Final thoughts [Archive] - Off Camber Forums

Racing Truth

02-22-08, 09:19 PM

I don't know what OC will become, but either way, I don't know how often I'll be forum-surfing now anyway. With that said, semi-final thoughts:

The sole reality during my fandom has been the Split. Fun, no? Knowing that a-holes on both sides would turn any on-track occurrence and politicize it, made the whole thing less enjoyable than it would have been.

Still, I fell in love with the on-track product. OW cars on great road and street circuits is spectacular. The same cars, done right, on real ovals like Phoenix, Milwaukee, Michigan, and I think many would admit, Indianapolis, will always be more compelling to me than NASCAR.

Memories-

Good: The Pass (Corkscrew), Greg Moore's first win, Moore v. (I think) Zanardi at Rio. 2000 US (HANFORD) 500. Alex coming back to finish 13 laps at Lausitz. CART dominance at Indy in '00 and '01. Attending 4 Clev. GP's.

Bad: Fontana '99:cry: (I was out with family that evening. When I came home, well, crushing). Jeff Krosnoff. Gonzalo Rodriguez. Tony Renna. Scott Brayton. Paul Dana.--- May they all Rest In Peace.:( --------- Lausitz: Sept. 2001- what a terrible week and a horrific (though, in the end, inspirational) conclusion.
--------------------------------------------------
Constant has been the decline of the sport we follow. The ultimate legacy of the last 12 yrs. is empty aluminum and utter apathy. It angers me, yes, but I feel so mentally tired of this, that I can't muster much. Bitterness seems appropriate.

So, a new reality begins for me. I hate the way it ended, but at least I can stop explaining the differences between the 2. Will I enjoy this? Maybe not. If so, I'll leave it for good. But here we are, at the end.

It's been (and will still be) real.:thumbup:

RT

TravelGal

02-22-08, 09:54 PM

Thanks for a good post RT. I think the one thing we need to remember is that it did not end with utter apathy. The internet posters fought to the end because so many of us do care. It's not only the internet posters either. There will be a LOT of people wondering what the heck happened when they gear up for their favorite race this year.

We may not have been the masses that were needed but we were many. And once the hurt wears off, we'll realize even more how very much we do (did) care.

I can't say I'll be looking at the racing parts but I'll still be a "Community" addict as long as the bosses are willing to keep this place open.

dando

02-22-08, 10:06 PM

Good summation, RT. :thumbup: I'll add Max running out of gas in the US 500 in that fabulous Miller Lite-Harley Davidson livery as a major bummer.

-Kevin

nrc

02-22-08, 10:12 PM

Zanardi coming through the field to win at Cleveland. Zanardi hitting everything but the lottery at MidOhio. Montoya's scintilating qualifying run in Detroit. Montoya and Andretti dueling at Milwaukee and Michigan. Herta destroying his tires trying to stay ahead of Zanardi at MidOhio. deFerran sitting in his car wheeping after his championship.

dando

02-22-08, 10:19 PM

Zanardi hitting everything but the lottery at MidOhio.

4x4 Reynard. :) :thumbup:

-Kevin

Wheel-Nut

02-22-08, 10:37 PM

JLMannin

02-22-08, 10:42 PM

Paintergeek

02-22-08, 10:57 PM

Here's a good memory. I think it was 1998 or 1999 at Road America - the year that Arnd Meier jumped the fence and landed by the camper.

Pual Tracy went into the gravel in the second turn and went from last to first to win the race. Egger and coffee for breakfast; bratwurst for lunch.

Carpentier's back-flip over the fence.....IN the car.

I really, really loved CART in the late 90's. What a shame it is what it is now. I remember My dad saying 'Your drivers name is WHAT?' when Helio was hired his rookie year.....Now he dances on reality TV. Odd times indeed. Its all business now, though. Ill watch.....I sorta have to......but looking at these cars the nxt two years will be rough. :yuck:

solpadeine

02-23-08, 01:51 AM

So many wonderful memories. One of the best for me was watching Moore approach the final turn at Detroit in '97 in third place when BOTH Gugelmin and Blundell ran out of fuel. When he crossed the line in front of me I jumped and screamed like a little kid and hugged everyone in the stands around me. It almost made up for my decision to skip Milwaukee the week before.

That little kid feeling was something this league always seemed to bring out in me--from back when I was a little kid watching the original legends--to when I was an adult watching the new legends. There were so many moments of sheer joy...when I knew that this was the greatest sport on the planet. Others may have had more money or technology, but we had Road America and Laguna Seca and Milwaukee and Michigan and Cleveland and Mid-Ohio...and so much more. Diversity of drivers, of tracks, of funding, of talent. It was all of this that made it what it was. How could anyone else say they have the best drivers? (OK, so I wasn't really following much sportscar or rally in those days) I thought we could take on the world. But then the reality of this world crept in.

It's amazing to find that I have almost completely ignored the series over the past 2-3 years. In the end it has helped to soften the blow. Still, there have been moments that have inspired in recent times, but it's not the same. With the passing of ChampCar I will weep. I will weep for those lost. For Greg and Gonzalo and Jeff and Scott. I will also weep tears of joy, like Pupo at Cleveland, for all the wonderful moments--too many to mention.

OK, so I probably don't care enough anymore to weep at the loss of the series. If I think hard enough about the past I'm sure I could weep. But right now it's more like a putting something out of its misery. Sad, but necessary.

Instead, with the passing, I will remember. I'll drink and I'll remember. I won't ever forget. Mears, Unser, Andretti, Fittipaldi, Rahal, Villeneuve, Zanardi, DeFerran, Montoya, Bourdais. (Hiro? Vitolo? St. James?)

Hopefully, with time, I will forget the bastards that conspired to take this amazing sport and reduce it to these smoldering remains. Hopefully, but not any time soon.

And maybe one day, the sport may enjoy a rebirth. And the leaders of the sport will come to the realization that there is something to be said for a diversity of drivers on a diverse series of ovals, road courses, superspeedways and street circuits.

Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath.

TravelGal

02-23-08, 02:37 AM

I remember the first time I heard a ChampCar live in person. Houston GP 1998, Friday morning practice trying to find a parking spot.

I heard them on the track and I just wanted to leave my truck in the middle of the street to go see what was making that beautiful music!!

Yeah, it was the sound. Everyone laughed when I said that I broke into tears the first time I heard it each race weekend. But I did.

It's the one thing that makes this even the slightest bit easier for me. The DP01's don't sound the same to me.

FCYTravis

02-23-08, 02:55 AM

The good:
Watching Champ Car on TV at its height back in the 90s... Portland, Laguna Seca, Detroit downtown, Vancouver, Road America, Mid-Ohio, Long Beach, Milwaukee, Surfers Paradise...

Seeing, hearing and smelling Champ Cars in person for the first time at Laguna Seca '03.

Bringing Max Papis a cup of water on live TV at Portland '03.

Paintballs on traitors and a friendly F2000 driver at Mid-Ohio '03.

Getting "Corner of the Day" from Jim Swintal after saving one of his paint chip sessions from going red at Rain America '03.

Getting to know all the lovable forum characters, from Sean O' to Spicoli.

The bad:
Monkeydancing out in the gravel trap and almost getting whacked by Carpentier's croissant at Laguna '03.

Endless downpours, delays and discontent at Rain America '03.

Bent-up Van Diemens at Mid-Ohio '03.

Watching Paul Gentilozzi cheat in Trans-Am at Long Beach '04.

Forum drama.

Black-flagging Ryan Dalziel at Laguna, giving the '04 Atlantic championship to some kid named Fogarty.

The ugly:
A flag-wearing Canadian at Mid-Ohio '03.

Watching this whole mess enter a death spiral. :(

greenie

02-23-08, 03:06 AM

FCYTravis

02-23-08, 03:10 AM

Good: Beatdown that the earltards took over the years, and rightly so. We won the debate if not the war. And they know it, because in the debate the CART fans were right and the IRL fans were either wrong or misled. No contest in fact.
Great point.

Tony now has what he wanted all along: All the old CART teams and the old CART races. I'm taking bets that Sparta, Kentucky and Foyt Racing are not long for this world in Toeknee's Grand New Open-Wheel Paradise (tm).

ferrarigod

02-23-08, 03:57 AM

Watching Paul Gentilozzi cheat in Trans-Am at Long Beach '04.

refresh my memory. :\

emjaya

02-23-08, 04:11 AM

Final thought? :\

jHPOzQzk9Qo

Gnam

02-23-08, 05:25 AM

This about covers it. :mad:
(not safe for small children or work) ;)

RqtgfjkB6Pg

Racing Truth

02-23-08, 01:39 PM

Racing Truth

02-23-08, 02:24 PM

Good: Great times at the track - will continue w/o a doubt.

Good: Beatdown that the earltards took over the years, and rightly so. We won the debate if not the war. And they know it, because in the debate the CART fans were right and the IRL fans were either wrong or misled. No contest in fact.

Good: OW racing is unified, because it was on it's last throws. This will help IMO, w/o a doubt.

Good: It's a form of entertainment (unless you are employed for a team or a series), and it's optional.

Good: The posers are out of the paddock, and are exposed as shams and losers.

Sol Goode.

#2 is so right, and I think we'll see that more in '09. This was about control: owners v. IMS. Nothing more, nothing less.

Meanwhile, various articles on the end and, they hope, a new beginning:

Oreo on ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=1&columnist=oreovicz_john&id=3259667)

More Oreo, on a "dream" '09 schedule. (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=1&columnist=oreovicz_john&id=3257898)

Terry Blount (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=1&columnist=blount_terry&id=3259478)

David Malsher (who?) (http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/malsher-starting-over)

02-23-08, 02:54 PM

TURBOs

The Turbo is dead...long live the Turbo..

Andrew Longman

02-23-08, 03:12 PM

More Oreo, on a "dream" '09 schedule. (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=1&columnist=oreovicz_john&id=3257898)

However, a strong argument could be made for resurrecting a few of those dead-duck Champ Car races in the future and adding them to the most successful events on the IRL calendar -- or bumping aside traditional IndyCar Series events that still don't attract fans to the track in a post-unification environment.

Strong argument to whom? TG will do whatever he likes. Logic is meaningless.

And for his dream schedule:

• Round 1: Feb. 20-22, St. Petersburg -- OK

• Round 2: March 7-8, Phoenix International Raceway -- Why? 5000 fans the last time wasn't enough to tell you the fans moved on?

• Round 3: March 13-15, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, Mexico City -- OK

• Round 4: March 27-28, Las Vegas Motor Speedway -- Not now that they've increased the backing. And both IRL and CC were already run out of there.

• Round 5: April 3-5, Long Beach -- OK

• Round 6: April 17-18, Twin Ring Motegi, Japan -- "Ship the cars and equipment from Los Angeles, then give the teams a week to catch up. " Huh? That's not how they pack for flyaways. Besides loading the freighter in Indy or LAX makes little difference.

• Round 7: April 25-26, Kansas Speedway -- Zzzzzzz

• Round 8: May 2-3, Kentucky Speedway -- Zzzzzzz

• May 8-10, 13-15, Indy practice days -- "Cut back the number of practice days to condense activity for fans and reduce costs for teams. " Cut back on days at Indy? Heracy!!! :gomer:

• May 16-17, Indianapolis 500 qualifying -- "Two days is plenty, even if real bumping makes a comeback." But Tony has this exciting new format!!!

• May 22 -- Carb Day.

• Round 9: May 24 -- 91st Indianapolis 500.

• Round 10: May 29-30, Texas Motor Speedway -- I suppose, but Milwaukee should follow Indy

• Round 11: June 6-7, The Milwaukee Mile -- See above. Still need to rip downforce out of the sleds

• Round 12: June 19-21, Portland International Raceway -- OK

• Round 13: June 26-28, Edmonton airport circuit -- OK

• Round 14: July 3-5, Cleveland airport circuit -- OK

• Round 15: July 17-18, Richmond International Raceway -- OK... with less downdforce

• Round 16: July 24-26, Toronto -- OK, Should be earlier though.

• Round 17: Aug. 7-9, Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course -- Yes

• Round 18: Aug. 14-16, Road America -- Must

• Round 19: Sept. 5-7, Detroit Belle Isle -- OK

• Round 20: Sept. 11-12, Chicagoland Speedway -- Zzzzzz.

Where is a serious superspeedway such as MIS or Fontana?

Racing Truth

02-23-08, 03:23 PM

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What once was...

Mary

02-23-08, 03:30 PM

What once was...

This was the last time I watched and I don't plan on watching again. Except when I see something like this (thanks to Youtube) I don't even miss it anymore. Sad, sad, sad.....

Mary

nrc

02-23-08, 03:56 PM

• Round 1: Feb. 20-22, St. Petersburg -- OK

Reason for the split #1, too much street racing.

• Round 6: April 17-18, Twin Ring Motegi, Japan -- "Ship the cars and equipment from Los Angeles, then give the teams a week to catch up. " Huh? That's not how they pack for flyaways. Besides loading the freighter in Indy or LAX makes little difference.
Reason for the split #2, too much emphasis on overseas events, not enough focus on Merkun racin'.

• May 8-10, 13-15, Indy practice days -- "Cut back the number of practice days to condense activity for fans and reduce costs for teams. " Cut back on days at Indy? Heracy!!! :gomer:

• May 16-17, Indianapolis 500 qualifying -- "Two days is plenty, even if real bumping makes a comeback." But Tony has this exciting new format!!!
Reason for the split #3, threats to Indy tradition.

cameraman

02-23-08, 04:53 PM

You folks do remember that Tony George just signed to open the 2009 IRL season in the Turks & Caicos don't you? Dream schedule? Try dream on...

Gnam

02-23-08, 05:32 PM

What once was...
That was great. Thanks.

Gotta love the Delta Force theme song. :thumbup:

cart7

02-23-08, 05:41 PM

Where is a serious superspeedway such as MIS or Fontana?

1997

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3714/fontana1997zh2.jpg

2004

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3681/fontana2004agz0.jpg

I wouldn't waste the money to open the gates for that turnout.

Duroc

02-23-08, 05:55 PM

You folks do remember that Tony George just signed to open the 2009 IRL season in the Turks & Caicos don't you? Dream schedule? Try dream on...

American Indycar Series II? Full speed ahead!

Insomniac

02-23-08, 06:58 PM

Where is a serious superspeedway such as MIS or Fontana?

ISC told TG (and CART before that) to go away (I doubt they were that polite).

Insomniac

02-23-08, 07:01 PM

1997

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3714/fontana1997zh2.jpg

2004

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3681/fontana2004agz0.jpg

I wouldn't waste the money to open the gates for that turnout.

CART vs IRL (although, you can partly attribute the drop in crowds as a result of the three spectators killed in 1998)

Andrew Longman

02-23-08, 07:04 PM

ISC told TG (and CART before that) to go away (I doubt they were that polite).

I wouldn't waste the money to open the gates for that turnout.

No doubt, but if Oreo is considering Phoenix and reaching for a legit schedule, why not include at least one track where they race faster than any other series in the world. Practicalities and TGs whim aside it is part of rebuilding a series worth watching.

Wheel-Nut

02-26-08, 07:02 PM

Maybe we'll get a chance to see Carl slap chip again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7wvKxCZDus

Wheel-Nut

02-26-08, 07:12 PM

They never saw it coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fntJ6ItH8Uc