View Full Version : It Is Finished
There are a lot of contracts in place on both sides that will make a 2008 merger ugly. Odds are that some races will run this year, but be gone in 2009. Other races will not run this year, but return in 2009.
There are a lot of contracts in place on both sides that will make a 2008 merger ugly. Odds are that some races will run this year, but be gone in 2009. Other races will not run this year, but return in 2009.
It will be extremely difficult to bring back a race after it skips a year.
Sean O'Gorman
02-20-08, 11:55 AM
It will be extremely difficult to bring back a race after it skips a year.
Not necessarily. Detroit, St. Petersburg, Houston, Road America, Mid-Ohio, etc. all have been removed from schedules, only to come back.
Lots of events take a year off only to return. If there's a long enough history, and enough of a local fanbase, a year off won't kill anything.
Sean Malone
02-20-08, 12:14 PM
I think only LB and OZ would be difficult to skip a year. everywhere else is flexible enough IMO.
Lots of events take a year off only to return. If there's a long enough history, and enough of a local fanbase, a year off won't kill anything.
Well, there is absolutely zero buzz for MO here in Cbus after it was resurrected. There was @ least a pulse for it when C^RT last raced there in '03. Now it barely registers a blip with the local media, and if Rahole was gone there wouldn't even be a blip.
-Kevin
Road America has never recovered. Last year was a huge improvement, but still not up to the early 2000's.
Sean Malone
02-20-08, 12:23 PM
Road America has never recovered. Last year was a huge improvement, but still not up to the early 2000's.
isn't that more of a reflection of the state of the sport, not that there was a lapse?
Methanolandbrats
02-20-08, 12:24 PM
Road America has never recovered. Last year was a huge improvement, but still not up to the early 2000's.
And if the IRL races there attendance will again decline because there is no way they will fill that place to watch 24 garbage trucks chug around the track.
cameraman
02-20-08, 01:32 PM
isn't that more of a reflection of the state of the sport, not that there was a lapse?
+1
DagoFast
02-20-08, 01:44 PM
You've been around racing for a while right? Not only is Penske an engine guy but he also has some experience in chassis design.
Now, have you known Penske to do anything that doesn't benefit Penske?
and do you think TG is smart enough to pull this "merger" together all by himself?
Judging by how messy this "merger" appears so far, I doubt RP has much of a hand in it.
JMHO, but I don't think Penske's team will be in full time OW racing much longer. One of his companies might be around to make any profits to be had, but I think, outside of the 500, he really doesn't care anymore. And I don't think he cares about the 500 like he used to either. He's already publicly stated his Daytona 500 victory meant much more.
As a ISC board member I'm sure he still has a certain interest in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
Sean Malone
02-20-08, 01:50 PM
Judging by how messy this "merger" appears so far, I doubt RP has much of a hand in it.
JMHO, but I don't think Penske's team will be in full time OW racing much longer. One of his companies might be around to make any profits to be had, but I think, outside of the 500, he really doesn't care anymore. And I don't think he cares about the 500 like he used to either. He's already publicly stated his Daytona 500 victory meant much more.
As a ISC board member I'm sure he still has a certain interest in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
Who can say but the man himself, but he still shows up in person for the lowliest of IRL races and he calls the shots for one of his cars.
he was on Speed with Miller and Despain talking about the 'merger' on Sunday. I didn't see it but those who did tell me that it sounded like he was involved in the negotiations.
SurfaceUnits
02-20-08, 03:42 PM
it sounded like he was involved in the negotiations.
ftg: do I sign there and initial here or do I sign here and there?
frp: no , you sign here and here and here, and initial there.
Sean O'Gorman
02-20-08, 03:48 PM
ftg: do I sign there and initial here or do I sign here and there?
frp: no , you sign here and here and here, and initial there.
"Does this need to be notarized?"
News conference Friday 11am gomer standard time.
http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=txindycarmerger&prov=st&type=lgns
amalgy-mation: :thumdown:
News conference Friday 11am gomer standard time.
http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=txindycarmerger&prov=st&type=lgns
amalgy-mation: :thumdown:
All your race are ours. :irked:
This would not be a merger of Champ Car and IndyCar because the IndyCar Series will be the only series in competition. And it is not technically an acquisition because IndyCar will not be acquiring the assets of Champ Car.
The proper term would be an "amalgamation," which means Champ Car closes up business and its teams join IndyCar.
The proper term should be assimilation. :(
-Kevin
shaggy_socal
02-20-08, 05:13 PM
ftg: do I sign there and initial here or do I sign here and there?
frp: no , you sign here and here and here, and initial there.
ftg: Wow, this ink is really thick and what's with the red coloring?
frp: Well..it's thicker than water that's for sure. Let's just say that it makes everything official.
Sean Malone
02-20-08, 05:16 PM
News conference Friday 11am gomer standard time.
http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=txindycarmerger&prov=st&type=lgns
amalgy-mation: :thumdown:
Should this have a new thread or should we wait until Friday to mourn CC?
Ozarkian
02-20-08, 05:16 PM
ftg: do I sign there and initial here or do I sign here and there?
frp: no , you sign here and here and here, and initial there.
Since its Tony George, the instructions should be "make your mark here."
opinionated ow
02-20-08, 05:23 PM
my biggest worries are cleveland and toronto. if you skip a year, chances are there won't be a chance to run them again....
Wheel-Nut
02-20-08, 05:24 PM
Judging by how messy this "merger" appears so far, I doubt RP has much of a hand in it.
. . . .
I thought I had read something, somewhere about Penske flying to Montegi with FTG. I can't find it now.
my biggest worries are cleveland and toronto. if you skip a year, chances are there won't be a chance to run them again....
Cleveland's prolly dead due to MO. Plus, they already have two course on airport layouts with St. Pete and Edmonton. Crapwagons on airport tracks is ust such a good fit, tho.... :gomer: :saywhat:
-Kevin
I thought I had read something, somewhere about Penske flying to Montegi with FTG. I can't find it now.
Never read that. FTG, Barnfart and Clarke is all saw mentioned.
-Kevin
Curry has been involved in the IndyCar Series since it was called the Indy Racing League in 1996,
Right, less a little time in a federal penitentiary... :shakehead
Spicoli
02-20-08, 05:29 PM
my biggest worries are cleveland and toronto. if you skip a year, chances are there won't be a chance to run them again....
what, worried your tickets will be no good? :gomer:
Sean Malone
02-20-08, 05:34 PM
All your race are ours. :irked:
The proper term should be assimilation. :(
-Kevin
I was thinking abomination.
what, worried your tickets will be no good? :gomer:
I just want to know whether my Race Director sub is still valid. :gomer:
-Kevin
I was thinking abomination.
Abomination/assimilation/amalgamation.....200/221, whatever it takes. :(
-Kevin
I was thinking abomination.
Abomination/assimilation/amalgamation.....200/221, whatever it takes. :( :saywhat:
-Kevin
Wheel-Nut
02-20-08, 07:06 PM
JPM -Houston 1998
what, worried your tickets will be no good? :gomer:
You can have mine.
JPM -Houston 1998
That was before Noah and his arc arrived on Sunday, right? :saywhat: :( :cry:
-Kevin
Tony George
02-21-08, 12:48 AM
JPM -Houston 1998
JPM sure looks like Jimmy Vasser! ;)
Spicoli
02-21-08, 02:25 AM
:thumbup:
JPM sure looks like Jimmy Vasser! ;)
him too. :D
Tracy say off again...
"All I know is that three days ago there was a plan for me to go get ready to drive an IRL car; that there was going to be a merger," he said. "Now (yesterday) I was told: 'Don't bother coming to Indy' because the balls are all back in the air."
The 2003 Champ Car champion said he's frustrated at what is, or is not, going on.
"I don't know what the hell is going on," Tracy said. "It seems to change from hour to hour. You hear from one person that a merger is done and the next person tells you it's not."
http://winnipegsun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2008/02/21/4864010-sun.html
Sean Malone
02-21-08, 10:09 AM
Tracy say off again...
http://winnipegsun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2008/02/21/4864010-sun.html
Great. :shakehead
Not to worry.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080221/SPORTS0107/802210498/1247/SPORTS
Still to be resolved is the April 19-20 weekend that currently shows an IRL race in Motegi, Japan, and a Champ Car race in Long Beach, Calif., the latter of which has a contract that must be executed.
Jim Michaelian, Long Beach Grand Prix president and chief executive officer, said Wednesday he is still awaiting unification notice and final details.
Michaelian said he is aware one option is to stage both races as planned. If that happens, Champ Car's teams and its cars would go to Long Beach and its participants would receive the same number of points as the IRL drivers receive for racing in Japan.
Methanolandbrats
02-21-08, 10:21 AM
Relax Paul, you'll get chance to crash something later this spring. :D
Wheel-Nut
02-21-08, 10:25 AM
That was before Noah and his arc arrived on Sunday, right?
Yes.
JPM sure looks like Jimmy Vasser!
Doh!! Yes Jimmy Vasser. I guess JPM was still in F3000 in '98.
So........if LBGP is run with DP01`s and is an Indy Car points race...WE WIN!!!!
:D
Racing Truth
02-21-08, 11:47 AM
Tracy say off again...
http://winnipegsun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2008/02/21/4864010-sun.html
:shakehead The idiocy in this sport continues to astound.
So, Honda said no? Why?
Spicoli
02-21-08, 12:01 PM
:shakehead The idiocy in this sport continues to astound.
So, Honda said no? Why?
I would pay more attention to the local Indy media than canuckistan papers.
Ed_Severson
02-21-08, 12:55 PM
So, Honda said no? Why?
The FIA said no, because moving Motegi to October to partner with Surfer's would violate an agreement between the FIA and ACCUS not to interfere with the Japanese Grand Prix, which is October 12th.
Just pay the ****ing LBGP $5 mil and send everybody to Motegi. Two races officiated by two completely different groups of people and subject to two completely different sets of rules is asinine.
Just pay the ****ing LBGP $5 mil and send everybody to Motegi. Two races officiated by two completely different groups of
people and subject to two completely different sets of rules is asinine.
Not as asinine as the notion that the LBGP event should be cancelled instead of an event nobody outside of Honda gives a crap about. :shakehead
Tony George
02-21-08, 01:25 PM
Not to worry.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080221/SPORTS0107/802210498/1247/SPORTS
Why not send Danicant and Special Ed to Montegi to race, and everyone else goes to LB? This way Danica finally wins her race (maybe?) and we have a merger. :tony:
DagoFast
02-21-08, 01:28 PM
This thing is starting out better than Lisa Marie Pressley's marriage to Michael Jackson! :laugh:
Ed_Severson
02-21-08, 01:34 PM
Not as asinine as the notion that the LBGP event should be cancelled instead of an event nobody outside of Honda gives a crap about. :shakehead
Oh, sure. Let's piss off Honda ... that'll be great for business! :tony:
Running Long Beach serves no real purpose for a merged series other than fulfilling a contract obligation. Doing it with a 12-car grid in equipment nobody will ever use again would be far more insulting than not running it at all.
Wheel-Nut
02-21-08, 01:48 PM
Would any of the current earl teams have the balls to skip Motegi and show up at LB in borrowed equipment?
Ed_Severson
02-21-08, 01:53 PM
Would any of the current earl teams have the balls to skip Motegi and show up at LB in borrowed equipment?
Why would they? To spend money that was just laying around begging to be spent?
Running both events simultaneously will be a mistake. Any Champ Car teams that can get it together in time to run the full IRL schedule -- Walker, NHLR, PKV, and maybe even Minardi and a one-car team from Coyne -- will go to Motegi to get mileage with their new equipment. The only other alternative is for somebody to spend a ton of money paying those guys to come to Long Beach and run -- probably more than it would take to simply cut a check to Jim Michaelian to eliminate the LBGP's troubles from not running the 2008 event.
Spicoli
02-21-08, 02:15 PM
Why would they? To spend money that was just laying around begging to be spent?
Running both events simultaneously will be a mistake. Any Champ Car teams that can get it together in time to run the full IRL schedule -- Walker, NHLR, PKV, and maybe even Minardi and a one-car team from Coyne -- will go to Motegi to get mileage with their new equipment. The only other alternative is for somebody to spend a ton of money paying those guys to come to Long Beach and run -- probably more than it would take to simply cut a check to Jim Michaelian to eliminate the LBGP's troubles from not running the 2008 event.
Stunt doubles for MoNtegi.
Racing Truth
02-21-08, 02:16 PM
This thing is starting out better than Lisa Marie Pressley's marriage to Michael Jackson! :laugh:
:thumbup: :rofl:
Ed: Would the LBGP folks, IYO, accept a check for this yr.? Maybe they're insisting on an event irregardless?
Whole thing is dumb. Cancel one and move on already.:shakehead
extramundane
02-21-08, 02:22 PM
Ed: Would the LBGP folks, IYO, accept a check for this yr.? Maybe they're insisting on an event irregardless?
Then move ALMS to Sunday headliner, add a 2nd Atlantic and/or WCGT race on Saturday and be done with it.
Just when you think they can't get any more stupid, they go and prove you wrong. :shakehead
Ed_Severson
02-21-08, 02:23 PM
Ed: Would the LBGP folks, IYO, accept a check for this yr.?
Don't have any idea. I would imagine that if somebody dangled one big enough in front of them, they'd take it. Either way, I think if they go forward with their event for 2008, they're going to wish they hadn't by the end of the weekend.
cameraman
02-21-08, 02:29 PM
Then move ALMS to Sunday headliner, add a 2nd Atlantic and/or WCGT race on Saturday and be done with it.
ALMS has a Sunday ABC time slot for a taped (shortened) version of the race. I doubt that the ALMS is interested in screwing with ABC.
Racing Truth
02-21-08, 02:32 PM
Don't have any idea. I would imagine that if somebody dangled one big enough in front of them, they'd take it. Either way, I think if they go forward with their event for 2008, they're going to wish they hadn't by the end of the weekend.
Agreed. Is there anything binding the teams (Walker, NHL, PKV, etc.) to LB, in the contractual sense? I understand the series has one, but the teams could, and should honestly, say, "Eh, no thanks. Why waste our time?"
Unless, of course, they're given "incentives" to do otherwise.;)
Spicoli
02-21-08, 02:33 PM
ALMS has a Sunday ABC time slot for a taped (shortened) version of the race. I doubt that the ALMS is interested in screwing with ABC.
{Captain EARL]
Maybe ABC final;ly decides to become the "partner" they so daringly describe themselves as...[/SuperD mode}
:p
Ed_Severson
02-21-08, 02:34 PM
ALMS has a Sunday ABC time slot for a taped (shortened) version of the race. I doubt that the ALMS is interested in screwing with ABC.
ABC is also the broadcaster for all IRL and Champ Car events. I think they'd be willing to find a way to make it work if running the ALMS race on Sunday removed one impediment to an open-wheel merger. I hear there's an open slot on ESPN2 at about 5 PM that day. ;)
Ed_Severson
02-21-08, 02:38 PM
Agreed. Is there anything binding the teams (Walker, NHL, PKV, etc.) to LB, in the contractual sense? I understand the series has one, but the teams could, and should honestly, say, "Eh, no thanks. Why waste our time?"
Unless, of course, they're given "incentives" to do otherwise.;)
I don't think any of the teams could be compelled to go. If there are any teams that can't get an IRL program ready before Indy, I could see them participating, and I could honestly see Forsythe and Rocketspurts doing it out of spite, but any of the serious candidates to run IndyCar fulltime in 2008 will -- and should -- either go to Motegi or make sure Gerry makes it more than worthwhile to run Long Beach.
stroker
02-21-08, 03:14 PM
the situation is the whole reason for the phrase "cluster****" to be created.
Don Quixote
02-21-08, 05:01 PM
Why not send Danicant and Special Ed to Montegi to race, and everyone else goes to LB? This way Danica finally wins her race (maybe?) and we have a merger. :tony:
She would finish second, and blame her pit crew. :laugh:
Insomniac
02-22-08, 11:13 AM
Not done yet:
The IRL and the Champ Car World Series issued a joint statement just before midnight on Friday confirming that negotiations have not yet reached a resolution.
"The ongoing talks between the Indy Racing League and Champ Car World Series will continue into at least Friday in regards to the unification of open-wheel racing," the statement reads. "Any confirmation of unification will be made once an agreement is in place. There are no plans for a news conference at this time. Much progress has been made toward unifying the sport."
Another interesting note was about additional test days for CC teams at Homestead in March.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=1&id=3258382
Spicoli
02-22-08, 11:52 AM
CCWS is agreeing to sell everything they have to EARL, including intellectual property, warehouse contents, archival data, etc.
PLUS, they agree never to start an openwheel series again in the US. I sure hope to **** that Tony is writing one bigassed check for all of this.
:shakehead :thumdown:
Sean O'Gorman
02-22-08, 11:53 AM
Intellectual property? Did,,,they r,,un this pas,,t a ,,,patent,,atorney first?
Methanolandbrats
02-22-08, 12:01 PM
PLUS, they agree never to start an openwheel series again in the US.
:shakehead :thumdown: FTG repeatedly with a dry, splintered 4x4 :mad:
extramundane
02-22-08, 12:06 PM
CCWS is agreeing to sell everything they have to EARL, including intellectual property, warehouse contents, archival data, etc.
PLUS, they agree never to start an openwheel series again in the US. I sure hope to **** that Tony is writing one bigassed check for all of this.
:shakehead :thumdown:
The intellectual property thing is total BS, but I've actually got no problem with the current bunch of assclowns being barred from starting a new series. If someone's going to fire up a new series, I'd rather it be someone who actually understands the importance of a TV deal or that PR should be done by professionals, not forum posters. :\
Ruben Barrios
02-22-08, 12:16 PM
The intellectual property thing is total BS
The intellectual property thing was BS from the getgo... When the drivers and teams decided to follow the white paper, they should have done so without intellectual property... the intellectual property belongs in the history books!!!
Spicoli
02-22-08, 12:20 PM
The intellectual property thing is total BS, but I've actually got no problem with the current bunch of assclowns being barred from starting a new series. If someone's going to fire up a new series, I'd rather it be someone who actually understands the importance of a TV deal or that PR should be done by professionals, not forum posters. :\
yes and No and yes.
i think.:D
Methanolandbrats
02-22-08, 12:28 PM
The intellectual property thing is total BS, but I've actually got no problem with the current bunch of assclowns being barred from starting a new series. If someone's going to fire up a new series, I'd rather it be someone who actually understands the importance of a TV deal or that PR should be done by professionals, not forum posters. :\ Your assclown theory will be tested over the next decade because the biggest assclown in the history of business will have sole control of open wheel....there will NOTHING left in ten years.
TravelGal
02-22-08, 12:53 PM
CCWS is agreeing to sell everything they have to EARL, including intellectual property, warehouse contents, archival data, etc.
PLUS, they agree never to start an openwheel series again in the US. I sure hope to **** that Tony is writing one bigassed check for all of this.
:shakehead :thumdown:
I keep thinking that nothing can hurt me more about this but that post did. Selling the intellectual property rights is tough but NEVER to start another series? I guess the question is who is the "they" that is agreeing to this? Forsythe presumably. He's the only one that would have the clout or the interest to do it.
Methanolandbrats
02-22-08, 12:56 PM
I keep thinking that nothing can hurt me more about this but that post did. Selling the intellectual property rights is tough but NEVER to start another series? I guess the question is who is the "they" that is agreeing to this? Forsythe presumably. He's the only one that would have the clout or the interest to do it. You're right, he's probably having a little trouble keeping that clause down. :D
DagoFast
02-22-08, 01:03 PM
Bah, just a formality insisted on by the IMS legal team.
Why would an agreement to never start another series bother KK or GF? They know they blew the shot they had big time. And who on earth would ever join either of them in another revolution after they botched this one? Surely both of them are smart enough to know that in their hearts and their heads?
there will NOTHING left in ten years.
What's the over under? I'm gonna go with five. George is still a complete idiot, the owners are still a bunch of self-serving morons, what's left of an aging fan base is going, going, gone, the "crown jewel" is a shadow of its former self, sponsors have zero interest, Honda has one foot out the door and they'll never be able to break NASCAR's grip on North American motorsport.
Kalkhoven's m.o. seems to be cashing out before it hits the fan. If he got TG to pay for a pile of rubble more power to him.
extramundane
02-22-08, 01:32 PM
Your assclown theory will be tested over the next decade because the biggest assclown in the history of business will have sole control of open wheel....there will NOTHING left in ten years.
You're probably right, and it may not take 10 years. But at this point, I'd rather see it all burned to the ground and restarted by someone else, rather than TG or The "4 Brothers" (gag) trying to stitch it together and coming up with the late-term abortion we're soon to receive.
And if Forsythe really got the jones to start something up, I suspect this wouldn't prevent him. A couple of silent frontmen, a trail of LLCs and a little smoke & mirrors would allow him to play Oz from behind the curtain.
Bah, just a formality insisted on by the IMS legal team.
Why would an agreement to never start another series bother KK or GF? They know they blew the shot they had big time. And who on earth would ever join either of them in another revolution after they botched this one? Surely both of them are smart enough to know that in their hearts and their heads?
true, but's kinda like a punishment thing. "I did a BAD thing, and I promise not to do it again.":thumdown:
Insomniac
02-23-08, 11:32 AM
You're probably right, and it may not take 10 years. But at this point, I'd rather see it all burned to the ground and restarted by someone else, rather than TG or The "4 Brothers" (gag) trying to stitch it together and coming up with the late-term abortion we're soon to receive.
And if Forsythe really got the jones to start something up, I suspect this wouldn't prevent him. A couple of silent frontmen, a trail of LLCs and a little smoke & mirrors would allow him to play Oz from behind the curtain.
If the combined series can't be a commercial success, no new series will be either.
If GF really wanted to run CC in the way you think, PG would've supported him, even if KK didn't. We know PG didn't want a merger.
Racing Truth
02-23-08, 02:40 PM
If the combined series can't be a commercial success, no new series will be either.
If GF really wanted to run CC in the way you think, PG would've supported him, even if KK didn't. We know PG didn't want a merger.
Yep. And, if some suggest, everything is blown up in the hopes of a new Phoenix rising from the ashes, sorry, not buying it. This sport doesn't have enough cache to withstand total destruction. No one will care to see another new entity try to resurrect it.
Again, the best answer might be to blow it up and move on with our lives, but that's a different debate.
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