

And he was also fortunate to be working for a team that paid him, not exactly the norm in ChampCar...

And the IRL doesn't race in Canada, no real reason to throw money at him...

And if that Busch experiment had been less of a disaster, he'd be gonzo.

jono

[Dr. Corkski]

And Gesus Forsythe was expecting a loyalty discount from Allmendinger. :rofl:

[Insomniac]

I think you'll find that most of the drivers who went to the IRL did so because their teams moved... and most of the drivers who stayed did so because their teams didn't.

And he was also fortunate to be working for a team that paid him, not exactly the norm in ChampCar...

And the IRL doesn't race in Canada, no real reason to throw money at him...

And if that Busch experiment had been less of a disaster, he'd be gonzo.

jono

Drivers on both sides had their contracts expire since the mass exodus. No one went from the IRL to CC, but some went from CC to the IRL. I'm not saying he turned down a bucketload of cash to stay in CC, but I'm sure there were opportunities to leave. The "greener" (money) pastures are in the IRL right now. If NASCAR really wants to penetrate Canada, PT would be a good way to start.

[tllips]

Now we have forum word that its really Nemic that is the issue (Nickalot saying PT and Nemic don't trade Christmas cards anymore and haven't for some time). Meanwhile, GF or Nemic or someone is firing almost the whole lot of the crew for some reason (one presumes its lack of performance?). Aren't these the same guys that got AJ to the front last year? Or the same guys we hear are also allocated to run the 327 car Atlantics team GF runs too (or Ran, depending on the rumor dejure).



Wasn't the guy responsible for getting AJ to the front last year getting Bobby D to the front this year??

[Fio1]

I think you have to weigh that against what else he brings. He is one of the few recognizable names left in ChampCar. We talk about the constantly changing driver line-up, and this would just be more of the same. It was dumb to do a 5-year deal. I hope they can come to some agreement. PT isn't as fast, but he is good for the series. Also, didn't he say he is done pursuing NASCAR before or at the beginning of the season?

I think there are 2 sides to this story.

Do you really think that PT would keep his 5-year deal if Richard Childress offered him a ride tomorrow?

To be honest, I think CCWS will be missing something without PT. I think he adds a lot of spice to the series.

[Insomniac]

I think there are 2 sides to this story.

Do you really think that PT would keep his 5-year deal if Richard Childress offered him a ride tomorrow?

To be honest, I think CCWS will be missing something without PT. I think he adds a lot of spice to the series.

I don't know how the contract is laid out, but if Gerry is unable to just dump him, I'd hope PT couldn't just leave as well. I do think he would leave for a top NASCAR team if he could. From his public comments, that was his intention in the next couple of years. He thought he had a couple more competitive years left in CC.

[oddlycalm]

Nobody seems to know what's going one at FCR, and with Forsythe not in evidence that's unlikely to change. This situation looks like one that is likely to end ugly.

The chances of PT getting a decent seat in cabs is close to zero. Plenty of formula car drivers there already, most of whom beat him regularly when they raced against each other.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

Sad really and yes it will end ugly.

It might have been reasonable to sit Paul down and say with the greatest respect that his salary is just beyond what the team can afford and out of line with the series. This is especially true if he wants to be part of a competitive team. The money is needed elsewhere.

He did stick around and has been a good spokesman for the series (always good for a quotable quote) and if nothing else the series doesn't need PT and his mom badmouthing them on the internet. This was not handled correctly.

[robot9000]

Yeah, I gotta say, supposedly having your mom post the info on a fan site is kinda unprofessional. One would hope that there are more effective ways to handle such interactions.

[Gnam]

The chances of PT getting a decent seat in cabs is close to zero. Plenty of formula car drivers there already, most of whom beat him regularly when they raced against each other.

oc
But in NASCAR Paul could "bash them good!" and still race on.



It might have been reasonable to sit Paul down and say with the greatest respect that his salary is just beyond what the team can afford and out of line with the series. This is especially true if he wants to be part of a competitive team. The money is needed elsewhere.
I can see the need to operate within a budget and spend money where it's most needed, but at the beginning of last year GF and KK cut back and had to deal with the negative consequences all season long.

[Fio1]

The truth is the series needs PT more then PT needs the series. But, when PT is out testing Busch cars it questions his loyalty. Remember what happened with AJ & Foresythe not too long ago....It's a catch 22. If PT never went looking at Nascar then his loyaly could not have been questioned. Him saying he's now 100% commited maybe down to the fact the he has no options in Stock car racing. On the other hand, Foresythe being an owner should also be conceren with the well being of the series. So, honor the guy's contract.

[jonovision_man]

But in NASCAR Paul could "bash them good!" and still race on.

If by "them" you mean the walls, then mission accomplished. :D Except for the "race on" part. ;)

I really hope he doesn't get pushed out, the series needs the colour he adds. I still say his rivalry with Bourdais was one of the best I've had the fortune to enjoy...

jono

[shaggy_socal]

As for this series ever getting back to the Big Time... it feels like that bridge is pretty much engulfed in flames now. How did we go from the triumphs of a few years ago to this???

Simple.

Greed.
Egos.
Money.

Oh My!

[robot9000]

I'd say right now PT is pretty important to the already converted. But to the casual fan, they don't know who he really is. Maybe more popular in Canada, but we aren't talking about an Unser here.

2 things come to mind for me. (IHO, YMMV)

1. - this is a FCR pr problem, not really a CC problem. Yeah, Crazy Gerry is a series owner, but its the team part that seems to be screwing this up.

2. CC has much bigger problems than the PT drama to contend with. They are continually marginalized. I can't tell you the number of race fans I know that have thrown up their hands in disgust over the split and how CC could not beat FTG. They have for the most part switched to F1 or ALMS. And sadly, if they watch any AOW at all, its IRL cause of the teams (Penske, Fatassie, Honda Green). They all pulled for CC, but are tired of being disappointed year after year with lousy schedules, unstable teams and 'Wheres Champcar" tv. PT could is the least of CC's problems right now....

[Wabbit]

2. CC has much bigger problems than the PT drama to contend with. They are continually marginalized. I can't tell you the number of race fans I know that have thrown up their hands in disgust over the split and how CC could not beat FTG. They have for the most part switched to F1 or ALMS. And sadly, if they watch any AOW at all, its IRL cause of the teams (Penske, Fatassie, Honda Green). They all pulled for CC, but are tired of being disappointed year after year with lousy schedules, unstable teams and 'Wheres Champcar" tv. PT could is the least of CC's problems right now....

Pretty much what I was thinking this morning.

I got a survey from CCIC yesterday asking if I would tell friends about ChampCar, my response, 0. What's there to watch anymore? Who's driving for who next year? What teams are going to be left next year? How many drivers are going to rotate through lineups? How many races are going to be canceled? Are there going to be more then 10 cars?

Anyone remember when Silly Season meant something? Last time I looked, silly season is now the entire year.

[Jag_Warrior]

Yeah, I gotta say, supposedly having your mom post the info on a fan site is kinda unprofessional. One would hope that there are more effective ways to handle such interactions.

I guess that was the tit for the tat of (supposedly) receiving the now infamous email from "Nemick"... and not having phone calls returned from Gerry Forsythe.

From top to bottom, the lack of planning, execution and professionalism, that is becoming apparent, pretty well explains the lack of stability and sponsors. :shakehead

[NismoZ]

Sorry but I think any team problem becomes a CC problem simply because of the low team/car/driver count. One need look no further than THE top team losing a long time top mgr. guy to a competitor and not appearing even close to naming a new driver to replace the champ. Problems in many areas, all serious.

[GLenz]

Miller chimes in. Some interesting tid-bits.
http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/42051/

[NismoZ]

Very sensible conclusions but I can't imagine Carl Haas signing Paul Tracy to anything, including jack man during pit stops.

[TKGAngel]

Wasn't part of Tracy's problems at NH that he didn't get along with Andretti?

I can't see PT going IRL'ing. He's been too much of a pro-Champcar person to go to that league. There's way too many quotes that could be dug up and thrown in his face if he were to leave.

But what I can see are meltdowns at other places over this column.

[Gnam]

At 39 (next week), PT is on the downhill run of a checkered career that includes 31 victories, 15 brain fades while leading, one championship, miles of dazzling passes, several altercations and 17 years of brutally honest quotes.
Can anyone name all 15 brain fades while leading?

I remember Denver 2005 when he clipped the inside wall and crashed into the opposite side. Then ran across the track to get back to his motorhome.

[robot9000]

I think Miller forgot a Zero on that brain fade stat :laugh:

[NismoZ]

He did say "while leading." Adding that zero probably makes it closer to the actual total.;) ...hate to lose him, though. Kinda like Leave It To Beaver without Eddie Haskall.

[Spicoli]

Wasn't part of Tracy's problems at NH that he didn't get along with Andretti?

I can't see PT going IRL'ing. He's been too much of a pro-Champcar person to go to that league. There's way too many quotes that could be dug up and thrown in his face if he were to leave.

But what I can see are meltdowns at other places over this column.

PT would, just like all the other guys, ffollow the money. And FTG would make it happen, just for the press. Remember, this is the same idiot who hired Gene :tongue: Simmons to market his league/series. And why would PT GAF about his old quotes. What most people don't get - is that he just doesn't care.

I just watched a special on RUSH about Bode Miller, and what his philosophy is on ski racing for a living. Paraphrasing: "I race to win every time. 2nd place doesn't mean anything to me. And I live the life of a professional skier. What do you do for a living?"

To me, that is the best thing about PT. His attitude. Win or go home. but all the while, you are doing something you love to do, and that 50 million other guys WISH they could do for a living.

:thumbup:

[Racing Truth]

Miller chimes in. Some interesting tid-bits.
http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/42051/

You know, the conclusion has been debated at Dolan's at length, and it IS controversial. On the one hand, PT is not the PT of a few yrs. ago. Furthermore, haven't we survived a lot of **** over the yrs.? Why should this finally end it?

Still, PT's the main name in CC (Young Rahal has to do something first) at this point, the one we all recognize. And, his absence would blow up the Canadian races, to some extent.

So, is it fatal?

[Insomniac]

You know, the conclusion has been debated at Dolan's at length, and it IS controversial. On the one hand, PT is not the PT of a few yrs. ago. Furthermore, haven't we survived a lot of **** over the yrs.? Why should this finally end it?

Still, PT's the main name in CC (Young Rahal has to do something first) at this point, the one we all recognize. And, his absence would blow up the Canadian races, to some extent.

So, is it fatal?

It certainly won't help the series grow. They can keep CC running on their dime as long as they want.

[JT265]

You know, the conclusion has been debated at Dolan's at length, and it IS controversial. On the one hand, PT is not the PT of a few yrs. ago. Furthermore, haven't we survived a lot of **** over the yrs.? Why should this finally end it?

Still, PT's the main name in CC (Young Rahal has to do something first) at this point, the one we all recognize. And, his absence would blow up the Canadian races, to some extent.

So, is it fatal?

I honestly don't know. PT ain't gonna drive for another 20 years, but the way this thing is playing out underscores the general bush direction it's been heading in the last year or so. There will/would be a marked decrease in ticket sales for Toronto, I can't speak for Edmonton or Tremblant.

Without some driver stability, how do you market the series?
Should they stay on this tack, they need to hook up with Mickey D, 'cause the event programs are gonna read like a prize in a Happy Meal bag.




"Come to Long Beach and marvel at the DP01 piloted by <insert prize-winners name here>!!!!"

[Rogue Leader]

HUGE mistake... Tagliani is gone next year, so to lose PT too, for a series that used to have a huge canadian and mexican presence, there will be NOTHING, and frankly the canadians and mexicans were the only ones watching because as you can see noone here gives a damn.

I wonder if they will sell the DP01's to skip barber so they can use them for the next Skip Barber Pro Series....

[Racing Truth]

It certainly won't help the series grow. They can keep CC running on their dime as long as they want.

Ultimately, that's probably the right answer, but you have to ask yourself, at some point, "What's the point?"

CC COULD and likely would go on w/o PT, but I think we've almost reached the point of "why bother?"

[Insomniac]

Ultimately, that's probably the right answer, but you have to ask yourself, at some point, "What's the point?"

CC COULD and likely would go on w/o PT, but I think we've almost reached the point of "why bother?"

I guess the answer is they haven't run out of ideas to save CC (good or bad).

[Racing Truth]

I guess the answer is they haven't run out of ideas to save CC (good or bad).

Ideas or $$$$$$$$$?

[Insomniac]

Ideas or $$$$$$$$$?

I'd find it hard to believe they have no desire to make money with CC. I don't see them propping it up for fun, they really think they can build it into a profitable business. If they keep the doors open, I think they still have ideas for how to make it work. I don't think there is a shortage of money.

[Racing Truth]

Oreo "dreaming" about PT. (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=5&columnist=oreovicz_john&id=3158327)

Creative piece, I must say. Best paragraph:


"That's the strangest part," he said. "The last thing I remember was watching a racing news program where they are reporting on the 'Tracy to the IRL' story. Suddenly, that reporter, Robin Miller, started going crazy. He was shouting expletives at everybody and they finally had to send a fleet of security guys in to drag him off the set. He kept screaming, 'It's over! It's over!'"

:rofl: :rofl: BTW: The reaction at FantasyLand is, um, priceless. I wonder how some of them have survived in the gene pool this long.

[G.]

Resolved, with no details.

PT's mom (http://www.champcarfanatics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1064033&postcount=488)

[stroker]

What, Unka Ger finally woke up?

[Insomniac]

Is PT's mom Champ Car's Mama McNabb?

[CART License]

The news flash I needed to hear today, Thank You

In everyone's life, at some time, our inner fire goes out. It is then burst into flame by an encounter with another human being. We should all be thankful for those people who rekindle the inner spirit.
-- Albert Schweitzer

[formulaben]

Resolved, with no details.

PT's mom (http://www.champcarfanatics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1064033&postcount=488)

Undoubtedly Paper moderated a mutually acceptable solution. :tony:

[Methanolandbrats]

Undoubtedly Paper moderated a mutually acceptable solution. :tony:

Make an excellent film........."The Mache Solution".:gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

What's most significant is this is yet another driver announcement and it is only 6 january. And it is a paid seat

[robot9000]

So is that what it's come to? That drivers Mom's are announcing driver placement and such :shakehead

I think there are local SCCA Formula Vee teams that control their press better than this, lol.

[SteveH]

CC should start issuing bumperstickers to driver's parents "My son drives in ChampCar" - its about that juvenile

[Insomniac]

So is that what it's come to? That drivers Mom's are announcing driver placement and such :shakehead

A little more official: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=5&id=3184766

[grungex]

More from Kirby:

Linky (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2008/the_way_it_is_no108.html)

[jonovision_man]

I went into the meeting believing that Jerry was going to renegotiate my contract to a very low amount or I would leave. And the conversation never even went that way. It was never brought up.

Hey PT - quit reading Robin Miller! :rofl:

jono

[robot9000]

Hey PT - quit reading Robin Miller! :rofl:

jono

Or, apparently, his Mom :\

[TravelGal]

I never quite got the drama about PTsmom. Someone started blabbing all over the net that PT was told via email that he had to renegotiate. She posted that he was ready to fulfill his contract but he wasn't so sure Forsythe was. That was it. Posters in LALALand already had PT out the door so she posted that. Period. She was trying to be nice to the henny pennies of the intardweb. If you know her, you know there was nothing hiding behind those words. He was ready to stay; he wasn't sure Forsythe wanted him, given the delicate way the whole thing was handled. That quote above says the same thing. End of story.

[JT265]

I never quite got the drama about PTsmom. Someone started blabbing all over the net that PT was told via email that he had to renegotiate. She posted that he was ready to fulfill his contract but he wasn't so sure Forsythe was. That was it. Posters in LALALand already had PT out the door so she posted that. Period. She was trying to be nice to the henny pennies of the intardweb. If you know her, you know there was nothing hiding behind those words. He was ready to stay; he wasn't sure Forsythe wanted him, given the delicate way the whole thing was handled. That quote above says the same thing. End of story.

Agreed. There seem to be a lot of "insiders" and "experts" at the 'official' unofficial CCWS board these days. Vivienne ain't one for melodrama.

[Spicoli]

Agreed. There seem to be a lot of "insiders" and "experts" at the 'official' unofficial CCWS board these days. Vivienne ain't one for melodrama.

fer Chrissakes JT, speaketh the trutheth. :laugh:

[Andrew Longman]

Agreed. There seem to be a lot of "insiders" and "experts" at the 'official' unofficial CCWS board these days. Vivienne ain't one for melodrama.

Well, she did also say PT was upset.

And she did get thrown off of 7G because she wouldn't moderate her language in a chat rant.

But yes, a lot of hyperventilating by many posers about stuff they know nothing about.

[robot9000]

I dunno, CC and some teams seem to be leaky ships. If you believe certain posters at certain forums, they call the teams or email the various prinicpals all the time. I'm not saying that isn't true, in fact, it seems quite the contrary.

My problem is how totally, um....I don't know....amateurish, I guess, that is.

I get the part about being nice to fans and all. But SUPPOSEDLY they are all in this to run their various busniesses. KK, GF, PG, whoever would/should be (one would hope) up to their elbows working on sponsors, races and other stuff that is vitally important. Not exchanging gossipy **** chat with anyone that gets their email account. Same with the teams. Don't they have more important things to work on than the gossip machine?

I just don't get it. I could be way wrong here, but I gotta believe that if you called any moderately successful racing team in any other series and started asking all the stuff about drivers and sponsors that supposedly gets discussed so freely with CC and some of their teams, you would get a polite "Thank you for your interest, buh bye" or at best referred to some PR wonk who would take your name and number in order to immediately ignore you.

"Thank you, but we don't discuss internal business matters with the public" should be the order of the day.

PT's mom informing the masses via innerweb is just a symptom of some larger illness that seems to have infected Champcar. I'm not saying that she was right or wrong, just that that's not the way to run a railroad....

[Sean Malone]

I dunno, CC and some teams seem to be leaky ships. If you believe certain posters at certain forums, they call the teams or email the various prinicpals all the time. I'm not saying that isn't true, in fact, it seems quite the contrary.

My problem is how totally, um....I don't know....amateurish, I guess, that is.

I get the part about being nice to fans and all. But SUPPOSEDLY they are all in this to run their various busniesses. KK, GF, PG, whoever would/should be (one would hope) up to their elbows working on sponsors, races and other stuff that is vitally important. Not exchanging gossipy **** chat with anyone that gets their email account. Same with the teams. Don't they have more important things to work on than the gossip machine?

I just don't get it. I could be way wrong here, but I gotta believe that if you called any moderately successful racing team in any other series and started asking all the stuff about drivers and sponsors that supposedly gets discussed so freely with CC and some of their teams, you would get a polite "Thank you for your interest, buh bye" or at best referred to some PR wonk who would take your name and number in order to immediately ignore you.

"Thank you, but we don't discuss internal business matters with the public" should be the order of the day.

PT's mom informing the masses via innerweb is just a symptom of some larger illness that seems to have infected Champcar. I'm not saying that she was right or wrong, just that that's not the way to run a railroad....

Any team worth a hill of beans would have an IVR system. You would have to know someone's extension or direct # or even a cell # which I doubt 99% of the message board evangelists have. If they did you can bet there we would probably hear about restraining orders. :)

[FTG]

PT's mom informing the masses via innerweb is just a symptom of some larger illness that seems to have infected Champcar. I'm not saying that she was right or wrong, just that that's not the way to run a railroad....

Good point. She complains on the net, PT gets a phone call from Ganassi and Forsythe doesn't ask for a multi million dollar pay cut. If I could make a couple million dollars with two or three Internet posts, I wouldn't do it. It's just not professional.

[Sean Malone]

Good point. She complains on the net, PT gets a phone call from Ganassi and Forsythe doesn't ask for a multi million dollar pay cut. If I could make a couple million dollars with two or three Internet posts, I wouldn't do it. It's just not professional.

I'm 99.9% confident that Internet message boards are not guiding Forsythe's decisions. Gentilozi...the percentage drops.:)

[FTG]

I'm 99.9% confident that Internet message boards are not guiding Forsythe's decisions. Gentilozi...the percentage drops.:)

Why? Because you know more about PT's situation than his mother? Because you don't believe that Ganassi phoned PT? Because the Vice Chairman of a company like GM would never use the Internet to communicate directly with customers? Oops, scratch that last one. (http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/bob_lutz/)

[extramundane]

Why? Because you know more about PT's situation than his mother?

Everybody on a Certain Champcar Forum seems to, so maybe Sean does too. :gomer:


Because the Vice Chairman of a company like GM would never use the Internet to communicate directly with customers? Oops, scratch that last one. (http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/bob_lutz/)

A Bob Lutz blog comapres to the other situation just how? Other than GM being a niche company, accourse.

[G.]

If I could make a couple million dollars with two or three Internet posts, I wouldn't do it. It's just not professional.Are you KIDDING? Man, I would, in a heartbeat.

In fact, I'm working this Nigerian oil deal right now! I can't give you any details yet, but let's just say that the drinks are on me at RA this year!

:p

[robot9000]

Its not just phone calls. Its the who enchalada. Its Paper weasling his way into PG's inbox. Its people that claim to know stuff about teams. Not just stuff, but sponsor or driver biz related stuff. Stuff that no reasonable person would discuss with anyone outside the situation. Everyone from Paper to Walen to LisaS to a whole number of innerweb poster, who should have absolutly no reason have their nose in any of CC's or teams bidnez. I don't necessarily blaim them, its the teams and people that communicate with them that are at fault. If I ran a team, and found out someone, secratary, engineer, mechanic, whatever, was gossiping about what was going on within the team, they would be Gone Baby Gone.

Hey, we all want to 'know'. We all wanna hear the latest poop. I'm certaninly not above it. But Jeese Louise I'm (A) Not gonna go sucking up to anyone to get the scoop and (B) I'm not gonna yack about it. Especially on the innerwebs.

But ultimatly its the Teams and CC's responsibility to control this. Plus, look at all the CC on CC abuse that has come about because of it! I'm not sure CC can afford the divide their fan base any more than it already is.

If it was me, I'd be running my team/series like Fox Mulder - Trust No One. http://www.funwithmsn.com/msnsmileys/alien/alien.gif

[FTG]

When Alfred P. Sloan took the reins at General Motors, he had a clear vision of the company’s future: “a car for every purse and purpose." (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/gms-new-brand-strategy-chevy-uber-alles/)




A Bob Lutz blog comapres to the other situation just how? Other than GM being a niche company, accourse.

Because every marketer in the world is using the Internet to communicate with customers/prospects/influencers. The idea that PT and Champ Car shouldn't just because Spickly had a hissy fit at a certain forum is dumb.

[FTG]

Its not just phone calls. Its the who enchalada. Its Paper weasling his way into PG's inbox. Its people that claim to know stuff about teams. Not just stuff, but sponsor or driver biz related stuff. Stuff that no reasonable person would discuss with anyone outside the situation. Everyone from Paper to Walen to LisaS to a whole number of innerweb poster, who should have absolutly no reason have their nose in any of CC's or teams bidnez.

Good point. Why would you want people yacking about your product? There aren't any or NASCAR or F1 rumors on the net.

[Sean Malone]

Why? Because you know more about PT's situation than his mother? Because you don't believe that Ganassi phoned PT? Because the Vice Chairman of a company like GM would never use the Internet to communicate directly with customers? Oops, scratch that last one. (http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/bob_lutz/)

Has Forsythe come out and said "I changed my mind because Pauls mom got on an internet message board and caused such a stir I had no choice"?

Link please.

[Sean Malone]

Good point. Why would you want people yacking about your product? There aren't any or NASCAR or F1 rumors on the net.

They feel privileged because some team connected people post there and some of the folks have hard cards. In their mind they are the internet branch of Champ Car.

[extramundane]

Because every marketer in the world is using the Internet to communicate with customers/prospects/influencers. The idea that PT and Champ Car shouldn't just because Spickly had a hissy fit at a certain forum is dumb.

"Using the internet to communicate with customers/prospects/influencers" is one thing. Using a fan forum gadfly to post in vague, barely parseable doublespeak about who are "real fans" and who is "in trouble" is quite another.

If it's all about using the internet to communicate, then let Paul Gentilozzi start a blog.

[cameraman]

A blog is an ad using a different distribution method. It is still a one way form of communication. The writer has full control of the content. The communications that seem to be happening with various internet personalities are uncontrolled and totally unprofessional. You would be fired in a heartbeat from just about any corporation in America if you were caught feeding corporate info to internet forum posters. It, more than anything else these guys do, absolutely screams out the total lack of professionalism in the series.

[formulaben]

So does that mean Paper should be fired? :tony:

[Andrew Longman]

Many CEOs and top executives maintain blogs and respond to postings there. It is seen as an important, yet not fully understood, internal and external communication device.

What definitely doesn't work is to have the PR department write and maintain the blog. Visitors immediately see it as unauthentic. And executives can't always write well enough or understand the blogosphere well enough to be trusted to do it themselves.

But done well it can be very effective to communicate to customers, investors, employees and other stakeholders

Needless to say CC folks (or IRL with their paid internet posters) are far from doing it well.

[cameraman]

Many CEOs and top executives maintain blogs and respond to postings there. It is seen as an important, yet not fully understood, internal and external communication device.

But you can be sure that in-house council and/or the pr gnomes vet every single word before any of it hits the web.

[Spicoli]

So does that mean Paper should be fired? :tony:


From what? Making cabinets and having bad flashbacks? :tony:

[Andrew Longman]

But you can be sure that in-house council and/or the pr gnomes vet every single word before any of it hits the web.

Mmm, not so much. At first that's how they did it, but no one bothered to read it. The net savvy can smell inauthentic communication a byte away.

Really, this has become a necessary communication skill for CEOs, just like platform skills and TV/radio skills are. As it has shaken out, the list of CEOs and even corporations keeping blogs has grown but flattened mostly because they have not met the needs of their audience. Posts are too infrequent and too vanilla or unhelpful. (which is probably supports your point) But they are getting it.

More interestingly are the blogs that are in greatest use are unauthorized but accepted internal and external blogs in many organizations

This one was sent to me by a former client who thought I would be interested in it. It is a super geeky presentation (and very thought provoking if you can process it - I HIGHLY recommend it!!!) about the future of computing by Sun's chief futurist. He couldn't present it in person at their customer conference because his father died, so he posted it at a site many people in his community visit.

You can tell this is not "vetted"

http://www.crypticide.com/dropsafe/article/2193

[robot9000]

I dunno. I would just think there are about a bazillion things higher on the to-do list at Champcar HQ for all involved. :shrug:

Here's a wacky idea! Instead of using some cabinet maker from Florida to post Happy Thoughts on the innerweb (and alienating a good part of the fan base in the process) they could, like, hire a REAL PR firm.

Yeah, I know. Crazy.

[Methanolandbrats]

From what? Making cabinets and having bad flashbacks? :tony:
Now that was funny.....I spit beer on my clean sweatshirt. :D

[Sean Malone]

Mmm, not so much. At first that's how they did it, but no one bothered to read it. The net savvy can smell inauthentic communication a byte away.

Really, this has become a necessary communication skill for CEOs, just like platform skills and TV/radio skills are. As it has shaken out, the list of CEOs and even corporations keeping blogs has grown but flattened mostly because they have not met the needs of their audience. Posts are too infrequent and too vanilla or unhelpful. (which is probably supports your point) But they are getting it.

More interestingly are the blogs that are in greatest use are unauthorized but accepted internal and external blogs in many organizations

This one was sent to me by a former client who thought I would be interested in it. It is a super geeky presentation (and very thought provoking if you can process it - I HIGHLY recommend it!!!) about the future of computing by Sun's chief futurist. He couldn't present it in person at their customer conference because his father died, so he posted it at a site many people in his community visit.

You can tell this is not "vetted"

http://www.crypticide.com/dropsafe/article/2193

Now that I think about it...I've been following the development of computer and console video games since the '80's. It is very common for the developers (who are usually execs also for some of the old school dev houses) who not only make appearances at various message boards but also keep posted '.plan' files. Never have I read any of the video dev fan crowd (usually young geeks who never touched a girl) moan about the postings of dev/execs being unprofessional. It has always been so therefore it will always be.

Some of these guys like John Carmack (idSoftware) and Mark Rein (Epic) are superstars in the genre equivalent to a Shuey or Mario A. Imagine the stir it would make on CCF if Mario started posting?
I remember 15 years ago reading Carmack .plan on an old BBS. I think he still has it up somewhere.

The problem is the attitude that CCF takes because of their insider postings and proclaimed 'connected' members. Insiders post here too, we're just adult enough not to get all freaked out about it.

OffCamber = The 'adult swim' of the racing message boards. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finger_protocol

[Spicoli]

CCF = talk about racing
OC = goes racing (and drinking) :D

[JT265]

CCF = talk about racing
OC = goes racing (and drinking) :D

And barfs. You forgot barfs. :yuck: :laugh:

[G.]

Geebus, guys and gals! The issue isn't so much the MODE of communications., it's the PERSONALITIES! The people involved arf it up for MOST intelligent peeps.








I don't think that nrc and Racegrrl want us to expand on the people portion too much...

[Insomniac]

There's nothing wrong with using the Internet/blogs/forums if you are an executive. I think it's the airing of dirty laundry that is the problem. The blogs/.plans you talk about are generally thoughts on what the company is doing/working on or information about the industry. Would we mind if KK had a blog and talked about how CC is working with Bridgestone to have more aggressive tires. Or if he honestly talked about sponsorship problems in Champ Car? I don't think so. But if he started to talk about how this promoter did this and so-and-so did that, many of us would be bothered that he's wasting his time on things like that.

[Spicoli]

There's nothing wrong with using the Internet/blogs/forums if you are an executive. I think it's the airing of dirty laundry that is the problem. The blogs/.plans you talk about are generally thoughts on what the company is doing/working on or information about the industry. Would we mind if KK had a blog and talked about how CC is working with Bridgestone to have more aggressive tires. Or if he honestly talked about sponsorship problems in Champ Car? I don't think so. But if he started to talk about how this promoter did this and so-and-so did that, many of us would be bothered that he's wasting his time on things like that.

its a reflection of how fuggered up everything is at the moment.

Seriously - when is the last time we had a new poster here that "just went to a race and became a fervent fan"? Uh, 1999? :D Anyway, you get my point. We have more posts here oin Off Topic than anything CCWS related lately, and we all high five when a shoe in like Serbia gets signed, woooHoooooo!!! The state of affairs in CCWs is pretty sad right now. BUT, its OUR series, and we have time and heart invested in it. It's like you formerly cute sister got fat and everyone makes fun of her now. Deep down, we all know she can get better, shed the pounds, etc. But will she?


No matter what, she's still our sister. :rofl:


edit: And they still have the Snortin moron, FTG. Which makes our series suck less than theirs.

[Tony George]

its a reflection of how fuggered up everything is at the moment.

Seriously - when is the last time we had a new poster here that "just went to a race and became a fervent fan"? Uh, 1999? :D Anyway, you get my point. We have more posts here oin Off Topic than anything CCWS related lately, and we all high five when a shoe in like Serbia gets signed, woooHoooooo!!! The state of affairs in CCWs is pretty sad right now. BUT, its OUR series, and we have time and heart invested in it. It's like you formerly cute sister got fat and everyone makes fun of her now. Deep down, we all know she can get better, shed the pounds, etc. But will she?


No matter what, she's still our sister. :rofl:


edit: And they still have the Snortin moron, FTG. Which makes our series suck less than theirs.

Very well put. Even gomers should be able to understand your logic. :thumbup:

[Insomniac]

its a reflection of how fuggered up everything is at the moment.

Seriously - when is the last time we had a new poster here that "just went to a race and became a fervent fan"? Uh, 1999? :D Anyway, you get my point. We have more posts here oin Off Topic than anything CCWS related lately, and we all high five when a shoe in like Serbia gets signed, woooHoooooo!!! The state of affairs in CCWs is pretty sad right now. BUT, its OUR series, and we have time and heart invested in it. It's like you formerly cute sister got fat and everyone makes fun of her now. Deep down, we all know she can get better, shed the pounds, etc. But will she?


No matter what, she's still our sister. :rofl:


edit: And they still have the Snortin moron, FTG. Which makes our series suck less than theirs.

I think part of the lack of inactivity in the CC forum vs. OT is just the lack of goings on. There simply isn't much to talk about. We're waiting to see who will be driving. We already know what they will be driving is the same as last year.

Also, interesting point. Did anyone here become a fan of Champ Car after 2000?

[Methanolandbrats]

its a reflection of how fuggered up everything is at the moment.

Seriously - when is the last time we had a new poster here that "just went to a race and became a fervent fan"? Uh, 1999? :D Anyway, you get my point. We have more posts here oin Off Topic than anything CCWS related lately, and we all high five when a shoe in like Serbia gets signed, woooHoooooo!!! The state of affairs in CCWs is pretty sad right now. BUT, its OUR series, and we have time and heart invested in it. It's like you formerly cute sister got fat and everyone makes fun of her now. Deep down, we all know she can get better, shed the pounds, etc. But will she?


No matter what, she's still our sister. :rofl:


edit: And they still have the Snortin moron, FTG. Which makes our series suck less than theirs.

Quite eloquent..........here's a book you might enjoy

http://www.munrocrafts.com/book8.JPG

:D :ducks and runs:

[JT265]

Very well put. Even gomers should be able to understand your logic. :thumbup:

If they're not allowed to move their lips when they read it they won't.