View Full Version : Home Theater Audio/Video Problem
Santa loosened up the purse strings brought a new LCD TV to the house. We have a 46" Sony Bravia HD TV. We also made the jump and picked up a Sony Blu-Ray player. Visually, everything looks great. The sound - not so much.
So now we purchased a sound system. This was more difficult than the TV purchase. We have a Sony Tuner and picked up a set of Yamaha 5.1 speakers. This is for the family room, so we weren't looking to pay top dollar. The tuner is loaded with inputs and output. Herein lies the problem.
The tuner has 3 HDMI inputs and an HDMI output along with numerous other connections. Mr. Salesman says that using the multitude of HDMI inputs is not required. As per his suggestion, the current set up looks like this: HDMI directly from cable box to TV and another from Blu-Ray to TV. There are separate digital audio (optical) cables from the cable box to tuner and from Blu-Ray to tuner.
There is no problem when we have just the TV on. When we fire up the tuner for the tuner/speakers, there seems to be a barely noticeable problem with the audio/video sync. If you slowly turn the TV back up, you can here the echo effect. I don't think Mrs. Elmo or the kids even notice, but I can see/hear it when watching something like the news. It seems like the audio is a tad slower than the video.
Is this my imagination? The tuner does have an adjustment for audio/video syncing, but it gets worse when you select than function. Would sending the video signal through the tuner first elimination the problem? :confused:
oddlycalm
02-16-08, 07:43 PM
Switching the video signal at the receiver would eliminate the issue but you would very likely noticeably degrade your video signal. The reason the salesman suggested running the video straight into the display is because he knew that video switching in the receiver would make a visible difference in the picture quality. It would be a rare consumer level receiver that had a HDMI switcher that didn't slightly impair image quality. You may have to choose which hit you want to take.
oc
Rogue Leader
02-16-08, 08:10 PM
Try this. Turn off the TV sound and shut off the TV while leaving the cable box or blu-ray player on. Then turn the TV back on. The TV should always be turned on last and that _should_ sync the audio.
Try this. Turn off the TV sound ... and that _should_ sync the audio.
That didn't do it, but it was something I hadn't yet tried. :thumbup:
It is an entry level unit - I wasn't going to drop big bucks so the kids can watch Hannah Montana in surround sound. It is a Sony STR-DG510 with alledged HMDI pass through for 1080p. I haven't yanked it back out to rewire the cables using the tuner as the HDMI switch.
I can hook up 3 or 4 different brands of TV's in the shop, all tuned to the same digital channel and there will be a perceptable audio syncing difference between the units. All digital recievers (TV or AV) have certain delays built into the processing portion of the unit. There is no industry standard. As you've seen with your Sony there are internal adjustments to compensate but you're talking about 2 different units processing the same signal. You would do best to let the TV do all the signal processing to prevent the Audio lag.
Insomniac
02-16-08, 10:24 PM
You should try searching the AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/) for your particular receiver model. Or some threads about audio lag. The people there have a lot of experience with AV gear with plenty of AV-philes.
Sean Malone
02-16-08, 11:07 PM
You have to use thick speaker wire. Really thin wire squeezes the sound as it goes and it comes out of the speakers faster thus the delay discrepancy. It's just like a water hose.
That's why thick speaker wire is better. :D
Seriously though, I re-read your post, are you using HDMI for audio or are you using separate optical cables to run your audio for your cable box and DVD?
I've had better luck with running separate optical cables for each peripheral.
Also, check the delay settings on your head unit. They might have been changed when you were setting it up. If they weren't changed, they could fix your delay.
Like with anything...keep playing with it till it works. ;)
You would do best to let the TV do all the signal processing to prevent the Audio lag.
In English, this means to run audio from cable box -> TV -> audio/tuner -> speakers rather the set up recommended by the sales dude?
agree with Sean Malone.
Check the delay/distance settings for the speakers first.
Also, why aren't you running HDMI audio from the blu ray player to the receiver? If your receiver is capable of handling it, that would offer the best sound quality, much better than optical. If it can't handle it, analog outputs from the blu ray player to the receiver would also be better than optical. Optical cannot handle the newer HD audio formats.
Sean Malone
02-16-08, 11:26 PM
Also, turn your TV's audio off from the menu setting. Don't just turn it down.
Your cable box also has audio output settings. Confirm it is set to your configuration.
Seriously though, I re-read your post, are you using HDMI for audio or are you using separate optical cables to run your audio for your cable box and DVD?
I have HDMI from cable box to TV and another from DVD to TV. Audio is optical from cable to tuner and from DVD to TV - all this at this suggestion of the sale dude. The tuner does have multiple HDMI inputs and an HDMI out. I can use all HDMI and forget the audio cables? The manual says "the video quality may vary" when passing video through the tuner. :rolleyes:
Again, the picture is great - especially on the Blu-Ray.
Sean Malone
02-16-08, 11:52 PM
Your optical audio cables should run directly from each periph, i.e. cable box, DVD, game console, etc. to your tuner. One HDMI into your TV from your cable box, and another HDMI from your DVD into your TV. That is a total of four cables. Two HDMI, two optical audio. HDMI into TV, optical into tuner.
If that is what you are running and you are getting a delay, again, I would first verify delay settings on your tuner...verify TV audio settings. ..verify cable box audio settings. Turn off internal speakers on TV via menu.
If you are getting a a/v delay from your DVD and cable, I would assume it lies with the tuner which may be a delay setting. How do you have your speakers set up? Are you running 5.1 or up? If not do you have the audio setting set to 5.1+ but not running a center channel, rears etc?
The problem with the new HDTVs is they have so much processing going on to produce a picture, there is a lag time for all the calculations. The lag is probably greater than the lag found in the receiver. Two things you can try.
If you have a high end receiver, there is possibly a setting/adjustment where you can delay the sound. Without looking, I think my satillite setup is set for 250 ms delay.
The second option is to run the sound from the TV to the receiver. Most of the new sets have an optical out jack. Instead of running the sat box and dv to the receiver, simply run the sound coming out of the optical jack on the TV. The TV already accounts for any video delay so this should solve your problem.
Your optical audio cables should run directly from each periph, i.e. cable box, DVD, game console, etc. to your tuner. One HDMI into your TV from your cable box, and another HDMI from your DVD into your TV. That is a total of four cables. Two HDMI, two optical audio. HDMI into TV, optical into tuner.
That is my current set-up.
If that is what you are running and you are getting a delay, again, I would first verify delay settings on your tuner...verify TV audio settings. ..verify cable box audio settings. Turn off internal speakers on TV via menu.
If you are getting a a/v delay from your DVD and cable, I would assume it lies with the tuner which may be a delay setting. How do you have your speakers set up? Are you running 5.1 or up? If not do you have the audio setting set to 5.1+ but not running a center channel, rears etc?
I'll run through those set-ups this AM. The tuner does have an adjustment for AV sync/delay though I think turning that "ON" makes it worse. The tuner (Sony STR-DG510) and speakers (Yamaha 5.1) are set for the auto setting which apparently decides the output based on the audio input. I've also tried adjusting the output and while it changes the speakers, it doesn't seem to affect the audio sync.
how about you post some exact model numbers.
and what distances/delay did you set your speakers up to in the receiver?
how about you post some exact model numbers.
and what distances/delay did you set your speakers up to in the receiver?
The tuner has an auto calibrate function I ran once it was all set up. I didn't monkey with any specific settings beyond that and the audio selection.
that might be a problem. did you verify the distance/delay settings on the receiver? make sure they are right.
gerhard911
02-17-08, 03:26 PM
The second option is to run the sound from the TV to the receiver. Most of the new sets have an optical out jack. Instead of running the sat box and dv to the receiver, simply run the sound coming out of the optical jack on the TV. The TV already accounts for any video delay so this should solve your problem.
That is what I would recommend as well. Video & Sound from all sources to the TV over HDMI. Then audio from the TV to the receiver over optical.
Good Luck.
Could be wrong but I don't think the optical out is a pass-through. Isn't that for the output from the internal OTA tuner?
gerhard911
02-17-08, 09:33 PM
I don't know specifically for the Sony, but my parents' Sammy passes the analog audio from an attached VCR out over the optical to their A/V receiver.
Insomniac
02-18-08, 09:31 AM
I don't know specifically for the Sony, but my parents' Sammy passes the analog audio from an attached VCR out over the optical to their A/V receiver.
I think the Only 5.1 TV's are able to pass are from OTA. I'm pretty sure they can't pass anything besides 2 channel from an HDMI input. I also haven't seen any TV's with optical/digital inputs.
Also, quite a few receivers (at least 2007 models) that had HDMI switching/passthrough do not process audio over HDMI. It was only for the video part.
As Stu said, it would be helpful for you to post your actual model number for your TV, BR player, set top box and AV receiver.
As Stu said, it would be helpful for you to post your actual model number for your TV, BR player, set top box and AV receiver.
TV - Sony KDL 46W3000
Set Top Box is Verizon's (Motorola) FIOS HD/DVR Box QIP6416-2
BR Sony BDP S300
AV Receiver Sony STR DG510
I haven't had the opportunity to verify the distance settings - I ran everything thru the auto set-up. FWIW, it seems to be less noticeable (if at all) when running the BR player - the set top box seems to have bigger sync problem. I did check the audio settings on the set top box and it is set to surround (the only other choices being mono & stereo).
Technology makes things easier for us - right? ;)
gerhard911
02-20-08, 09:52 AM
Elmo T,
I found a copy of the owner’s manual for your Sony KDL 46W3000 online.
The descriptions of the inputs & outputs on page 13 includes these quotes.
Under HDMI IN:
“When connecting a HDMI control compatible audio system with HDMI jack be sure to also connect to the OPTICAL OUT jack.”
HDMI Control for BRAVIA Theatre Sync allows compatible Sony components to operate together off of a single remote (power on / input switching / channel / volume). See page 18 of the manual.
Then Under DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) :
“Connects to the optical audio input of your digital audio equipment that is PCM/Dolby Digital compatible. Dolby Digital Audio signal from the HDMI input will be output as PCM.”
It is unclear to me if this means 5.1 will be passed as PCM or if the audio will get downsampled to PCM stereo. Regardless, I would try this since it should be relatively easy to do.
From within the TV’s menu system (described on page 39 of the manual), under Audio Options – Speakers – you will want to select Audio System (this turns off the TV’s internal speakers).
I could not find any audio or video delay settings like my parent’s Samsung has which would allow for adjustment of the A/V sync. It appears that adjusting at the receiver would be your only alternative should the optical out to receiver not be an acceptable solution.
BTW Sony are a bunch of A-holes. The PDF of their owner’s manual is secured - no copy & paste allowed. I had to retype the quotes from it above. :irked: They probably have a team of Hawaiian lawyers tracing my IP as you read this to slap me with a copyright infringement lawsuit. :\
Thanks Gerhard...
When in doubt, read the insutrctions. ;)
I read through those sections and I thought it had more to do with using a single remote than the quality of the output.
I will remove the individual optical lines and run a single optical from TV to AV tuner.
As snow is coming, Hawaiian prison seems like an oxymoron. :D
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