Should jonovision_man be banned?

[jonovision_man]

I received this, and would like your opinions. I will respect the will of the majority. :) Assuming nrc/RaceGrrl allow this poll to be posted.


You've been placed on moderated status at least temporarily. Your posts will have to be approved by a moderator before they appear on the forum.

We appreciate your contributions over the years and we've accepted your "fence sitter" status since you've followed the rules. You can criticize Champ car management if you like, we all do. But when you combine that criticism with advocating Tony George as fit to run open wheel and denying such obvious facts as Honda's role in helping to prop up his series we're not sure if your contributions are really appropriate for the Champ car forum any longer.

We are considering this and we'll let you know what we decide as far as your permanent status here.

jono

[RaceGrrl]

Since you have seen fit to break the cardinal rule of internet posting etiquette, I'm taking off my moderator hat and being dead honest.

Yes. You should leave. You obviously have zero respect for the other members of this site. We are not fools. We do not appreciate being treated as such and can see right through your attempts to tell us that the emperor is wearing clothes. On top of that nonsense, you've taken a private communication and attempted to make it public and stir up trouble. I have no interest, as a member, in reading anything else you post.

[Spicoli]

huh?


can you please splain wah happen?:confused:

[Insomniac]

This isn't my decision, and I won't be voting. But, I do have one question.


denying such obvious facts as Honda's role in helping to prop up his series

I don't know if there was more to this or not, but I don't think TG needs Honda to keep the IRL alive. He'd just buy an engine builder and find a badge (like CC did). He still has Indy and should be able to find someone to badge pretty easily. They do help keep the costs from TG's pockets down though. Honda does get some return on their investment. I mean, let's face it, they have better management than the IRL and CC and aren't there to lose money. ;)

[nrc]

The poll has been deleted because it's not up for a vote. We have permitted the posting because we always appreciate hearing the opinions of our users. However, this is not a democracy and there won't be any counting of votes.

This is a forum for Champ car enthusiasts which we run for our own entertainment and that of our fellow Champ car enthusiasts. We have always permitted criticism of Champ car management. That has not and will not change. Champ car fans have been criticizing Champ car management since long before the IRL was a gleam in Tony George's lazy eye.

Part of what we respect about Champ car fans is that they have always had high expectations for their sport and they have never been shy about expressing that. Nobody is denying that these are dark days for Champ car and we have never moderated anyone simply for saying so.

Jono has always been a bit of an exception here because he has ridden the fence pretty openly. We've permitted his participation here because his contributions have been worthwhile and he has normally been respectful of the fact that this is a Champ car forum.

We have never permitted people to come here and advocate for Tony George or his series and we are not going to start now. I'm not going to waste my time on my own forum rebutting someone who claims that Tony George is fit to run open wheel racing or that Honda hasn't been pouring money into the IRL.

I'm not sure what has led Jono to think that kind of stuff is appropriate for Off Camber. At any time in the past it would have been identified as trolling. Maybe he's been emboldened by what he sees as the "end game." Maybe he thinks he's just helping us with the inevitable process of morphing into an Indy Car forum. I can tell you that won't happen - at least not on our dime.

Jono has not been banned. He has been placed on moderated status. That means that his posts have to be approved by a moderator before they are posted for the public. The intent of this is to prevent what at any other time would have been seen as trolling and to allow the discussion to be led by Champ car fans.

As we said in our message to Jono, this is preliminary and we'll decide from here how to handle it going forward.

[Sean Malone]

I feel compelled to comment as I have agreed with quite a bit of what jono has posted recently. I do believe that one series would be best for the sport but I don’t trust TG and despise him and most of the team owners. At least there would be someone to hate if there was one series.

I’m also very guilty of vocalizing my displeasure of the Champ Car brass. They’re a joke and I think all except the very delusional at CCF disagree. I thought that OC was about truth, justice and the non fanatical way.
I’d hate to see things mimic CCF, where you have to start every post with “I hate Tony George but…” or else you are banned.

I think bannings should be reserved for blatant abuse and disrespect of the forum rules. It could be that this has occurred without me knowing, but from what I’ve seen jono just has a different opinion as the rest of us. He’s like brickman with a brain. If it wasn’t for jono we’d probably all agree with each other. At least he provides a debate.
But there is probably more to the story than I know. Just my 2cents.

Oh, but it wasn’t right to bring this public on jono’s part and a temp ban from the CC forum (or even a temp ban from OC) would be appropriate IMO.

P.S – I wrote this before nrc’s post. Which makes much of it moot. And he writes better than I do too.

[Insomniac]

I'm not sure what has led Jono to think that kind of stuff is appropriate for Off Camber. At any time in the past it would have been identified as trolling. Maybe he's been emboldened by what he sees as the "end game." Maybe he thinks he's just helping us with the inevitable process of morphing into an Indy Car forum. I can tell you that won't happen - at least not on our dime.

I guess it all seemed like a discussion (given the civility) to me rather than trolling. But now that you say it, I do see where you're coming from. I guess it's a reflection of the terrible state of CC today. This seems like the first time that the IRL looks better than CC (NOTE: their cars are crap and TG still is the reason for this mess, but ignoring that, the IRL looks healthier and many of us feel a sense of hopelessness with CC). Last year we had the DP01 to look forward to at this time.

[RusH]

#1, posting this for all to see was pretty lame
#2, on the other hand, he would be banned without warning at CCCF
#3 many of us feel like bolting CC lately, but when I do, nobody will notice here. Low profile deserters are the coolest :gomer:
#4 Leave if you are are past the depression stage of CC`s condition ;)

here are the stages of grief

* Denial (this isn't happening to me!)
* Anger (why is this happening to me?)
* Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)
* Depression (I don't care anymore)
* Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)

[SteveH]

#1, posting this for all to see was pretty lame

ditto

[Methanolandbrats]

We have never permitted people to come here and advocate for Tony George or his series and we are not going to start now. I'm not going to waste my time on my own forum rebutting someone who claims that Tony George is fit to run open wheel racing or that Honda hasn't been pouring money into the IRL.


That's it in a nutshell, so bye bye :wave:

[JT265]

ditto

Indeed. To be fair, however, that fencepost has to be somewhat hard on Jono's ass. And in fact could affect one's critical thinking. :p

[Gnam]

Off Camber's relaxed atmosphere is so comfortable you can forget you are a guest. When you're reminded of that fact, it comes across as heavy handed moderation. But that's only because such reminders are rare. Our hosts treat us with respect, and they deserve nothing less. [/dr.phil]



[goodfellas]
jono_ likes Off Camber and meant no disrespect.

Off Camber likes jono_, and him being here is good. He would do us a great favor by not bringing some things when he visits. Will he do us this favor?


[full metal jacket]
Off Camber: Private jono_, do you believe FTG is fit to run open wheel racing?
Private jono_: Sir, yes sir!
Off Camber: Well Private jono_, I don't believe I heard you correctly!
Private jono_: Sir, the private said "yes sir," sir!
Off Camber: Why you little maggot, you make me want to vomit! [Slaps jono_] You goddamned fencesitting gomer heathen, you had best sound off that you agree Honda's pouring money into Indy, or I'm gonna stomp your guts out! Now you DO agree Honda's propping up the IRL, don't you?!
Private jono_: Sir, negative, sir!!
Off Camber: Private jono_, are you trying to offend me?!
Private jono_: Sir, negative, sir!!! Sir, the private believes that any answer he gives will be wrong! And the Senior Drill Instructor will beat him harder if he reverses himself, sir!
Off Camber: Private jono_ is silly and ignorant, but he's got guts. And guts is enough.


[scent of fencesitter]
Now here's jono_. He's come to the crossroads. He has chosen a path. It's the fencesitter's path. It's a path made of principle -- that leads to splinters. Let him continue on his journey.

You hold this member's future in your hands, Off Camber. It's a valuable future. Believe me. Don't destroy it! Protect it. Embrace it. It's gonna make ya proud one day -- I promise you.

[jonovision_man]

The poll has been deleted because it's not up for a vote.

OK... I was a little curious which way this one would go, though!


I'm not sure what has led Jono to think that kind of stuff is appropriate for Off Camber. At any time in the past it would have been identified as trolling. Maybe he's been emboldened by what he sees as the "end game."

Trolling... I have 2,338 posts on this board, I've talked about ChampCar, I've talked about the IRL, I've talked about F1, and in every case I've given my exact opinion. And now, on my 2,336th post, I'm accused of being a troll. :shakehead

You know what has changed? ChampCar. I used to hold out hope that it would be turned around, the introduction of the DP01 and the promise of 20+ car grids was supposed to be the start of something special. It wasn't, nothing changed, and now it's clear that this is not a viable series or a viable situation.

Am I alone here? Absolutely not. A lot of people see the writing on the wall. It's not about being "emboldened", it's about recognizing the reality of the situation, being pretty damn bummed about it, and looking for what's next. Maybe some see that future in two separate series like Tony did all those years ago, but I don't, and if you look at some of the poll results on the forums here a lot of other people don't either.


Jono has not been banned. He has been placed on moderated status. That means that his posts have to be approved by a moderator before they are posted for the public. The intent of this is to prevent what at any other time would have been seen as trolling and to allow the discussion to be led by Champ car fans.


I see, so now my difference of opinion on the future means I'm not a Champ Car fan? It's not enough that I go to the races and watch them on TV, that I hang off of every news release to see what's going on. I also have to hate Tony George and toe the party line?

I thought OC was different.


As we said in our message to Jono, this is preliminary and we'll decide from here how to handle it going forward.

You might as well make it permanent, I'm not interested in posting on a forum where I will be silenced for not having the "right" opinion.

I never ever thought OC would be a place I would be silenced for my opinion... shouted down by others, sure, mocked, yup. :) I can deal with that. But not being silenced.

I'll miss the posters, there's a lot of great race fans on this board with a lot of knowledge and passion. For that reason I hope you reconsider, but if not then good-bye all. :thumbup:

jono

[Don Quixote]

I think most of us came to this forum to get away from what 7G became. So I applaud the mods efforts to keep the same thing from happening here. Nobody is saying you can't question or criticize or bemoan the antics of champcar drivers, owners, management. I bet every poster here has done that in the past 2 years. But advocating for the idiot grandson does cross the line, and I don't want to hear it. There are other forums where that is permitted and encouraged. Doing so here is very unlikely to change anybody's mind. Having a 7G pissing contest is not my idea of fun, at least not on this forum. If I had a vote, and I don't, I would say that Jono can stay, but leave the pro TG stuff at the door. It is flat out wrong-headed and incendiary to this forum. My 2 pennies.

[KLang]

This should have been left private. :thumdown:

[Indy]

I would hate to see this place become anything like CCF has become. Not that it is even close, but you know what I am saying. Surely we can discuss things openly on this forum without the weight of self-censorship each time we post.

[Kahauna Dreamer]

OK... I was a little curious which way this one would go, though!



Trolling... I have 2,338 posts on this board, I've talked about ChampCar, I've talked about the IRL, I've talked about F1, and in every case I've given my exact opinion. And now, on my 2,336th post, I'm accused of being a troll. :shakehead

You know what has changed? ChampCar. I used to hold out hope that it would be turned around, the introduction of the DP01 and the promise of 20+ car grids was supposed to be the start of something special. It wasn't, nothing changed, and now it's clear that this is not a viable series or a viable situation.

Am I alone here? Absolutely not. A lot of people see the writing on the wall. It's not about being "emboldened", it's about recognizing the reality of the situation, being pretty damn bummed about it, and looking for what's next. Maybe some see that future in two separate series like Tony did all those years ago, but I don't, and if you look at some of the poll results on the forums here a lot of other people don't either.



I see, so now my difference of opinion on the future means I'm not a Champ Car fan? It's not enough that I go to the races and watch them on TV, that I hang off of every news release to see what's going on. I also have to hate Tony George and toe the party line?

I thought OC was different.



You might as well make it permanent, I'm not interested in posting on a forum where I will be silenced for not having the "right" opinion.

I never ever thought OC would be a place I would be silenced for my opinion... shouted down by others, sure, mocked, yup. :) I can deal with that. But not being silenced.

I'll miss the posters, there's a lot of great race fans on this board with a lot of knowledge and passion. For that reason I hope you reconsider, but if not then good-bye all. :thumbup:

jono

Please check your private messages.

[jonovision_man]

This should have been left private. :thumdown:

OK let's clear something up - yes, I posted something sent to me in private, but I did so while my status was moderated. It was up to the mods to put it up or not, they chose to. I applaud them for that.

I think the community should know what is being moderated. I've moderated several other forums in the past, we spoke privately about matters but our decisions to moderate were always done publicly.

Finally, I absolutely respect nrc and Racegrrl's right to control this forum in the way they see fit. I don't pay a nickel to post here, most of us don't. It's not a right, it's a privilege, and I've enjoyed my time here.

I'm not going to change my opinions just for that privilege. Perhaps I viewed OC as being a bit more open to other opinions than it is, and if so then my time here will draw to a close. And that's OK.

jono

[DagoFast]

Should it have been left private? Yes.
Can Jono be a pain? Yes. But who isn't at some point?
Did Sean's little gem "He’s like brickman with a brain." make me chuckle? Yes! :D
Has this thread otherwise been almost as much fun as a DP01 race without rain? Close.
And finally, just FYI, I never vote in any poll that does not have "F#@% Spicoli" as an option.

[Cam]

Should it have been left private? Yes.
Can Jono be a pain? Yes. But who isn't at some point?
Did Sean's little gem "He’s like brickman with a brain." make me chuckle? Yes! :D
Has this thread otherwise been almost as much fun as a DP01 race without rain? Close.
And finally, just FYI, I never vote in any poll that does not have "F#@% Spicoli" as an option.

Thank you very little...

[G.]

OC forum moderation is something I liken to the manufacture of hot dogs - I don't wanna know what goes into it.

Jono, some of your posts lately have IMO, contained quite a bit of glee and excitement at the current state of CCWS ef-ups. And some strange conclusions (ie., Honda makes money in the earl?!? WTF?).

Your contributions here are no less valuable than anyone else's, but your tone seems to have changed to something that shouldn't be here, IMO.

Check it at the door, take your minor lump, and continue to tells us about the earl races - we don't get to watch them much.:)

[Brickman]

Should it have been left private? Yes.
Can Jono be a pain? Yes. But who isn't at some point?
Did Sean's little gem "He’s like brickman with a brain." make me chuckle? Yes! :D
Has this thread otherwise been almost as much fun as a DP01 race without rain? Close.
And finally, just FYI, I never vote in any poll that does not have "F#@% Spicoli" as an option.

I thought that was cute too. :p

Litmus testing?

The IRL needs Honda more than CC needed Ford.
Tony George truthfully can't run open wheel better than CART or CC, but he will be around after both are gone.
Whereas Craig flushed CART in one fell swoop, the Amigos are flushing CC with the efficency of a Toto Toilet. {no paper clogs}
The Indy 500 needs a healthy open wheel, and open wheel needs a healthy Indy 500. Both are screwed.
Trying to sell out to TG for 100 million and selling out to TG are not the same thing. Not.

;)

[jonovision_man]

OC forum moderation is something I liken to the manufacture of hot dogs - I don't wanna know what goes into it.

Jono, some of your posts lately have IMO, contained quite a bit of glee and excitement at the current state of CCWS ef-ups. And some strange conclusions (ie., Honda makes money in the earl?!? WTF?).

I've said the thing about Honda here before, it's nothing new coming from me.

This is the exact quote from me on that thread:


I'll put it another way... when the IRL first landed Honda and Toyota, both dumped whack-loads of money into teams so they could (a) attract them to the IRL, and (b) win. The costs drove Chevy out, then Toyota... and Honda was left alone, with no reason to continue dumping money into the teams. Instead, the teams now pay Honda for engines. And who keeps the engine price low? That's not Honda's buck, it's Tony.

Can someone please tell me how exactly this is pro-IRL "lemming" talk, I really want to know. Because from where I sit, this was a criticism of Tony, suggesting he's put his series in such a bad position that a former cash cow has turned into a cost for the series.

:confused:

I don't know where you construe glee from. I would be happy to see it all come to a head and the sooner than happens the better. As I've said on many a thread, I hope they save as much about ChampCar as they can in the process, rather than drive it into the ground and have nothing left.


Your contributions here are no less valuable than anyone else's, but your tone seems to have changed to something that shouldn't be here, IMO.

Check it at the door, take your minor lump, and continue to tells us about the earl races - we don't get to watch them much.:)

It's quite clearly not welcome here, especially if there's anything positive to say.

jono

[dando]

I'm not much for banning peeps for voicing their opinions (despite how stupid they might be). However, I am in favor of public floggings for anyone supporting FTG. :tony:

I think we do a pretty good job of policing our own around here...with the exception of Zanardi Fan's meltdown a few years ago. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

I've said the thing about Honda here before, it's nothing new coming from me.

This is the exact quote from me on that thread:



Can someone please tell me how exactly this is pro-IRL "lemming" talk, I really want to know. Because from where I sit, this was a criticism of Tony, suggesting he's put his series in such a bad position that a former cash cow has turned into a cost for the series.

:confused:

I don't know where you construe glee from. I would be happy to see it all come to a head and the sooner than happens the better. As I've said on many a thread, I hope they save as much about ChampCar as they can in the process, rather than drive it into the ground and have nothing left.



It's quite clearly not welcome here, especially if there's anything positive to say.

jonoYou're STILL doing it :shakehead

[nrc]

Jono, we're not really going to go into a debate on the details of what you've posted.

You know very well that there have always been positions that are not welcome on this forum. I don't believe that you've trod that line for five years by accident.

I also don't believe that the change in the tone and content of your posts of late has been a figment of our imagination. The feedback we've gotten has confirmed that.

Everyone here is subject to our moderation. Sorry if that shatters any illusions. Putting you on moderated status was intended as a warning and a cooling off period. We made it clear when we informed you that it was under consideration. Your reaction has been as surprising and disappointing to us as you say the action was to you.

[Ziggy]

Posting PM's is just flat wrong, as if divulging any information of a personal nature.

Jono has always come across as a Lemming as far as Im concerned, that makes what he has done par for the course.

I will miss him like an all night dentist :p

[coolhand]

This forum is moderated? :saywhat:

[cameraman]

This forum is moderated? :saywhat:

Post your personal opinion of Hillary Clinton and find out:laugh:

[mapguy]

If it was me, he'd have been booted oot long ago. I try sooooo hard to ignore his posts as it seems that every single CART/irl post is a needle to try to get a rise oot of the ChampCar fan. Every time.

Another reason. Anyone who names themselves after one of the lamest show on Canadian TV deserves a life long ban. That show makes "The Beachcombers" look like Cheer's or ER in comparison. (I know JT will be offended at that one as he is a big Bruno Gerussi fan).

[mapguy]

Post your personal opinion of Hillary Clinton and find out:laugh:

Or my amazing Ford Escort.

[Sean Malone]

Should it have been left private? Yes.
Can Jono be a pain? Yes. But who isn't at some point?
Did Sean's little gem "He’s like brickman with a brain." make me chuckle? Yes! :D
Has this thread otherwise been almost as much fun as a DP01 race without rain? Close.
And finally, just FYI, I never vote in any poll that does not have "F#@% Spicoli" as an option.

And just to clarify, that was said in humor. Brick is a levelheaded fella who I'm sure I would enjoy benchracing over a cold one at the local watering hole.

:thumbup:

[JT265]

If it was me, he'd have been booted oot long ago. I try sooooo hard to ignore his posts as it seems that every single CART/irl post is a needle to try to get a rise oot of the ChampCar fan. Every time.

Another reason. Anyone who names themselves after one of the lamest show on Canadian TV deserves a life long ban. That show makes "The Beachcombers" look like Cheer's or ER in comparison. (I know JT will be offended at that one as he is a big Bruno Gerussi fan).

I'm cool. I was more a Relic type myself. :laugh:

[Andrew Longman]

This forum is moderated? :saywhat:

I wanted to stay out of this for several days, but cool posted I think the most observant and salient point.

I have hung here as much as anybody and while I have not always agreed with Jono, one thing a never got a glimps of is any of the animosity for Jono (or anyone) I am seeing now. We've never attacked anyone and the Boss never had to tell us not to.

Jono went public with and that's touching the third rail. I'd let it go as a reaction to the possibility of being rejected by a valued community... one time.

As for the content of Jono's messages, I will not defend him but I want to make sure I am clear on one thing:

IMO, saying TG is fit to head OW racing should be met with a simple, "You're wrong" or just be ignored. There is little to add to that conversation.

But I also think there is a big difference between saying that and saying it might be inevitable that TG takes over and wonder how that, in the best possible world, could turn out for a sport we care about. Since that may well be where we're headed, I hope we can talk about how to make that suck less.

Unless it is just agreed we are all walking away to do something else the day CC closes.

(and Boss, you're right. Your forum, your rules. Just giving my feedback)

[nrc]

I have hung here as much as anybody and while I have not always agreed with Jono, one thing a never got a glimps of is any of the animosity for Jono (or anyone) I am seeing now. We've never attacked anyone and the Boss never had to tell us not to.

We don't have any animousity toward Jono. This was purely an action based on what we felt was right for the forum. I'm disappointed at his response but everyone handles things differently.


IMO, saying TG is fit to head OW racing should be met with a simple, "You're wrong" or just be ignored. There is little to add to that conversation.

Unfortunately it does not end there. It inevitably becomes an endless round of "is not," "is too." How many people do you allow to represent that view? How often are they allowed to start that cycle over again? When does it make this an unpleasant place for Champ car fans? The last question is the important one from our perspective.

We've always had to draw the line somewhere. We feel that Jono was crossing the line, he feels like we've moved it.


But I also think there is a big difference between saying that and saying it might be inevitable that TG takes over and wonder how that, in the best possible world, could turn out for a sport we care about. Since that may well be where we're headed, I hope we can talk about how to make that suck less.

Unless it is just agreed we are all walking away to do something else the day CC closes.

We're not preventing people from discussing "what if." But we're not providing a forum for people to argue that Tony George controlling open wheel racing would be a good thing. There's a difference between that and "OK, I'll eat the can of worms because it's the only thing there is left to eat." That's a hard call to make sometimes because some are more apt to eat worms than others. Not everyone will agree when we make it and we accept that.

[Indy]

I think that the negative reaction some of us have had is that this place is where one comes for rational discussion. When you exclude a point of view, then you can throw rationality out the window and begin arguing dogma. The members here are too intelligent for that. I say the grounds for dismissal from the forum should be less about the contentions made and more about contentiousness in general.

Just my opinion.

[Andrew Longman]

When does it make this an unpleasant place for Champ car fans?

First off, Boss, I like the way you've given transparency to the discussion. No it is not a vote, but you openly accept discussion on the point.

I think your comment is very much to the point. Folks here are fans, but not fanatics. We see the warts but have enough balance in our lives (well some of us) to keep a perspective and enjoy sharing it. I think that's what make this a pleasant place.

Again your court, your rules and I am not speaking for anyone but myself, but it is a bit jarring to have someone removed from the community. But then perhaps it is no different from the Super Bowl party some Spicoli like creature will be attending in a few hours who has too much to drink and has to be told to quiet down or even shown the door. Its unpleasant and puts everyone off... for a few minutes. :D

[EDwardo]

... it is a bit jarring to have someone removed from the community.....

I went back and reread all the posts in this thread. The Boss hasn't banned or removed Jono. Jono was only put on moderated probation. Jono has suggested that he is considering leaving but that will be his choice. I hope he decides to stay.

[nrc]

Edwardo is correct. We have not removed Jono as demonstrated by his posts in this thread.

[Ziggy]

I need a tissue :cry:

[cart7]

Jonovision is the name of a Canadian TV show? :saywhat:

I've seen enough of Jono's TF posts to know he's definitely a leaner towards CCWS. I've also never seen a post over there where he's ever advocated that OW racing would be better off in TG's hands.

Merged yes, but any growth or development of OW racing would have to come from within that merged series and it's doubtful any of it would be generated by Lord Tony.

There were alot of us hopeful in 2004. This ownership group laid a good foundation to succeed. Then they ran out of ideas. It seems almost inevitable that this hobby series will run only as long as the owners wish to keep pumping money into it. It's also inevitable that when that end day comes, the vast majority of participants in this series will move to the other side, if not sooner.

Discussing how OW could somehow rebuild itself within a series owned by TG seems to be a legitimate discussion. Advocating the wholesale dismantling of CCWS in order to move to the earl to make that happen sooner seems more wishful thinking, that somehow everyone on one side over there could build OW back into what we all remember it being. It seems to all be legitimate topics given the general direction of this series, especially the past 2 years.

I personally don't have a problem with jono or his posts. As I said, in earl land he's considered a CCWS fan.

[Warlock!]

I need a tissue :cry:
Why? Didja finally get into that one website I was telling you about?

:D

[Methanolandbrats]

Why? Didja finally get into that one website I was telling you about?

:D:laugh:

[JT265]

Why? Didja finally get into that one website I was telling you about?

:D

Can't speak for Ziggy, but I did. :eek: Thanks mang!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Ankf00]

who knew there could be this much drama on a male dominated bbs? :D

[RHR_Fan]

who knew there could be this much drama on a male dominated bbs? :D

Sexist pig. :gomer:

[dando]

Sexist pig. :gomer:

Token female member. :p

-Kevin

[Audi_A4]

Guys, I actually agree with Jono I dont see what he did was so wrong. He has been an active contributor to the forum. Expressing opinion got him in trouble, everyone has their own opinions some times people agree sometimes not.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Yeah, its not like he posted porn or anything.

[Cam]

Yeah, its not like he posted porn or anything.

Shut up O'Gorman! :flame: :flame: :D

[Dirk Diggler]

When you get too fed up with it all, take a year or so away from the boards. Then when you're a bit more zen with it, come back under a new name and don't tell anyone who you are. Then just hang out in the F1/Other Racing/Community forums if you're still pissed at Champ Car. That way even when the sport's not your cup of tea, you're still amongst friends.

I know a guy who did that...:cool:

[Cam]

When you get too fed up with it all, take a year or so away from the boards. Then when you're a bit more zen with it, come back under a new name and don't tell anyone who you are. Then just hang out in the F1/Other Racing/Community forums if you're still pissed at Champ Car. That way even when the sport's not your cup of tea, you're still amongst friends.

I know a guy who did that...:cool:

Werd....

UhOh! :irked:

[Sean Malone]

I know a guy who did that...:cool:

No you don't.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Whatever, you couldn't even make it a year.

[Sean Malone]

hey, a stalker fan club! Lucky me.


Nice to know you're tracking. What are you using, Excel, Outlook?

look Ma, I gots friends!:gomer:

[extramundane]

hey, a stalker fan club! Lucky me.


Nice to know you're tracking. What are you using, Excel, Outlook?

look Ma, I gots friends!:gomer:

I bet if SeanO disappeared for a whole year, that would really put you in your place, wouldn't it?

Go for it, SeanO!

[Methanolandbrats]

I bet if SeanO disappeared for a whole year, that would really put you in your place, wouldn't it?

Go for it, SeanO! Now there's a great idea! :)

[Dirk Diggler]

No you don't.

Well, I know a guy who knows a guy...

[Sean Malone]

Well, I know a guy who knows a guy...

I'm not that bright. I was way smarter when I was 22.

Alzhiemers @ 40? This sucks. ;)

[Dirk Diggler]

I'm not that bright. I was way smarter when I was 22.

Alzhiemers @ 40? This sucks. ;)

Weird. Now I think that you're describing me!

Spooky.

[Methanolandbrats]

What were we taking about?

[G.]

What were we taking about?
bacon, I assume.

[Dirk Diggler]

Yeah, bacon or Airbus, one of the two.

[Easy]

I thought it was Mexican Coke and Smoking Meat?

[extramundane]

Mexican Coke and Smoking Meat?

How Tony George spent his weekends in the 1980s.

</karnac>

[Methanolandbrats]

How Tony George spent his weekends in the 1980s.

</karnac>:laugh:

[WickerBill]

As for the topic:

1. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It is completely up to the Bosses.

2. Putting someone under moderation isn't even close to banning them. It's just reviewing their content before it goes live. Nobody ever got that kind of warning from me; I would probably have banned a third of you no-good bums by now... nrc and RaceGrrl are saints to all of us.

3. Let's call this post what it is: a moaning pity party for having a "right" taken away. Give me a break; when you're called out -- finally -- for smugness and being a sympathizer, you have no rights. YOU aren't paying the bills, YOU aren't doing the work behind the scenes, YOU aren't anything. I've said it before -- you, as an individual, are not important in the least -- the community is important.

If the Bosses sacrifice an outlying branch for the health of the tree, or for their own sanity, I applaud them.

[Dirk Diggler]

I wouldn't fly on an Airbus.

[Audi_A4]

As for the topic:

2. ..... Nobody ever got that kind of warning from me; I would probably have banned a third of you no-good bums by now... nrc and RaceGrrl are saints to all of us.
.


yup "Laguna" banned me a couple of times :gomer:

[Methanolandbrats]

As for the topic:

1. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It is completely up to the Bosses.

2. Putting someone under moderation isn't even close to banning them. It's just reviewing their content before it goes live. Nobody ever got that kind of warning from me; I would probably have banned a third of you no-good bums by now... nrc and RaceGrrl are saints to all of us.

3. Let's call this post what it is: a moaning pity party for having a "right" taken away. Give me a break; when you're called out -- finally -- for smugness and being a sympathizer, you have no rights. YOU aren't paying the bills, YOU aren't doing the work behind the scenes, YOU aren't anything. I've said it before -- you, as an individual, are not important in the least -- the community is important.

If the Bosses sacrifice an outlying branch for the health of the tree, or for their own sanity, I applaud them. Yes, it's like surgery for the flesh eating virus, you hack off chunks until what's left is healthy.

[Sean Malone]

As for the topic:

1. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It is completely up to the Bosses.

2. Putting someone under moderation isn't even close to banning them. It's just reviewing their content before it goes live. Nobody ever got that kind of warning from me; I would probably have banned a third of you no-good bums by now... nrc and RaceGrrl are saints to all of us.

3. Let's call this post what it is: a moaning pity party for having a "right" taken away. Give me a break; when you're called out -- finally -- for smugness and being a sympathizer, you have no rights. YOU aren't paying the bills, YOU aren't doing the work behind the scenes, YOU aren't anything. I've said it before -- you, as an individual, are not important in the least -- the community is important.

If the Bosses sacrifice an outlying branch for the health of the tree, or for their own sanity, I applaud them.

I think that is why OC has the great rep it does. Members and non members respect that fact that it's not a romper room. Even spicoli manages to put his clean shirt on when he comes to OC, for the most part.

[Indy]

yup "Laguna" banned me a couple of times :gomer:

Come to think of it, I think he banned me at least once. :thumbup:

Sean, I don't think Spicoli has a clean shirt, he just keeps using up his freebies. :rockingonsomeoneelsesdime:

[JT265]

yup "Laguna" banned me a couple of times :gomer:

Gotta say he never banned me. Of course, that speaks more to the suckup in me I suppose. :D

[cart7]

As for the topic:

1. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. It is completely up to the Bosses.

I agree


2. Putting someone under moderation isn't even close to banning them. It's just reviewing their content before it goes live. Nobody ever got that kind of warning from me; I would probably have banned a third of you no-good bums by now... nrc and RaceGrrl are saints to all of us.

Back in 7G days and the earlier days of this forum it was pretty cut and dried. Things in CART/Champcar weren't anywhere near as bad as they are now and I'm even including the days pre-hearing. This new ownership group has been a complete letdown that rivals Geraldo opening Capones vault. At this point, even the particulars within CCWS are talking about going to the IRL. It's normal that discussion in that direction is going to take place as well as speculation and opinions of that possible direction for CCWS or it's participants.


3. Let's call this post what it is: a moaning pity party for having a "right" taken away. Give me a break; when you're called out -- finally -- for smugness and being a sympathizer, you have no rights. YOU aren't paying the bills, YOU aren't doing the work behind the scenes, YOU aren't anything. I've said it before -- you, as an individual, are not important in the least -- the community is important.

If the Bosses sacrifice an outlying branch for the health of the tree, or for their own sanity, I applaud them.

Which lends the question, if jono is being censured, why was this post allowed up?

I don't understand why posts construed as Pro-TG/IRL by a poster under censure won't be allowed to go up but a post such as the release of a PM from the mods to said poster is. So far, the only thing I've seen posted by him is what he put up in this thread and I don't see anything Pro-TG at all in that content.

I appreciate all the work that NRC and Grrl do in keeping this place going. IMO, it's still the best OW racing site on the net. That said, I'm not sure in this case that this was handled like it could've been for the best possible outcome. In this case, a CCWS fan, one who attends CCWS races and follows the series is basically being outcast at a CCWS board. This series can't afford to alienate anyone at this point.

JMO as usual. :gomer:

[Cam]

Which lends the question, if jono is being censured, why was this post allowed up?

Self centered attention. "Look at me. I am being singled out!" Attention whore. Popsicle impersonator jono has always been that way. Always nipping at the edge of where the forums morals stand. He does the same damn thing at TF.

[extramundane]

YOU aren't paying the bills, YOU aren't doing the work behind the scenes, YOU aren't anything. I've said it before -- you, as an individual, are not important in the least

Have you been reading my performance reviews again?

[Insomniac]

Which lends the question, if jono is being censured, why was this post allowed up?

I don't understand why posts construed as Pro-TG/IRL by a poster under censure won't be allowed to go up but a post such as the release of a PM from the mods to said poster is. So far, the only thing I've seen posted by him is what he put up in this thread and I don't see anything Pro-TG at all in that content.

I appreciate all the work that NRC and Grrl do in keeping this place going. IMO, it's still the best OW racing site on the net. That said, I'm not sure in this case that this was handled like it could've been for the best possible outcome. In this case, a CCWS fan, one who attends CCWS races and follows the series is basically being outcast at a CCWS board. This series can't afford to alienate anyone at this point.

JMO as usual. :gomer:

It should be pointed out that none of us know if any of jono's posts have been moderated.

It seems like a compromise between a ban and letting it go. I don't know what they do, my guess is they either let the post go up as is or don't let it go up at all. nrc has made it clear that he does not like the tone of jono's recent posts. Instead of editing or deleting them after the fact, it seems he's just cutting them off.

jono shouldn't have made this public. He should've understood what nrc did not like about his posts. He was/is free to keep posting, and will find out what is acceptable and what isn't. If he doesn't like it, I doubt there's anything he can do besides quit posting (either on that topic or all together). They're giving him some options, that yes, include moderation/censorship, but the options could just as easily be ban/no ban.

[dando]

It should be pointed out that none of us know if any of jono's posts have been moderated.

It seems like a compromise between a ban and letting it go. I don't know what they do, my guess is they either let the post go up as is or don't let it go up at all. nrc has made it clear that he does not like the tone of jono's recent posts. Instead of editing or deleting them after the fact, it seems he's just cutting them off.

jono shouldn't have made this public. He should've understood what nrc did not like about his posts. He was/is free to keep posting, and will find out what is acceptable and what isn't. If he doesn't like it, I doubt there's anything he can do besides quit posting (either on that topic or all together). They're giving him some options, that yes, include moderation/censorship, but the options could just as easily be ban/no ban.

Richard addressed why the post was allowed:

http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=219791&postcount=5

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Richard addressed why the post was allowed:

http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=219791&postcount=5

-Kevin

I think you meant to reply to cart7, right?

[dando]

I think you meant to reply to cart7, right?

I just replied period. :)

-Kevin

[cart7]

I just replied period. :)

-Kevin

My question was, if jono's posts are being moderated, why would you allow a post of a PM from the Mods to jono go public? If you're going to block or edit the content of posts that are perceived to be Pro TG/IRL, wouldn't you also block something like the posting of a PM? It would seem the possibility of an inflammatory thread is just as likely with posting a PM as there would be with posting something encouraging CCWS merging with the IRL or claiming TG would be a good leader of OW.

[G.]

My question was, if jono's posts are being moderated, why would you allow a post of a PM from the Mods to jono go public?
Cuz nrc and the Grrl ain't got **** to hide?

Cuz their secret forums are down?;)

Cuz secrecy builds mistrust?

Cuz they felt like it?

Cuz it's funny?

Cuz it's none of my concern?

Jono, take your lump, and continue to contribute. That's all.

PS. Mods, please ban JT. You know, just Cuz. ;)

[cameraman]

you, as an individual, are not important in the least When did you meet my mother in-law?

[nrc]

My question was, if jono's posts are being moderated, why would you allow a post of a PM from the Mods to jono go public? If you're going to block or edit the content of posts that are perceived to be Pro TG/IRL, wouldn't you also block something like the posting of a PM? It would seem the possibility of an inflammatory thread is just as likely with posting a PM as there would be with posting something encouraging CCWS merging with the IRL or claiming TG would be a good leader of OW.

In general we prefer to handle moderation decisions behind the scenes. But if someone challenges us to stand behind our decisions in public we will typically do just that.

By posting our original message to him Jono put us in a no-win situation. We could either approve his post in spite of the breach of ettiquette and stand behind our decision, or deny it and create the impression that we have something to hide.

In this case we decided that if jono was taking the discussion beyond our own private communication we would prefer that people get the full explanation from us rather than second hand.

So more or less, what G said. :)

[Insomniac]

Cuz their secret forums are down?;)

You don't have access to the Bat Cave?

[cart7]

By posting our original message to him Jono put us in a no-win situation. We could either approve his post in spite of the breach of ettiquette and stand behind our decision, or deny it and create the impression that we have something to hide.

In this case we decided that if jono was taking the discussion beyond our own private communication we would prefer that people get the full explanation from us rather than second hand.

Point duly noted. :cool:

[JT265]

So more or less, what G said. :)

Oh great. Now I'm banned here too! :(



















































:rofl:

[Kahauna Dreamer]

damn...:eek: :confused: :eek:

[Indy]

Can we ban the Spanish, too?

[mapguy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/mapguy/banned.gif

[nrc]

Ok, looks like we've reached the end of fruitful discussion. Just to be clear, nobody has been banned. Not recently, anyway. ;)

Jono remains on moderated status indefinitely. For the time being he has declined to participate under that restriction.

Thank you all for your feedback and support.