BK in the AM

[Spicoli]

spyplanes says game ovah.:\

[Sean Malone]

I forgot where I heard this last week but isn't bankruptcy part of the merger plan ? Or are you sying that's it. Doors closed, teams go where they may.

It seems like they almost have to in order for the races left off the sched to not sue, unless there were merger clauses, which I would assume there would be.

Has anyone heard if TG actually made it to Japan? I have a mental image of that guy getting off the plane in Califonia, bowing and saying "domo arigato" to everyone.

[Indy]

Sean, BK=bankruptcy.

[Sean Malone]

Sean, BK=bankruptcy.

No %&$. Who do they owe mone too? The tracks they had contracts with?

Whatever. Why did :tony: go to Japan then?

[FTG]

If Honda gives Tony $$$

Tony signs deal with Cosworth, giving KK and GF $$$$.

KK and GF bankrupt Champ Car: screwing everyone who ever supported Champ Car, just like the first time. Boy would I ever feel like a putz if I spent an entire day in a bankruptcy court cheering for these guys.

[Methanolandbrats]

If Honda gives Tony $$$

Tony signs deal with Cosworth, giving KK and GF $$$$.

KK and GF bankrupt Champ Car: screwing everyone who ever supported Champ Car, just like the first time. Boy would I ever feel like a putz if I spent an entire day in a bankruptcy court cheering for these guys.

Once again, loyal fans take it in the starfish.

[Spicoli]

If Honda gives Tony $$$

Tony signs deal with Cosworth, giving KK and GF $$$$.

KK and GF bankrupt Champ Car: screwing everyone who ever supported Champ Car, just like the first time. Boy would I ever feel like a putz if I spent an entire day in a bankruptcy court cheering for these guys.

we were cheering for the sport. I wrote some more **** on smack, if you wanna look, but you post over there so, why am i even posting this i don;t know.

Hell, I'm not even drinking.

Aren;t you proud? :D

[Sean Malone]

The way I see it, Tony asking Honda to move Motegi had nothing whatsoever to do with a merger. He needs that date moved period, so they can set up shop at LB.

Where was there ever talk of a 'merger' other than GF asking for 100mil that Tony said no to? It was "join our program and disband or disband and join our program".

[Spicoli]

The way I see it, Tony asking Honda to move Motegi had nothing whatsoever to do with a merger. He needs that date moved period, so they can set up shop at LB.

Where was there ever talk of a 'merger' other than GF asking for 100mil that Tony said no to? It was "join our program and disband or disband and join our program".

unwritten agreements, like we'll BK if you add our LB, Mex City, X & X races, allloow Cosworths, use Pi, etc, help the sting go away for KK & GF. Everybody's gotta come out a winner.


cept for Poledance paulie. He can go suck a marmot weenie.

[Sean Malone]

unwritten agreements, like we'll BK if you add our LB, Mex City, X & X races, allloow Cosworths, use Pi, etc, help the sting go away for KK & GF. Everybody's gotta come out a winner.


cept for Poledance paulie. He can go suck a marmot weenie.

So they are still going to try to sell this as a 'merger'?

[Spicoli]

So they are still going to try to sell this as a 'merger'?

Well, the OC tribe won;t buy it, but I suspect the gomers will see what they see, as does the public. I'm sure TG has his Ice Miller boys on speed dial right now, and Fred has his muzzle on him. gotsta be careful during this phase.

Besides, this ain;t no merger, its a death and an auction.:irked:

[Sean Malone]

Well, the OC tribe won;t buy it, but I suspect the gomers will see what they see, as does the public. I'm sure TG has his Ice Miller boys on speed dial right now, and Fred has his muzzle on him. gotsta be careful during this phase.

Besides, this ain;t no merger, its a death and an auction.:irked:

I want to be the first to thank Spicoli for not only sharing what he knows about CC but also for keeping things fun over the years. It seems like yesterday that we were all glued to OC as we waited for Spicoli to update us on the BK proceedings. So here we are at the end. It will be interesting to see where people end up. I'll be found in the dumpster (you know what I mean Spicoli, wink, wink).

Group hug.

Oh, but ,,,,sez it ain't over.

[dando]

Rahole was on th elocal news tonight discussing the deal. Apparently there is a C^RT board meeting tomorrow night and BK could happen as early as Thurs. My guess is that BK will void some of the current contracts, etc., or result in the debt settlement of a $.10 on the $. Just my hunch.

-Kevin

[Spicoli]

Rahole was on th elocal news tonight discussing the deal. Apparently there is a C^RT board meeting tomorrow night and BK could happen as early as Thurs. My guess is that BK will void some of the current contracts, etc., or result in the debt settlement of a $.10 on the $. Just my hunch.

-Kevin

:rofl: like he has any idea. :laugh:

[Indy]

It does seem that these particular thieves are playing fast and loose with the bankruptcy. I would love to see some creditors collect evidence from all the forums, emails, etc. and prove that this was a conspiracy to defraud.

Those unwritten agreements are seemingly awfully widely known.

[Methanolandbrats]

Motorsports died in the mid 1990s. It is'nt fun anymore. All the players in this mess can rot in hell. **** em all.

[Gnam]

Has anyone heard if TG actually made it to Japan? I have a mental image of that guy getting off the plane in Califonia, bowing and saying "domo arigato" to everyone.
:D

"Those Japs are all right. Fred, can we have sushi again tonite? Those chimichangas were great!"

[Gnam]

It does seem that these particular thieves are playing fast and loose with the bankruptcy. I would love to see some creditors collect evidence from all the forums, emails, etc. and prove that this was a conspiracy to defraud.

Those unwritten agreements are seemingly awfully widely known.
You sound like iglooboy. :rofl:

No way thay could stand up against Hawaiian, Samoan, and federali lawyers all at the same time. Not to mention the Alaskan researchers and media insiders just WAITING in reserve. No way Jose. :p

[Spicoli]

It does seem that these particular thieves are playing fast and loose with the bankruptcy. I would love to see some creditors collect evidence from all the forums, emails, etc. and prove that this was a conspiracy to defraud.

Those unwritten agreements are seemingly awfully widely known.

the only guys capable of pulling off such a ginormous task would be the Hawaiian Lawyers.

[Cam]

Motorsports died in the mid 1990s. It is'nt fun anymore. All the players in this mess can rot in hell. **** em all.

I agree. It all started with the dark weekend at Monza. AS and RR leave the living world then all of a sudden the whole industry starts to become homogenized... Motorsports morphed that weekend.:(

[gerhard911]

I agree. It all started with the dark weekend at Monza. AS and RR leave the living world then all of a sudden the whole industry starts to become homogenized... Motorsports morphed that weekend.:(

You mean Imola :confused:

[JT265]

You mean Imola :confused:

Cut him some slack, all those Yurp tracks look the same. :gomer:


:laugh:

[Methanolandbrats]

I agree. It all started with the dark weekend at Monza. AS and RR leave the living world then all of a sudden the whole industry starts to become homogenized... Motorsports morphed that weekend.:( I meant IMSA folded, CART was peaking and NASCAR completed it's conversion to total crap. All that's left is F1 and WRC, although I'm just guessing on the last one since I can't watch it. :shakehead

[dando]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/champ-car-heading-for-bankruptcy/


The word on the street late Monday was that Champ Car plans to file bankruptcy within the next 24-48 hours which, effectively, will end the 12-year war in open wheel.

Steve Johnson, president of Champ Car, was asked about the bankruptcy rumor on Monday evening and responded in an email: “I have not been informed and we have been hearing the bankruptcy rumor for 18 months.”

However, at least one definitive sign pointed to the end of a series that began as CART in 1979 and was re-titled Champ Car after Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsythe took it over in bankruptcy court in 2004.

Pat Caporali, hired a few weeks ago as CC’s new director of public relations, reported for her first day of work on Monday. But she was informed it might be a good idea to try and get her old position back with Chip Ganassi because there would be no work for her.

:saywhat:

What a bunch of ****ing morons. :shakehead

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

>>>From the latest article "But the repercussions could come from Laguna Seca, Elkhart Lake, St. Jovite, Canada, Belgium, Spain and The Netherlands. None of those tracks would have races in ‘08 in a unified series". >>>

Goodbye natural terrain road courses and hello s***** little ovals.

[Napoleon]

:(

[Rus'L]

I forgot where I heard this last week but isn't bankruptcy part of the merger plan ? Or are you sying that's it. Doors closed, teams go where they may.

Yes, it's all part of the dominoes that need to fall to make this work.

Of course, as others have properly indicated, "merger" is not what we should be calling it.

[Shadow]

Keep in mind that CART had two companies. The public company (MPH) and the operating sub. Cash pumped into the sub went in as loans NOT equity and thus MPH was the largest creditor of the operating company and that was why they could dictate the buyer (by agreeing to subrogate their loans if they approved of the buyer [and they would not approve of TG] and that allowed the general creditors to get 100 cents on the buck). MPH shareholders got about 29 cents per share if my memory is working this morning.

Now, do we have a two tear structure here as well? If we have, then the operating company with (no doubt in my mind) a significant deficit will be put under and that will take care of the contracts with tracks that will not be on the IRL calendar (I think Toronto is one the IRL wants badly but they have another date conflict to clear and that may take a year) as the tracks are unlikely to sue an entity that has nothing, and which has a parent company that is the largest creditor (a repeat of CART).

[pchall]

It's just to damned late for this to do anything good. This will prop the IRL up for a couple of seasons and then it will all get flushed.

[dando]

:rofl: like he has any idea. :laugh:

I caught it in the middle of the interview. Booby was mainly talking about Grahame racing against Marco, etc. The local sports guy mentioned the meeting and the BK stuff. Sounds like he's not far off, tho, according to RM's piece this AM. *shrug*

-Kevin

[Spicoli]

I caught it in the middle of the interview. Booby was mainly talking about Grahame racing against Marco, etc. The local sports guy mentioned the meeting and the BK stuff. Sounds like he's not far off, tho, according to RM's piece this AM. *shrug*

-Kevin

he's not. but he prolly read it on teh innerwebs.:gomer:

[RusH]

Flying all the way to Japan to change a race date was silly, IMO

http://shutter09.pictures.aol.com/data/pictures/19/009/2B/5E/FD/0A/ohH9f08Kt+wG3IoLI5M5p1RUN+p8G2Lm01D1.jpg

:D

:gomer:

[dando]

he's not. but he prolly read it on teh innerwebs.:gomer:

Or Paulie gave him the 411. :gomer:

-Kevin

[JoeBob]

A prepackaged "bankruptcy" is often the easiest way for two companies to merge. For example, American Airlines bought TWA via a pre packaged bankruptcy.

It lets you merge the pieces you want, and easily get rid of the ones you don't.

If TG bought CC straight up, they'd have to do all the Europe races. If he buys them through BK (just like KK and GF did) he gets to buy the pieces they agree to, and tell the rest to pound sand.

[Methanolandbrats]

..... and tell the rest to pound sand.
The "rest includes the fans. :mad:

[Sean O'Gorman]

What fans???

[Spicoli]

What fans???

oh jeebus, not this kid again. :rofl:

[Methanolandbrats]

What fans???
Go jerk off to your poster of Cheeber's Prototype.

[Insomniac]

The "rest includes the fans. :mad:

But either way, the "combined" series would be the same if they do it via bankruptcy or not. With bankruptcy they get to screw people over and lose less money. It gets murky because KK and GF could continue to prop the hole house of cards up if they want. But financially, the whole business doesn't make sense.

[pchall]

What fans???

:shakehead

Go bash cones with your Mr. Two. You'll never know real racing.

[Sean O'Gorman]

:rolleyes:

If only I could be as bitter and sophisticated as pchall, then I'd truly know the joy of hating racing and thinking that everyone sucks.

[Methanolandbrats]

:rolleyes:

If only I could be as bitter and sophisticated as pchall, then I'd truly know the joy of hating racing and thinking that everyone sucks.
You grew up on a diet of **** so you don't know the difference.

[dando]

:rolleyes:

If only I could be as bitter and sophisticated as pchall, then I'd truly know the joy of hating racing and thinking that everyone sucks.

SOG, perspective here, please. There are folks here that have followed racing since the 60s. I've followed it casually since the 70s, and seriously since the 80s. The racing we have available today, on any level, is a sham compared to the early-90s and before.

-Kevin

[Sean Malone]

Would the races that KK owns the rights to be included in the BK?

Just wondering out loud, but I question the timing of the BK. I would think that it would be an option after all avenues with Tony have been driven to a dead end.
If Tony went to Japan to ask for a race date move, and got it, and now he's saying that a merger won't come quickly if at all...but yet CC is going BK, what's the missing link here? The races that KK has.
Maybe he's threatening Tony that he's selling them off to the ALMS unless Tony plays ball. Hmmm.

[Indy]

:rolleyes:

If only I could be as bitter and sophisticated as pchall, then I'd truly know the joy of hating racing and thinking that everyone sucks.

True, you would. Ignorance is bliss.

Up with ignorami!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

The furthest back I can remember into my childhood is an IMSA GTP race at Mid-Ohio from 1988. I read AutoWeek and every other car magazine I could get my hands on through my teens, when I found the interwebs. I know the history of racing that you guys are constantly referring to. I also know that racing goes far beyond unsustainable expensive machinery, and that while they aren't very pleasing to look at, DPs, Indycars, stock cars, etc. are incredibly difficult to drive, drive fast, and win in, and none of you can deny that. You may not like it, but it is real racing.

Champ Car as we know it died after 2001 when Chris Pook abandoned the traditional, Midwest-based core of the series in chase of the false attendence figures of street races and international races that no one really cared about. All that is disappearing is a club racing series that has kept a few good races from being on the same schedule as traditional open-wheel races like Mid-Ohio, Indy, Milwaukee, etc., and some nice sounding/looking open wheel cars.

[Racing Truth]

The furthest back I can remember into my childhood is an IMSA GTP race at Mid-Ohio from 1988. I read AutoWeek and every other car magazine I could get my hands on through my teens, when I found the interwebs. I know the history of racing that you guys are constantly referring to. I also know that racing goes far beyond unsustainable expensive machinery, and that while they aren't very pleasing to look at, DPs, Indycars, stock cars, etc. are incredibly difficult to drive, drive fast, and win in, and none of you can deny that. You may not like it, but it is real racing.

Champ Car as we know it died after 2001 when Chris Pook abandoned the traditional, Midwest-based core of the series in chase of the false attendence figures of street races and international races that no one really cared about. All that is disappearing is a club racing series that has kept a few good races from being on the same schedule as traditional open-wheel races like Mid-Ohio, Indy, Milwaukee, etc., and some nice sounding/looking open wheel cars.

At this point in time, I think that's right. Which is sad.

[Easy]

What fans???


Please, there are at literally dozens of fans left. Maybe even over 100.

[dando]

Would the races that KK owns the rights to be included in the BK?

Just wondering out loud, but I question the timing of the BK. I would think that it would be an option after all avenues with Tony have been driven to a dead end.
If Tony went to Japan to ask for a race date move, and got it, and now he's saying that a merger won't come quickly if at all...but yet CC is going BK, what's the missing link here? The races that KK has.
Maybe he's threatening Tony that he's selling them off to the ALMS unless Tony plays ball. Hmmm.

Depends on who owns the races...CCWS, C^RT, or KK/GF directly. Spickly's mention of the Elan peeps being in town migh tmean something, who knows. I'm not sure about ALMS owning venues, but who know these daze. My guess is that FTG is being low key, but I'm not an idiot and don't speak idiot, so I can't translate FTG's thinking. All I know is that is a lot of BS being spoken by the key players.

-Kevin

[Spicoli]

I'll bet there are 50 different LLCs in this mess, so prolly nothing of value is part of owrs/ccws whatever...

[Sean O'Gorman]

Please, there are at literally dozens of fans left. Maybe even over 100.

Maybe if we all chime in the petition to the amigos thread at CCF we can stop this thing! :gomer:

[Racing Truth]

The summer day is closed - the sun is set:
Well they have done their office, those bright hours,
The latest of whose train goes softly out
In the red west. The green blade of the ground
Has risen, and herds have cropped it; the young twig
Has spread its plaited tissues to the sun;
Flowers of the garden and the waste have blown
And withered; seeds have fallen upon the soil,
From bursting cells, and in their graves await
Their resurrection. Insects from the pools
Have filled the air awhile with humming wings,
That now are still for ever; painted moths
Have wandered the blue sky, and died again…
-William Cullen Bryant, An Evening Revery

[Indy]

^^^^^ Thanks, that is very beautiful.

[nrc]

What fans???

Are you not a Champ car enthusiast?

[Sean O'Gorman]

I am, but thats not relevent to the discussion. I could be the biggest Champ Car fan on the planet, but its not going to be enough to make the series sustainable, because there just aren't that many fans, period.

[Sean Malone]

I am, but thats not relevent to the discussion. I could be the biggest Champ Car fan on the planet, but its not going to be enough to make the series sustainable, because there just aren't that many fans, period.

How many total tickets were sold last year? Based on tickets and Nielson ratings I don't think it's a stretch to say there are about 1 million Champ Car fans in the US. WAG.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Champ Car fans, or people exposed to Champ Car?

Throwing out the Indy 500, I'd say that between Champ Car and the IRL, there might be 1 million seperate fans in this country.

[Sean Malone]

Champ Car fans, or people exposed to Champ Car?

Throwing out the Indy 500, I'd say that between Champ Car and the IRL, there might be 1 million seperate fans in this country.

I think actual ticket buyers and verified people watching the races account for being 'fans'. Exposed to Champ Car? Isn't everyone potentially 'exposed'?

[Sean O'Gorman]

I have about 4-5 relatives that go to the Cleveland GP every year, buy great seats, and spend all three days there (thus making it more like 12-15 relatives who go), but don't know who any of the drivers or sponsors are, and don't pay attention on TV or in the media until next June rolls around. Are they Champ Car fans?

[Sean Malone]

I have about 4-5 relatives that go to the Cleveland GP every year, buy great seats, and spend all three days there (thus making it more like 12-15 relatives who go), but don't know who any of the drivers or sponsors are, and don't pay attention on TV or in the media until next June rolls around. Are they Champ Car fans?

I would consider them fans.

I used to go to the county fair to look at huge pigs and see tractor pulls, am I a fan of pigs and tractors, not really, but to the fair I'm a fan, I bought a ticket.

[G.]

If only someone were here that had the wisdom to tell us who the "real fans" are...

[Sean Malone]

What if BK is a threat against Tony to lock up the LB contract. Hmm.

[Ankf00]

How many total tickets were sold last year? Based on tickets and Nielson ratings I don't think it's a stretch to say there are about 1 million Champ Car fans in the US. WAG.

Houston's the only one I've been to in a couple of years, but maybe 1 out of 20 were actual champ car fans there (or alms). Everyone else was there b/c of the novelty, or a fun weekend out. The number of folks w/ siginifcantly discounted, or straight comp'ed, passes was ridiculous

[Sean Malone]

Houston's the only one I've been to in a couple of years, but maybe 1 out of 20 were actual champ car fans there (or alms). Everyone else was there b/c of the novelty, or a fun weekend out. The number of folks w/ siginifcantly discounted, or straight comp'ed, passes was ridiculous

Ok, fine, but if they actually took their free tickets and went to the race, aren't they 'fans'? PT Barnum, Eddie Gossage and Humpy Wheeler would say "yes".

[Ankf00]

are they going to be tuning into Vegas, RA, LB, Toronto? are they going to boost your tv numbers over the .1-.3 range? do they give 2 ***** about the series once it leaves town?

[greenie]

What if BK is a threat against Tony to lock up the LB contract. Hmm.


The LB race is owned by Aquarium Assets (or whatever the LLC that KK and GF used) and has actual value.

Spicoli's post above is no doubt correct - the various assets like Long Beach that are owned by KK and GF are held by different companies that won't be BK'd when Champ Car goes poof.

[Spicoli]

The LB race is owned by Aquarium Assets (or whatever the LLC that KK and GF used) and has actual value.

Spicoli's post above is no doubt correct - the various assets like Long Beach that are owned by KK and GF are held by different companies that won't be BK'd when Champ Car goes poof.

thanks. what is your hourly fee for posts? :D

[greenie]

Sadly, less than Indycool's. :tony:

[Insomniac]

I think if you go to an event with no idea about CC, you aren't a fan. If you keep going back to the same event because you liked it (whether you buy the tickets or they are free) you at least like the event. I assume CC's goal isn't to get people to show up only for their home races but to also follow it on TV. They want to/need to first sell out races, then they have a chance to get people to follow the series year round even when they aren't in their backyard.

They have been failing at this for a long time. They change venues year after year, chasing fans who quickly become bored with the event. Their event sanctioning fees are basically gone. They have no TV rights fees either. It's been too expensive for the ROI for a long time now.

[cameraman]

All that's left is F1 and WRC, although I'm just guessing on the last one since I can't watch it. :shakehead

The WRC web site has free videos now. It is okay, at least you can follow what is happening.

And God knows you don't have to worry about seeing the results on an espn crawl or anything:irked:

[SurfaceUnits]

I put in my bids for CCWS assets today. Did any you get your bids in? :rofl:

[gjc2]

I put in my bids for CCWS assets today. Did any you get your bids in? :rofl:

I hope they list there assets on eBay. I have over $20 in my PayPal account!

George

[SurfaceUnits]

Meanwhile, Kalkhoven, contacted at his California home, insisted the bankruptcy reports were "absolutely wrong."

"I have no idea where this came from," he said.

[KLang]

Have ANY of the various rumors actually been confirmed?

[cameraman]

Have ANY of the various rumors actually been confirmed?

No. The only official anything this week came from Walker and he said he didn't know anything.

[nrc]

Political allusions aren't a good way to make a point on this forum. They tend to disappear.