Star Article: [Archive] - Off Camber Forums

Sean Malone

02-08-08, 10:34 PM

What does this mean to you?

Kalkhoven said he and Forsythe accept the fact they won't have an ownership stake if a combined series materializes.

"As long as we both come out OK, whatever that is, we're OK," he said.

Kalkhoven and Forsythe own several companies that operate in open-wheel racing, including the promotion of existing Champ Car races, Cosworth engines and the Pi computer system used in the cars.

Both sanctioning bodies are based in Indianapolis, but the IRL would be the leader of a unified series, and the equipment used would initially be the IRL's.

link (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/SPORTS0107/802080490)

dando

02-08-08, 10:45 PM

What does this mean to you?

link (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/SPORTS0107/802080490)

With the HoMoCo deal coming to an end after '09, and the new EARL chassis design announced, I suspect there might be an opening for Cozzie and/or the DP. MAYBE. :\

EDIT: the deal apparently runs until '09. Some believe there is an option for HoMoCo to continue it through '09.

-Kevin

nissan gtp

02-08-08, 10:46 PM

With the HoMoCo deal coming to an end after '09, and the new EARL chassis design announced, I suspect there might be an opening for Cozzie and/or the DP. MAYBE. :\

-Kevin

let's hope so

Methanolandbrats

02-08-08, 11:00 PM

What it means to me is the only thing left is ALMS. On a weekend without ALMS, imagine the anguish a racefan will face flipping through the channels and trying to decide between IRL sleds on a short oval, DP prototypes spasming around a road course or the COT show. :yuck: puking violently:

KLang

02-08-08, 11:30 PM

It means to me: capitulation. They are throwing in the towel. And I will not be watching. :yuck:

stroker

02-08-08, 11:36 PM

It means to me: capitulation. They are throwing in the towel. And I will not be watching. :yuck:

"Come out okay..."

Read that again. "Come out okay..."

WTF? This is a quote from a venture capitalist? Jeebus Effing Christ.

Capitulation is a gross understatement.

RusH

02-08-08, 11:41 PM

I know this question belongs in the other forum, but what ...if anything will happen to the ALMS dates at RA and Houston...rarely do they cancel.
I don`t want to ask the folks at the ALMS site, they might bite. :D

I think they are strong enough for a lone appearance if need be...:\

glass half full, don`t kill me.

nissan gtp

02-09-08, 08:54 AM

cameraman

02-09-08, 11:28 AM

The Utah ALMS race has four support races.

Support races for the Utah Grand Prix will include the SCCA SPEED World Challenge Championship, the STAR Mazda Championship presented by Goodyear, the IMSA GT3 Cup Presented by Michelin and the IMSA Lites presented by Hankook Tires.

Andrew Longman

02-09-08, 11:38 AM

Atlantics are scheduled to run Utah 21 Sept with GA

rosawendel

02-09-08, 11:45 AM

"As long as we both come out OK, whatever that is, we're OK," he said.

In order to make the translation here, an assumption must be made: "we both" is "Kalkhoven said he and Forsythe", not "Champ Car and the IRL"

With that in mind, the translation involves the words "checks", "zeroes", and "clears".

Once that happens, i'm sure KK and GF would want seats on the board.

just my opinion.

02-09-08, 12:15 PM

"Come out okay..."

Read that again. "Come out okay..."

WTF? This is a quote from a venture capitalist? Jeebus Effing Christ.

Capitulation is a gross understatement.

In order to make the translation here, an assumption must be made: "we both" is "Kalkhoven said he and Forsythe", not "Champ Car and the IRL"

With that in mind, the translation involves the words "checks", "zeroes", and "clears".

Once that happens, i'm sure KK and GF would want seats on the board.

just my opinion.

"Come out okay" = Here's our price, take it or leave it.

Bet that's why the snortin' moron is on his way to Japan. He's going to beg for the money in person.

:shakehead

Andrew Longman

02-09-08, 12:27 PM

"Come out okay" = Here's our price, take it or leave it.

Bet that's why the snortin' moron is on his way to Japan. He's going to beg for the money in person.

:shakehead

Well, there was that $100 Million price GF supposedly said. One poster elsewhere said that was $100MM was over ten years. Combined with the comment from TG that the IRL would pay a sanction fee for CC races (which seems backwards, but whatever), let's just say they pay $2MM each to add five CC races to the IRL schedule (e.g., LB, Surfers, Mexico, TO, and Edmonton - or swap in Cleveland and Houston for Surfers and Mexico). Sign a 10 year contract and there's your $100MM.

Throw in a agreement to allow Cosworth engines (badged or otherwise) and Pi electronics (are they already used in Dallaras, or is that Motorola?) and there are other means to get to $100MM or beyond.

02-09-08, 02:21 PM

Well, there was that $100 Million price GF supposedly said. One poster elsewhere said that was $100MM was over ten years. Combined with the comment from TG that the IRL would pay a sanction fee for CC races (which seems backwards, but whatever), let's just say they pay $2MM each to add five CC races to the IRL schedule (e.g., LB, Surfers, Mexico, TO, and Edmonton - or swap in Cleveland and Houston for Surfers and Mexico). Sign a 10 year contract and there's your $100MM.

Throw in a agreement to allow Cosworth engines (badged or otherwise) and Pi electronics (are they already used in Dallaras, or is that Motorola?) and there are other means to get to $100MM or beyond.

Hello Andrew.

Yes, & I'll bet KK wants at least as much as Unka Jer.

More money that the Stoop of the Sagamore can lay hands on except in Yen.

stroker

02-09-08, 03:14 PM

Well, there was that $100 Million price GF supposedly said. One poster elsewhere said that was $100MM was over ten years. Combined with the comment from TG that the IRL would pay a sanction fee for CC races (which seems backwards, but whatever), let's just say they pay $2MM each to add five CC races to the IRL schedule (e.g., LB, Surfers, Mexico, TO, and Edmonton - or swap in Cleveland and Houston for Surfers and Mexico). Sign a 10 year contract and there's your $100MM.

Throw in a agreement to allow Cosworth engines (badged or otherwise) and Pi electronics (are they already used in Dallaras, or is that Motorola?) and there are other means to get to $100MM or beyond.

BINGO. That's what I was thinking, but not as quickly as you. I would think there are "long term" contracts for the races, Cosworth, Pi, etc. that would effectively guarantee that sum of $.

I have two specific questions, though.

1. Is there going to be a non-compete clause in the contract?
2. What happens to Atlantics?

Andrew Longman

02-09-08, 03:23 PM

More money that the Stoop of the Sagamore can lay hands on except in Yen.

I don't know about that.

1) It's only $10MM year.
2) He doesn't have to run Vision on his dime anymore 3) He doesn't have to fund Panther, D&R, etc.
4) He doesn't have to pay for field fillers in May
5) He lessens the possibility that ABC will negotiate down the $15MM he from them each year
6) He might even be able to negotiate it up because he is adding races and teams

But TG has shown have more pride than smarts

Andrew Longman

02-09-08, 03:38 PM

I have two specific questions, though.

1. Is there going to be a non-compete clause in the contract?
2. What happens to Atlantics?

A non compete isn't likely needed. Unlike TG, KK and GF aren't stupid enough to create a competing series that diminishes the value of the events they own.

Besides TG said he was willing to pay a reverse sanction. Structure it as a lease to own deal with an option to buy at any point. In ten years KK and GF are going to be old enough that they probably don't want to be running events any longer anyway. This way TG knows if they choose to start another series he can just buy their events at a set price.

As for Atlantics, if they do a deal this year, they're screwed. Most of their events go away.

If they do it in 09 they can spend this year putting together an all road course schedule. That would leave IPS as the oval ladder. To me that makes little sense unless they make one or the other significantly more HP as a closer step to the big cars. Even then there is too little sponsorship and funded talent around to fill two ladder series.

I'd say budget this year for CCA oval kits and shut down IPS in 09. CCA seems to be the series meeting its mission best (Matos aside but that's a CC problem, not a CCA problem) and it has the Cosworth connection.

stroker

02-09-08, 04:37 PM

I'd say budget this year for CCA oval kits and shut down IPS in 09. CCA seems to be the series meeting its mission best (Matos aside but that's a CC problem, not a CCA problem) and it has the Cosworth connection.

See, what I was thinking is that they're not selling Cosworth/Pi as part of the deal. If Atlantics is NOT negotiated as part of the deal why not keep CCA as an ongoing entity (given the Cosworth connection you mention) showcasing Cosworth products for a different (4 cyl, or Tuner) market? That's still a marketing opportunity for a KK/GF held property (Cosworth).

Spicoli

02-09-08, 05:19 PM

See, what I was thinking is that they're not selling Cosworth/Pi as part of the deal. If Atlantics is NOT negotiated as part of the deal why not keep CCA as an ongoing entity (given the Cosworth connection you mention) showcasing Cosworth products for a different (4 cyl, or Tuner) market? That's still a marketing opportunity for a KK/GF held property (Cosworth).

I agree that Atlantics have a future, I'm just not sure if they will continue down that path, or if it makes $$$ sense. What I have been told is that if CCWS goes, its all over.

I was also told that the Elan people were at CC late last week, and I think that is VERY interesting. Could the Panoz folks be interested in buying the cars back and developing the series? Were they there to talk about the DP01 suitability on ovals? Were they interested in investing/partnering with CCWS?

and....Why do we think that only fTG is interested in buying CC?

The one thing I AM sure of is they have had enough. What is currently operating as CCWS sucks - its broken - the reputation is toast - KK & GF have shown they aren't willing to invest what it takes (not just $$$ but leadership too) to make this thing work. Cotman leaving, while many may say wgaf, was the nail in the coffin. Its a rudderless ship with Pauly Poledance and King Stupid Stevie J calling the daily shots.

And yes, desks are being empited. YMMV.

[/bloggy]

stroker

02-09-08, 07:34 PM

I agree that Atlantics have a future, I'm just not sure if they will continue down that path, or if it makes $$$ sense. What I have been told is that if CCWS goes, its all over.

I was also told that the Elan people were at CC late last week, and I think that is VERY interesting. Could the Panoz folks be interested in buying the cars back and developing the series? Were they there to talk about the DP01 suitability on ovals? Were they interested in investing/partnering with CCWS?

and....Why do we think that only fTG is interested in buying CC?

The one thing I AM sure of is they have had enough. What is currently operating as CCWS sucks - its broken - the reputation is toast - KK & GF have shown they aren't willing to invest what it takes (not just $$$ but leadership too) to make this thing work. Cotman leaving, while many may say wgaf, was the nail in the coffin. Its a rudderless ship with Pauly Poledance and King Stupid Stevie J calling the daily shots.

And yes, desks are being empited. YMMV.

[/bloggy]

That's a pretty coherent post from somebody who's supposed to be drinking heavily. :)

Yes, Elan's visit/interest IS interesting. Panoz owns Road Atlanta, yes? And isn't he connected to ALMS? Might CCA move to a being a subsidiary of ALMS?

Andrew Longman

02-09-08, 08:17 PM

That's a pretty coherent post from somebody who's supposed to be drinking heavily. Insert blind squirrel comment here

Yes, Elan's visit/interest IS interesting. Panoz owns Road Atlanta, yes? And isn't he connected to ALMS? Might CCA move to a being a subsidiary of ALMS?

Except then Atlantics is a ladder to where? ALMS is a sports car series. Formula racing has no fenders and is a different deal.

They can co-bill but there is no other natural relationship

Spicoli

02-09-08, 08:30 PM

Insert blind squirrel comment here

Except then Atlantics is a ladder to where? ALMS is a sports car series. Formula racing has no fenders and is a different deal.

They can co-bill but there is no other natural relationship

IYAM, I think Atlantics can stand on their own. Fun to watch, alot of teams, younger drivers, inexpensive (kinda) to operate a team, can run and look good on any road course.....

But that's just me.

Jag_Warrior

02-09-08, 09:20 PM

nissan gtp

02-09-08, 09:22 PM

What is currently operating as CCWS sucks - its broken - the reputation is toast - KK & GF have shown they aren't willing to invest what it takes (not just $$$ but leadership too) to make this thing work.

well said YTDtard ;)

Methanolandbrats

02-10-08, 01:47 AM

ALMS, F1 and NHRA here. :thumbup:and bikes :thumbup:

extramundane

02-11-08, 09:52 AM

Except then Atlantics is a ladder to where? ALMS is a sports car series. Formula racing has no fenders and is a different deal.

They can co-bill but there is no other natural relationship

IMSA also sanctions Formula Mazda, so it's not that out of the question. And since Atlantics feeds the sportscars more than open wheel these days...