View Full Version : The future of Off Camber
Now it's time to have the discussion.
Off Camber will continue. We'll still be "forums for the champcar enthusiast" but I suppose "champcar" has become an ideal instead of a series.
On our own princples we will not be doing anything to support the IRL. We will not spend our own money supporting Tony George or his series in it's current form. If enough champ car enthusiasts feel a need for an IRL specific forum they can pay to sponsor it.
The Champ car topic will not be used to discuss Tony George's series. We haven't decided exactly what the disposition for that topic will be, but we know that much. We may close it and leave it as a record of a once-great racing series or we may morph it into a Champ car history forum. Your feedback is welcome.
We have no delusions of our place on Internet universe. We're a small community of folks that have been brought together by a shared interest. Whether Off Camber will maintain enough traffic to sustain that community in the absence of a series to provide focus remains to be seen. We hope so.
To foster that we will need to reorganize our racing forums. We feel that a key to that process is making sure the each topic has enough traffic to support ongoing interest and activity. Right now we're thinking about reorganizing the racing forums into three topics: open wheel, sports cars, and other.
Thoughts?
How about Formula One, sportscars, and other?
Lock up the Champ Car forum after we are all through expressing final thoughts.
Renaming it Nostalgia might work....we can continue posting there in that case.
Rename other forums.
I`m for having a a general racing forum like AtlasF1...or not.
If that don`t work, the separators can be Nostalgia, F1, sports cars and "other".
Don Quixote
02-22-08, 10:18 PM
I like those suggestions. Nostalgia, F1, Sportscars, Other, maybe keep the Ladders forum also. How 'bout a darkside forum. :D
extramundane
02-22-08, 10:19 PM
I like the CC forum turning into a history/nostalgia piece. Maybe lock old threads but not the whole forum?
I think a dedicated sportscar forum would be a nice idea too. As it stands, it's impossible to find one that doesn't devolve into I'm-an-insider-I-told-you-so stuff when someone dares ask a question.
And there's always bacon!
Keep the board for the sake of history. The rest can remain as is unless we can have a Foytility board. :gomer:
As always, thanks Richard and Missy. :cool: :thumbup:
-Kevin
As always, thanks Richard and Missy. :cool: :thumbup:
true dat!:thumbup:
Sean Malone
02-22-08, 11:18 PM
Lock it. The page has turned. Anyone interested can browse to their hearts desire, but it should be preserved as a place of memories. (yes I love melodrama. I'm a freakin' musician for chrst sake!).
I know this all has happened very quickly, and knowing that you, boss, eh hm, bosses!), do not care for F1, are you looking at other series to follow such as the ALMS or MotoGP motorcycles or drag racing or heck, even giving F1 a shot?
Just curious. I'm really looking forward to sink my teeth into the ALMS this year. I've also made a promise to myself to watch every MotoGP race and of course I'm a HUGE F1 nut so there will be much to talk about.
Can't wait to see how Seabass does!!!
Thanks for keepin' it going guys.
*standing ovation*
Opposite Lock
02-22-08, 11:33 PM
Keep the board for the sake of history.
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/member.php?u=48
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/member.php?u=48
:cry:
And 4Runner among other. We've lost too many. :(
What would 'bird think about all of this?
-Kevin
Sean O'Gorman
02-22-08, 11:57 PM
I think it would be most appropriate to just have this as a Champ Car history forum. Subforums could be Champ Car, F1, Others, Off-Topic, and Spicoli.
Methanolandbrats
02-23-08, 12:10 AM
The following sections:
Vintage
Formula One
ALMS
Current American Open Wheel
Why Grand Am Sucks
Other
Champ Car/CART
Grassroots Motorsports
General Discussion
Meat Smoking
:cry:
And 4Runner among other. We've lost too many. :(
What would 'bird think about all of this?
-Kevin
Probably "Drop the flag." :) :cry: I would never want to speak for Railbird, but he certainly had no love for Tony George, his toadies, or their idea of racing.
Just what would Tony George, Brian Barnhardt, Dallara, G-Force, and Toyota, Honda and Chevworth's gutless wonders of 3.0l NA V8s on a bunch of highbanked ovals add
Exactly my thoughts. While I'm not quite stupid enough to not see the advantage of a single series, I have no desire to see that formula or that management involved in any way.
They can't sell it in their own hometown so why would anybody think it could prove successful elsewhere?
At this point in time all they have going for them is manufacture's money and we all know where that will lead.
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?p=59332&highlight=George#post59332
Sean Malone
02-23-08, 12:49 AM
Probably "Drop the flag." :) :cry: I would never want to speak for Railbird, but he certainly had no love for Tony George, his toadies, or their idea of racing.
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?p=59332&highlight=George#post59332
:thumbup:
I know this all has happened very quickly, and knowing that you, boss, eh hm, bosses!), do not care for F1, are you looking at other series to follow such as the ALMS or MotoGP motorcycles or drag racing or heck, even giving F1 a shot?
Autocross. ;)
No, we're not actively looking to adopt a new series. I think that has to come on it's own. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. There's plenty of lawn work to be done. Besides, the fact that we take an interest in something doesn't mean that anyone else here will. If the forum finds a new focus it will happen on its own.
cameraman
02-23-08, 01:15 AM
I don't think you should mess with things too much. How about:
ALMS/LMS
Formula 1
The Ladders
The Others
Gatherings
Community
Feedback
Keep Grand Am in The Others to minimize pissing matches
Autocross. ;)
If the forum finds a new focus it will happen on its own.Yer like, smart an' ****.
ALMS!!
MotoGP
Atlantics
Tony's New League.
I WILL follow TNL, if they adopt real racecars, sort of. To see what can be done with it.
I am a CARTFAN. Til then, see ya at the ALMS races, I guess.
FCYTravis
02-23-08, 02:38 AM
I want to echo the thanks to Richard and Missy for starting this discussion, and for having had this place be what it has been for the past years - an oasis of general sanity in the crazy world of open-wheel forums. It is a quirky but wonderful group of people brought together by a shared love of cars that turn right and left. Thanks to everyone who has participated.
I think keeping a CART/Champ Car history forum would be great... my racing fix might well come from rewatching old CART races. Anyone wanna start swapping vids? ;)
CART Nostalgia
ALMS
F1
Ladders (this could become a most interesting forum...)
The Others
Grassroots Motorsports
Gatherings
Community
Feedback
greenie
02-23-08, 03:16 AM
I'd hope that this forum stays intact because it's a great, polite little niche in the sewer that's been the open wheel, open cockpit, rear engine, semi-American, formula racing innerweb world. :cool:
Napoleon
02-23-08, 08:38 AM
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/member.php?u=48
When I heard the news one of my first thoughts were of him.
In any event Missy and Richard thanks for this place and I intend to keep coming here. Personally i would keep the Champcar forum open, although perhaps call it Champcar Nostalgia and perhaps open some other current racing forums.
Probably "Drop the flag." :) :cry: I would never want to speak for Railbird, but he certainly had no love for Tony George, his toadies, or their idea of racing.
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?p=59332&highlight=George#post59332
Run it by Sue and Nick first. I am sure they would agree, but...
WickerBill
02-23-08, 10:36 AM
This will probably upset the majority of you...
I will probably watch the new Tony Racing League. I was a fan of American open-wheel racing before CART, and trust me, the management back then was hideous. But, you see, I didn't watch for the management, nor did I stop enjoying it because the toadies at USAC kept screwing the pooch.
My opinion is that Bud Selig is a tool and has done more harm to baseball than good, but I still love my Red Sox and want them to win. I blame labor unrest and the steroid era squarely on him, but I still watch Yankees games so I can root for the other team with all my might.
In no way am I saying I made some sort of mistake in 1994 by hating the idea of Tony's league. I saw through his lies about the reasons for it then and I saw his real motivations plain as day. I chose the right side, even though it wasn't the winning side. I was rewarded with ovals and road courses and street racing; I was rewarded with fantastic personalities and a change from the monotony of NASCAR and the IRLs cookie cutter ovals every weekend.
I know the Indianapolis 500, my home race and my first love, is irreparably damaged. I know the 33% growth rate CART was experiencing (according to Sports Illustrated) in 1993 is gone for good, and it is niche city from here on out. I know a decent chunk of NASCARs growth has been at open wheel's expense.
And I sure as hell know who is responsible for all of it.
But I love open wheel racing; my love for it is older than my hatred for Tony. I will probably watch.
I'm not sure I want to live in a world where I can't root for Paul Tracy to wreck.
All that being said, I would like to have a place -- a civilized place -- where I can talk to other people about this thing I'm going to watch. I love this forum, and I love her tagline, and I don't want her to go anywhere. I really don't want the five years of CART threads to go away. They aren't just Champ car history, they are our history.
So, my suggestion, and I don't want it to carry any more weight than anyone else's, is that the ChampCar forum remain in some iteration, either locked or changed into history, and that the Formula 1 forum be changed to "Open Wheel Racing" or "Open Wheel Formula Racing" or something similar. All F1 and Tony Racing League posts go into that one forum, creating a sustainable, dynamic forum for talking about any type of top-tier (sigh... yes, I know) open-wheel racing. It does not have to be the first forum on the list; that should always be the CART one; but it will be the most popular because it is conversation about current events, not older ones.
When new members join in 2011 and say "whoa, why a CART board first?"... I think we'd all be pretty happy to explain, reminisce, and tell them about what brought us together in the first place.
I hope everyone doesn't hate me now.
WB
Methanolandbrats
02-23-08, 11:08 AM
All very reasonable, if you can keep food down while watching the IRL, you should watch it if you want to. I'm not too sure about blending F1 and IRL in "open wheel", they really don't go together and I don't want to wade through IRL threads to find F1 threads.
Napoleon
02-23-08, 11:24 AM
I hope everyone doesn't hate me now.
WB
We will give you a pass, Boss.
Sean Malone
02-23-08, 12:02 PM
Great post WB. :thumbup:
Andrew Longman
02-23-08, 12:11 PM
First, thanks bosses for hosting this place and thanks to all members for contributing in such a positive way.
Second, I have to say that that I'm probably aligned with WB on this. I wasn't crazy about CART forming but quickly saw the benefits. 08 will totally suck and while I don't have great optimism for beyond, I have hope. However, TG will never get my forgiveness and he still must produce a good product to get my interest.
It would be nice to have a place to discuss the product with fair minded people. It might not be worth watching now, but that can change. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it.
Insomniac
02-23-08, 12:24 PM
I'd suggest you leave everything as is for now and see what happens. If people start posting OT stuff in the CC forum, then you may need to lock it. See what people like to talk about. If one topic merits it's own sub-forum, then consider it then. Or maybe you won't like what is being discussed on your site and it would make sense to shut it down? You also may not like, or want to moderate, IRL discussions.
and it is niche city from here on out.
Where the hell where you when I needed some support?
Life's too short to watch ugly cars. I might drift back in 2009 if they get some better cars.
OC has been a KK, PG,,,,, CCF hate site for a couple years now. No reason to change. They'll still be out there.
cameraman
02-23-08, 12:49 PM
I surely won't hate anyone who watches. Just as the F1 and Champ Car boards were kept separate I think the F1 board and any IRL board should be kept separate. You might need to find news moderators for that one tho....
I detest Honda/Dallaras. If the IRL didn't actively suck then this whole thing would have been different. If someone can convince TG to create a series where the cars don't suck, I'll probably watch it. I've got to say that I will probably follow the series just to see how people do so a discussion wouldn't be bad. I just can't bring myself to watch it.
Uh, this forum already has a place for IRL discussion. It's called The Others. It's been there for a while now.
Racing Truth
02-23-08, 03:27 PM
This will probably upset the majority of you...
I will probably watch the new Tony Racing League. I was a fan of American open-wheel racing before CART, and trust me, the management back then was hideous. But, you see, I didn't watch for the management, nor did I stop enjoying it because the toadies at USAC kept screwing the pooch.
My opinion is that Bud Selig is a tool and has done more harm to baseball than good, but I still love my Red Sox and want them to win. I blame labor unrest and the steroid era squarely on him, but I still watch Yankees games so I can root for the other team with all my might.
In no way am I saying I made some sort of mistake in 1994 by hating the idea of Tony's league. I saw through his lies about the reasons for it then and I saw his real motivations plain as day. I chose the right side, even though it wasn't the winning side. I was rewarded with ovals and road courses and street racing; I was rewarded with fantastic personalities and a change from the monotony of NASCAR and the IRLs cookie cutter ovals every weekend.
I know the Indianapolis 500, my home race and my first love, is irreparably damaged. I know the 33% growth rate CART was experiencing (according to Sports Illustrated) in 1993 is gone for good, and it is niche city from here on out. I know a decent chunk of NASCARs growth has been at open wheel's expense.
And I sure as hell know who is responsible for all of it.
But I love open wheel racing; my love for it is older than my hatred for Tony. I will probably watch.
I'm not sure I want to live in a world where I can't root for Paul Tracy to wreck.
All that being said, I would like to have a place -- a civilized place -- where I can talk to other people about this thing I'm going to watch. I love this forum, and I love her tagline, and I don't want her to go anywhere. I really don't want the five years of CART threads to go away. They aren't just Champ car history, they are our history.
So, my suggestion, and I don't want it to carry any more weight than anyone else's, is that the ChampCar forum remain in some iteration, either locked or changed into history, and that the Formula 1 forum be changed to "Open Wheel Racing" or "Open Wheel Formula Racing" or something similar. All F1 and Tony Racing League posts go into that one forum, creating a sustainable, dynamic forum for talking about any type of top-tier (sigh... yes, I know) open-wheel racing. It does not have to be the first forum on the list; that should always be the CART one; but it will be the most popular because it is conversation about current events, not older ones.
When new members join in 2011 and say "whoa, why a CART board first?"... I think we'd all be pretty happy to explain, reminisce, and tell them about what brought us together in the first place.
I hope everyone doesn't hate me now.
WB
Strong post, Boss.:thumbup:
TKGAngel
02-23-08, 04:17 PM
I like the idea of a Champ Car nostalgia forum. There's some really great stories and experiences that we've all had because of Champ Car / CART. Whether its meeting up with posters and sharing a beer or talking about races past, there's definitely going to be a lot of nostalgia sharing going on.
I definitely wouldn't want to lose the Community forum. I've learned way too much about beer, recipes and bacon from everyone here. Besides, its also funny reading the smack talk during football/baseball/college football season.
Despite whatever form OC takes in the future, thank you nrc and racegrrl for maintaining an oasis in the internet forum craziness.
Warlock!
02-23-08, 04:18 PM
ALMS/LMS
Formula 1
The Ladders
The Others
Gatherings
Community
Feedback
And throw the locked CART/Champcar forum at the top for browsing purposes.
Thanks Rich and Grrrrrrrrrrlll. :thumbup:
I don't hate anyone who chooses to follow Tony's series now. I just think it's a mistake to reward stupidity and expect to ever get anything different. I also think it's a mistake to reward someone for doing irrepairable damage to the sport, but I accept putting your own interests first above "justice" for "the sport". Nobody inside the sport puts it's interests above their own, so why should anyone outside?
On the topic of topics. I understand the desire that some of you have expressed for a more granular breakdown of forums than we've mentioned. There's a real temptation to segregate and categorize things. But forum topics need traffic to remain active and attract interest and without any existing focus on some of these areas I don't believe we'll have that. It will be easy to add topics later if they're needed. It might kill the forum if we spread ourselves too thin right away.
The Formula One forum is a conundrum. It is only marginally active. Maybe that's not a fair assessment because it suffers more during the off-season. I fear for whether it can stay active if forum traffic drops off at all.
Insomniac
02-23-08, 07:31 PM
I don't hate anyone who chooses to follow Tony's series now. I just think it's a mistake to reward stupidity and expect to ever get anything different. I also think it's a mistake to reward someone for doing irrepairable damage to the sport, but I accept putting your own interests first above "justice" for "the sport". Nobody inside the sport puts it's interests above their own, so why should anyone outside?
On the topic of topics. I understand the desire that some of you have expressed for a more granular breakdown of forums than we've mentioned. There's a real temptation to segregate and categorize things. But forum topics need traffic to remain active and attract interest and without any existing focus on some of these areas I don't believe we'll have that. It will be easy to add topics later if they're needed. It might kill the forum if we spread ourselves too thin right away.
The Formula One forum is a conundrum. It is only marginally active. Maybe that's not a fair assessment because it suffers more during the off-season. I fear for whether it can stay active if forum traffic drops off at all.
The main problem you face is that we all joined here because of CC. But you've seen many posts from people about how they just like the community. So, in the other forums, you had CC fans (at one time) posting in other forums/topics they found interesting. This obviously isn't an F1 forum, which explains the lack of activity in that forum outside of race weekends, controversies and big news/announcements.
Do you have a desire to morph this into a forum focused on something else (you really won't have many people trying to join a Champ Car forum) or do you want to keep it going for the community you have built over the last few years?
I personally look at this as a place where I can talk with people who have knowledge about racing and don't lack sense. Most forums either lack race fans of any type besides NASCAR or nut job race fans who make no sense. The Community forum is really cool too, since we can have OT discussions with intelligent people with a wide variety of backgrounds.
Like I said before, try leaving everything as is and see what people do. We can talk about all racing in "Others" and everything else not banned in "Community".
Where the hell where you when I needed some support?
Life's too short to watch ugly cars. I might drift back in 2009 if they get some better cars.
OC has been a KK, PG,,,,, CCF hate site for a couple years now. No reason to change. They'll still be out there.
Calling this site a hate site is bad form, and also untrue. :thumdown:
The main problem you face is that we all joined here because of CC.
Not true! I joined because Warlock! promised me access to the back door of a pr0n forum! :cry:
TravelGal
02-24-08, 02:35 AM
But forum topics need traffic to remain active and attract interest and without any existing focus on some of these areas I don't believe we'll have that. It will be easy to add topics later if they're needed. It might kill the forum if we spread ourselves too thin right away.
The Formula One forum is a conundrum. It is only marginally active. Maybe that's not a fair assessment because it suffers more during the off-season. I fear for whether it can stay active if forum traffic drops off at all.
There is truth in the fact that one doesn't want to see a forum with no posts for a week. It is possible that the F1 board may be more active now that there is one less open wheel series to watch.
I think until we know for sure how this thing we had is going to be broken up and parceled out (forgive me if I missed what is happening to Atlantics, I can't bear to read much these past two days), it is a good idea to leave the present forum topics. As you say, if a new topic is needed, it will be self-evident by the posts.
I'm certain there will be a desire to trash talk about how "our" drivers are doing vs the others so there should be a place for it. Using "the Others" for what will happen this year seems particularly well suited. It's surreal and not worthy of any particular name.
No matter what, I thank you all for being here and look forward to your being here for a long time to come. I mean, c'mon. I have to buy a new cell phone sometime this decade and without you guys..... ;)
greenie
02-24-08, 02:51 AM
Great post WB. :thumbup:
No doubt. :cool:
Calling this site a hate site is bad form, and also untrue. :thumdown:
Not me, I joined because of the racing discussions, I think I have served my time in purgatory, time too let me be free:)
When we open up OC and get the "taking you to the forums" screen, can we get rid of the "smock smock smock" banner and have I Am Mindy play instead?
kthxbainow
:gomer:
This will probably upset the majority of you...
[snip]
I hope everyone doesn't hate me now.
WB
I absolutely, positively could not have said it better myself, nor could I agree more. Superb post. :thumbup:
When we open up OC and get the "taking you to the forums" screen, can we get rid of the "smock smock smock" banner and have I Am Mindy play instead?
Nobody notices changes to the front page anyway. ;)
Nobody notices changes to the front page anyway. ;)
I still miss the title page where 'Off Camber' was shadowed with yellow... :cool:
Sean Malone
02-28-08, 04:43 PM
I still miss the title page where 'Off Camber' was shadowed with yellow... :cool:
Freak.
:D
I say go full blown gomer.
Many can't post at gomers r' us forums and will need to disucss the current American formula car series without being harassed by a bunch of bootlicking sagamore choad chokers.
The following sections:
Vintage
Formula One
ALMS
Current American Open Wheel
Why Grand Am Sucks
Other
Champ Car/CART
Grassroots Motorsports
General Discussion
Meat Smoking
:thumbup:
I would also like to add Sim Racing.
ferrarigod
02-29-08, 10:51 AM
What would 'bird think about all of this?
-Kevin
something like this?
No unification if it involves TG as anything other than a promoter @ 16th&G'town .
as far as the forum is concerned, i vote F1 keeps the thread area, maybe add ALMS to the mix. Keep the others, otherly denoted.
Lux Interior
02-29-08, 08:56 PM
Don't post here a lot, but do read here and would like to post more. Here's my two cents:
ALMS and Sportscars
F1
Atlantics (champcar still owns it)
CART/Champcar history
Community forums, etc.
So here's what we've decided so far...
Not much on the forums, but those hoping for a lot of new forums will probably be disappointed. There's just not enough traffic to support too much specialization.
The last Champ Car World Series race will be April 20th, so the CCWS forum will close at midnight that night. Be sure to get your race discussion in before then. ;)
The forum will close because I'll be taking a long weekend to catch up on server updates and that's the logical time to make the change. We really need some system and forum updates and the process will take some time, probably about a day.
But there is some risk that something could go wrong during the system updates. If that happens, the hosting company will have to get involved to resolve the problem. So we'll be down for a day if things go well but perhaps a week if disaster should strike.
We'll post stickies alerting people of the plan as the date approaches.
ferrarigod
02-29-08, 09:40 PM
[QUOTE=nrc;224282 If that happens, the hosting company will have to get involved to resolve the problem. So we'll be down for a day if things go well but perhaps a week if disaster should strike.[/QUOTE]
most of the plan sounds good, but to those not regular enough who are just looking for the discussion they may think, like ccf, that we are gone. may not be a good idea to disappear for the non-regular/regulars.
most of the plan sounds good, but to those not regular enough who are just looking for the discussion they may think, like ccf, that we are gone. may not be a good idea to disappear for the non-regular/regulars.
We'll have stickies up for probably a month before and as long as the server doesn't blow up there will be an "under construction" notice up during most of the day.
something like this?
as far as the forum is concerned, i vote F1 keeps the thread area, maybe add ALMS to the mix. Keep the others, otherly denoted.
Where TF did you find that quote?
JLMannin
03-01-08, 10:32 AM
Here. (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=96228&postcount=5)
whatever you feel like doing, please, bounce it off Spicoli first :gomer:
Kahauna Dreamer
03-02-08, 03:00 PM
You have a nice site
those not regular enough who are just looking for the discussion they may think, like ccf, that we are gone.
Why not send an e-mail to everyone advising of the temporary interruption.
Why not send an e-mail to everyone advising of the temporary interruption.
Good idea. First I'll need to send an email reminding everyone to update their email address in their profile. :gomer:
I hadn't thought of because I'm so averse to mass mailing. What I'll probably do is save a mailing list and then send out a status notice if things go sour and we're offline more than just overnight.
Good idea. First I'll need to send an email reminding everyone to update their email address in their profile. :gomer:
Thanks for the reminder, Boss. Can we have a Bengals forum while we're redecorating? ;)
-Kevin
cameraman
03-05-08, 12:32 AM
Good idea. First I'll need to send an email reminding everyone to update their email address in their profile. :gomer:
Hey, hey, hey, hey! Okay then, you might also remind folks that if they change their email address they will not be able to post until they reply to the Action Required to Verify Email Change for Off Camber Forums email.
Hey, hey, hey, hey! Okay then, you might also remind folks that if they change their email address they will not be able to post until they reply to the Action Required to Verify Email Change for Off Camber Forums email.
Except that the re-activation e-mail is mentioned when the user enters a request for the change. I, myself, saw dat shizzle, yo. ;)
-Kevin
cameraman
03-05-08, 12:44 AM
So that is what was on that page that flashed up for less than a second after I changed my email address.:saywhat: Using Safari on a Mac. Literally, it blinks on for about a second and then it goes away. Even knowing (this time around) the gist of what it said I still didn't have time to read it.
So that is what was on that page that flashed up for less than a second after I changed my email address.:saywhat: Using Safari on a Mac. Literally, it blinks on for about a second and then it goes away. Even knowing (this time around) the gist of what it said I still didn't have time to read it.
Well, I myself think that that Teaches you to use a Mac or Safari. :p ;)
-Kevin
Hey, hey, hey, hey! Okay then, you might also remind folks that if they change their email address they will not be able to post until they reply to the Action Required to Verify Email Change for Off Camber Forums email.
I didn't know. :)
Thanks for the reminder, Boss. Can we have a Bengals forum while we're redecorating? ;)
-Kevin
that'd be worse than an earl board.
Don Quixote
03-05-08, 08:34 PM
Thanks for the reminder, Boss. Can we have a Bengals forum while we're redecorating? ;)
-Kevin Let's call it "NFL players in jail"
Mike Kellner
03-08-08, 02:32 PM
I just read this whole string. I realize I haven't been around and my opinion doesn't count for much, but here goes.
I hope this place stays open as a sane fun place for grownup racing fans to discuss racing.
I am undecided on locking vs nostalgia forum for Champcar. I am afraid that a CC Nostalgia forum would turn in to the cage of death for the partisan die hards, and host the "Decade of Recrimination". Not a place many amongst the sane would care to visit. Let the Crappies host that.
I have run forums, successful & failed, and know from hard experience that fractionation can kill a small forum.
Therefore, I would have a combined F1 & IRL forum, or F1, IRL, and ALMS forum, basically a Pro Series forum for us elitists, and another for the rest. IF IndyCar recovers, and generates a ton of posts, a separate IRL forum could be made when traffic warrants.
~ ~ ~
As for me, F1 is my favorite series now. I all but quit watching CC, maybe 3 races a year, the same as I watched NASCAR. I am going to give everything a chance this year. I still want to be a IndyCar fan, but they have to come up with something worth watching. ALMS looks a lot like IMSA, and I am not sure I can stay awake for that on a regular basis, but on race free weekends I might give them a shot. I am going to check out MotoGP. Their races always keep my interest when I stumble upon them. I may start taping them and learning the series.
Anyway, I haven't completely given up yet, and will post here when I have anything worth saying.
mk
Brickman
03-08-08, 02:37 PM
So here's what we've decided so far...
Not much on the forums, but those hoping for a lot of new forums will probably be disappointed. There's just not enough traffic to support too much specialization.
The last Champ Car World Series race will be April 20th, so the CCWS forum will close at midnight that night. Be sure to get your race discussion in before then. ;)
The forum will close because I'll be taking a long weekend to catch up on server updates and that's the logical time to make the change. We really need some system and forum updates and the process will take some time, probably about a day.
But there is some risk that something could go wrong during the system updates. If that happens, the hosting company will have to get involved to resolve the problem. So we'll be down for a day if things go well but perhaps a week if disaster should strike.
We'll post stickies alerting people of the plan as the date approaches.
Bump for MK.
EDwardo
03-08-08, 08:22 PM
This will probably upset the majority of you...
I will probably watch the new Tony Racing League. I was a fan of American open-wheel racing before CART, and trust me, the management back then was hideous. But, you see, I didn't watch for the management, nor did I stop enjoying it because the toadies at USAC kept screwing the pooch.
My opinion is that Bud Selig is a tool and has done more harm to baseball than good, but I still love my Red Sox and want them to win. I blame labor unrest and the steroid era squarely on him, but I still watch Yankees games so I can root for the other team with all my might.
In no way am I saying I made some sort of mistake in 1994 by hating the idea of Tony's league. I saw through his lies about the reasons for it then and I saw his real motivations plain as day. I chose the right side, even though it wasn't the winning side. I was rewarded with ovals and road courses and street racing; I was rewarded with fantastic personalities and a change from the monotony of NASCAR and the IRLs cookie cutter ovals every weekend.
I know the Indianapolis 500, my home race and my first love, is irreparably damaged. I know the 33% growth rate CART was experiencing (according to Sports Illustrated) in 1993 is gone for good, and it is niche city from here on out. I know a decent chunk of NASCARs growth has been at open wheel's expense.
And I sure as hell know who is responsible for all of it.
But I love open wheel racing; my love for it is older than my hatred for Tony. I will probably watch.
I'm not sure I want to live in a world where I can't root for Paul Tracy to wreck.
All that being said, I would like to have a place -- a civilized place -- where I can talk to other people about this thing I'm going to watch. I love this forum, and I love her tagline, and I don't want her to go anywhere. I really don't want the five years of CART threads to go away. They aren't just Champ car history, they are our history.
So, my suggestion, and I don't want it to carry any more weight than anyone else's, is that the ChampCar forum remain in some iteration, either locked or changed into history, and that the Formula 1 forum be changed to "Open Wheel Racing" or "Open Wheel Formula Racing" or something similar. All F1 and Tony Racing League posts go into that one forum, creating a sustainable, dynamic forum for talking about any type of top-tier (sigh... yes, I know) open-wheel racing. It does not have to be the first forum on the list; that should always be the CART one; but it will be the most popular because it is conversation about current events, not older ones.
When new members join in 2011 and say "whoa, why a CART board first?"... I think we'd all be pretty happy to explain, reminisce, and tell them about what brought us together in the first place.
I hope everyone doesn't hate me now.
WB
This post got my attention due to my respect for WB. My respect is based on his many years as a racing enthusiast as well as quite a few conversations I've had with him in OCs' chatroom over the years. For those who don't know, WB was the founder of OffCamber and he expertly and with great wisdom and demeanor laid the foundations of this forum before giving the keys to NRC and racegrrl. (I am compelled, however, to mention that my praise for him is despite, as far as I know, the only character flaw he possesses, which is his fondness for the Denver Broncos)
I understand his conditional willingness to watch the latest incarnation of US open wheel in spite of its owner and the near total destruction he inflicted on the sport. Unlike WB, I am unwilling to overlook 12 years of the incompetence and ineptitude of the individual responsible for the current state of open wheel.
Like WB and presumably most racing fans, I have varying degrees of interest in several other sports. The best way I can explain why I am unable to overlook the damage caused by Tony George is to make comparisons to some other.
I was a life long fan of baseball. Until a dispute between the players and owners in 1994 resulted in canceling a world series. I lost all interest in baseball and in 14 years I have only attended 2 games, both of which were company events that I found necessary to attend (besides, free food and beer).
I also have been a lifelong fan of football. The players strike in 1987 resulted in 3 games played with replacement players. The Chiefs were so bad that year that it was hard to tell any difference between the regulars and the replacements. Although I was angry about the strike, it was short and I remain a fan.
Ice Hockey is my last example. When the 2004-2005 NHL season (including the Stanley Cup) was canceled I was appalled. The big difference I saw between this and MLB canceling the World Series was that the NHL was on the verge of financial collapse. I decided to reserve judgement until I saw the outcome of such a dramatic series of events. When the new NHL emerged with sound economic restructuring, an understanding that disaffected fans would need encouragement to return, and an improved product, I was able to accept what had happened and remain a fan.
As for combining F1 and the "Tony Racing League" into one forum......
Bad idea. Please don't do it.
Despite the revulsion that I and many other members continue to have for the TRL, I think that adding a forum for those who share WBs' sentiments would be a reasonable alternative.
I hope that the F1 forum will be given a chance to remain even though it has not up to now been very active. I think that with the demise of Champcar it might possibly draw more interest and participation.
I almost forgot. Hideous 5 year old eyesores called Dallaras combined with the brain damaging audio atrocity emitted by Honda engines.
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