The Mitchell Report is Coming, Will Your Team's Players Be in It?

[Insomniac]

I'm not worried, George Mitchell is the Director of the Red Sox Front Office. ;)

[Andrew Longman]

Yes.

Clemens name leaked out this morning. Not at all surprised.

Most Yankees fans don't consider him a real Yankee though. He's a money pitcher. Mercenary. Or a Red Sock. :)

Giambi was one of two players to actually agree to an interview

Sheffield is expected, but he was never a real Yankee either. Mercenary

I've heard one mention of Pettitte this morning which would be a blow, but he's been rumored for a while because of his closeness to Clemens and they share a trainer.

Now it Jeter, Bernie, Paulie, Mariano, Posada and a handful of others it will be a real blow.

ARod would be major blow to all of MLB because he is seen as the anti-Bonds and works so hard on his squeaky clean image.

[Insomniac]

Clemens is a traitor, not a Red Sox!

[Sean O'Gorman]

Indians will have Betancourt and Bryd, no new news there.

[TKGAngel]

I've heard one mention of Pettitte this morning which would be a blow, but he's been rumored for a while because of his closeness to Clemens and they share a trainer.

ESPN's reporting both Pettitte and Clemens, but that also several more Yankees will be on the list. The source has disclosed that its going to be a rough day in the Bronx.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Rumored list that Stu e-mailed me this morning:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, WilCordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, JeremyGiambi,Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., DarrenHolmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian RobertsJuan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Te jada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

[Insomniac]

I think that's the list WNBC.com posted but later pulled because MLB disputes the accuracy.

Jason Varitek is a big hit to the Red Sox if he's on it.

[dando]

Rumored list that Stu e-mailed me this morning:

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, WilCordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, JeremyGiambi,Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., DarrenHolmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian RobertsJuan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Te jada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood

None of these names surprise me, and about half of them were previously known, and a number of them are @zzholes anyway. Now if Cal Ripken Jr.'s name appeared on this list, I would be shocked and dismayed.

-Kevin

[Sean O'Gorman]

Didn't Len Dykstra retire in like 1987?

[cameraman]

Didn't Len Dykstra retire in like 1987?
More like 1996.

[IlliniRacer]

Rich Garces??? Say it so El Gaupo!!!!

[IlliniRacer]

More like 1996.

and Darryl Kile died in 2002

[TKGAngel]

And Ken Caminiti's deceased as well.

[chop456]

Prior and Wood? :saywhat: Mike Cameron? :saywhat: :saywhat:

[G.]

Prior and Wood? :saywhat: Mike Cameron? :saywhat: :saywhat:
Don't sweat it: none of the Cubs are good enough to be doing 'roids.:)

[IlliniRacer]

Link to the full report.

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

List is a lot different that what was leaked.


:( I've played against and with Matt Herges since we were both 10 yrs old. Sucks to see his name. :shakehead

[Insomniac]

Phew. I'm glad the Red Sox captain isn't in the report.

[Dr. Corkski]

:( I've played against and with Matt Herges since we were both 10 yrs old. Sucks to see his name. :shakeheadHe must have missed the whole "performance enhancing" part. :laugh:

[Andrew Longman]

Disappointing but not surprising list.

A couple of meaningful things come from this:

1) The names aren't that surprising but they all come one way or another from Rodomsky and Rodomsky is/was not the only steroid supplier in the sport. The report refers to many times when drugs came from unknown sources. There are many, many other players out there who are just lucky enough to not be connected to Rodomsky.

2) Clemens is toast. He was 213-118 and 40-39 his last few years in Boston before he started taking steroids in Toronto. His career would have been over yearsago (and before three of his Cy Young awards) if not for the juice. Hall of Fame, I don't think so. Enjoy your money Roger and I hope you teach your kid a different lesson. Of course there is no paper trail on where he got his juice and everything on him is from McNamee. Clemens might just call him a liar

3) Other than Clemmens, Pettitte probably takes the next biggest hit because a) he's a Yankee and b) he has that good guy, Christian image. I expect he decided not to retire because he wanted a shot to redeem his reputation.

[Insomniac]

New list from the CBS 2 in Chicago:


Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Marvin Benard
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Exavier "Nook" Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Mark McGwire
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

[Methanolandbrats]

Jim Rome said The Rocket "seemed to age in reverse". :laugh:

[Andrew Longman]

Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Marvin Benard
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Exavier "Nook" Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Mark McGwire
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun

I may have missed some but all spent time as Yankees. (List is missing Stanton too) I haven't read the accusations on all of them but some are like Velardi and accused of taking steroids at the end of his career at Oakland to try to extend it another year.

One challenge for Hank Steinbrenner is to show he cares more about steroids than his dad did.

[Andrew Longman]

Just read the write up on Pettite. Claim is he asked McNamee for HGH to help speed rocovery from an elbow injury. That's actually a legit (but against the rules) use of HGH. If you blew out your knee, your doctor might prescribe it. Unless you are a pro-athlete.

[coolhand]

The official list is a bunch of no names, I liked the rumored one better.

Seriously, in the late 90s I was a huge baseball fan and I don't recognize half those guys.

[cameraman]

I can't believe you are not familiar with Bart Miadich's career:rolleyes:

[dando]

The official list is a bunch of no names, I liked the rumored one better.

Seriously, in the late 90s I was a huge baseball fan and I don't recognize half those guys.

Not much of a fan then. < 12 that I don't recognize. Many of them may not be major names, but I can recall most of them playing.

-Kevin

[dando]

Just read the write up on Pettite. Claim is he asked McNamee for HGH to help speed rocovery from an elbow injury. That's actually a legit (but against the rules) use of HGH. If you blew out your knee, your doctor might prescribe it. Unless you are a pro-athlete.

I suspect that's the case with a number of these players. The same was true with Byrd, and I suspect with my former HS mate Kent Mercker.

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Selig is saying now that he might punish some or all of the players listed, despite Mitchell's recommendation to the contrary.

Idiot

Yes there are going to be fans that want this or that guys head, but Mitchell's most important point in the report that the past is the past, there is blame all around, and the reasons for that is rooted in mutual mistrust and too little collective concern for the game. (sound familiar Indy car fans?).

The report needs to hold a mirror up to both sides and say get a freakin grip and agree that this is an issue bigger than the sport itself and that anything necessary to move the drugs out of the game must be done.

Even hinting that he will punish players in the report will undermine that, is irrelevant and a distraction from the greater mission.

[dando]

Selig is saying now that he might punish some or all of the players listed, despite Mitchell's recommendation to the contrary.

Idiot

Yes there are going to be fans that want this or that guys head, but Mitchell's most important point in the report that the past is the past, there is blame all around, and the reasons for that is rooted in mutual mistrust and too little collective concern for the game. (sound familiar Indy car fans?).

The report needs to hold a mirror up to both sides and say get a freakin grip and agree that this is an issue bigger than the sport itself and that anything necessary to move the drugs out of the game must be done.

Even hinting that he will punish players in the report will undermine that, is irrelevant and a distraction from the greater mission.

Dats we refer to him as Bud Light or Bud 'Molehill' Selig. :gomer: Roger Cossack jumped all over that, saying that Selig was in effect picking a fight with the union. Smooth move, Bud. :shakehead

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Just read the write up on Pettite. Claim is he asked McNamee for HGH to help speed rocovery from an elbow injury. That's actually a legit (but against the rules) use of HGH. If you blew out your knee, your doctor might prescribe it. Unless you are a pro-athlete.

While athletes use it for that (NOTE: This includes Rodney Harrison) it is not an approved use in the United States. If any of us blow out a knee, our doctor would never prescribe HGH. It's cheating and you can really never know when the use goes from treatment/recovery to "performance enhancing". These guys have prolonged their careers to continue to make $millions with guaranteed contracts.

[Sean O'Gorman]

The official list is a bunch of no names, I liked the rumored one better.

Same here, it contained way more players I dislike.

[coolhand]

I am confused now
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AryTyToBADJhT7BppfmwbnY5nYcB?slug=ys-mitchellnames121307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[TravelGal]

Even hinting that he will punish players in the report will undermine that, is irrelevant and a distraction from the greater mission.

But that's the idea.

[IlliniRacer]

Not much of a fan then. < 12 that I don't recognize. Many of them may not be major names, but I can recall most of them playing.

-Kevin

Most of these guys probably used PEDs to get to the Major Leagues. Herges didn't make it to the Show until he was 29. At some point you will do anything just to make. Still stupid though.:shakehead

[Andrew Longman]

While athletes use it for that (NOTE: This includes Rodney Harrison) it is not an approved use in the United States. If any of us blow out a knee, our doctor would never prescribe HGH.

You may be right but I listened to a radio interview a few months back that said otherwise. It said it is not common, but doctors sometimes do it (Doctors prescribe medicines for non-approved uses all the time. The pharmas even get in trouble all the time promoting them to do it. The doctors are supposed to be smart enough to make the call).

But your point is it is against MLB rules in any case and in that you are correct.

I'm only saying in Pettites case he wanted to get back to help his team. In Clemens case he wanted to turn around an extinguishing career.

[Insomniac]

Most of these guys probably used PEDs to get to the Major Leagues. Herges didn't make it to the Show until he was 29. At some point you will do anything just to make. Still stupid though.:shakehead

It doesn't seem stupid given the reward of a guaranteed contract. It seems more unfair than anything because the people who played by the rules let their careers run their course without help when they could've maybe gotten one more contract.

Watching some of the coverage on ESPN yesterday was a little weird. Seeing people talk about how do you know if steroids contributed to X wins for Clemens. How do you take wins away when you don't know? You can't punish players. The proof is flimsy at best...

We've discussed this before in the Floyd Landis thread, but so many people are conditioned to give people a pass on this stuff. If it really is a problem for kids (and it seems to really be), this shouldn't be justifiable.

[Insomniac]

You may be right but I listened to a radio interview a few months back that said otherwise. It said it is not common, but doctors sometimes do it (Doctors prescribe medicines for non-approved uses all the time. The pharmas even get in trouble all the time promoting them to do it. The doctors are supposed to be smart enough to make the call).

You're right, doctor's do sometimes prescribe things for unapproved uses. I'm not sure, but I guess the primary reason it is not common is probably side effects. It would help you rehab faster, but at what expense?

[dando]

Interesting listener comment I saw on Mike & Mike earlier today...where are all the Red Sox (Mitchell has ties to the Red Sox)? ;)

The more I think about this, the more I think this report nailed about one-half, maybe less, of the guys involved with 'roids. Also, Bud Light is going to have a hell of a time getting any suspensions to stick with the flimsy evidence Mitch, et al. compiled. Perhaps that's one reason Mitchell advised to move ahead and not take action against the current players on the list.

-Kevin

[chop456]

^ Mo Vaughn?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Current Red Sox player?

[Insomniac]

Interesting listener comment I saw on Mike & Mike earlier today...where are all the Red Sox (Mitchell has ties to the Red Sox)? ;)

The more I think about this, the more I think this report nailed about one-half, maybe less, of the guys involved with 'roids. Also, Bud Light is going to have a hell of a time getting any suspensions to stick with the flimsy evidence Mitch, et al. compiled. Perhaps that's one reason Mitchell advised to move ahead and not take action against the current players on the list.

-Kevin

I think it's even less. The guy who identified the most players live in NY and had contact with a lot of NY players.

There were some former Red Sox players plus some interesting e-mails from the Red Sox front office.

A good summary of the Red Sox links:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/wires/12/13/2010.ap.bba.mitchell.report.red.sox.0762/

It's evident that GMs know and suspect players of doing this, but just turn a blind eye.

It's dumb that common sense can't be applied. I mean, is anything proof enough? A picture of the needle going in? (No idea what is in it.) Steroids in your possession? (No proof you used it.) Nothing is proof enough. MLB banned steroids in the early 90s, but then didn't test for it. How would someone get suspended? Is there any level of proof that is acceptable? IMO, If you bought it, you're guilty. If it's a he said, he said, have an arbitrator listen to both sides and make a ruling. Fact of the matter is, every player named was given an opportunity to set the record straight and none did. (Giambi was forced to talk to them.)

[Insomniac]

Current Red Sox player?

None now. Only two guys were with them in 2007. Gagne and Donnelly.

[Insomniac]

Ohh, to add to the conspiracy theories, Nomar Garciaparra, Julain Tavarez and Jason Varitek were on the list leaked to WNBC yesterday which they said was received from 2 separate sources who had seen the report.

Varitek would be a pretty big hit to Red Sox Nation. Nomar, while no longer a Red Sox would've been a big surprise and disappointment.

[eiregosod]

Woohoo!! I made the team :D



not another Senator George Mitchell report :gomer:

needs more Dehaunt system of picking drug abusing players :tony:

[Andrew Longman]

A couple of filter to view the list...

Only three sources "flipped" for the investigation and it is somewhat chance they are NY centered. I don't for a second think that the lack of Bosox on the list means anything other than who Mitchell managed to get to talk.

There have to be many more suppliers, perhaps several in every clubhouse if only three suppliers turned up 70 some names in all 30 teams.

In a mild meager defense of the Yankees, they are likely to have more on the list because a) they had NY sources and no other, and b) the Yankees are more active on the trade/free agent market that others because the have more money. Many of the Yanks on the list were pegged before and perhaps mostly after they were Yanks

[RHR_Fan]

I just about pissed myself laughing when I saw Derrick Turnbow on that list. :rofl: On a serious note it seems like after he got caught he stopped doing whatever he did.

~Nicole

[Tim]

Brewers represent with 7 former/currnet players!

Derrick Turnbow
Eric Gagne
Gary Sheffield
Steve Woodard
Fernando Vina
Darren Holmes
David Bell

[Sean O'Gorman]

Brewers represent with 7 former/currnet players!

Derrick Turnbow
Eric Gagne
Gary Sheffield
Steve Woodard
Fernando Vina
Darren Holmes
David Bell

Indians have twice that, try and keep up. :gomer:

[Insomniac]

"If what I did was an error in judgment on my part, I apologize," Pettitte said Saturday in a statement released by his agent. "I accept responsibility for those two days."

I guess he's not sure if it was poor judgement. ;)

[cameraman]

Oh my, it is really going to hit the fan now...


Roger Clemens' former trainer has given physical evidence to federal investigators that will confirm the pitcher used performance-enhancing drugs, the trainer's attorneys said today.

The New York Daily News, in a report on its website, said it was told by an anonymous source that the evidence includes vials with traces of steroids and human growth hormone, blood-stained syringes and gauze pads that may contain the seven-time Cy Young Award winner's DNA.

The trainer, Brian McNamee, kept the evidence from the 2000 and 2001 seasons out of fear Clemens would deny use of the drugs if the issue was ever investigated, the Daily News reported.

McNamee attorney Richard Emery told the Los Angeles Times this afternoon that the one-time strength and conditioning coach of the Toronto Blue Jays and New York Yankees preserved the evidence because, as "a former police officer," he knew it was important to do so.

[Insomniac]

Oh my, it is really going to hit the fan now...

:eek: Wow. Holy crap. :eek:

[Sean O'Gorman]

And not bring it up until now? Ugh.

[Andrew Longman]

The trainer, Brian McNamee, kept the evidence from the 2000 and 2001 seasons out of fear Clemens would deny use of the drugs if the issue was ever investigated, the Daily News reported.

This is a strange and sad tale.

I don't know if it has been reported in the press outside NY but McNamee has a very sick kid with a cronic illness, no health insurance and no means of making a living. He was loyal and owed his whole career to Clemens. He is desparate and still conflicted about his relationship with Clemens. Ratting him out only kept him out of prison. It didn't solve his other problems.

That this stuff is only now turning up is odd. Why didn't he give it to the Mitchell group? My take is he was still trying to do no more damage the Clemens than he was forced to and hoping in the end Roger would do the right thing and either come clean or at least quietly pay for his son's medical expenses.

Now that Clemens has said under oath that he is a liar, he pulled trump which Clemens surely never thought he had.

If he is to be believed McNemee never pushed the stuff on his clients and even tried to steer them away but once it was clear they were determined to do it, tried to serve them by at least doing it intelligently and with safe sources

[Insomniac]

This is a strange and sad tale.

I don't know if it has been reported in the press outside NY but McNamee has a very sick kid with a cronic illness, no health insurance and no means of making a living. He was loyal and owed his whole career to Clemens. He is desparate and still conflicted about his relationship with Clemens. Ratting him out only kept him out of prison. It didn't solve his other problems.

That this stuff is only now turning up is odd. Why didn't he give it to the Mitchell group? My take is he was still trying to do no more damage the Clemens than he was forced to and hoping in the end Roger would do the right thing and either come clean or at least quietly pay for his son's medical expenses.

Now that Clemens has said under oath that he is a liar, he pulled trump which Clemens surely never thought he had.

If he is to be believed McNemee never pushed the stuff on his clients and even tried to steer them away but once it was clear they were determined to do it, tried to serve them by at least doing it intelligently and with safe sources

The whole world knows about his son. Remember Roger called him under the guise that he wanted to see how his son was doing and then recorded the entire conversation for us all to hear?

Of course, no one can prove anything with that evidence. Clemens' attorneys will simply claim he manufactued the evidence.

[chop456]

Beantown no more.

"Home of the Cheater".

Might have to clear it with Burger King, though.

[Insomniac]

Beantown no more.

"Home of the Cheater".

Might have to clear it with Burger King, though.

Clemens started after leaving Boston. :p

[chop456]

Clemens started after leaving Boston. :p

In order to tie it in neatly with the current group of Boston cheaters, I say it was before he left Boston. :p

[Andrew Longman]

Uh oh, now Debbie Clemmens too

http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-baseup0209.artfeb09,0,4794689.story

This is the shot she did it for

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/432482257_99ae2caf91.jpg

[dando]

Uh oh, now Debbie Clemmens too

http://www.courant.com/sports/baseball/hc-baseup0209.artfeb09,0,4794689.story

This is the shot she did it for

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/432482257_99ae2caf91.jpg

:eek:

It's good to be The Rocket.

If it wasn't already, this thing is getting NASTY. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

:eek:

It's good to be The Rocket.

If it wasn't already, this thing is getting NASTY. :saywhat:

-Kevin

Dunno. Rocket seems to be getting very bad advice. Simply calling McNamee a scumbag liar will only go so far, especially when the DNA tests come back. That would end this fast for Roger.

Thinking about it, unless McNamee knows there is NO DNA on those items, he has to know that the DNA there is Roger's. Giving fabricated evidence to the Feds would be collosally stupid and inconsistent with a guy who has done everything to stay out of jail.

BTW, does it look to anyone else that Debbie has had some performance enhancing help on those frontloaders? ;)

[dando]

Dunno. Rocket seems to be getting very bad advice. Simply calling McNamee a scumbag liar will only go so far, especially when the DNA tests come back. That would end this fast for Roger.

Thinking about it, unless McNamee knows there is NO DNA on those items, he has to know that the DNA there is Roger's. Giving fabricated evidence to the Feds would be collosally stupid and inconsistent with a guy who has done everything to stay out of jail.

BTW, does it look to anyone else that Debbie has had some performance enhancing help on those frontloaders? ;)

I was just referring to the Mrs. Rocket. :) And yes, them are non-standard airbags. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :D

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Dunno. Rocket seems to be getting very bad advice. Simply calling McNamee a scumbag liar will only go so far, especially when the DNA tests come back. That would end this fast for Roger.

Thinking about it, unless McNamee knows there is NO DNA on those items, he has to know that the DNA there is Roger's. Giving fabricated evidence to the Feds would be collosally stupid and inconsistent with a guy who has done everything to stay out of jail.

BTW, does it look to anyone else that Debbie has had some performance enhancing help on those frontloaders? ;)

Clemens has dug in. He is never going to admit steroid use. They will claim it is all falsified. There is so much reasonable doubt in that evidence. Just the chain of custody questions alone. If he did steroids, he has already perjured himself. Now, whether a jury would believe him would be another story. I obviously don't because:

1. The stats corroborate the timeline.
2. He sat quietly too long.
3. No one else implicated by McNamee claimed he was lying.
4. The phone call that he thinks made him look good didn't have him once ask McNamee why he lied and made up the story and McNamee offered to go to jail for him.
5. McNamee shared the evidence after he was sued.

[cameraman]

Oh my Clemens is an idiot. Now he has Congress out to fry his ass...


A Congressional committee has asked federal law enforcement authorities to investigate whether Roger Clemens made false statements under oath about his use of performance-enhancing drugs.

[Insomniac]

Oh my Clemens is an idiot. Now he has Congress out to fry his ass...

All the details are here (http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20080227135441.pdf).