All Is Right At Indy [Archive]

DaveL

05-11-03, 07:52 PM

Yep, the world is in order once more. The megabuck teams with their foreign road racers powered by leased engines dominate the front part of the grid, and the Menards and Hemelgarns and back to being the insignificant backmarkers they once were. We have Japanese road racers in cars at the behest of the mfgs who have never run at Indy before (and never would have gave it a thought 5 years ago either) make qualifiying for the race as simple as just driving around for four laps. AJ is back to being an uncompetitive joke, and the lone sprint car graduate is the slowest car in the field.

All that is missing is people in the grandstands and watching on TV.

Good thing Tony created the IRL so that Foyt, Menard, and Hemelgarn could have the OPPORTUNITY to get blown to the weeds just like they used to.

cart7

05-11-03, 08:12 PM

originally posted by DaveL
Good thing Tony created the IRL so that Foyt, Menard, and Hemelgarn could have the OPPORTUNITY to get blown to the weeds just like they used to.
:rofl:

Aww, who needs Cart anyway? All there presence did was clutter the stands with fans and create long traffic lines. I've seen Cart practices that had more spectators than Indy did today for pole day. :shakehead

Hot Rod Otis

05-11-03, 08:20 PM

And over @ Crackforum the regulars are going ga-ga over Helio and the rest of the Brazilionaires. Wasn't it only 3 short years ago when Helio was snidely referred to as "Fidel". Weren't the Gomers sneeringly asking "whats a Helio"? I saw old Webb say Helio Castro-Neves was Portugese for shift-without-lift, and the lemmings laughed there asses off. Now there tripping all over themselves to do their best Monica Lewinsky imitations on all of the Brazilians.:shakehead Hell there even in love with with Shiggy, Tora and Shinji.:laugh:

Well Dave, I guess pretty soon we'll be treated to one of Turn13's mind-numbing wastes of bandwidth about how and why the IRL HAD to be created. Seems that the worse things get @ Indy, the longer his BS posts of revisionist history and lies become. Must be getting desperate.:gomer:

DaveL

05-11-03, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Hot Rod Otis
And over @ Crackforum the regulars are going ga-ga over Helio and the rest of the Brazilionaires. Wasn't it only 3 short years ago when Helio was snidely referred to as "Fidel". Weren't the Gomers sneeringly asking "whats a Helio"? I saw old Webb say Helio Castro-Neves was Portugese for shift-without-lift, and the lemmings laughed there asses off. Now there tripping all over themselves to do their best Monica Lewinsky imitations on all of the Brazilians.

You forgot to mention that these were the "nameless faceless Brazilians" that would have added nothing to Indy had they come. Too bad we don't have the old Speednet posts to throw back at them. Someone tried to point all of this hypocracy but the moderater locked and deleted the post within minutes of its posting. I guess the Lemmings don't like to be reminded of what they were saying just a few short years ago.

Well Dave, I guess pretty soon we'll be treated to one of Turn13's mind-numbing wastes of bandwidth about how and why the IRL HAD to be created.

Yep, and he'll invent some more new reasons after the last batch have been thoroughly discredited. Maybe the latest reason is because Japanese road racers who had no inkling of ever running at Indy needed a series to compete in so they could continue the tradition of American oval track racing. That's makes about as much sense as anything else he ever wrote.

WickerBill

05-11-03, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by DaveL
Too bad we don't have the old Speednet posts to throw back at them. Someone tried to point all of this hypocracy but the moderater locked and deleted the post within minutes of its posting. I guess the Lemmings don't like to be reminded of what they were saying just a few short years ago.

Well, I have this feeling that those posts would be allowed here; I wouldn't mind being a repository for some forum war history. I like history!

racermike

05-11-03, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by DaveL
Yep, the world is in order once more. The megabuck teams with their foreign road racers powered by leased engines dominate the front part of the grid, and the Menards and Hemelgarns and back to being the insignificant backmarkers they once were. We have Japanese road racers in cars at the behest of the mfgs who have never run at Indy before (and never would have gave it a thought 5 years ago either) make qualifiying for the race as simple as just driving around for four laps. AJ is back to being an uncompetitive joke, and the lone sprint car graduate is the slowest car in the field.

All that is missing is people in the grandstands and watching on TV.

Good thing Tony created the IRL so that Foyt, Menard, and Hemelgarn could have the OPPORTUNITY to get blown to the weeds just like they used to.

Could not have said it better myself.

Of course, the comment from the IRL side will continue to be "you just dont get it"

trubritz

05-11-03, 09:30 PM

According to the Indy Star, Chevvy has added 2 drivers - Wheldon and Yasukawa.

http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/7/042199-1647-092.html

Looks like this was the only way to get one of them chebbies into the top 15.

Also, notice the worst Toyota is the Foyt car :)

WickerBill

05-11-03, 09:30 PM

Darnit Dave...

You got my interest up, and I went to Google Groups and searched for 100 posts from May 1, 1996 - May 2, 1996 (searching USENET rec.autos.sport.indy)

The names I found in those two days:

Ehud Gavron
Jay Carina
Deborah Drake
Peter Olivia
Mark Frusciante
Rheal Nadeau
Eric Bin
Earl Ma
Tom Hickey
Allan Pagan
Paul Winalski
Dick
Russell Jaslow

Wow. I feel old, and worn out by this all of a sudden.

DaveL

05-11-03, 09:43 PM

One can only wonder if Hemelgarn, Menard, and Foyt are starting to whisper in Idiotgrandson's ear again about how EVIL Penske and the megabuck gang are and try to convince him to start a series where little guy has a shot at competing.

Someone help me out on this, is there any record of Shinji triumpantly removing his rookie stripes after he successfully completed his rookie test thereby making his Indy dream come true?

I mean at this rate, Lord Sagamore is going to have to create yet another series to save Indy from what the IRL has become!

And for those keeping score, here is the list of Indy rookies who have come from the short oval/sprint ranks:

Railbird

05-11-03, 09:57 PM

I mean at this rate, Lord Sagamore is going to have to create yet another series to save Indy from what the IRL has become!

LOL

cart7

05-11-03, 10:14 PM

originally posted by DaveL
And for those keeping score, here is the list of Indy rookies who have come from the short oval/sprint ranks:

I'd include Fisher, but she just drives like a rookie. ;)

SteveH

05-11-03, 10:46 PM

One thing's for certain, it will be hard for anyone to argue that Foyt and Hemelgarn do not deserve an asterisk next to their names in the record book. Their performance when faced with real competition shows just how weak the irl was when they won Indy. I remember Hemelgarn thumping his chest for a year afterwards, carrying on against CART. Now no one knows how you are, or cares. Still outside looking in.

Ziggy

05-11-03, 11:13 PM

DaveL, a buddy and I were discussing this earlier tonight. I dont think Nakano ever took a rookie test. He might have run early in ROP, but I cant swear to it. Maybe Railbird would know?

Ziggy

JoeBob

05-11-03, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by WickerBill
Darnit Dave...

You got my interest up, and I went to Google Groups and searched for 100 posts from May 1, 1996 - May 2, 1996 (searching USENET rec.autos.sport.indy)

The names I found in those two days:

Ehud Gavron
Jay Carina
Deborah Drake
Peter Olivia
Mark Frusciante
Rheal Nadeau
Eric Bin
Earl Ma
Tom Hickey
Allan Pagan
Paul Winalski
Dick
Russell Jaslow

Wow. I feel old, and worn out by this all of a sudden.

Dang WB, what did you have to go and do that for? I never posted there, but I lurked. You should have turned the clock back another 6 months so you could add Racin Gardner to the list! (I'm also surprised that Jim DeFord didn't show up on your list.)

pchall

05-11-03, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Ziggy
DaveL, a buddy and I were discussing this earlier tonight. I dont think Nakano ever took a rookie test. He might have run early in ROP, but I cant swear to it. Maybe Railbird would know?

Ziggy

Wouldn't he be exempted from ROP and rookie stripes by having been on the track during CART 500s? If he ran in ROP it would have been for the IRL paid for testing time at IMS, methinks...

DaveL

05-11-03, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by SteveH
One thing's for certain, it will be hard for anyone to argue that Foyt and Hemelgarn do not deserve an asterisk next to their names in the record book. Their performance when faced with real competition shows just how weak the irl was when they won Indy.

Don't forget Cheever, although it is rather easy to do so. What I get a kick out of is that the Lemmings still throw out the "CART has nothing to offer" line. Nah, nothing except first class teams that make the former IRL front runners the backmarkers they were once before.

Wouldn't he be exempted from ROP and rookie stripes by having been on the track during CART 500s?

He would have been exempt. That's about the only decision of the IRL that has made any sense. The point I was trying to make was that the "rookies" aren't seeing Indy as the fulfullment of a lifelong dream. Most the guys the CART teams or engine mfgs have brought are there because that's what the contract says. It's a place to race, nothing more. Wheldon and Dixon didn't look the least bit excited or awestruck about racing at Indy. Considering how easy they make that big bad speedway look, they haven't a reason to be awestruck.

But hey, the Lemmings don't seem to mind the blase attitude of the ex-CART drivers who consider Indy as the track the next race is at. The old lines about CART drivers not "respecting" Indy enough have given way to the Lemmings peeing all over themselves at how great of a job the ex-CART drivers are doing.

Back to what SteveH said, after the '96 race Hemelgarn was spouting off about how great his team and Buddy were, and the Lemmings were gaga over Tony Stewart. Had CART been there to compete for 33 starting spots, Lazier would have been Buddy Backmarker like he always was, and Greg Moore (RIP) and Alex Zanardi would have had people saying, "Tony who?" as they competed for ROY honors.

BTW, Sportscenter is on right now. 45 minutes into the show they still haven't mentioned Indy quals. The depths to which Indy interest has sunk is mindboggling.

nrc

05-12-03, 01:12 AM

What's a Helio?

Hink

05-12-03, 02:31 AM

Ask Web.

.

My answer:

This year he's the defending lemming demigod with the "He pass me under yellow" cry that Lord Tony says is true.

He was formerly known as Fidel Castro, Brazillionaire, ride buyer, and was generally associated with all that is wrong about CART and why the creation of the IRL was necessary.

Now he is The main lemming Demigod among "the faithful" and all he did was switch series.

Napoleon

05-12-03, 07:21 AM

RTKar

05-12-03, 08:19 AM

Don't forget about the picture of his fence climbing after the first Indy win and the guy in the background giving him the middle finger salute. Now, he and Penske are the returning heroes.

KLang

05-12-03, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by Hot Rod Otis

Well Dave, I guess pretty soon we'll be treated to one of Turn13's mind-numbing wastes of bandwidth about how and why the IRL HAD to be created. Seems that the worse things get @ Indy, the longer his BS posts of revisionist history and lies become. Must be getting desperate.:gomer:

T13 dropped a load in a thread in other racing over at 7G. NOW, all the problems at Indy are because of the boycot by Cart in 96. :rolleyes:

Eagle104

05-12-03, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Type-S
T13 dropped a load in a thread in other racing over at 7G. NOW, all the problems at Indy are because of the boycot by Cart in 96. :rolleyes:
Ha, I fully expect to see him play the "CART was hiding weapons of mass destruction" card any day now.
:laugh:

Napoleon

05-12-03, 04:50 PM

I just checked out T13's ramblings over on 7G.

:rolleyes:

Good thing we have DaveL, Otis and some of the others to slap him around.

mapguy

05-12-03, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Napoleon
I just checked out T13's ramblings over on 7G.

:rolleyes:

Good thing we have DaveL, Otis and some of the others to slap him around.

Yup. :thumbup:

cartmanoz

05-13-03, 03:59 AM

Before 1995, no-one outside the US really gave a hoot about the Indy 500.

From 1996 onwards, no-one really knew that the Indy 500 still raced.

Nothing has changed!;)

devilmaster

05-13-03, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Napoleon
I just checked out T13's ramblings over on 7G.

:rolleyes:

Good thing we have DaveL, Otis and some of the others to slap him around.

Even better we don't allow his spew here! :)

Steve

Ziggy

05-13-03, 06:36 PM

cartmanoz said "Before 1995, no-one outside the US really gave a hoot about the Indy 500."

Yes, this is why it was part of the World Drivers Championship in the 1950's. It is also why Ascari, Farina and Fangio all tried their hand at it. Then there was the original Nancyboy from some backwater country called Australia named Jack Brabham who wanted to win some real money. He was followed by atypical nancyboys such as Jim Clark, Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart. Not to forget the other road racing nobodies such as Jochien Rindt, Dennis Hulme. In this list alone there are 12 World Driving Champions. Im sure none of their fans much cared what they were doing. Not to mention the huge fan base that followed Emerson Fittipaldi and Nigel Mansell's (another three titles) antics in this small time, US based sport.

Here in America, We don't really give a hoot about what goes on anywhere else. Real racefans however, realize that great racing takes place all over the world. Maybe that is why the Indy 500 was won by foreign built cars from the years 1913 to 1919. This of course would have been way before your time, back when your ancestors were still trying to figure out a way to saw off their leg irons.

America is a big country, full of proud people and proud racefans. We have a unique and wonderful heritage dating back to the turn of the century. Next time you want to take a shot at the USA, better pack a lunch.

Enjoy your island

Balls

Ziggy

Peter Olivola

05-13-03, 06:50 PM

Selective use of information is a bad thing, Ziggy. The I500 was part of the F1 World Championship only until the U.S. got its own Grand Prix. None of the F1 teams ever contested the race during the era of its inclusion in the championship.

Yes, F1 drivers were poorly paid in that era compared to what they could win at Indy. But there were few of them represented at the I500 until Gurney convinced Colin Chapman and Ford to exploit the advantage of rear engined design that hadn't yet reached U.S. racing.

When F1 got its financial act together the F1 community ceased its involvement at Indy. McLaren, once dominant at Indy, disappeared. Eagle went bye-bye. The only manufacturers who have supported Indy through the CART era have been March, Lola and Reynard, none of whom ever accomplished anything in F1.

It's really too bad that a few facts touched off your insecuritities.

Originally posted by Ziggy
cartmanoz said "Before 1995, no-one outside the US really gave a hoot about the Indy 500."

Yes, this is why it was part of the World Drivers Championship in the 1950's. It is also why Ascari, Farina and Fangio all tried their hand at it. Then there was the original Nancyboy from some backwater country called Australia named Jack Brabham who wanted to win some real money. He was followed by atypical nancyboys such as Jim Clark, Graham Hill and Jackie Stewart. Not to forget the other road racing nobodies such as Jochien Rindt, Dennis Hulme. In this list alone there are 12 World Driving Champions. Im sure none of their fans much cared what they were doing. Not to mention the huge fan base that followed Emerson Fittipaldi and Nigel Mansell's (another three titles) antics in this small time, US based sport.

Here in America, We don't really give a hoot about what goes on anywhere else. Real racefans however, realize that great racing takes place all over the world. Maybe that is why the Indy 500 was won by foreign built cars from the years 1913 to 1919. This of course would have been way before your time, back when your ancestors were still trying to figure out a way to saw off their leg irons.

America is a big country, full of proud people and proud racefans. We have a unique and wonderful heritage dating back to the turn of the century. Next time you want to take a shot at the USA, better pack a lunch.

Enjoy your island

Balls

Ziggy

Ziggy

05-13-03, 07:09 PM

Yes Peter, why dont we just gloss over facts? Everything happens for a reason... It was all just a tune up. (for the real racin' to come later) I do believe Ferrari participated in the Indy 500 in an attempt to secure points.

tomato, tomatoe

Ziggy

RacinM3

05-13-03, 08:14 PM

This of course would have been way before your time, back when your ancestors were still trying to figure out a way to saw off their leg irons.

:eek: Once again, Ziggy outdoes himself.

Railbird

05-13-03, 09:21 PM

just a few facts here:

Post war, pre-rear engine saw name F1 drivers such as Caracciola, Schell, Ascari, Farina, and Fangio taking their shot at Indy.

Ferrari had a four car entry, with Ascari up in one, in '52. They even stooped to buying a Kurtis 500c in '55 but couldn't figure out how to assemble it until '56 when they shoved Farina in it on their way to a DNQ.

F1 "got it's finacial act together" starting with Chapman returning from Indy with the thoughts of sponsorships dancing in his head.

as an aside...

This month of May is about to kill me boys.

Peter Olivola

05-13-03, 10:07 PM

At a time when the F1 team had a minimum of three drivers they tried it once with one. If you consider that serious team participation then tomatoe/tomatoe it is.

Originally posted by Ziggy
Yes Peter, why dont we just gloss over facts? Everything happens for a reason... It was all just a tune up. (for the real racin' to come later) I do believe Ferrari participated in the Indy 500 in an attempt to secure points.

tomato, tomatoe

Ziggy

Cam

05-13-03, 10:11 PM

quote:This of course would have been way before your time, back when your ancestors were still trying to figure out a way to saw off their leg irons.

Originally posted by RacinM3
:eek: Once again, Ziggy outdoes himself.

You would also be poking that one at me Zig! AND to be honest, We never really heard about it in Oz. We never got the results. We never got the race on TV.

We got F1 and out own home grown racing and that was about it. All we really cared about was Bathurst. That was OUR big one. Maybe I will have to take you down there for it sometime? ;)

Cam.

Ziggy

05-13-03, 10:39 PM

By Cam

AND to be honest, We never really heard about it in Oz.

Exactly. Its not any Americans fault. Failure to educate yourself sort of falls in your own lap.The Indy 500 did quite well without any advertisement in Oz? Australia, and in this case New Zealand, are kind of far away, and I bet boat fare is expensive as well. Wont argue with you on these points.

The entire gist of these comments were generated by the sneering down the nose at Championship racing. Whether or not it meant anything to fans in other countries is not that much of an arguable point. It is a fact that the International players from Motorsports did realize the competition, and more importantly, the purse of this event. From an American standpoint, not only did it mean something, it meant everything. If your from say, Australia or England, and think oval track racing and the Indianapolis 500 is rubbish, by all means, chime in on a message board and me, being the shy American type, will no doubt bow down to the superior European Fan at each and every opportunity.

I have studied this sport extensively. As an American, I have no shame on the History of Champcar Racing. We had no Willy Mairesse, but we had Ed Elisian. Im OK with that....

Ziggy

Napoleon

05-14-03, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by Ziggy
It is a fact that the International players from Motorsports did realize the competition, and more importantly, the purse of this event.

The fact that Le Mans, which IMO has the best argument for being called the worlds most famous race track, has a corner named after Indianapolis tells you something.

chop456

05-25-03, 03:55 PM

Thought this one merited a bump.

Indeed, all is right again.

Brazilian road racer on megabuck team wins with a Toyota engine. What could be more in line with the vision than that?

Didn't get to see the race due to hallway painting and the kids watching Harry Potter, but I'm happy for Gil. Hopefully he'll have the sense to retire while he still can.

Kate

05-25-03, 05:14 PM

Yes, I heard CNN report that "Gilday Ferr-onn" won that thing. I hope Gil isn't going to keep racing until someone in America learns to pronounce his name! A proud day for American Sprint Car Dr--, er, for Brazil, Japan and Britain, eh? ;)

Before 1961 there was no world outside your own borders unless you were wealthy or had a Ham Radio, except for what you saw at the Movietone News once a week when you went to the 25 cent show downtown. Even if you lived in another part of the USA besides where that track is, you didn't necessarily hear much about it. The news was only 15 minutes per night and they usually had better things to talk about.

Anyway I'm glad it's over for another year and Gil survived it and now on to Le Mans for some real international racing! :cool:

P.S. Australians are proud of their convict ancestors and so are those Original Settlers of the State of Georgia, who once had a clause in their constitution forbidding settlement there by lawyers.

Peter Olivola

05-27-03, 09:32 AM

If you didn't know what was going on in the rest of the world before 1961 you were either not old enough to read or deliberately ignorant.

Originally posted by Kate
Before 1961 there was no world outside your own borders unless you were wealthy or had a Ham Radio, except for what you saw at the Movietone News once a week when you went to the 25 cent show downtown. Even if you lived in another part of the USA besides where that track is, you didn't necessarily hear much about it. The news was only 15 minutes per night and they usually had better things to talk about.