It Is Finished

[coolhand]

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/report-champ-car-indycar-deal-done/

hahah sTreet raCinG LoOSers.

[rosawendel]

here we go roundy-round.

[chop456]

And the stupid shall inherit the Earth. :thumbup:

:confederateflag:

[TravelGal]

Excellent thread title. Sums up how I feel.

Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

[opinionated ow]

What happens to Formula Atlantic?

[Spicoli]

At least we have each other.

http://i28.tinypic.com/5d45r7.jpg

[KLang]

Ick, I accidently clicked on a Miller link. :yuck: Why all of the sudden would his stuff be accurate?

However, if IT is finished then so is my interest in the sport. :irked:

[mueber]

Been nice knowing you. See you all again in about ten years.

[Chitowncartfreak]

Mark the date - 2/19/08. The day my interest in open wheel racing ended. The sadness I feel now is a validation that I'll never be able to support anything that resembles the .1RL. Thank you to CART and ChampCar for building open wheel racing into a world class series - and up yours FTG for turning it into something nobody cares about.

Always a ChampCar fan. My loyalty is not for sale.

[Sean Malone]

Drivers come and go, as do teams, tracks, sponsors and beach vollyball players, but for me, i was drawn to the sport for the car. The Champ Car is history and that bums me out.

My interest going forward will depend on what car/engine they choose next year (or is it '10?).

I'm not holding my breath though. In the 12 years of the IRL, every single one of their cars has been an offense to eyes and ears. If Tony had put a gorgeous car with a sweet sounding engine on the track 10 years ago things may have happened then instead of now. Aesthetics play a big part.

Maybe INdy might bring some attention back to the sport now. I can imagine that the phones will be busy after the press conference..."hello sponsor? Remember when you said you would only come on board if there was one series? Well it just so happens..."

RIP Champ Car. I've got photo albums full of 'at the races' memories. The only thing that never changes is the fact that things will always change. Except Spicoli. He'll never change. :)

*hoping for a good car next year*.

[nrc]

“I’m supposed to fly in Indy later this week to get fitted for a seat and then we’re going to have to thrash to make it to the first test in Homestead,” said Tracy, the winningest active driver in Champ Car and its premier personality. “We don’t have any experience with those crapwagons and we’re going to need all the practice we can get but this is definitely the best thing that can happen for open-wheel racing.”
There, fixed it for you.

[Audi_A4]

Champcar has been dead for a while, its great to see the 2 series together even if TG is in control. The split ruined what was once the greatest sport but its time to move on.

[rosawendel]

set the DVR for F-1 and I'll see you in Sebring. Bring on ALMS.

[Indy]

I feel like I have been mourning this thing for two weeks now. Let's have the freaking funeral and get on with life.

[Andrew Longman]

What SeanM said.

[Methanolandbrats]

Champcar has been dead for a while, its great to see the 2 series together even if TG is in control. The split ruined what was once the greatest sport but its time to move on. Ya, it's just great. All it means is that there will be eight more slow, ugly *****oxes droning around in formation. WGAF.

[anait]

I'm making this into a week-long wake. I need a drink.

[nrc]

Champcar has been dead for a while, its great to see the 2 series together even if TG is in control. The split ruined what was once the greatest sport but its time to move on.

Tony George ruined it an he'll continue to ruin it.

[Sean Malone]

Now do we find out who BiF really is?

I've been waiting patiently all this time. LOL!!

[Andrew Longman]

Tony George ruined it an he'll continue to ruin it.

Here's the thing to keep in perspective. Outside of a few internet forums and the IndyStar this "merger" will not make one blip in the media. At best it will get one inch of AP copy in my paper and a 15 second mention on Sportscenter. Story over in less than one newscycle.

That will be it. No one cares.

[Sean Malone]

I hope someone had the forethought of keeping a camera on AJ throwing a "damned fit". :)

[Insomniac]

I actually feel a little sad. Pretty much because of the crapwagons they'll be driving. I also realized "my" drivers are now going to be racing in a series that many joke about the "big one" happening any time.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Here's the thing to keep in perspective. Outside of a few internet forums and the IndyStar this "merger" will not make one blip in the media. At best it will get one inch of AP copy in my paper and a 15 second mention on Sportscenter. Story over in less than one newscycle.

That will be it. No one cares.

Actually, I think they picked the perfect day to announce it. Seriously, with the NBA on all-star break,aside from college basketball and NHL, what sports news is there to report on?

[Sean O'Gorman]

I, for one, am relieved. TG may be a moron, but unfortunately a merged series with him in control is more likely to resemble the CART of the 90s that I miss, while Champ Car continued to be nearly unwatchable.

HD, nicer looking cars, two races in Ohio, legitimate bumping at Indy, and actual, non-Indycentric marketing will go a long way towards renewing my interest. We'll see, I guess.

[anait]

Here's the thing to keep in perspective. Outside of a few internet forums and the IndyStar this "merger" will not make one blip in the media. At best it will get one inch of AP copy in my paper and a 15 second mention on Sportscenter. Story over in less than one newscycle.

That will be it. No one cares.


I actually feel a little sad. Pretty much because of the crapwagons they'll be driving. I also realized "my" drivers are now going to be racing in a series that many joke about the "big one" happening any time.

For me, 'keeping it in perspective' misses the point. It's about quality. And about actually understanding what kind of business/product you're providing.

If these were two comparable series, if it was about Macintosh apples joining with Spartan apples to make a kickass pie, with the growers and bakers and pie plate makers all committed to creating the best product to satisfy the starving dessert enthusiast, fine.

Instead, we'll have a tasteless, featureless mess, mashed together by a cook who hasn't got a CLUE...who doesn't see the difference between perfect apples and ground-rotted ones, between a perfectly proportioned and tempered pan and some piece of tin from the sandbox, who could read all the cookbooks and attend all the cooking classes and still not learn a thing, who assumes that a pie is a pie, that all ingredients are the same, that anything can get thrown together and served, and people will automatically say, 'Mmm, yummy! This is good!'

"This is boring." << When the chef says that about his own product, well, really, get rid of the chef.

Yeah, okay. Enough with the stupid pastry analogies. Now I have to find a different mid-morning snack.

[Racing Truth]

I, for one, am relieved. TG may be a moron, but unfortunately a merged series with him in control is more likely to resemble the CART of the 90s that I miss, while Champ Car continued to be nearly unwatchable.

HD, nicer looking cars, two races in Ohio, legitimate bumping at Indy, and actual, non-Indycentric marketing will go a long way towards renewing my interest. We'll see, I guess.

Indeed. This is not the end we wanted, but it is the end we have.

Will the future lead to a new beginning or just the same IRL? If its the former, I'm in; the latter will a) never succeed and b) be tough to swallow.

As I posted days ago:

The summer day is closed - the sun is set:
Well they have done their office, those bright hours,
The latest of whose train goes softly out
In the red west. The green blade of the ground
Has risen, and herds have cropped it; the young twig
Has spread its plaited tissues to the sun;
Flowers of the garden and the waste have blown
And withered; seeds have fallen upon the soil,
From bursting cells, and in their graves await
Their resurrection. Insects from the pools
Have filled the air awhile with humming wings,
That now are still for ever; painted moths
Have wandered the blue sky, and died again…
-William Cullen Bryant, An Evening Revery

[indyfan31]

Here's the thing to keep in perspective. Outside of a few internet forums and the IndyStar this "merger" will not make one blip in the media. At best it will get one inch of AP copy in my paper and a 15 second mention on Sportscenter. Story over in less than one newscycle.

That will be it. No one cares.

Not even a mention in last night's local "sports wrap-up"

[cart7]

I'll reserve comment till an actual announcement. :saywhat:

[Audi_A4]

Tony George ruined it an he'll continue to ruin it.

There is no doubt in my mind that Tony George has ruined it but Champcar has been dead for a while this is just putting an end to the misery.

[dando]

I hope someone had the forethought of keeping a camera on AJ throwing a "damned fit". :)

Serenity now! Serenity now! :gomer:

-Kevin

[WestMcLarenF1]

There's always room for you guys and gals in the NASCAR/F1 tent.........:thumbup: .....come on in, take your shoes off, enjoy the racing.

[Spicoli]

Evidently the CCWS management braintrust is telling the employees RM is full of crap.

I still say its over, with PKV to announce their abandonment of the series today or tomorrow. I suspect GF or DW will be next, and the thing will just default into oblivion.

Seems like Bachelart is on board too.

[nrc]

I, for one, am relieved. TG may be a moron, but unfortunately a merged series with him in control is more likely to resemble the CART of the 90s that I miss, while Champ Car continued to be nearly unwatchable.

They had some excellant races last season. Your criteria for "unwatchable" is inconsistent at best.

[Sean Malone]

Evidently the CCWS management braintrust is telling the employees RM is full of crap.

I still say its over, with PKV to announce their abandonment of the series today or tomorrow. I suspect GF or DW will be next, and the thing will just default into oblivion.

Seems like Bachelart is on board too.

A default is even worse news IMO. Even though there is hardly any 'merger' aspects with RM's news.

[G.]

For me, 'keeping it in perspective' misses the point. It's about quality. And about actually understanding what kind of business/product you're providing.

If these were two comparable series, if it was about Macintosh apples joining with Spartan apples to make a kickass pie, with the growers and bakers and pie plate makers all committed to creating the best product to satisfy the starving dessert enthusiast, fine.

Instead, we'll have a tasteless, featureless mess, mashed together by a cook who hasn't got a CLUE...who doesn't see the difference between perfect apples and ground-rotted ones, between a perfectly proportioned and tempered pan and some piece of tin from the sandbox, who could read all the cookbooks and attend all the cooking classes and still not learn a thing, who assumes that a pie is a pie, that all ingredients are the same, that anything can get thrown together and served, and people will automatically say, 'Mmm, yummy! This is good!'

"This is boring." << When the chef says that about his own product, well, really, get rid of the chef.

Yeah, okay. Enough with the stupid pastry analogies. Now I have to find a different mid-morning snack.

mmmmm. Pie.

All of RM quotes from owners and principles start with "I think" or somesuch.

I'll wait. No question that something's afoot, but I'll wait.

Until then, there's always pie.

[G.]

They had some excellant races last season. This is true. It was sort of sad to see a GREAT product on the tube and at the track, knowing that CCWS wasn't in great shape.

[mueber]

For me it's ultimately about Tony George. No matter how good the product is, and I doubt the product will be very good, to do business with a man who personifies everything I hate about the over-privileged and self-absorbed, would make me as much of a hypocrite as he is. I prefer not to participate.

[Easy]

For me it's ultimately about Tony George. No matter how good the product is, and I doubt the product will be very good, to do business with a man who personifies everything I hate about the over-privileged and self-absorbed, would make me as much of a hypocrite as he is. I prefer not to participate.

You don't like most of the drivers either?

[Sean Malone]

For me it's ultimately about Tony George. No matter how good the product is, and I doubt the product will be very good, to do business with a man who personifies everything I hate about the over-privileged and self-absorbed, would make me as much of a hypocrite as he is. I prefer not to participate.

I think my emotions will really show when I turn on Long Beach and see IRL banners, Danika shmoozing the Hollywood B & C list stars, slow crapwagons fumbling around the track, Tony's smirking mug on TV saying how happy he is that Champ Car "saw the light and came over to the IRL" and Scott Goodyear talking.

Like a freakin' bad dream. Make that a nightmare.

Not a pretty picture.

[JLMannin]

I don't think we will know for sure until it is time to set up the Long Beach course.

edit:
Article from the Indy Star, just a conclusive as Millers latest http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080219/SPORTS0107/802190444

[Ed_Severson]

Evidently the CCWS management braintrust is telling the employees RM is full of crap.

I still say its over, with PKV to announce their abandonment of the series today or tomorrow. I suspect GF or DW will be next, and the thing will just default into oblivion.

Seems like Bachelart is on board too.

Finding a little bit of this hard to believe. I would have to imagine that Forsythe would be the absolute last to go, but perhaps he's decided that it's inevitable and the sooner they get started the better off they'll be. And Bachelart? Not surprising that he's on board with a unified series, but surprising that he can afford it.

I gotta think Dale will find a way to make the grid with Bruno, and Stoddart has to have something planned. Who knows with Rocketsports ... hate to see them go out of business for the sake of the employees, but a unified series without Gentilozzi in the paddock would be a big step in the right direction, IMO.

I'm hangin' on until 2010 ... the new spec will be a big telltale for me. I also think the 2009 schedule will be very important -- adding a couple strong Champ Car events like Toronto and Cleveland and making an effort to get Road America on a unified schedule will be a big step, as would dropping small markets and perennial losers like Iowa and Richmond.

[Wheel-Nut]

Drivers come and go, as do teams, tracks, sponsors and beach vollyball players, but for me, i was drawn to the sport for the car. The Champ Car is history and that bums me out.

My interest going forward will depend on what car/engine they choose next year (or is it '10?).

. . . . .
*hoping for a good car next year*.


WOW!!! I actually agree with you. I never would have bet that ever happening. :eek: :eek:

It's never been about the drivers for me, it has always been about the cars.

Remember those first year earl cars with the 90 degree cranks? :yuck:

[JT265]

~snip~
I'm hangin' on until 2010 ... the new spec will be a big telltale for me. I also think the 2009 schedule will be very important -- adding a couple strong Champ Car events like Toronto and Cleveland and making an effort to get Road America on a unified schedule will be a big step, as would dropping small markets and perennial losers like Iowa and Richmond.

Gotta agree, except I wonder if Toronto tanks this year if the city will even get behind a mergified series.

[Ed_Severson]

That's a valid concern for any venue that doesn't end up on the 2008 schedule, I think. Suspending operations for a year while you lobby for inclusion in 2009 cannot be good for business, but hopefully the players will push for the inclusion of as many of the traditional markets as possible.

I don't expect that we'll be lucky enough to get Laguna, Portland, Road America, Toronto, Cleveland, and Surfer's all on the same schedule, but I think there should be an effort to keep as many as possible. With the IRL already running in Sonoma, Laguna is probably out, and Portland would be the next to be cut, I think, but the rest could make it for '09 and beyond. I'd really like to see Watkins Glen come off the schedule but I suspect the IRL will want to hang onto it to keep a presence in the northeast. Whether Mexico will be an important market remains to be seen, but Forsythe will no doubt make it a priority. Lanigan says he's hopeful that both of his events will be considered for '09, but hopefully they take Cleveland and tell him to go fly a kite with Houston.

Ah, merger/capitulation. At the end of the day, it's just a new set of problems to be solved and/or ignored. It'll be really interesting to see how this all shakes out.

[Andrew Longman]

Gotta agree, except I wonder if Toronto tanks this year if the city will even get behind a mergified series.

Cleveland too. And Houston.

And it isn't just the city govt., its the local fans. Skip a year and the event feels tainted and people find something else to do. Most of the local fans I've met at Cleveland for example come to the race every year but don't follow the series much if at all the rest of the year.

As is to be expected, TG and the CC crew have managed to do this several years too late and in a way that leverages ANY of the small opportunities left to build it into something bigger than the parts.

Done this way at few IRListas will dance on CCs grave for a few days, but other than that no one will care.

The cars suck

The schedule sucks

The TV product is unbearable

Marquee events are off the schedule

The whole thing is just thrown together

CC teams will be at a serious disadvantage in their lack of testing and experience with the new car.

Most important, there is nothing about the end product that will bring more sponsor value. If this is the crap we end up with CART teams could have just capitulated 4-8 years ago.

08 is a lost season. Perhaps 09 will bring a more attractive schedule. If they were smart they would scrap or slow the development of the next IRL chassis and convert to the DP01 and turbos for 09-11 or 12. It would save money, improve the product and create some reason for CC fans to revisit the IRL. But I have zero reason to believe they will do anything smart.

[murchman]

Wow it's about time but I think it's too late. I have already given up open wheel racing in America and I think most of America has as well. The sad thing is I just don't care anymore and if the IRL folded tomorrow I would feel the same way.

Heres hoping that some how in the future they make the sport great again and draw me back in but I am not counting on that as long as that idiot is in charge of anything.

[Ed_Severson]

If they were smart they would scrap or slow the development of the next IRL chassis and convert to the DP01 and turbos for 09-11 or 12. It would save money ...

Gotta disagree here. As much as I would love to see them run the DP01 in place of the current IRL *****ox, doing so would be yet another huge investment for the teams and would be an enormous waste of money. The best thing they can do is create an interesting spec for 2010 and just hang on until then.

[momotan]

Let's not forget that we are talking about the same cast of characters that ran this thing into the ground are all still around. They are just occupying different seats now. FTG gets his wish and is now grand poobah. And so? Does he think that Penske is not going to cheat or hold those ilmore's and that detroit connection/race over his head now? Does he think Haas isn't going to finagle a parts supply deal with the next chassis supplier? Does he think Andretti is going to stop whining? Does he think Lanigan isn't going to con him into running his races? Does he think ISC will call him and congratulate him? He's not a France and certainly not a Bernie. It's all the same BS floating in the toilet. Nothing has changed besides being under one roof again. The team owners will do what they have always done best, look out for themselves, seize power by holding key parts of the puzzle (Penske and AGR already started this a fews years ago) and play games of extortion. This thing is headed exactly where CART was. The pro Indy faction will complain that ovals are being dropped and too much furreners are involved and the team owners will complain too much focus on Indy is costing them money in the grand scheme. It's only a matter of time before something happens and someone takes their ball to another series or tries another revolt.

The good news in the short term is ISC will be pulling those races as their contracts expire to add to the flops at Pheonix, Michigan, California and Pikes Peak. Those races will be replaced by the CC races or new street races. Foyt will pitch a fit and eventually run Indy only and that dick Gentilozzi who is even now trying to scuttle things will be done. He can crawl back to Trans Am. Oh yeah, that's dead thanks to him and his pal SJ too. But that's the short term. 5 years down the line, I don't see this being in any better shape or any of the fundamental issues resolved.

[Andrew Longman]

The best thing they can do is create an interesting spec for 2010 and just hang on until then.

Hang on? Hang on to what?

As it is, a suckass 08 will sap interest in 09.

Regardless if Honda wants to stay around in 09 they have a 2.65 turbo in the box. So does Ilmore for that matter. My reckoning all could be had for the same or less than the current Honda leases. Even the most faithful IRL fans aren't in love with the sound of their lumps and even complain they are too loud while the CC crowd and Indy purist would be pleased in going with the traditional Indy tubo sound. There is zero reason not to go with turbos except that the Dallaras have that huge airbox.

As for the chassis the Dallaras are already past their expiration date. Somebody has to buy something whether it is CC teams buying Dallaras or IRL teams buying Panozes or TG buying whatever for both. Might as well buy the newer, better chassis and put off the expense of developing a new chassis until it is better known how this whole merger thing is going to work out.

[Chiphead_Dave]

I don't expect that we'll be lucky enough to get Laguna, Portland, Road America, Toronto, Cleveland, and Surfer's all on the same schedule, but I think there should be an effort to keep as many as possible.

Ed,

I want some of what you are taking because it is working well.

Long Beach will be kept because it has always been FTG's wet dream.

The Aussie race probably as well.

Everything else is probably gone.

Dave

[Methanolandbrats]

Hang on? Hang on to what?

As it is, a suckass 08 will sap interest in 09.

Regardless if Honda wants to stay around in 09 they have a 2.65 turbo in the box. So does Ilmore for that matter. My reckoning all could be had for the same or less than the current Honda leases. Even the most faithful IRL fans aren't in love with the sound of their lumps and even complain they are too loud while the CC crowd and Indy purist would be pleased in going with the traditional Indy tubo sound. There is zero reason not to go with turbos except that the Dallaras have that huge airbox.

As for the chassis the Dallaras are already past their expiration date. Somebody has to buy something whether it is CC teams buying Dallaras or IRL teams buying Panozes or TG buying whatever for both. Might as well buy the newer, better chassis and put off the expense of developing a new chassis until it is better known how this whole merger thing is going to work out.
You don't need the turbo motor's HP potential on s***** little ovals or crap street tracks. No need to abandon Formula Boat Anchor. The handful of morons in the stands don't care, all they want to see is "Indy Cars and close racin' ".

[cameraman]

I'm not watching Dallaras race, I have far better things to do with my weekends than watching that garbage.:shakehead

[Sean Malone]

I'm not watching Dallaras race, I have far better things to do with my weekends than watching that garbage.:shakehead

:thumbup:

[Methanolandbrats]

I'm not watching Dallaras race, I have far better things to do with my weekends than watching that garbage.:shakehead
But then ya miss these guys http://www.abcmedianet.com/showcontent/sports/commentators/i/goodyear.jpg http://www.cliftonpark.org/articles/community/Jack%20Arute.jpg

[cameraman]

But then ya miss these guys http://www.abcmedianet.com/showcontent/sports/commentators/i/goodyear.jpg http://www.cliftonpark.org/articles/community/Jack%20Arute.jpg

Okay, I'll bite who are they?

I'm not joking - I haven't a clue who they are.

[Andrew Longman]

You don't need the turbo motor's HP potential on s***** little ovals or crap street tracks. No need to abandon Formula Boat Anchor. The handful of morons in the stands don't care, all they want to see is "Indy Cars and close racin' ".

But you put that HP in a chassis that doesn't produce downforce equivilant to the state of Rhode Island and a few informed fans might join those morons in the stands. But who would want that?

[chop456]

Okay, I'll bite who are they?

I'm not joking - I haven't a clue who they are.

Left - Jerry Mathers.

Right - Bob Shultzman, low rent Jack Nicholson impersonator.

[RichK]

I'm glad it's happening, and hopefully a couple years from now there will be good cars and a good combination of big ovals, short ovals, road courses and street courses.

Do any of those complaining here really think that the teams & drivers want 10 cookie-cutter NASCAR tracks in the schedule? The IRL did the same thing Champcar did - they tried a strategy that didn't work and nobody cared about. With the IRL it was running on NASCAR ovals and getting in on the season ticket scam. With Champcar it was crappy street courses that nobody cared about.

The market will dictate the tracks now. I'll buy anyone here beer at the track if these tracks don't come back eventually: Cleveland, Toronto, Long Beach, Australia, Mexico City.

[mueber]

You don't like most of the drivers either?

Nice troll.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Hey, if there is anyone who knows anything about self-absorbed and over-privileged, its Easy. :laugh:

[Boatdesigner]

Silly me, I'd like to see FTG invite the CC teams to Homestead with their DP01's to see how they compare. Maybe if they ran them together they could see just how far apart they are and then make an informed decision as to which chassis is the future. Maybe no one has to buy or learn a new car, just a little re-tuning. At that point, maybe the car decision would be made by the market as the teams replace chassis's destroyed by the oval walls.

It also would be much cheaper if the DP01 was named the future car now and the teams could gradually switch to them over time, say by 2011 or 2012. Everyone would know where they are and be able to budget for the long term. They also wouldn't have to spend the money to once again design another new car, that may look a lot like a DP01 in the end.

This, of course, all comes down to FTG having brains, and we already know that the Wizard wasn't giving out brains on the day FTG was born.:shakehead

[rabbit]

CART died several years ago. Champ Car was, let's face facts, a poor substitute. I'm long past the mourning stage. Hopefully this is the first step in getting things back on the right track. I'm hoping so.

I'll watch and hope that it's miraculously a good product. But I still reserve the right to hate it and stop watching all together.

Bottom line, I'm glad the split is over.

[Insomniac]

ESPN says there is an agreement:

Officials from the Indy Racing League and Champ Car World Series struck a preliminary agreement Tuesday to fold elements of the Champ Car World Series into the IRL IndyCar Series.

An official announcement is expected Thursday. SPEEDtv.com first reported the agreement Tuesday afternoon.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=1&id=3253353

[Sean Malone]

So what "elements" will be folded? Long Beach of course and a few teams.

I seriously doubt Tony will allow his PR team to promote this as a 'merger' and we all know Champ Car doesn't have a PR team, unless you count ,,,,.

[Sean Malone]

ESPN says there is an agreement:

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=1&id=3253353

Wait a sec, I thought Pauly Poledance said it's all just a packalies! Guess they smarted up and 'forgot' to tell him.

See,,,,someones email campaigns DO help!!!

[Spicoli]

Random stuff I've heard today:

Higdon is playing Bagdad Bob @ CCWS, yet more and more people are loading up and heading out.

PKV was told "again" that they are headed to the IRL today. Announcement Wed or Th.

Walker is gone. Decided Friday.

Forsythe guys were told to stop working on their DP01s today. Dallaras expected at any time.

Bachelart is coming over too.

Nothing on Coyne, Poledance or minardi.


My best guess at this moment is that all these teams are striking individual deals with Tony. For example - the deal Walker cuts isn;t necessarily the same deal PKV cuts, which is different from the Bachelart deal, etc etc. This actually makes sense b/c then the creditors force CCWS, LLC into BK, and its cheaper and less painful. IOW - the company just goes broke and ceases to exist, leaving everyone to fend for themselves. Why go thru BK, when there's nothing to protect or sell. No messy merger, b/c these birdbrains can't agree on anything, anytime, anywhere. Take Tony's deal or have fun doing nothing.

The losers, in the end, are the CCWS employees. Prolly zero severance, zero help transitioning to other jobs, etc.


Like somebody else said, out with a wimper. No respect for the old dog.:shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

I wonder if the IMS braintrust has scripted out the 08 Mindy 475.5 yet.............giving PT a makeup call would help smooth things over. :gomer:

[Fio1]

When Long Beach roll around, put on your favorite tape of your favorite CART race and forget about it. I'll be at Road Atlanta working anyways, so who cares. But, if I do feel the need for Champcars/ CART I'll put the Cleveland 1995 race on and have a few Coronas.

Cheers.

[Wheel-Nut]

http://www.speedcenter.com/gallery/gallery96/long_beach/start_shot.jpg

[Don Quixote]

1996 Long Beach Results :cry: :cry:

1 3 12 J. Vasser Honda/Reynard/Firestone 105 Active
2 6 49 P. Johnstone Honda/Reynard/Firestone 105 Active
3 6 2 A. Unser Jr. Mercedes/Penske/Goodyear 105 Active
4 4 3 P. Tracy Mercedes/Penske/Goodyear 105 Active
5 1 8 G. de Ferran Honda/Reynard/Goodyear 105 Active
6 13 32 A. Fernandez Honda/Lola/Firestone 105 Active
7 12 6 M. Andretti FordXD/Lola/Goodyear 104 Flagged
8 18 34 R. Moreno FordXB/Lola/Goodyear 104 Flagged
9 24 10 E. Lawson Mercedes/Lola/Goodyear 104 Flagged
10 22 44 R. Hearn FordXB/Reynard/Goodyear 103 Flagged
11 5 20 S. Pruett FordXD/Lola/Firestone 103 Flagged
12 12 28 B. Herta Ford-Cosworth/Reynard/Firestone 100 Flagged
13 7 5 R. Gordon FordXD/Reynard/Goodyear 98 Flagged
14 21 18 B. Rahal Mercedes/Reynard/Goodyear 98 Flagged
15 11 17 M. Gugelmin FordXB/Reynard/Goodyear 97 Flagged
16 16 1 R. Boesel FordXD/Reynard/Goodyear 90 Flagged
17 28 64 D. Vitolo FordXB/Reynard/Goodyear 87 Electrical
18 19 21 T. Fabi FordXB/Reynard/Firestone 86 Clutch
19 20 16 S. Johansson Mercedes/Reynard/Goodyear 50 Engine
20 14 9 E. Fittipaldi Mercedes/Penske/Goodyear 48 Contact
21 10 11 C. Fittipaldi FordXD/Lola/Goodyear 47 Contact
22 8 99 G. Moore FordXB/Reynard/Firestone 47 Contact
23 27 22 M. Jourdain Jr. FordXB/Lola/Firestone 46 Radiator
24 2 4 A. Zanardi Honda/Reynard/Firestone 39 Contact
25 26 36 J. Fangio II Toyota/Eagle/Goodyear 29 Oil Leak
26 23 25 J. Krosnoff Toyota/Reynard/Firestone 23 Engine
27 15 31 A. Ribeiro Honda/Lola/Firestone 4 Contact
28 25 19 H. Matsushita FordXB/Lola/Firestone 1 Electrical

[Paintergeek]

I rather lost interest a few years ago, honestly. The addition and excitement around the new panoz briefly sparked my interest again, But only ever so briefly. I no longer care what the series is, Because no matter what it 'is', its not (and will never be) what it 'was'. CART died long ago.

I have to bite my tongue here a bit in a public forum, But suffice it to say that even though the two will be better off as one, I...and most others...could probably care less. going from 20 fans on each side to 40 total solves very little. At this point, as has been for a few years now, My input on it is "keep the doors open and the checks good and I'm happy". It was getting harder and harder to come indoors during the summer to watch a race, now it will be nearly impossible. Id rather watch the F1X2 two seaters :)

Such an odd day of mixed emotions from anger, to no giving a ****, to excitement, to gross sadness. But most of all, a sense of nostalgia.....seeing something come to an end. Like watching an old ballpark be imploded.

im not looking forward to the grater.

[OW]

first things first....
don't worry CC technology will be re-introduced (IMHO)

it will take time..... be patient

The only thing coming to an end is the argument

I new dawn for AOWR

[cameraman]

The only thing coming to an end is the argument

Ahhh no, I would have to say that my interest has also come to an end.

[OW]

Ahhh no, I would have to say that my interest has also come to an end.

I hope that is not true.....

[nrc]

I'm really not sure why some people seem to think that with Champ car going away Tony George will suddenly decide that his cars, his engines, and his schedule are all crap.

[stroker]

I'm really not sure why some people seem to think that with Champ car going away Tony George will suddenly decide that his cars, his engines, and his schedule are all crap.

The only reason the formula will change is if somebody else writes the check. I don't see any manufacturer's stepping up to the plate based on the 500 being "unified" again. The ratings will go up this year with some minor increased interest. Then they'll fall again. I doubt anyone will be spending 50 mil for new engines based on 500 ratings <5.0 in the long term.

[Gnam]

yes. When Champ Car left Laguna Seca, FTG did not rush in to take their place. He kept twirling at Sonoma. :tony:

[oddlycalm]

I'm really not sure why some people seem to think that with Champ car going away Tony George will suddenly decide that his cars, his engines, and his schedule are all crap. Absolutely, he's going to keep on doing just what he's been doing. It's all going to be about Indy and IMS with the rest of the venues treated like a redheaded step child. Look for events to be added and dropped so that none grow strong enough to rival his.

Even fans of the Indy persuasion can't be excited to have some of their favorite dribers gone. It's not like the EaRL has been a shining beacon of light. Having a few more teams and the prospect of (at least) one more street race can't be making them very happy.

oc

[Methanolandbrats]

Absolutely, he's going to keep on doing just what he's been doing. It's all going to be about Indy and IMS with the rest of the venues treated like a redheaded step child. Look for events to be added and dropped so that none grow strong enough to rival his.

Even fans of the Indy persuasion can't be excited to have some of their favorite dribers gone. It's not like the EaRL has been a shining beacon of light. Having a few more teams and the prospect of (at least) one more street race can't be making them very happy.

oc More seats available for Brazilian Dirt Trackers.:thumbup:

[RichK]

I'm really not sure why some people seem to think that with Champ car going away Tony George will suddenly decide that his cars, his engines, and his schedule are all crap.

I guess we'll see. Manufacturer interest will be the telling factor. They'll dictate where they want to race, and how high the rev limits go, etc. after they gain political power once again.

[Shadow]

AR1 rumor items not long ago.


Champ Car /IRL merger - on or off? UPDATE #14 Another related article - Sports Illustrated.com - Hearing the merger announcement may come Thursday. However, other AutoRacing1.com sources told us a few minutes ago that Forsythe just pulled the plug on the merger. This has not been confirmed yet, so do not take it as gospel.

So, will it be on - or off? If rumor is true, will KK be onside with GF? It already appears that PG isn't going to the IRL.

IF deal is done here is an AR1 rumor re Atlantics.


ALMS to buy Atlantic Series? Rumor has it that if the merger between Champ Car and the IRL goes through as expected, the Champ Car Atlantic Series could be purchased by the ALMS. In a merger the Indy pro Series and the Atlantic series would be redundant so it makes sense that the Atlantic Series could be sold.

[nrc]

This has not been confirmed yet, so do not take it as gospel.

Gee, it's a good thing he said that 'cos otherwise I was gonna go buy my Cleveland tickets. :rolleyes:

[EVL29]

http://www.abcmedianet.com/showcontent/sports/commentators/i/goodyear.jpg


Billy Tipton?

:yuck:

[EVL29]

1996 Long Beach Results :cry: :cry:

1 3 12 J. Vasser Honda/Reynard/Firestone 105 Active
2 6 49 P. Johnstone Honda/Reynard/Firestone 105 Active
3 6 2 A. Unser Jr. Mercedes/Penske/Goodyear 105 Active
4 4 3 P. Tracy Mercedes/Penske/Goodyear 105 Active
5 1 8 G. de Ferran Honda/Reynard/Goodyear 105 Active
6 13 32 A. Fernandez Honda/Lola/Firestone 105 Active
7 12 6 M. Andretti FordXD/Lola/Goodyear 104 Flagged
8 18 34 R. Moreno FordXB/Lola/Goodyear 104 Flagged
9 24 10 E. Lawson Mercedes/Lola/Goodyear 104 Flagged
10 22 44 R. Hearn FordXB/Reynard/Goodyear 103 Flagged
11 5 20 S. Pruett FordXD/Lola/Firestone 103 Flagged
12 12 28 B. Herta Ford-Cosworth/Reynard/Firestone 100 Flagged
13 7 5 R. Gordon FordXD/Reynard/Goodyear 98 Flagged
14 21 18 B. Rahal Mercedes/Reynard/Goodyear 98 Flagged
15 11 17 M. Gugelmin FordXB/Reynard/Goodyear 97 Flagged
16 16 1 R. Boesel FordXD/Reynard/Goodyear 90 Flagged
17 28 64 D. Vitolo FordXB/Reynard/Goodyear 87 Electrical
18 19 21 T. Fabi FordXB/Reynard/Firestone 86 Clutch
19 20 16 S. Johansson Mercedes/Reynard/Goodyear 50 Engine
20 14 9 E. Fittipaldi Mercedes/Penske/Goodyear 48 Contact
21 10 11 C. Fittipaldi FordXD/Lola/Goodyear 47 Contact
22 8 99 G. Moore FordXB/Reynard/Firestone 47 Contact
23 27 22 M. Jourdain Jr. FordXB/Lola/Firestone 46 Radiator
24 2 4 A. Zanardi Honda/Reynard/Firestone 39 Contact
25 26 36 J. Fangio II Toyota/Eagle/Goodyear 29 Oil Leak
26 23 25 J. Krosnoff Toyota/Reynard/Firestone 23 Engine
27 15 31 A. Ribeiro Honda/Lola/Firestone 4 Contact
28 25 19 H. Matsushita FordXB/Lola/Firestone 1 Electrical

wherearetheamericansidontlikeforeignershavenooneto cheerforthatsucks

:gomer:

[RTKar]

Has anything really been resolved? TV ratings have been abysmal, solid sponsorship is lacking, drivers are heading to nascar and mfg involvement is poor. tg's leadership will not put open wheel back on the map. His arrogance will continue to cost this sport dearly. Not to say that CC's leadership knew what they were doing nor that the quality of racing the last several years approached anything like what CART had in it's hey day, the near future looks clouded at best. Until tg begins to listen to reason North American OW racing will continue to have a bumpy ride one series or two.

[Spicoli]

PT to NHL, GF closes shop.

[stroker]

PT to NHL, GF closes shop.

!!!!!!!!!!!!

[miatanut]

Absolutely, he's going to keep on doing just what he's been doing. It's all going to be about Indy and IMS with the rest of the venues treated like a redheaded step child. Look for events to be added and dropped so that none grow strong enough to rival his.
oc

Exactly!

[dando]

More confirmation:

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=1&id=3253353


An official announcement is unlikely to take place before Thursday when Champ Car co-principal Kevin Kalkhoven is scheduled to return from a family function in London.

More evidence that open-wheel unification is finally at hand after the deeply damaging 12-year split between the IRL and Champ Car came in the form of a press release from Andretti Green Racing. The three-time IndyCar Series champion team announced Tuesday that they have hired Paul 'Ziggy' Harcus, who has served as Champ Car's director of racing operations for the last three years, as team manager.

-Kevin

[FTG]

PT to NHL, GF closes shop.

Good for GF, if true. would explain why GF stopping caring about the pay cut.

[Methanolandbrats]

Good for GF, if true.:thumbup: :thumbup:

[Insomniac]

I'm really not sure why some people seem to think that with Champ car going away Tony George will suddenly decide that his cars, his engines, and his schedule are all crap.

What has TG done besides copy CART/CC? He already has changed the schedule from all ovals to include road courses and will pick up more. Does that mean eventually the cars won't sound and look like crap, who knows? I'd say there's nothing that would stop him from changing. He's finally getting what he wanted 12 years later.

[robot9000]

PT to NHL, GF closes shop.


Ah, the sign of a true leader. When the going gets tough, take your ball and go home. Guess he can't bully or buy his way out of this mess.

FGF. He has been a wack job from day one. If he and KK paid 1/29th the attention to Champcar that they did to some of their other 'toys' they/we wouldn't be in this mess. How many days has he spent at CC HQ? I was told the total = Zero!

They only had to beat FTG. :shakehead

No Sympathy. :flame:

[Andrew Longman]

More: http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/sports/story.html?id=aaea83f5-0b89-4230-ae33-46a149a4b42a&k=67913

2009?

[Sean Malone]

More: http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/sports/story.html?id=aaea83f5-0b89-4230-ae33-46a149a4b42a&k=67913

2009?

"But IRL owner Tony George's inability to convince owners of the Motegi event in Japan to move its date to avoid conflict with Champ Car's season opener at Long Beach April 18-20 foiled attempts to get the two open-wheel racing series together for this year."

and yet multiple sources say Honda agreed to move the date. :confused:

[Wheel-Nut]

I'm really not sure why some people seem to think that with Champ car going away Tony George will suddenly decide that his cars, his engines, and his schedule are all crap.

Depends on how far Roger Penske can shove his hand up Tony's rearend. :rofl:

[DagoFast]

Depends on how far Roger Penske can shove his hand up Tony's rearend. :rofl:

Why would Roger work to improve the leeg? It isn't his.

He'll just sell Tony as many crappy Ilmors as he can.

[dando]

More: http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/sports/story.html?id=aaea83f5-0b89-4230-ae33-46a149a4b42a&k=67913

2009?

What a ****ing mess! :shakehead :saywhat: :irked:


-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

From the ESPN article

>>"There is no agreement in place at this time, though I expect we'll be able to announce a resolution to our discussions with the IRL one way or the other very soon," said David Higdon, Champ Car executive vice president of strategic development and communications. "In the meantime, we're continuing our work as Champ Car." >>>>

What a great job title this guy had. Since there was no strategic development and no communications, he must have showed up in the morning, stuck his right thumb up his ass and drooled in a cup until it was time to go home.

[Wheel-Nut]

Why would Roger work to improve the leeg? It isn't his.

He'll just sell Tony as many crappy Ilmors as he can.

You've been around racing for a while right? Not only is Penske an engine guy but he also has some experience in chassis design.

Now, have you known Penske to do anything that doesn't benefit Penske?

and do you think TG is smart enough to pull this "merger" together all by himself?