KK an 'Idiot'?

[Sean Malone]

KK made John Oreovicz’s list of people responsible for causing or delaying the merger and yesterday someone made a comment here about Tony George and KK both being “idiots”. Now, Champ Car has made some pretty questionable if not down right bad judgment calls in recent years but I want to put this out there and see who agrees with me…

Kevin Kalkhoven is not responsible for the split nor does a merger fall on his shoulders.

Kevin and Jerry bought the remains Champ Car, gave it a new name, put new people in positions of responsibility etc. They bought a packaged race series to do with what they may. What is so difficult about that concept? Why do the accusations come that it is up to KK to fold his new race series because “it’s the right thing to do”. Just because Champ Car has some DNA (and very little at that these days) in CART and CART and the IMS folks have been at each others throats for decades doesn’t mean because KK bought a race series, he inherits the burden of “reconciliation with Indy”.

If sponsors were tripping over themselves to get their names on the cars and money was flowing freely this wouldn’t be an issue. The pressure, as we all know, revolves around the 500.

KK and Co. have conveyed numerous times that they understand that a single series would be the best solution for US open wheel racing and have even tried to sit down with TG to come to an agreement only to get shut out once again. So that makes KK an idiot?

If KK is an idiot for not handing his series over to Tony George for the ‘good of the sport’ than who should fold their sports car series? France, Panoz?

I agree with those in the recent thread here that the best course of action is to change the Champ Car product to be very separate from the IRL. No more explaining to people “well, they use to race at Indy and then the idiot who owns Indy kicked them out and now they…”. You get the idea.

Again, KK isn’t the idiot in this big soap opera. He bought into the story but the protagonist with the stunted vocabulary (“uh”) and the race track in Indiana is the one to blame and the one who can end this schism.

Yeah, it could use more commas but I had to get this off my chest.

[SteveH]

I think the accusation is more from guilt by association. ;)

[KLang]

Kevin Kalkhoven is not responsible for the split nor does a merger fall on his shoulders.

:thumbup:

Anything else is just indycentric spin.

[Andrew Longman]

Sean, I agree, but by using the Champcar name, Vanderbilt Cup and claiming the continued thread of the National Championship they are not forging their own new path and will continue to piss off the Indycetrists.

TG is the one who abandoned that thread by starting his own series, but the IRListas don't see that. They say CART abandon the thread long before the split by taking on too many road courses and hiring foreign drivers.

But, no, KK is not an idiot. He could do a better job hiring and overseeing those responsible for the operations side of his business, but he seems to be carrying on and trying to grow an open wheel series that reflects the realities of the market while not having the "benefit" of TG and his race.

[Methanolandbrats]

>>>KK made John Oreovicz’s list of people responsible for causing or delaying the merger and yesterday someone made a comment here about Tony George and KK both being “idiots”.>>>

Oreovicz does not understand that Tony is seriously deluded and a megalomaniac. There is no way to "merge" with that other than to surrender total control to Tony. That is not a merger.

[Sean Malone]

Sean, I agree, but by using the Champcar name, Vanderbilt Cup and claiming the continued thread of the National Championship they are not forging their own new path and will continue to piss off the Indycetrists.

TG is the one who abandoned that thread by starting his own series, but the IRListas don't see that. They say CART abandon the thread long before the split by taking on too many road courses and hiring foreign drivers.

But, no, KK is not an idiot. He could do a better job hiring and overseeing those responsible for the operations side of his business, but he seems to be carrying on and trying to grow an open wheel series that reflects the realities of the market while not having the "benefit" of TG and his race.

Right. Nicely said.

Regarding the Champ Car name, historically was 'Champ Car' ever a trademarked or even branded name for AAA or USAC or even CART? I always thought it was word of mouth kind of name for the cars that ran on the National Championship trail. The designation was due to multiple types of cars running from race to race. Some called 'Champ Cars' the 'big cars' because the dirt trackers that were in the same race were in smaller sized cars.
True that using the Vanderbilt Cup is maintaining that history but it is such a foggy, distant history that was never really promoted in the last three decades that even the remaining fans are unsure about the origins. Ask the kids at CCF why they call Champ Cars, Champ Cars and I'm willing to bet you'll get a dozen different answers.

[Spicoli]

Tony ****ed it all up. end of story.

KK may be an idiot, but he's our idiot.

[jonovision_man]

^^^ :rofl: Can't help but agree.

I've pretty much said my piece on the 'dinger thread, but I'll repeat it here. ChampCar is going nowhere fast, they're dumping races and forever scrambling to put together a grid... sponsors are few and far between, the schedule is a last minute hack-job (and they routinely dump a few mid-season), the TV is being paid for out of pocket.

So I'm sorry, but KK is pretty far from a genious. The writing is on the wall, it's either salvage something of ChampCar or just let it die entirely.

Would you call someone an idiot if they continued to subsidize a business that was clearly losing money and showed no sign of turning around? How many years of losing money would have to pass before you apply the idiot label...

If a merger is possible and KK isn't jumping at it, he's an idiot.

jono

[Sean Malone]

^^

Would you call someone an idiot if they continued to subsidize a business that was clearly losing money and showed no sign of turning around? How many years of losing money would have to pass before you apply the idiot label...


jono

This is the part you are struggling with. Rich guys have hobbies. Some own baseball teams that can't win games and lose millions a year. Some own race series i.e. Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven. It's not like we're talking about them owning GM.

[OW]

^^^ Zackly

Some do things ONLY for themselves and end up missing (presumed dead) in Nevada

[Sean Malone]

"The rich are different from you and me", said Nick Carraway.

"Yes, they have more money," replied Ernest Hemingway.

[KLang]

If a merger is possible and KK isn't jumping at it, he's an idiot.

Given what FTG has done with the sport and his 'big race' over the last decade, it seems to me only an idiot would go into business with him.

[jonovision_man]

This is the part you are struggling with. Rich guys have hobbies. Some own baseball teams that can't win games and lose millions a year. Some own race series i.e. Tony George, Kevin Kalkhoven. It's not like we're talking about them owning GM.

Honestly, that's the only explanation that makes any sense... but why would you want to own the series when you can be a team owner?


Given what FTG has done with the sport and his 'big race' over the last decade, it seems to me only an idiot would go into business with him.

He's an idiot too, but he's an idiot that's still making money off of racing.

jono

[Sean Malone]

He's an idiot too, but he's an idiot that's still making money off of racing.

jono

TG making money? That's debatable. Let's ask his sisters.:)

[robot9000]

^^^ :rofl: Can't help but agree.

I've pretty much said my piece on the 'Sharpe thread, but I'll repeat it here. Indycar is going nowhere fast, they're dumping drivers and forever scrambling to put together a grid... non-Honda sponsors are few and far between, the TV is being paid for by the I500 as the rest are big time loosers.

So I'm sorry, but FTG is pretty far from a genious. The writing is on the wall, it's either salvage something of Indycar or just let it die entirely.

Would you call someone an idiot if they continued to subsidize a business that was clearly losing money and showed no sign of turning around? How many years of losing money would have to pass before you apply the idiot label...

If a merger is possible and FTG isn't jumping at it, he's an idiot.

jono

Fixed it for ya :cool:

[Corner5]

Are you a fan of Racing or a fan of Business?

The Irl blows and its no substitute.
The Irl admits that can't be successful with CC around and they want everything CC has.

I'll take my chances with CC,it is what it is.

[Indy]

I think Oreo and almost everyone else are looking the wrong way. Champ Car has gone downhill since KK and GF became disenchanted with one another. Since then, the two minority partners have had undue influence over the direction of the series, and it is pretty clear (at least I think it is) that Forsythe has done a better job of using them to gain control. Since then everyone has wondered where KK is, why he is communing with penguins, and so on. The answer is that Forsythe is the owner who has forged the necessary alliances to wield the most power over CCWS. So KK is not stupid, unless crossing Mr. Forsythe and then watching your company slip away from you is stupid.

[RTKar]

KK made John Oreovicz’s list of people responsible for causing or delaying the merger and yesterday someone made a comment here about Tony George and KK both being “idiots”. Now, Champ Car has made some pretty questionable if not down right bad judgment calls in recent years but I want to put this out there and see who agrees with me…

Kevin Kalkhoven is not responsible for the split nor does a merger fall on his shoulders.

True, KK is not responsible for the split. I put that on CART's arrogance and tg's ineptitude to see the big picture. The question of merger is a tinder box. Do we really want or need that? It's the question that is most debatable. tg is definitely an idiot in my estimation and has no qualifications to run anything, KK on the other hand has charted a separate course away from indy, however it doesn't appear to be working well and I put that blame on the people's whose shoulder's he's made responsible for CC's course. They cannot afford to make many mistakes, yet they make so many it shakes my confidence. Racing is a business, a results oriented business, both on and off the track. KK being a business man first and foremost should be doing a better job in charting CC's course and producing results. It appears to me there is no longer a sound coherent game plan coming from CC.

[jonovision_man]

Are you a fan of Racing or a fan of Business?

Racing.

But if the business fails, how much racing will there be?

jono

[Methanolandbrats]

Racing.

But if the business fails, how much racing will there be?

jono That would be the birth of Fenderless GrandAm :yuck:

[JT265]

That would be the birth of Fenderless GrandAm :yuck:

2 hours and no reply from SeanO. GADZOOKS!!!! Say it ain't so!!!! :eek:




:D

[pchall]

Sean, I agree, but by using the Champcar name, Vanderbilt Cup and claiming the continued thread of the National Championship they are not forging their own new path and will continue to piss off the Indycetrists.


I don't remember ever reading that the Vanderbilt Cup was ever awarded for an oval race. It was always an international road racing trophy before CART got permission to have a copy made and use it for their series championship. IMS has no claim to the tradition behind the Vanderbilt Cup.

[Insomniac]

I don't think he is an idiot, per se. I don't know his motivation or vision though. I think we can all understand the basic terms of a merger are capitulating to TG. If that is an unacceptable condition to him and GF, then that's their decision. If their goal is to build a profitable business you do have to wonder why they're still at it, or at a minimum, wonder about some business decisions they are making.

[STD]

I don't remember ever reading that the Vanderbilt Cup was ever awarded for an oval race. It was always an international road racing trophy before CART got permission to have a copy made and use it for their series championship. IMS has no claim to the tradition behind the Vanderbilt Cup.

Nice to see someone else found the same. It doesn't really have a postive or long lived storied history.

[Rosco]

Nice to see someone else found the same. It doesn't really have a postive or long lived storied history.

Wasn't that trophy given to A J Foyt for a sports car win that was taken away and awarded to John Mecom, I seem to recall that Foyt melted the trophy down and sent the remnants to John Mecom several years after the race

[chop456]

who should fold their sports car series? France, Panoz?

France.

Need any other incredibly easy questions answered? I'm your man.

[Methanolandbrats]

France.

Need any other incredibly easy questions answered? I'm your man.

But that's good close racing and the grids are full :confused:

[Indy]

But that's good close racing and the grids are full :confused:

You mean " racin' "?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Yeah, "racin'", a level of motorsports that is apparently even below forum posting. :rolleyes:

[Methanolandbrats]

Yeah, "racin'", a level of motorsports that is apparently even below forum posting. :rolleyes:
You been busy? It took days to smoke you out :D

[chop456]

Yeah, "racin'", a level of motorsports that is apparently even below forum posting. :rolleyes:

I don't know if Grand Am ranks below internet posting, but it's gotta' be close. :tony:

[Indy]

Internet posting takes more technology.

[Methanolandbrats]

Internet posting takes more technology.:laugh:

[cart7]

Most of us got to see the true potential of what OW racing could be in this country.

Sadly, we'll never see it again in our lifetimes as long as the Hulmans own Indy.

[Andrew Longman]

If that TV schedule is correct, the KK IS and idiot. One hour highlight shows? What is this, 1968 and showing races on ABCs Wide World of Sports sandwiched between cliff diving and surfing? This will get absolutely zero ratings because even I won't watch it.

And the two best races on the schedule, RA and Cleveland are highlight shows? The absolute stupidest thing they have ever done.

[Methanolandbrats]

If that TV schedule is correct, the KK IS and idiot. One hour highlight shows? What is this, 1968 and showing races on ABCs Wide World of Sports sandwiched between cliff diving and surfing? This will get absolutely zero ratings because even I won't watch it.

And the two best races on the schedule, RA and Cleveland are highlight shows? The absolute stupidest thing they have ever done.

Apparently they are having a little trouble coming up with cash for airtime.....if true, that is a very bad sign. I'm kinda feeling like I should pull the Champcar stickers off all my cars and just say **** it.

[Sean Malone]

KK is an idiot. Sorry jono.:cool:

The only smart thing to do now is sell and end this nightmare.

Maybe he'll sell it to NASCAR. that would stir things up over in gomerville!

I'm sure they would LOVE to headline Grand Am at Long beach.

[jonovision_man]

KK is an idiot. Sorry jono.:cool:

So what made up your mind... 1 hour of RA? :shakehead

Every year things have gotten a little worse, this year will be no different.

jono

[Sean Malone]

So what made up your mind... 1 hour of RA? :shakehead



Yes. Everything else has been perfect. :gomer:

[KLang]

I don't think he's an idiot. I think they are just tired of throwing their money away on this 'hobby' of theirs.

[Sean Malone]

I don't think he's an idiot. I think they are just tired of throwing their money away on this 'hobby' of theirs.

But if your horse can't walk anymore do you keep beating it until it crawls along and dies or do you put it out of it's misery?

Kill it KK.

Do it for the children.:cry: