Will You Become an IndyCar fan?

[Sean Malone]

Just curious. I despise what Tony George and his tantrum did to my favorite sport but I'm leaning toward supporting 1 series, but I want to see how this plays out. If it is simply a defacto merger with the Champ Car teams simply going to the IRL because of promised yen, then F'it, I'm done, but if they try to put some face of a 'merger' on, I'll get behind it.

[Chief]

One series may be attractive but not in the context that the IRL presents itself. Current day IRL is like sticking your finger down your own throat to puke. Not very palatable anyway you slice it.

[G.]

I cannot watch those cars. There's no purpose to them, other than altitude adjustment.

[cameraman]

I won't watch those cars period. If they get new cars AND they are designed where in an oval race the driver must, at bare minimum lift, but preferably brake going into the corners and I'll be interested. This stand on it from pit out until pit in is complete crap.

[Andrew Longman]

Without a turbo the sound will always be a reminder of what the series is not.

I have zero interst in watching racing as presented at cookie cutters such as Kansas and Chicago.

I have zero interest in watching them run flat out all the way around Milwaukee and Richmond

The cars are hard to look at.

They are piggish on road courses.

But

St Pete, WG and MO are good venues that can produce good racing with the right equipment.

RA needs to be on the schedule. Please.

If they get back to MIS or Fontana with a decent car that would be very good

If they add 8-10 cars on the grid, expecially for ovals that would be good

If owners and intelligent stakeholders get a voice about improving the series, and TG ffeels secure enough about his raced that he largely fades into the background I can deal.

[Insomniac]

I'd have to see what the outcome of the merger is. Those cars look and sound terrible. I can't watch it. They'd have the drivers/teams and the CART mix (he wants 5 of their races, but what about RA?). So, my impediment would be the cars and engines. I'm also assuming with a new car and engine, the racing won't be gas pedal on floor and turn on ovals. Otherwise, it just leaves F1. I'm OK with that too.

[Methanolandbrats]

No, not under any circumstances. The cars are junk, the motors are boat anchors, most of the tracks suck, the announcers are unbearable, everytime I see an Andretti I feel like puking and every single aspect of the series is a hollow shell of what it was before that sockcucker ruined it all. All it's gonna be is the same ****, but more of it.:yuck:

[nissan gtp]

I'm in the wait and see bunch. I'd prefer CC to thrive, but ....

[JLMannin]

Put me in the no column. When his grand-dad was in charge, I did not even realize that "indycars" raced anywhere else besides Indy. The CART era was fantastic and I enjoyed every race, especially Indy.

His stunt destroyed it all and I have no interest in the pethatic, rotting corpse that open wheel racing has become as a result of his actions.

For the sake of my future grandchildren, a merger is the only way to preserve any change of a reguvinated series.

[TrueBrit]

No, not under any circumstances. The cars are junk, the motors are boat anchors, most of the tracks suck, the announcers are unbearable, everytime I see an Andretti I feel like puking and every single aspect of the series is a hollow shell of what it was before that sockcucker ruined it all. All it's gonna be is the same ****, but more of it.:yuck:

Don't hold back...let it all out...tell us how you really feel....:D

[KLang]

'Absolutly not' simply isn't strong enough.

I'll have nothing to do with anything FTG is a part of. Never.

[SteveH]

No, not under any circumstances. The cars are junk, the motors are boat anchors, most of the tracks suck, the announcers are unbearable, everytime I see an Andretti I feel like puking and every single aspect of the series is a hollow shell of what it was before that sockcucker ruined it all. All it's gonna be is the same ****, but more of it.:yuck:

what he said, in spades

[jonovision_man]

Already watch it a bit... if ChampCar events, drivers, and influence enter the fold, I'd watch every race.

jono

[trish]

It depends. Will the racing still suck?

And having Champ Car drivers move over to the IRL might place their princess a little further back in the field. I might watch just for that.

[Methanolandbrats]

It depends. Will the racing still suck? .

Yes, but there will be more of it.


And having Champ Car drivers move over to the IRL might place their princess a little further back in the field. I might watch just for that. Helio will still run up front, he has one of the only decent cars. All the Champ Car field fillers will get old tubs and tired lumps.

[greenie]

It depends. Will the racing still suck?

And having Champ Car drivers move over to the IRL might place their princess a little further back in the field. I might watch just for that.

Nice post. :D

[Sean Malone]

A merger would probably spell the end of the princess. She'll go over to NASCAR and disappear after a month of hype. the end.

[gerhard911]

No, not under any circumstances. The cars are junk, the motors are boat anchors, most of the tracks suck, the announcers are unbearable, everytime I see an Andretti I feel like puking and every single aspect of the series is a hollow shell of what it was before that sockcucker ruined it all. All it's gonna be is the same ****, but more of it.:yuck:

What he said + I will support nothing in which TIG :tony: has a hand in running :yuck:

[Gnam]

A merger would probably spell the end of the princess.
What? No PT v. Danica boxing match? Well then how about a 33 car standing start at INDY? Mutoh flat out through the kink? Push To Fly? Option white wall tires? Andretti whine v. NHL whine? CATCH THE FEVER! :tony:

[pchall]

The IRL product is so bad all I could conceivably do is contine the Foyt Futility Watch... but without Champ Car as a foil to ol' AJ's inanities, what would be the point? As for becoming a fan of that stuff? I've got other hobbies and interests to pursue.

[doppelganger]

No, not under any circumstances. The cars are junk, the motors are boat anchors, most of the tracks suck, the announcers are unbearable, everytime I see an Andretti I feel like puking and every single aspect of the series is a hollow shell of what it was before that sockcucker ruined it all. All it's gonna be is the same ****, but more of it.:yuck:

I agree. No dollar of mine or minute of my time will be wasted on anything IRL related. There are better things around. It was fun while it lasted but it's time to move on.

[Indy]

I am indifferent now, so they will have to sell it to me.

I'll actually attend anything ALMS runs, so I could catch them at M-O or RA, and I will watch the rest on TV just to see how they are doing.

I would hope that there might be something worth being passionate about in ten years or so.

[trish]

You all know there's not going to be a merger, right? Just more of the same.

[Redwing]

Here's my solution to the open wheel problem:

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t9/Redwing7007/motor%20racing%202007/P1010602.jpg

[Redwing]

Come see this guy at Indy after the merger!!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t9/Redwing7007/motor%20racing%202007/ff60.jpg

[coolhand]

I am embarrassed to say I was an open wheel fan. :irked:

[formulaben]

It depends. Will the racing still suck?

And having Champ Car drivers move over to the IRL might place their princess a little further back in the field. I might watch just for that.

Can I change my answer? :D

[nrc]

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20070526/TGeorge_53259.jpg
I HAZ A VIZZIN

[Ziggy]

You have to be a complete retard

"Well, it's racin' ain't it" :gomer:

Enjoy the dronefest, tickets are easy to get

[mapguy]

Absolutely no way in hell.

[Methanolandbrats]

You have to be a complete retard

"Well, it's racin' ain't it" :gomer:

Enjoy the dronefest, tickets are easy to get:rofl: :rofl:

[Audi_A4]

they need to merge then after a season or 2 rethink the formula. having 2 seires is worse that running 1 with nasty cars for a couple of seasons. Name brand drivers, Name brand teams, name brand sponsors thats what a unified series needs, most importantly they need fans in the stands and on their couches watching tv.

[TippyGomez]

Newspaper article lying around in my PC room

World Record 212.766 time trial for Bobby U

COLLEGE STATION TEXAS - Bobby Unser, driving a car which was built for him in only five days, won the pole position for the championship car portion of the Texas Twin 200s Thursday with a sizzling lap of the two mile track of 212.766 mph

WORLDS RECORD
The speed was a new world's record for the closed course track and the run came only 15 days after Unser suffered a dislocated shoulder in a flaming 200mph crash at the Ontario Motor Speedway. It was this accident which forced Dan Gurney's All American Racers into an accelerated building program which produced an all new Olsonite Eagle for Unser in less than one week.

Unser almost missed out on qualifying. On the first of his two laps, he stopped at the pits with a manifold cover blown off his engine. Repairs were quickly made and after a few other drivers qualified, Unser went out and set the record of 33.84 seconds on his one remaining lap.

MECHANICAL TROUBLE

All in all, 25 drivers qualified, mechanical troubles idling the cars of Mike Hiss, Lloyd Ruby and Swede Savage. The average qualifying speed was 185.925 mph. The Unser run, along with eight other over 200 mph qualifying laps, thus made the 22 degree banked track the fastest speedway in the world.

Winning the outside front row starting spot was Gary Bettenhausen, who during his 209.790 mph run almost wore out the bottom of his cars nosepiece. The downward forces laid the Sunoco DX McLaren Offy against the track, grinding the fiberglass tissue thin.

The Viceroy Team of Mario Andretti and Al Unser reserved the second row with speeds of 209.607 and 209.120 mph.

Andretti, whose car was damaged eight days earlier in an accident while testing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, suffered rear suspension trouble early in the day and had to wait until Al qualified to use the rear suspension from his car.

ENGINES FAIL
AJ Foyt, whose predictions of doom over the 200 mph speeds made headlines in Houston and surrounding towns, qualified his new Foyt-engined Coyote on its third engine. After a 206.127 first lap, Foyt's engine erupted in a fireball of flame out the exhaust some 50 feet long, bringing the nearly 3000 Thursday fans to their feet. Foyt then sent the car back to his Houston shops for still another engine change.

Steve Krisiloff made the field in his Kingfist Offy, but with a cracked cylinder block. After the race the Thermo King Gerhardt Eagle driven by Mike Hiss, which missed qualifying due to a bent valve, joined the field after Krisiloff's owner, Grant King, sold the place to Gerhardt. The price was something between King's asking price of $3,000 and the last place payoff of $1,300.

Ruby, assigned Bruce Crowers 1968 Eagle, powered by a turbocharged Chevy, had the car withdrawn after a fuel diaphragm broke. Swede Savage made the field via the draw after his Patrick Racing Team Eagle blew it's second and last Offy engine. A deal was made with Dan Gurney to rent one of his engines for race day.

FEW ESCAPE TROUBLE
The high speeds resulting from sustained high engine revs and G loadings on the 22 degree banked turns took a tremendous toll in engines and equipment. A check of the garage area Friday morning revealed that only three cars suffered no trouble whatsoever, Lee Kunzman's Hopkins Eagle, champion Joe Leonard's Samsonite Parnelli and the MVS Eagle Foyt of Sam Sessions. These ailments ranged from blown engines to broken suspension parts, broken clutches and rear ends. Many engines burned pistons early in the practice session and at noon Thursday, after less than seven hours of practice, nine engines were down in the garage area. Fridays rain forced cancellation of all activity, the day was to have been devoted to Stock Car practice and qualifications.

Champ Car report - Texas 200, April 5, 1973

[jonovision_man]

they need to merge then after a season or 2 rethink the formula. having 2 seires is worse that running 1 with nasty cars for a couple of seasons. Name brand drivers, Name brand teams, name brand sponsors thats what a unified series needs, most importantly they need fans in
the stands and on their couches watching tv.

Agreed.

I can't remember the target season (2010 maybe?), but the IRL is already looking at a new formula. I would hope they could leverage the experience from the DP-01 and make a car that's much better than the current IRL car on road courses.

jono

[KLang]

I would hope they could leverage the experience from the DP-01 and make a car that's much better than the current IRL car on road courses.

Why do you think they would bother? It all about Indy to FTG and that crowd. None of the other races matter.

[JT265]

Absolutely no way in hell.


I pretty much have to follow him. /\/\/\ He has a map and everything!

[EDwardo]

As long as that wretched, genetically defective pinhead Hulman progeny is in any way involved,
categorically, conclusively, decidedly, decisively, unambiguously, unconditionally, unquestionably, utterly, emphatically, unmistakably,

NEVER

[Methanolandbrats]

Newspaper article lying around in my PC room

World Record 212.766 time trial for Bobby U

COLLEGE STATION TEXAS - Bobby Unser, driving a car which was built for him in only five days, won the pole position for the championship car portion of the Texas Twin 200s Thursday with a sizzling lap of the two mile track of 212.766 mph

WORLDS RECORD
The speed was a new world's record for the closed course track and the run came only 15 days after Unser suffered a dislocated shoulder in a flaming 200mph crash at the Ontario Motor Speedway. It was this accident which forced Dan Gurney's All American Racers into an accelerated building program which produced an all new Olsonite Eagle for Unser in less than one week.

Unser almost missed out on qualifying. On the first of his two laps, he stopped at the pits with a manifold cover blown off his engine. Repairs were quickly made and after a few other drivers qualified, Unser went out and set the record of 33.84 seconds on his one remaining lap.

MECHANICAL TROUBLE

All in all, 25 drivers qualified, mechanical troubles idling the cars of Mike Hiss, Lloyd Ruby and Swede Savage. The average qualifying speed was 185.925 mph. The Unser run, along with eight other over 200 mph qualifying laps, thus made the 22 degree banked track the fastest speedway in the world.

Winning the outside front row starting spot was Gary Bettenhausen, who during his 209.790 mph run almost wore out the bottom of his cars nosepiece. The downward forces laid the Sunoco DX McLaren Offy against the track, grinding the fiberglass tissue thin.

The Viceroy Team of Mario Andretti and Al Unser reserved the second row with speeds of 209.607 and 209.120 mph.

Andretti, whose car was damaged eight days earlier in an accident while testing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, suffered rear suspension trouble early in the day and had to wait until Al qualified to use the rear suspension from his car.

ENGINES FAIL
AJ Foyt, whose predictions of doom over the 200 mph speeds made headlines in Houston and surrounding towns, qualified his new Foyt-engined Coyote on its third engine. After a 206.127 first lap, Foyt's engine erupted in a fireball of flame out the exhaust some 50 feet long, bringing the nearly 3000 Thursday fans to their feet. Foyt then sent the car back to his Houston shops for still another engine change.

Steve Krisiloff made the field in his Kingfist Offy, but with a cracked cylinder block. After the race the Thermo King Gerhardt Eagle driven by Mike Hiss, which missed qualifying due to a bent valve, joined the field after Krisiloff's owner, Grant King, sold the place to Gerhardt. The price was something between King's asking price of $3,000 and the last place payoff of $1,300.

Ruby, assigned Bruce Crowers 1968 Eagle, powered by a turbocharged Chevy, had the car withdrawn after a fuel diaphragm broke. Swede Savage made the field via the draw after his Patrick Racing Team Eagle blew it's second and last Offy engine. A deal was made with Dan Gurney to rent one of his engines for race day.

FEW ESCAPE TROUBLE
The high speeds resulting from sustained high engine revs and G loadings on the 22 degree banked turns took a tremendous toll in engines and equipment. A check of the garage area Friday morning revealed that only three cars suffered no trouble whatsoever, Lee Kunzman's Hopkins Eagle, champion Joe Leonard's Samsonite Parnelli and the MVS Eagle Foyt of Sam Sessions. These ailments ranged from blown engines to broken suspension parts, broken clutches and rear ends. Many engines burned pistons early in the practice session and at noon Thursday, after less than seven hours of practice, nine engines were down in the garage area. Fridays rain forced cancellation of all activity, the day was to have been devoted to Stock Car practice and qualifications.

Champ Car report - Texas 200, April 5, 1973

Damn, a flashback to when there was actual motorsports :(

[jonovision_man]

It's interesting that most of the posts on this thread are from the "no way in hell crowd", yet the actual poll suggests 2/3 would at least give it a chance or already know they would be a fan.

jono

[Methanolandbrats]

It's interesting that most of the posts on this thread are from the "no way in hell crowd", yet the actual poll suggests 2/3 would at least give it a chance or already know they would be a fan.

jono
An f'n groundswell of fans....I guess that means when you buy your IRL season tickets you'll have to stand in line at the bathroom.

[jonovision_man]

An f'n groundswell of fans....I guess that means when you buy your IRL season tickets you'll have to stand in line at the bathroom.

I went to the bathroom at the Indy 500... they pee into troughs... never heard of a urinal? ;) All very European.

jono

[Methanolandbrats]

I went to the bathroom at the Indy 500... they pee into troughs... never heard of a urinal? ;) All very European.

jono I know, I peed there during the F1 Race. There was an on-site Foster's bottling plant directly below the troughs.

[nrc]

It's interesting that most of the posts on this thread are from the "no way in hell crowd", yet the actual poll suggests 2/3 would at least give it a chance or already know they would be a fan.

jono

Not really. "It depends on what aspects merge" doesn't mean "I'll give it a chance". Most probably already have criteria in mind that would preclude following the series - Tony George in charge, crapwagons, etc.

[STD]

You have to be a complete retard

"Well, it's racin' ain't it" :gomer:

Enjoy the dronefest, tickets are easy to get

For once I totally agree.

Guano is still guano no matter the effort or what favored frosting is spun on it.

Ain't watching that real racin' from Daytoner today either.

[Cam]

I know, I peed there during the F1 Race. There was an on-site Foster's bottling plant directly below the troughs.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jonovision_man]

I know, I peed there during the F1 Race. There was an on-site Foster's bottling plant directly below the troughs.

Nice. :) :laugh:

When I went to the USGP they didn't have doors on the stalls, either. :eek: That was ... weird.

jono

[Cam]

Nice. :) :laugh:

When I went to the USGP they didn't have doors on the stalls, either. :eek: That was ... weird.

jono

Gomers stoled them all to replace the ones they punched out in their double wides.

[Methanolandbrats]

Gomers stoled them all to replace the ones they punched out in their double wides.One of them doors and some 4x4 scraps and ya got a nice durable dining room table.:thumbup:

[Cam]

One of them doors and some 4x4 scraps and ya got a nice durable dining room table.:thumbup:

Cinder block be more sturdy. ;)

[EDwardo]

It's interesting that most of the posts on this thread are from the "no way in hell crowd", yet the actual poll suggests 2/3 would at least give it a chance or already know they would be a fan.

jono

Perhaps those that are converted or at least considering it are aware that this forum is still for "champcar enthusiasts" and are reluctant to make a post.

[greenie]

Perhaps those that are converted or at least considering it are aware that this forum is still for "champcar enthusiasts" and are reluctant to make a post.

Or perhaps they read the poll and voted in a logical manner that is perfectly consistent with the anti-IRL sentiment that they have.

If a merged series involves getting rid of the IRL buggies, adding DP01s w/turbos and incorporates the major Champ Car races then I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Gee, a series that looks identical to CART in the early 90s being preferable to the BS status quo? Kind of a no brainer IMO.

Champ Car now is piss poor. It's so rock bottom bad that some of the races aren't even going to be televised. What's the point of a series that you really can't follow even if you want to?

[jonovision_man]

Or perhaps they read the poll and voted in a logical manner that is perfectly consistent with the anti-IRL sentiment that they have.

If a merged series involves getting rid of the IRL buggies, adding DP01s w/turbos and incorporates the major Champ Car races then I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Gee, a series that looks identical to CART in the early 90s being preferable to the BS status quo? Kind of a no brainer IMO.


But that's really not in the realm of possibility.

Reality: IRL spec chassis & probably engines for at least 2-3 years while they work on a new formula, racing probably 2/3 or more of the current IRL schedule and 4-5 races from ChampCar. I think that's the best we can hope for right now, KK/GF aren't negotiating from a position of strength.

jono

[trish]

Or perhaps they read the poll and voted in a logical manner that is perfectly consistent with the anti-IRL sentiment that they have.

If a merged series involves getting rid of the IRL buggies, adding DP01s w/turbos and incorporates the major Champ Car races then I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. Gee, a series that looks identical to CART in the early 90s being preferable to the BS status quo? Kind of a no brainer IMO.

Champ Car now is piss poor. It's so rock bottom bad that some of the races aren't even going to be televised. What's the point of a series that you really can't follow even if you want to?


But that's really not in the realm of possibility.

Reality: IRL spec chassis & probably engines for at least 2-3 years while they work on a new formula, racing probably 2/3 or more of the current IRL schedule and 4-5 races from ChampCar. I think that's the best we can hope for right now, KK/GF aren't negotiating from a position of strength.

jono

For me, it will first depend on the new formula being exceptional and next on the mix of ovals versus other race courses on the schedule.

[jonovision_man]

For me, it will first depend on the new formula being exceptional and next on the mix of ovals versus other race courses on the schedule.

New formula - agree 100%.

Schedule - RM said "Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Mexico City and Australia" would be added. IRL currently has 4 road/street races. That would make 9 road/street races from day 1, assuming no deletions, assuming RM is correct.

And the trend in both series has been to dump ovals and add road/street races. ChampCar dumped all of the ovals, IRL has been dumping them one by one.

So I think the schedule would shake out as pretty decent.

jono

[trish]

New formula - agree 100%.

Schedule - RM said "Long Beach, Toronto, Edmonton, Mexico City and Australia" would be added. IRL currently has 4 road/street races. That would make 9 road/street races from day 1, assuming no deletions, assuming RM is correct.

And the trend in both series has been to dump ovals and add road/street races. ChampCar dumped all of the ovals, IRL has been dumping them one by one.

So I think the schedule would shake out as pretty decent.

jonoIf ovals are being dumped, I won't be watching in any case.

[jonovision_man]

I don't mean dumped entirely, probably 50/50.

jono

[RusH]

They have to change that crapbox before 2011. I can`t ever competely give up my hater card without a new formula.

[trish]

Another merger story (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/open-wheel-peace-at-hand/)

[Sean Malone]

Another merger story (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/open-wheel-peace-at-hand/)

So the DP01's is sold off to club racers and what about Cosworth? Hopefully there will be a way to use both in the future. So, where is the "merger" in this merger?

[trish]

I have a feeling they are going to end up using the current Champ Car in a year or two.

[trish]

Anyone see a rumor on TF about NHL wind tunnel testing the Champ Car car in super speedway trim? I haven't, but heard about it elsewhere.

Edit: Elsewhere being another forum.

[Insomniac]

Is anyone thinking more about this now that it may be a real possibility. Leaving TG out of the equation for now, I see:

Pros:
One series (more cars!)
CART mix of races
All the drivers together
I think we'd get all races fully televised ;)

Cons:
Crapwagons and boat anchor engines
Losing some classic tracks like RA, LS, Cleveland and Toronto)

I had said before I wouldn't watch unless the formula was more like CC (better looking cars and turbos (or very high rev NA)). Now that it might happen, I don't know if I'll be able to resist. I may have to tune in to the first races now. Anyone else feel this way?

[trish]

Is anyone thinking more about this now that it may be a real possibility. Leaving TG out of the equation for now, I see:

Pros:
One series (more cars!)
CART mix of races
All the drivers together
I think we'd get all races fully televised ;)

Cons:
Crapwagons and boat anchor engines
Losing some classic tracks like RA, LS, Cleveland and Toronto)

I had said before I wouldn't watch unless the formula was more like CC (better looking cars and turbos (or very high rev NA)). Now that it might happen, I don't know if I'll be able to resist. I may have to tune in to the first races now. Anyone else feel this way?The racing is still going to suck until they do something about the car. Until they do, I can only see myself watching the 500. I watched it when PT won his first and that was fun. So having drivers that I can route for will be a help in sitting through the whole thing again. I'll peek in on the other races, but will probably give precedence to NASCAR and Formula One.

[Kahauna Dreamer]

basic answer: Oh hell no

[Gnam]

I will not be following this vision.

[formulaben]

perhaps; depends on the future formula

[FTG]

I won't watch crapwagons. If I can afford it, I think I'll try to get my racing license.

[Methanolandbrats]

We are witnessing the birth of open-wheel GrandAm. WGAF.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I won't watch crapwagons. If I can afford it, I think I'll try to get my racing license.

Which will, ironically enough, give you an actual appreciation for cost-contained racing formulas. :laugh:

[nrc]

I appreciate cost contained put-put golf. Doesn't mean that I want to watch anyone else doing it.

http://www.metcalfefair.com/PG5-lawn-3734.JPG

[FTG]

Which will, ironically enough, give you an actual appreciation for cost-contained racing formulas. :laugh:

We've all banged ugly women, but even if you're incredibly drunk, there's still no excuse for watching ugly cars. (There's no reason to dodge cones in a parking lot either. If you can't afford a real race car, this is the way to go.)

http://www.tsracing.com/Products/Karts/VeloceCRSTop.jpg

[Sean O'Gorman]

Almost every kart racer I know is a douchebag. Karts are fun, but I'll pass.

[nissan gtp]

perhaps; depends on the future formula

exactly :thumbup:

[mueber]

I think this is necessary because I've reached the point of not caring about Champ Car anymore, but I can't bring myself to do business with Tony George; I'd feel like a hypocrite.

At best, I think I'll let is sit for a couple, or a few, years and reconsider if Boy George suprises me.

[Napoleon]

No!

[Brickman]

"I'll wait to see what aspects they actually merge" is fair enough. Although that may take 2 years.

[Cam]

The way it is looking now it is an even more F'd up mess than before. RIP AOWR... :(