Won't Watch? I Don't Believe You.

[shomann]

Yes we all hate TG, Crapwagons, etc... We it's done. What can we do?

To all these people who say they won't watch the new series, I don't believe you. How can you not watch and support our Champ Car teams. We've got something to really root for, good against evil.

Anyone that says they won't be watching isn't a true fan of open wheel in my opinion. What's done is done. Time to move forward.

[G.]

Oh dear lord.

This isn't going to be pretty.

:eek: :shakehead

[Sean Malone]

I'll watch if paper goes first and tells me it's the 'right thing to do'.

[devilmaster]

and the fun begins....

a weekend of forum watching for missy and rich. :shakehead

[RusH]

and the fun begins....

a weekend of forum watching for missy and rich. :shakehead


LOL

[ferrarigod]

i will watch, for the first time. over 12/13 years i have barely watch more than 10 laps of the Indy 500 and maybe 10 laps of all other races combined.

But I will watch, and I may go to testing. I will attend Indy, I want to be there for this.

sebring first though.:thumbup:

[ferrarigod]

I'll watch if paper goes first and tells me it's the 'right thing to do'.

he has to get an email from PG expressing how it is done first so he can relay it to us normal, everyday fans who have yet to transcend into the upper echelon of fanaticism.

[shomann]

I don't believe for a minute that anyone here or over at CCF will not watch the first race, or continue to watch.

Yes, the IRL cars look and sound like crap - but hopefully the Champ Car teams will assist steering them in the right direction for development of the new car.

How can you follow CART, then Champ Car for years and then give up on open wheel and your favorite drivers? I look forward to seeing PT give Danica the chrome horn.

[Sean Malone]

I don't believe for a minute that anyone here or over at CCF will not watch the first race, or continue to watch.

Yes, the IRL cars look and sound like crap - but hopefully the Champ Car teams will assist steering them in the right direction for development of the new car.

How can you follow CART, then Champ Car for years and then give up on open wheel and your favorite drivers? I look forward to seeing PT give Danica the chrome horn.

The lockout in 96. 13 years of split. Tony George etc. It's easy.

[Andrew Longman]

I don't believe you

Feel free.

But I won't be driving from NJ to RA, Cleveland, TO, MO or Mt Tremblanc as I have done. I won't try to contrive business trips to LA and Portland around race dates.

I will if the formula changes to something closer to the traditional CC formula and away from the crap the the IRL presents.

As far as watching, I might have a race on while I vacuum or put off vacuuming, but it is as likely to be swamp buggies as it is the IRL. I don't dislike either but there is a great distance between passion and housework background

[Ruben Barrios]

True fans will watch... hate mongers will find something new to hate... What a sad life it must be... waking every morning to spew hate... :rolleyes:

[Sean Malone]

True fans will watch... hate mongers will find something new to hate... What a sad life it must be... waking every morning to spew hate... :rolleyes:

True fans? I take offense to that.

[Ruben Barrios]

True fans? I take offense to that.

hate runs thick in this one... ;)

[Boatdesigner]

I am so sorry if the IRL holds no interest to me. No I won't be watching as long as it is just another IRL race. They have had over a decade to get me interested and failed. Why should I start now?:shakehead

[ferrarigod]

True fans will watch... hate mongers will find something new to hate... What a sad life it must be... waking every morning to spew hate... :rolleyes:

i am a hate monger and a true fan. i'll watch, but i'll never forget or forgive.

[Ruben Barrios]

^^^:thumbup:

[momotan]

I will gladly watch. I am sure there is more to this deal then what we will be presented in a press conference. We will get the full picture in a couple years. Paper Pat can go talk to his buddy PG and suck on his pole for all I care. He represents the extremist big mouth who talks a big game, but when race day comes around, he will be the first glued to the TV.

[Sean Malone]

hate runs thick in this one... ;)

Let's see which direction the one series goes under The Sagamore of Wabash's visionary leadership.

So after 13 years of me hating TG, I'm supposed get down on one knee and pledge my allegiance because he's the grand pooba? F that.

[Accipiter]

I'll watch when the rolling coffins are finally thrown in the garbage.

[ferrarigod]

Let's see which direction the one series goes under The Sagamore of Wabash's visionary leadership.

So after 13 years of me hating TG, I'm supposed get down on one knee and pledge my allegiance because he's the grand pooba? F that.

off camberians don't pledge to a leader on 1 knee. cccf'ers do that. why last year KK was a saint, and GF was the devil and PG was just the best! now KK is the devil, during the whole PT/Unka fiasco GF was the Devil and PG was the saint. PG was and will always be the man who ALMOST saved Champ Car.

Here's something to do, continue to hate TG. I will. But then again I also didn't make KK or GF my blood brother. PG i just used for lapdances and nelsonmania.

[Ruben Barrios]

^^^ ferrarigod has got the right measure Sean... don't hate, but never forget... You can watch the series and still not care for the owner... Heck I am using windows and I on't care for Bill gates that much...

Hey "our" drivers have been feeding TG's pocket at GranAm anyway... And most fans follow them...

Oh and by the way the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference... Hate is actually very close to love... when you hate someone, they are still living with you on a day to day basis...

[cameraman]

Tony george doesn't own Grand Am

[RusH]

I'll watch when the rolling coffins are finally thrown in the garbage.

^^^^^^

:thumbup:

I`ll wait for the details, 2008 looks like bull ****.

Once the novelty and nostalgia of PT punting an Andretti into a wall is over, the remote will be put to good use.

[cameraman]

I like Oriol Servia.

If he gets an ALMS ride, I'll watch every race.
If he gets an LMS ride, I'll watch every torrent I can find:rolleyes:
If he gets a Grand Am ride, I'll watch some of the time.
If he gets a DTM ride, I'll make an effort to find a torrent.
If he gets an IRL, ARCA or NASCAR ride, well not so much.

[Don Quixote]

I love it when my fandom is measured by others. Thank you very much. :gomer: :tony: :shakehead

[dando]

I think I'd rather watch gay pr0n than formula crapwagon. :tony:

-Kevin

[TravelGal]

Oh and by the way the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference... Hate is actually very close to love... when you hate someone, they are still living with you on a day to day basis...

Oh by the way, that's why we won't be watching, except as noted below because I like Servia also.


I like Oriol Servia.

If he gets an ALMS ride, I'll watch every race.
If he gets an LMS ride, I'll watch every torrent I can find:rolleyes:
If he gets a Grand Am ride, I'll watch some of the time.
If he gets a DTM ride, I'll make an effort to find a torrent.
If he gets an IRL, ARCA or NASCAR ride, well not so much.

[cameraman]

None of the ccws teams have any sponsors/money.
They will have a bunch of worn down used sleds.
They have no chance to test.
They aren't allowed to develop.
They have no/negligible experience with the current Dallaras.
They will make up half the field.
2008 is going to suck by even the IRL's lame standards.

I haven't watched the IRL in 12 years I'll be damned if I am going to start now.
I'd much rather go outside and play with my kid.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I'll go to Mid-Ohio because its good face time for my career, but other wise I'm just a casual observer right now.

[ferrarigod]

I'll go to Mid-Ohio because its good face time for my career, but other wise I'm just a casual observer right now.

Just because Champ Car is gone doesn't mean you have a good face.

[TKGAngel]

I'll probably watch. Does it mean that I'll be paying full rapt attention? No. The race will make a great background for reading or knitting.


Once the novelty and nostalgia of PT punting an Andretti into a wall is over, the remote will be put to good use.

When that happens, do you think Mikey will go over to PT and defend his son's honor, or will he let Marco fight his own battle?

I'm just waiting for the inevitable PT / Danica dust-up.

[RusH]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=83819 9

2008 Grand Prix of Cleveland race canceled

Updated:2/22/2008 6:27:35 PM


CLEVELAND -- The event, which was to have taken place from June 20-22, 2008, has been canceled because of the merger of two formerly competing racing teams.
The merger of the Indy Racing League (IRL) and the Champ Car World Series resulted in conflicting dates for races, including the Grand Prix of Cleveland.

The new unified racing circuit has chosen to keep its race in Iowa that weekend and cancel Cleveland. That breaks a 26 year continuous run for the Cleveland race, which became known as the "Roar on the Shore."

Champ Car owner Michael T. Lanigan said today, "Due to the complicated and last-minute nature of this merger, the Cleveland date could (not) be accommodated for 2008."

When the Grand Prix and the City of Cleveland signed a 5-year contract in November, 2007, Mayor Frank Jackson said the race had a $30 million yearly economic impact on the city.

Attendance in 2007 grew more than 31% to 151,000 fans according to promoters. Cleveland City Council President Martin Sweeney called the race one of Cleveland's "unique assets."

Lanigan did say that plans are underway to keep Cleveland on the racing circuit in 2009.

"We are excited about the prospect of bringing this new series to Cleveland in 2009 and we are already in discussions about that possibility," Lanigan said in a prepared statement.



That`s why I say 2008 is ****.

Time to take a year off myself.

[nrc]

To all these people who say they won't watch the new series, I don't believe you. How can you not watch and support our Champ Car teams. We've got something to really root for, good against evil.
I'll watch Long Beach if they're running the DP01's for the last time.

Beyond that I will not be watching crapwagons in a series run by the congenital idiot who destroyed my sport. Period.

Saying that you don't believe me means that either you're doubting the strength of my conviction or you're calling me a liar. Either of those things is more than a little rude for a newcomer.

[nissan gtp]

I'll watch. Hope "our guys" get up to speed fast and start winning. PT winning the Indycar championship would be the ultimate. :laugh:

[Racing Truth]

I don't doubt OR begrudge the sincerity of those who say "eff it all." Many have been fans for decades and they know what they want. Will everyone who now says "Never" permanently stop watching? My hunch is a certain percentage will wander back, but many won't

In the end, I've always been something of a fencesitter, though never liking TG. By and large, if it has 4 wheels (even 2) and is reasonably quick, I usually watch. I won't stop... yet.

Ultimately, its just sport. I just got some sad news that puts it in perspective. The daughter of one of my nurses committed suicide. Makes all this look silly.:(

[nrc]

Ultimately, its just sport. I just got some sad news that puts it in perspective. The daughter of one of my nurses committed suicide. Makes all this look silly.:(

Very true. But I can't even look at it as a sport anymore. The business has swallowed the sport and all we're left with is crap.

No, in the big scheme of things "sport" doesn't matter. It's just entertainment. But it used to seem like it meant something. And now it doesn't seem that way at all.

[doppelganger]

I'll watch Long Beach if they're running the DP01's for the last time.

Beyond that I will not be watching crapwagons in a series run by the congenital idiot who destroyed my sport. Period.

Saying that you don't believe me means that either you're doubting the strength of my conviction or you're calling me a liar. Either of those things is more than a little rude for a newcomer.

Thanks nrc. You've summed up my feelings and no doubt others with this post. I'm already planning Sunday afternoons in the backyard with a good book and a strong drink. If I didn't follow the IRL in the past, why start now.

[pchall]

What's with all the kiss, make up, and forget newbies around here? Some sort of gomer insurgency trying to make us like this crap sandwich?

[Accipiter]

I'll watch. Hope "our guys" get up to speed fast and start winning. PT winning the Indycar championship would be the ultimate. :laugh:

Hey, now that they're mergified, maybe they will give him his Indy 500 win back.

:laugh:

[Gnam]

What's with all the kiss, make up, and forget newbies around here? Some sort of gomer insurgency trying to make us like this crap sandwich?
Welcome to the Indy Car re-education experience. Everything you know about AOW is wrong. Tony George is your friend. His racing is the best on the planet. You will enjoy it. Isn't it great to be an Indy Car fan? Yes, yes it is.

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5859/commieirl300di5.jpg
courtesy TarD @ smackforum


NFW. :thumdown:

[RusH]

Welcome to the Indy Car re-education experience. Everything you know about AOW is wrong. Tony George is your friend. His racing is the best on the planet. You will enjoy it. Isn't it great to be an Indy Car fan? Yes, yes it is.

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5859/commieirl300di5.jpg
courtesy TarD @ smackforum


NFW. :thumdown:

That TarD is a morAn ;)

[Dirk Diggler]

How can you not watch and support our Champ Car teams.

My favorite teams and drivers have been over there for years. I haven't watched them turn a lap since they left. Why should I start now?

Piss off, douchebag. I'm not in the mood.

[miatanut]

I'll watch Long Beach if they're running the DP01's for the last time.

Beyond that I will not be watching crapwagons in a series run by the congenital idiot who destroyed my sport. Period.

Saying that you don't believe me means that either you're doubting the strength of my conviction or you're calling me a liar. Either of those things is more than a little rude for a newcomer.

Exactly! :thumbup:

[JLMannin]

My favorite teams and drivers have been over there for years. I haven't watched them turn a lap since they left. Why should I start now?

Piss off, douchebag. I'm not in the mood.

^^^^^^
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

My thoughts exactly.

All of you "more racing is more better" fence sitters just don't get it. I don't watch the IRL because the racing sucks. It sucked in 1996, it sucked last year, and it will suck in 2008. After 14 years od suckage, why would it suddenly improve????

I didn't drink New Coke because is sucked. It never crossed my mind to drink that swill "to show support for the Coke I loved".

Get it?

[Methanolandbrats]

Hay all you trolling newbie aholes, no I won't be watching, did'nt watch before, won't watch now because the cars are crap, the oval races are foot to the floor garbage and the road races make NASCAR roadies look quick. Got it morons. You enjoy the eight more cars full of dirt trackn' Brazilians. Dip *****.

[TU Homer]

I'm watching whatever race Paulie G is racin.

[G.]

^^^^^^


My thoughts exactly.

All of you "more racing is more better" fence sitters just don't get it. I don't watch the IRL because the racing sucks. It sucked in 1996, it sucked last year, and it will suck in 2008. After 14 years od suckage, why would it suddenly improve????

I didn't drink New Coke because is sucked. It never crossed my mind to drink that swill "to show support for the Coke I loved".

Get it?:thumbup: :thumbup:

[oddlycalm]

Anyone that says they won't be watching isn't a true fan of open wheel in my opinion. That's right Barney, I'm not a true open wheel fan. I've sure enjoyed professional formula car racing though ever since I watched Jim Clark in his little Lotus formula car kick the asses of the good ol' boys in their open wheelers in 1965. Enjoy the suckage and barking idiots...:tony:

oc

[opinionated ow]

i don't quite know what I am going to do. There won't be any tv coverage here, little if any media. I will watch if i can iowa, milwaukee, richmond. i will watch edmonton, mid ohio. i will not watch st snoozersberg (is that track in russia?). i don't like the 1.5mile ovals with the exception of kansas. i might watch indiancrapolis.....

crapwagons, farting bees, floor mashers, foyt, ****ing tony george. they might just be enough to put me off permanently.

[Elmo T]

I'll go to Mid-Ohio...

We will be headed to M-O again. The kids love to see racing, and I think M-O is very family friendly. We also did Cleveland last year, but the kids don't do well in the stands.

We put aside the racing politics in favor of quality family time.

[Napoleon]

I don't believe for a minute that anyone here or over at CCF will not watch the first race, or continue to watch.


Oh really? Your welcome to come over my house and watch me not watch. I simply will have nothing to do with the IRL.

Kind of interesting that you just joined this forum and come in with a post like this. You must be a real long term Champcar fan right?

[Cam]

Kind of interesting that you just joined this forum and come in with a post like this. You must be a real long term Champcar troll right?

Fixxered it for you nappy. :)

[Napoleon]

I will gladly watch. I am sure there is more to this deal then what we will be presented in a press conference. We will get the full picture in a couple years. Paper Pat can go talk to his buddy PG and suck on his pole for all I care. He represents the extremist big mouth who talks a big game, but when race day comes around, he will be the first glued to the TV.


And another newly registered "fan" tells us how good its all going to be. I wonder if TG sent his PR flacks in here to sell us his bowl of steaming BS.

[KLang]

Just some folks from gomerville celebrating their 'victory'.

Hollow victory to be sure. It is too late. Nobody cares anymore but a few hundred fanatics posting on message boards. :shakehead

FTG! :tony:

[Methanolandbrats]

Just some folks from gomerville celebrating their 'victory'.

Hollow victory to be sure. It is too late. Nobody cares anymore but a few hundred fanatics posting on message boards. :shakehead

FTG! :tony: That's the hilarious aspect of this. The :gomer: s think this means Indy is back and :gomer: Jr. the modified driver has a shot at the milk. Utter ********, the crowds are gone forever, mechanical innovation is dead, the legacy is ruined and all it does is open up a few more seats for foreign road racers.

[EDwardo]

...
To all these people who say they won't watch the new series, I don't believe you. Anyone that says they won't be watching isn't a true fan of open wheel in my opinion....

Written as if you actually believe anyone cares what you believe.

And this open wheel fan of 40 years is of the opinion that anyone willing to embrace a fraudulent and vapid open wheel series simply because it is open wheel is a pathetic drone.

I like steak. But I won't eat a worm infested, rotten lump of gristle just because someone says it is a steak.

[Insomniac]

Yes we all hate TG, Crapwagons, etc... We it's done. What can we do?

To all these people who say they won't watch the new series, I don't believe you. How can you not watch and support our Champ Car teams. We've got something to really root for, good against evil.

Anyone that says they won't be watching isn't a true fan of open wheel in my opinion. What's done is done. Time to move forward.

Talk about what you will do, not others. I respect every person who stands by what they believe. Often, it isn't easy to do.

I've only watched 3 IRL races beginning to end. The Indy 500 in 2000, 2001 and 2002. I've seen bits and pieces every now and then, but never recorded a race as easy as it is to do with a DVR. I'm not sure if I'll watch or not. I don't like the cars, and I'm not really interested in seeing the CC guys drive around as backmarkers. I, like some, are hopeful that someday, it will resemble CART in the future. I said many time I learned about the split well after it happened. It was a TV sport for me. My hate for TG does not run as deep, which probably makes it easier for me to maybe tune in. I just don't know yet.

[JLMannin]

To all the newly registered trolls predicting a rebuilding of open wheel racing in America:

It already happenned. The rebuilding and return to prestige took place over the time span of roughly 1979 until 2000 or so. Your hero boy in Marion County Indiana skunked up the whole works

I have been a real fan, I am currently a real fan, and I will always be a real fan. Currently, I have no series to watch, but rest assured, I am still a true fan of premeir, formula car racing based in North America.

[RTKar]

I suppose it's how you watch, as a fan, a potential fan or an observer of motorsports wondering what the future may bring to OW racing in North America. There'll certainly be a curiosity factor for most of us but whether there's any staying power for any audience increase is the question that should be asked.

[Dirk Diggler]

We will be headed to M-O again. The kids love to see racing, and I think M-O is very family friendly. We also did Cleveland last year, but the kids don't do well in the stands.

We put aside the racing politics in favor of quality family time.

Screw that. I'll take the kids to Disneyland.

[mueber]

I've never had any respect for Tony George, and I don't have any respect for those who do business with him. Although I might change my mind if I hear that he IS the answer to all of AOWR's problems after all, my intention is to transfer my domestic motor racing affection to ALMS.

[Napoleon]

my intention is to transfer my domestic motor racing affection to ALMS.

That is how I feel exactly.

[Don Quixote]

That is how I feel exactly.

Me three.

[Duroc]

1. Unify Open Wheel
2. ???
3. Profit

Combining two **** products = bigger pile of ****

[Jag_Warrior]

I don't believe for a minute that anyone here or over at CCF will not watch the first race, or continue to watch.

Yes, the IRL cars look and sound like crap - but hopefully the Champ Car teams will assist steering them in the right direction for development of the new car.

How can you follow CART, then Champ Car for years and then give up on open wheel and your favorite drivers? I look forward to seeing PT give Danica the chrome horn.

My problem is, it's taken effort to watch CCWS these past couple of seaons. The IRL has never interested me, so it took no effort to not watch. I've never seen an episode of The OC, American Idol, Survivor or that hospital show with Dr. McDreamy, or whatever he's called either. Things that don't interest me, I don't watch. And increasingly, neither series has had enough of what drew me in 35+ years ago, to keep my attention.

It's not out of hate for Tony George, Kalkhoven or the IRL Dallara darts that I won't watch. But I haven't had a driver to cheer for since Montoya left. The cars don't interest me. The current driver lineups don't interest me. The engine formula doesn't interest me. The only draw for me is some of the tracks: Road America (hopefully?), Mid-Ohio, Michigan (hopefully?), Long Beach, Laguna Seca (hopefully?), etc. But other series also run these tracks and they (now) offer more of what interests me: drivers, cars, engine formulas, drivers, etc. Maybe not the whole recipe, but at least bits & pieces.

As for being a (legitimate, card-carrying) open wheel fan, my fascination for Formula One only waned in the season that Senna lost his life. I like Star Mazda. It's like watching a swarm of angry little bees chasing down a bear who stole their honey. I loved watching them burp fire during downshifts at late afternoon races. I hope to see them at VIR this year. I hope that some way is found to protect the wonderful Atlantics series from all of this billionaire phallus size contest silliness. And I enjoyed the GP2 series, season before last, more than the CCWS season, after AJ left.

I don't have enough spare energy these days to devote to hating anyone, who hasn't personally wronged me. Tell ya what, for the 2010/2011 season, if the IRL manages to get Lewis Hamilton, a car that somewhat resembles a Lotus 78, a V6 turbo from Jaguar vs a boxer turbo 6 from Porsche, races that don't require me to get my passport stamped every other weekend... count me in, brothers & sisters!!! I have no more use for The Amigos (at this point) than I do for Tony George. Who owns the racket doesn't matter to me anymore. I don't care if the France family owns 50% of it and Bernie Ecclestone owns the other 50.

Once this form of racing has something to offer me, I may return as a fan of... whatever they choose to call it. But they don't owe me anything. And I don't owe them anything. I've called cabs and set suitcases on the sidewalk for entities that did a lot more for me than Champ Car ever did. But once the B.S. comes in a higher quantity than the enjoyment... you don't have to go home, but you will get the h#ll out of my house. And that's sort of where I am with the IRL vs. CCWS. To get back in, they'll have to show me that they deserve my attention and time.

F1, ALMS, Grand Am, NHRA, GP2, Star Mazda, even NASCAR Sprint Cup... all are doing a better job of giving me what I'm looking for than IRL/CCWS these days. If that makes me a bad open wheel fan... trust me, I've been called a lot worse than that.

[oddlycalm]

Once this form of racing has something to offer me, I may return as a fan of... whatever they choose to call it. Yep, the real question is what happens when the wheels inevitably fall off in a year or two. The EARL was circling the drain a half turn behind CCWS and as the man said, mating a dog with a dog isn't going to result in a pony.

Meanwhile there are going to be a lot of tracks and cities left without race dates.

oc

[Fio1]

I always liked everyone who said they won't watch the IRL, but then go and post about what Danica did or what a lame race it was. How did you know all that if you didn't watch? :p

You'll watch. You may not like it at first, but you'll watch. Now that everyone is together again, they'll be able to revolt against Tony G and take things over in a few years anyways. In 5 years, it will be like 1996 never happened....You'l see. :cool:

I just hope GF fields a car and wins Indy! Go Teo Fabi, sorry I meant go PT!

[Ankf00]

if the car counts become worth a damn and they have a formula that interests me, i may start watching again, but i rarely watch as it is so I don't see how the status quo is going to change a thing. there's a million other entertainment options on a summer weekend for me, and some rich guys tooling around in crapwagons hardly rates.


rubens barrios, you live in BROWNSVILLE ffs, there isn't **** all to do there other than watch bad tv, enjoy it. i couldn't care less.

[Ankf00]

The lockout in 96. 13 years of split. Tony George etc. It's easy.

[Ozarkian]

Yep, the real question is what happens when the wheels inevitably fall off in a year or two. The EARL was circling the drain a half turn behind CCWS and as the man said, mating a dog with a dog isn't going to result in a pony.

Meanwhile there are going to be a lot of tracks and cities left without race dates.

oc

Agreed. After yesterday, Tony George's list of options got a lot shorter, as did his list of bogeymen to take blame for the inevitable. That process may be fascinating to watch.

But not the "racing."

[nrc]

You'll watch. You may not like it at first, but you'll watch.
No, I won't.

[oddlycalm]

I always liked everyone who said they won't watch the IRL, but then go and post about what Danica did or what a lame race it was. How did you know all that if you didn't watch? :p

You'll watch. You may not like it at first, but you'll watch. Now that everyone is together again, they'll be able to revolt against Tony G and take things over in a few years anyways. In 5 years, it will be like 1996 never happened....You'l see. :cool: Time will tell. Some will watch but I'd bet most won't. As far as taking things over and returning to a pre-1996 level I'd give you real favorable odds against that happening. One word explains why; money. Few sponsors and Honda bankrolling that series doesn't bode well. The other issue is momentum of which there is none. In 1996 CART was coming off a decade and a half of strong growth with a strong series sponsor and major sponsors for all the teams. The highest paid driver was making around $5 million. Today the combined series is on life support and there is a whole generation of people who grew up without even knowing professional formula car racing existed.

I remember when races drew big crowds and golf tournaments drew a few thousand people. This years FBR in Scottsdale drew 538,000 people on a weekend Tiger wasn't playing. What's going to make people watch a combined series, the drivers? The crapwagons? The eggciting venues? Some folks may watch once or twice but when they see snorefests with a field filled with drivers they don't care about, who's going to keep watching?

oc

[Insomniac]

I think now would be a great time to have 1-hour highlight shows. :D

[KLang]

I watched part of the 500 that Montoya won. I've seen no other earl race and I'm not starting now or anytime in the future as long as FTG is running the show.

[RusH]

I couldn`t care less about the idiot grandson anymore. I just want to see a better schedule and formula.
Then I`ll follow the sport. Following means watching all the races and caring.
Last year did not follow CC under that definition ....because the PTB didn`t care either.

[Andrew Longman]

OC, good analysis as usual.

Over the 12 years there were a few distinct periods. In the late 90s, CART was still doing well because they (initially anyway) barely acknowledged the IRL and continued to produce a superior product. Sponsors may have been a little wary or put off by the split but the superior sponsor value was in CART.

Then I think a few things happened that proved fatal to CART. They didn't keep HP/speeds under control and put off for several years adopting a new spec. This pissed off the manufacturers, made them take away downforce on short ovals (which ruined the racing) and added the Handford at superspeedways (which ruined the racing). In the end they blinked and gave time to an equivilant engine that only told everyone they were confused and vulnerable.

Then they entered the period of teams, partners and sponsors trying to bet on the winning side. Most fans found something else to side with, turned off by it all.

In the last few years (CC era) it entered into a Cold War of sorts with both sides losing and looking for a way to make the status quo (stand alone) sustainable.

Now we are in a period not much different from when TG started the IRL; ground zero. A series no one asked for with a gorilla in the market. Only this time instead of CART, TG has NASCAR and the Daytona 500 to compete with.

And road racing fans now have ALMS instead of the ashes of CanAm, F5000, IMSA, etc.

If new venues are of the ilk of Iowa and 25K for a 1.5 hour event/weekend, they might as well race Silver Crowns for all the attention it will grab.

It's possible that TG can revive this thing, but it will need to start with remaking the I500 as the premier racing event on the planet. He needs to put up the prize money to attract not only NASCAR drivers, but teams. That's the minimum. Better yet attract top drivers from around the globe. If he needs to own every chassis/engine in the field so be it, but the winner must earn some ungodly sum. With the attention that creates, sponsor value shoots up.

That done, he needs to offer enough prize money for the entire year to make participation compelling. Winning the championship should pay as much as the 500. TEAM is at best about 50% of what it needs to be.

And he needs to make racing these cars decidedly as much UNLIKE driving a stock car as possible. Scary, wicked fast. Exotic. AMAZING performance. Diverse venues. Braking. Turning. It cannot be NASCAR without fenders. It must be a clear and compelling alternative. New spec is a must.

[G.]

That done, he needs to offer enough prize money for the entire year to make participation compelling. Winning the championship should pay as much as the 500. TEAM is at best about 50% of what it needs to be.
But that would take attention away from his precious race. NFW he would do that, since it makes too much sense. And it might work. Therefore, DOA.

[JT265]

I think I'd rather watch gay pr0n than formula crapwagon. :tony:

-Kevin

PM Spikkly. He can hook you up. :laugh: :eek: :laugh:

[stroker]

That done, he needs to offer enough prize money for the entire year to make participation compelling. Winning the championship should pay as much as the 500. TEAM is at best about 50% of what it needs to be.

And he needs to make racing these cars decidedly as much UNLIKE driving a stock car as possible. Scary, wicked fast. Exotic. AMAZING performance. Diverse venues. Braking. Turning. It cannot be NASCAR without fenders. It must be a clear and compelling alternative. New spec is a must.

In other words, the .1RL ain't got a chance in hell.

:laugh:

[Spicoli]

PM Spikkly. He can hook you up. :laugh: :eek: :laugh:


twenny dollah, make ya hollah.


:D

[Gary]

If I watch, if I rant on the forums, if I go to a race just to throw things at TG & KK, it will all be spun by Robin Miller into IRL buzz. I won't be a party to that.

If anyone hears of someone running a turbo DP01 somewhere, please give me a call.

[Ray Scar]

I will have no problem avoiding Lord Sagamore's league.

Open wheel racing on high speed ovals became obsolete the moment it was no longer possible to set a "nnnneeeewwwww ttrraaaack rreeccord".

If crashing is not an option, as in open wheel, the only reason left to race on high speed ovals is to amaze people with the speed. Witness what happens when a race goes green for long periods of time. The inevitable large gaps cause today's fan to yawn when there is no percieved risk.

Hobble the cars to eliminate the gaps and you invite contact. Works great for the rubbin' is racin' crowd but it a whole different deal when they have to scrape someone off the track .

Also today there are viable alternatives for the discerning race fan. That ALMS is a rising star is no surprise. It has most of the elements that made CART so popular. Without ovals to encumber it they can avoid comparisons to the NASCAR script and offer real relevance.

CART had road racing in it's blood and could have gradually weaned itself from the long ovals and kept it's identity. Tony's oval-centric crowd has no chance.

[emjaya]

Champ Car was broadcast at 2.00am on the Monday after the race, so wanting to watch made me put in a little effort. But it was worth it.

I don't know if it will be even on over here, so I don't know either way yet. :\



i don't quite know what I am going to do. There won't be any tv coverage here, little if any media. I will watch if i can iowa, milwaukee, richmond. i will watch edmonton, mid ohio. i will not watch st snoozersberg (is that track in russia?). i don't like the 1.5mile ovals with the exception of kansas. i might watch indiancrapolis.....

crapwagons, farting bees, floor mashers, foyt, ****ing tony george. they might just be enough to put me off permanently.

Ch Ten HD had Daytona 500 highlights on Sat, maybe we will get lucky...or unlucky as the case maybe. ;)

[OW]

True fans will watch... hate mongers will find something new to hate... What a sad life it must be... waking every morning to spew hate... :rolleyes:

well said

[Methanolandbrats]

True fans will watch... hate mongers will find something new to hate... What a sad life it must be... waking every morning to spew hate... :rolleyes:
Wrong. In my case I don't wake up "hating" anything. I'm not watching the "new" American Open Wheel because the formula and most of the tracks are crap. It may evolve into something worth following in a number of years, but I doubt it. I've lived through the rise and fall of CanAm, IMSA, NASCAR (yes it was worth following once) and CART, so I've seen this before. I am a "true" fan and I'm not watching "side by side" short oval garbage disguised as motorsports. Some people choose to watch anything with wheels on it, time will tell if there are enough of them. The decline in Indy attendance suggests there are not.

[shomann]

Talk about what you will do, not others. I respect every person who stands by what they believe. Often, it isn't easy to do.

I've only watched 3 IRL races beginning to end. The Indy 500 in 2000, 2001 and 2002. I've seen bits and pieces every now and then, but never recorded a race as easy as it is to do with a DVR. I'm not sure if I'll watch or not. I don't like the cars, and I'm not really interested in seeing the CC guys drive around as backmarkers. I, like some, are hopeful that someday, it will resemble CART in the future. I said many time I learned about the split well after it happened. It was a TV sport for me. My hate for TG does not run as deep, which probably makes it easier for me to maybe tune in. I just don't know yet.

My hate for TG runs deep also. I've never watched an IRL race! I didn't want anything to do with them. I've been a CART and Champ Car fan since day one. I've attended many Champ Car races at Road America and the Milwaukee Mile over the years.

It would be ideal if this "merger" was reversed, and IRL teams were coming to Champ Car running DP01's and the far superior Champ Car schedule. But, unfortunately that's not the case. The bottom line is Champ Car is dead. I will continue to support former Champ Car teams and their drivers, and look forward to their race wins in the merged series. My passion is open wheel and I can't get excited about ALMS or their drivers. I think a lot of open wheel fans feel the same way.

[OW]

Wrong. In my case I don't wake up "hating" anything. I'm not watching the "new" American Open Wheel because the formula and most of the tracks are crap. It may evolve into something worth following in a number of years, but I doubt it. I've lived through the rise and fall of CanAm, IMSA, NASCAR (yes it was worth following once) and CART, so I've seen this before. I am a "true" fan and I'm not watching "side by side" short oval garbage disguised as motorsports. Some people choose to watch anything with wheels on it, time will tell if there are enough of them. The decline in Indy attendance suggests there are not.

We'll let you know how it goes...

[Sean Malone]

We'll let you know how it goes...

I'm betting you and Barrios are post split 'fans'. You shouldn't be so presumptuous and not swallowing the Kool Aid doesn't mean you wake up every day hating the world.
:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead

[RusH]

Mash the gas racing and wings the size of an Airbus....things must change.

[Ruben Barrios]

I'm betting you and Barrios are post split 'fans'.
Check the dates again zippy!!

I am a seasoned fan who has a positive attitude in life (tends to happen when you've lost important things) and I choose to continue my love of motorsports rather that continue someone else's fight (some one who has long ago given up BTW)...

You may choose to continue holding a grudge forever... good for you... I choose to "lighten up Francis!!"

[FTG]

Just because you're willing to be dragged "kicking and screaming" doesn't mean that everyone has no pride.

[Insomniac]

Check the dates again zippy!!

I am a seasoned fan who has a positive attitude in life (tends to happen when you've lost important things) and I choose to continue my love of motorsports rather that continue someone else's fight (some one who has long ago given up BTW)...

You may choose to continue holding a grudge forever... good for you... I choose to "lighten up Francis!!"

You may have a positive attitude, but it comes with arrogance. You, and other like you feel you know how others feel and think (and should feel and think as well).

[Racing Truth]

You may have a positive attitude, but it comes with arrogance. You, and other like you feel you know how others feel and think (and should feel and think as well).

Very right. I might make the same choice as Barrios (I'm just wired that way), but I certainly know why others won't, and I respect it.

[extramundane]

Very right. I might make the same choice as Barrios (I'm just wired that way), but I certainly know why others won't, and I respect it.

:thumbup:

I don't care to watch it- If Penske & Ganassi didn't make me want to watch 5 years ago, NHL & Forsythe aren't gonna do it now- but if someone else wants to, fine, go for it.

Just don't try to tell me that A) I'm not a "true fan" or B) it's just like 1995 again.

[Methanolandbrats]

Check the dates again zippy!!

I am a seasoned fan who has a positive attitude in life (tends to happen when you've lost important things) and I choose to continue my love of motorsports rather that continue someone else's fight (some one who has long ago given up BTW)...

You may choose to continue holding a grudge forever... good for you... I choose to "lighten up Francis!!" I love motorsports too. That's why I'm not watching it.

[OW]

Wow....
My little purposely placed "we'll tell ya" post in response to Methanolandbrats "I wont watch" caused a spark of fire...

:rofl: :rofl:

LOVE OPENWHEEL think future dudes....

[OW]

I'm betting you and Barrios are post split 'fans'.
:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead


Your NOT?

[Jag_Warrior]

LOVE OPENWHEEL think future dudes....

I'm with ya! :thumbup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44042000/jpg/_44042323_lewis416gt_aus.jpg

Unless Mélanie Doutey does a series of 7:30 AM Sunday morning home invasions on my property, wearing a cheerleader uniform and carrying multiple cans of whipped cream, I vow not to miss one second of one lap of any... F1 race! :cool:

[nrc]

Check the dates again zippy!!

I am a seasoned fan who has a positive attitude in life (tends to happen when you've lost important things) and I choose to continue my love of motorsports rather that continue someone else's fight (some one who has long ago given up BTW)...

You may choose to continue holding a grudge forever... good for you... I choose to "lighten up Francis!!"
The notion that you're a "true fan" while others don't get it is the sort of thing for 15 year old Britney fanatics, not "seasoned race fans".

The idea that holding a grudge is the only reason that some won't follow the IRL ignores what has been said here over and over again. The cars, the tracks, and the management are ample reason to dislike the IRL regardless of any grudge over past events. Evidently your notion of a "true fan" is someone who follows racing that doesn't interest them.

I quit following IMSA. I quit following Trans Am. I've never followed ALMS or Grand Am. That has nothing to do with grudges and everything to do with not wasting my time following racing that doesn't provide a product I'm interested in.

Aside from that, fans of the sport ("true" or not) have every right to be bitter over what's been lost over the last dozen years. It's true that it doesn't make sense to waste a lot of energy on that, but there's no reason to deny it or ignore it.

[OW]

Hey Boss... NOBODY is denying the hurt people feel...

Its only the *HOPE* that American Open Wheel will some day be Fantastic again.

I know I know that the current IRL is not the platform... but frankly we needed "this" and I *hope* that we all someday talk about technology instead of business..