rumors on CCWS

[jonovision_man]

That's what started this conversation. I seriously doubt after securing time to air all the other races they decided to not pay for 4 more hours.

4 hours of network time is very very expensive. We're talking millions.

jono

[nissan gtp]

meh, deleted

[greenie]

I've tried to stay out of this, but the renewal form for Cleveland came in the mail yesterday, and I don't know what to do.

No way I'd send any dough Champ Car's way. I don't know who owns Cleveburg, but if they BK the whole series (which is highly possible, if not likely IMO), then you could be SOL trying to get your dough back.

[Opposite Lock]

Tip of the cap to Gentilozzi for presiding over the demise of both Trans Am and Champ Car. That's an impressive accomplishment.



There should be an awards banquet:


"For excellence in Douchebaggery, the award goes to...

Mr. Paul '*******-*******, ***-*******, …………..

............., .........-............, ......'.

…………, and complete ****-bag' Gentilozzi !!!"

:tony:

[Insomniac]

4 hours of network time is very very expensive. We're talking millions.

jono

There's about a 20-30M viewer difference between ESPN and ABC. You think the difference is that much?

[jonovision_man]

There's about a 20-30M viewer difference between ESPN and ABC. You think the difference is that much?

CCWS draws 0.6-1.2 on network, and zippo on cable. People still gravitate to the networks, I think the difference is that much.

BTW, check out:
http://www.indycar.com/schedule/schedule.php

Seven races on network TV, in their entirety.

jono

[nrc]

http://www.indycar.com/schedule/schedule.php

Seven races on network TV, in their entirety.

jonoUnless they run over into beach volleyball.

[jonovision_man]

True... one time the IRL race in this area (Boston ABC) was bumped for a telethon, another time it was cut short with 10 laps remaining due to local news.

jono

[nissan gtp]

True... one time the IRL race in this area (Boston ABC) was bumped for a telethon, another time it was cut short with 10 laps remaining due to local news.

jono

that's because ABC sucks

[Insomniac]

CCWS draws 0.6-1.2 on network, and zippo on cable. People still gravitate to the networks, I think the difference is that much.

BTW, check out:
http://www.indycar.com/schedule/schedule.php

Seven races on network TV, in their entirety.

jono

For the sake of argument, let's say ABC time buys are 2x more than ESPN/ESPN2. They bought 20.5 hours on ESPN/ESPN2 (the equivalent of 10.25 on ABC). So you're looking at 14.25 vs 18.25. They cheaped out to save 22%. And I think I'm being generous on the difference between time buys. If network TV is that much better, why not time buy 1 Hr slots on NBC? They don't have NASCAR anymore or NFL on Sunday afternoons.

Isn't the IRL to CC comparison apples to oranges? Disney is paying them so they are going to do what is best for Disney and/or what the contract requires.

I'm still not clear why CC announced a multi-year deal with Disney when they are the ones paying. The only thing I can think of is they may integrate it more into other things since it's not a year to year deal.

[Spicoli]

3 drivers.

[dando]

that's because ABC sucks

That has nothing to do with ABC. Rather the affiliate decided to pre-empt and cut short coverage.

-Kevin

[jonovision_man]

For the sake of argument, let's say ABC time buys are 2x more than ESPN/ESPN2. They bought 20.5 hours on ESPN/ESPN2 (the equivalent of 10.25 on ABC). So you're looking at 14.25 vs 18.25. They cheaped out to save 22%. And I think I'm being generous on the difference between time buys. If network TV is that much better, why not time buy 1 Hr slots on NBC? They don't have NASCAR anymore or NFL on Sunday afternoons.

Isn't the IRL to CC comparison apples to oranges? Disney is paying them so they are going to do what is best for Disney and/or what the contract requires.

I'm still not clear why CC announced a multi-year deal with Disney when they are the ones paying. The only thing I can think of is they may integrate it more into other things since it's not a year to year deal.

I can't remember how much the TV used to cost CART... it was right there in black and white back in the days when it was a public company, I'd imagine the TV costs aren't far off what they were then. Something in the $800K-$1M range per hour for network TV rings a bell, but it's entirely from memory (and I drink a lot ;))

jono

[dando]

I can't remember how much the TV used to cost CART... it was right there in black and white back in the days when it was a public company, I'd imagine the TV costs aren't far off what they were then. Something in the $800K-$1M range per hour for network TV rings a bell, but it's entirely from memory (and I drink a lot ;))

jono

C^RT used to get paid by the Mouse House until circa '02 or '03 or so. That ended when the Mouse House backed FTG's league, and proclaimed the EARL would win. It was only a small amount like $4 or $5mm, but it was income and not an expen$e.

-Kevin

[jonovision_man]

I found it! :thumbup: And I was off.

There is a LOT of good stuff in this document... ie. Walker got almost $6M in team assistance!

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVS7.23Dg.htm#1eew


TELEVISION EXPENSES. In 2002, we bought the air time at approximately
$235,000 per hour and paid approximately $3.4 million for production for our CBS
and FOX races. We also incurred expenses for our international production of
$2.3 million. For domestic television rights with respect to the CBS and FOX
broadcasts, we received the advertising inventory which we and our agents sold,
to partially offset these expenses. We also received a guaranteed rights fee
from our international broadcast partners to partially offset these costs. (See
"Television Revenue")

In 2003, we will again buy the air time at approximately $240,000 per hour
for our CBS races. Speed Channel will provide the air time for the races aired
on their network, including Champ Car practice and qualifying and a half-hour
pre-race show. We will pay for production costs associated with the races to be
broadcast on their network. We will also incur expenses for our international
production for all of our races.

So they weren't paying anything for Speed... vs. spending $235K/hour for FOX and CBS.

jono

[FCYTravis]

:( :shakehead

Just a sad, pathetic shadow of what was once one of the greatest racing series on Earth.

Shut down the freak show already.

[Insomniac]

I found it! :thumbup: And I was off.

There is a LOT of good stuff in this document... ie. Walker got almost $6M in team assistance!

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVS7.23Dg.htm#1eew



So they weren't paying anything for Speed... vs. spending $235K/hour for FOX and CBS.

jono

Who is picking up the production bill? Seems like that will cost more than air time.

[jonovision_man]

Who is picking up the production bill? Seems like that will cost more than air time.

I can only assume that would be ChampCar, since the network isn't getting any ad revenue out of it there's no real motivation for them to do it.

BTW - The number quoted in the filing for the production cost has to be for the entire season. Why don't they merge the international and domestic feed into one production??

jono

[dando]

Who is picking up the production bill? Seems like that will cost more than air time.

That would have been C^RT...keep in mind they had $100mm or so in the warchest from the IPO...aka:Pookfair. After that dried up, the likes of Ganasty, etc. bolted for the EARL as soon as the free buffet was over. Bankruptcy ensued, and here we are today under the current puppet regime. I'd love to know how much the Three Stooges (formerly the Three Amigos) dropped into CCWS the past three years. Gotta be a drop in the bucket compared to FTG, but likely a good sum.

EDIT: forgot to add that C^RT employed the production team. They had a variety of groups that handled production (IIRC, Ligier, Beetlejuice (sic), etc.

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=7551

-Kevin

[cameraman]

The number quoted in the filing for the production cost has to be for the entire season. Why don't they merge the international and domestic feed into one production??

One is chopped up for commercials with graphics and interview bits. The other is just the race so the foreign language graphics and interview bits can be inserted.

[opinionated ow]

You know, I'm kind of looking forward to what RM has to say about this whole deal.

There's a lot that hit the fan this week:
- TV follies
- Cotman
- Matos saying 'hasta la vista' and leaving the $2 million check behind

He should be in rare form.

apparently this came from robin, not 100% sure though.
A.J. Foyt is holding a seance to contact some of the old guard...Jimmy Bryan, Eddie
Sachs, Jud Larson, Don Branson and Bobby Marshman...filling them in on the
current state of affairs in open wheel racing.

Imagine a little telepathic trip to the White Front in the Sky with some of
the old guard as we bring Jimmy Bryan, Eddie Sachs, Jud Larson, Don Branson and
Bobby Marshman up to speed on today's racing headlines.

A.J. Foyt hosts this séance and immediately stirs up the boys.

Foyt: "To be quite truthful, I'm not sure y'all aren't in a better place
considering all the stuff that's happened."

Branson: "Such as?"

Foyt: "Do you want me to start with girls in the cars or Indy qualifying or
that boy from Brazil who likes to dance?"

Marshman: "Girls, you mean like Linda Vaughn?"

Foyt: "No, I mean like Danica Patrick. She led Indy a couple years ago and
damn near won the race. Now she's the biggest thing we've got. Hell, she's the
ONLY thing we've got."

Bryan: "Women ain't allowed in the pits."

Foyt: "That all changed in the 1970s. Then I let Janet Guthrie drive my car."

Sachs: "Wait a minute. Women can drive Indy cars and YOU gave one of them a
ride?"

Foyt: "It was a favor to Mr. Hulman. Women burned their bras and got real
uppity in the '70s and we had to let 'em in Gasoline Alley."

Larson: "During the day?"

Foyt: "Hell yes, I think Betty Rutherford was the first one in and now
they're everywhere. They do PR, television, a few of them work on cars and we had
three of 'em in this year's Indy 500."

Branson: "You mean three in Gasoline Alley?"

Foyt: "No, I mean three in the starting lineup."

Branson (signals for a double scotch): "The only way that could have happened
is that there were only 33 cars."

Foyt: "You got it. And nobody gets bumped anymore, unless you count that new
qualifying format where each car gets three chances every day."

Larson (chugging two beers and ordering another): "What are you talking
about?

You only get three attempts with one car and the last time I tried there were
66 cars going for 33 spots. Why in hell would the Speedway do that?"

Foyt: "They're trying to get people to come back for practice and
qualifying."

Marshman: "Let me get this straight. Women are strong enough to drive at
Salem, Winchester, Dayton, Langhorne, DuQuoin, Springfield, Sacramento and Indy?"

Sachs: "Let me guess, they've got power steering."

Foyt: "Well, one of 'em supposedly did a couple times but so did my driver."

Branson: "You got a sprint car winner drivin' for you A.J.?"

Foyt: "Not exactly. He's from England and talks kinda funny. But he's a good
road racer."

Sachs: "Jimmy Clark is still driving?"

Marshman: "Why would Indy cars be on road courses? What's wrong with Phoenix,
Trenton, Langhorne?"

Bryan: "My head is spinning. You're telling us that a woman is allowed to
drive an Indy car? One of them led the Indy 500? Clint Brawner wouldn't let his
wife drive their passenger car. Surely he doesn't go for that."

Foyt: "No, Clint's been gone a while but he was around for Janet."

Larson: "Stop it. I'm getting depressed. What are you gonna tell us next?
Drivers are hugging and kissing each other in victory lane?"

Foyt: "Oh that's happens all the time. That's nothing. Now we've got a
two-time Indy winner who was on TV the other night and he was dressed in a tuxedo
and he twirling some girl around and smiling and, you know, actin' like Fred
Astaire."

Sachs: "What's wrong with that?"

Branson: "Shut up Eddie. Now listen Foyt, I've listened to about all the
B.S. I can. What are you talking about? We were all gunfighters. We didn't dance, we
worked on cars, we fought, we drank, we went down the road and we raced. What
would make a man do something like that?"

Foyt: "Well, like I said, we got a lot of momma's boys in racin' today. This
Castranever is a furriner and I always thought he was a little light on his
feet anyway and way too happy. But I guess he's dancing to help our TV
ratings 'cause they pretty much suck anymore."

Marshman: "People don't watch Indy cars?"

Foyt: "They're all watching NASCAR."

Larson: "That makes no sense. Stock cars are slow and boring compared to Indy
cars. Hell, USAC has a better stock car division."

Foyt: "Not anymore. It went away. Just like the dirt cars from the Champ Car
schedule."

Sachs: "Well if they don't run on the dirt anymore, how do USAC guys make a
living?"

Foyt: "They go to NASCAR."

Branson: "That's enough. No more. You're telling us that women drive Indy
cars, the Indy 500 is no big deal, stock cars are the most popular form of racing
and there's a two-time Indy winner hopping around a stage on national television
like Arthur Murray?"

Bryan: "Leave me in the ground."

Larson: "Same here."

Marshman: "Ditto."

Sachs: "You know, I marched with the Gordon Pipers every May and I played
piano at the White Front so I don't see anything wrong with a guy who wants to do a
little dancing."

Foyt: "That's why Parnelli socked you in the eye."

from: http://www.bcraracing.com/Vintage/default.htm

[greenie]

:( :shakehead

Just a sad, pathetic shadow of what was once one of the greatest racing series on Earth.

Shut down the freak show already.

Agree 100%

Champ Car's like a spent porn star - it's over and painful to watch.

[Insomniac]

I can only assume that would be ChampCar, since the network isn't getting any ad revenue out of it there's no real motivation for them to do it.

BTW - The number quoted in the filing for the production cost has to be for the entire season. Why don't they merge the international and domestic feed into one production??

jono

I was hoping ABC/ESPN. Oh well. I did assume the whole season. If that was per race, I'd start my own production company right now!

[nissan gtp]

Agree 100%

Champ Car's like a spent porn star - it's over and painful to watch.

most accurate comparison yet :yuck:

[Methanolandbrats]

Agree 100%

Champ Car's like a spent porn star - it's over and painful to watch. Yes, but like a spent porn star, there is a certain attraction because you know she could still get the job done and put a smile on your face :D

[jonovision_man]

I was hoping ABC/ESPN. Oh well. I did assume the whole season. If that was per race, I'd start my own production company right now!

Grab a handicam and let's get out there... we couldn't do much worse than those first few post-bankruptcy years! :D

jono

[Insomniac]

Grab a handicam and let's get out there... we couldn't do much worse than those first few post-bankruptcy years! :D

jono

I'm sure I can make bad graphics, takes up half the screen and has weird glitches too!

[Rogue Leader]

I'm sure I can make bad graphics, takes up half the screen and has weird glitches too!

That goddamn telemetry they use. Its frustrating to watch because its on like a 1 second delay to what you are seeing!

[extramundane]

Yes, but like a spent porn star, there is a certain attraction because you know she could still get the job done and put a smile on your face :D

...but she could just as easily steal your wallet and leave you with a disease. :eek:

[Racing Truth]

Yes, but like a spent porn star, there is a certain attraction because you know she could still get the job done and put a smile on your face :D

Really? You think Champ Car can even do THAT?

BTW: Props to Travis for the "freak show" moniker. That's where we're at.

[Methanolandbrats]

Really? You think Champ Car can even do THAT?.......

Ya I do. I'd watch a single Champ Car lap at speed on a road course before I'd accept a free ticket to most racing series.

[TU Homer]

My mantra:
I still hate IRL. I don't watch it. I won't support it. F1 and maybe a little ALMS, but am definately missing indycar racing. AMA maybe. Until then, I'll try to get back to Road America and watch the races when I can.