Minardi says, "No thanks"

[cart7]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65634

They just don't know what 3 wide at 220mph means I guess.

[KLang]

So FTG is still going to be a little short of cars come May? :laugh:

[pchall]

Another team owner decides the crapwagon sandwich he's been served is inedible and walks away. Tony George is screwing up "mergification" as badly as he's screwed up with the IRL and CART's bankruptcy proceedings. Yet some people hold out a futile hope that :tony: will save openwheel. :shakehead

[Don Quixote]

We are talking carpal tunnel syndrome from the check writing that is going to happen in April 08. :tony:

[Insomniac]

No more Bobby D?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Further proof that Champ Car should've continued on with the 2008 season. :gomer:

[Dr. Corkski]

Further proof that Champ Car should've continued on with the 2008 season. :gomer:Why don't you STFU and just celebrate and enjoy more people losing their jobs. It's what people with principles do. :tony:

[robot9000]

Seems to me the CC money faucet was plumbed to more teams than maybe we thought.

[Andrew Longman]

Further proof that Champ Car should've continued on with the 2008 season. :gomer:

You know, :gomer: or no, if TG really cared about putting the sport in the best most healthy standing possible (i.e., doing the merger right), he and TG would have at announced now that the merger would take place in 09 with a rational schedule and an agreement to spend 08 settling on a spec for the car (Dallara, Panoz, something else).

That would have meant he would have to make it worth KK/GF while to continue to fund the series, but in return he would have actually got something of value.

He's done this on the cheap and in return he got little more that a few teams and a series not that more interesting or valuable than he has now. How he and the fans will have to wait until 09 or more likely 10 to recreate what he let fall apart this year.

But he's in charge. Priceless.

[extramundane]

Burn, baby, burn :rofl:

[Ruben Barrios]

Oh but this is not about TG... CCWS crashed and burned... TG saw the kill and went for it...

Either way, I sense something big is brewing behind ucrtains...

[mueber]

Oh but this is not about TG... CCWS crashed and burned... TG saw the kill and went for it...

Either way, I sense something big is brewing behind ucrtains...

Nothing is happening behind the curtains. Not a great deal is happening in front of the curtains either. If Boy George screws this up, it's over, for everyone, forever.

[SteveH]

Nothing is happening behind the curtains. Not a great deal is happening in front of the curtains either. When Boy George screws this up, it's over, for everyone, forever.

fixed it

Its not like the death of CC made TG a Mensa candidate. Its the same TG that's been at the top of the IRL since day 1. Why should it suddenly become less screwed than it already is?

[patski]

Good for PaulS. He gets it.

[Andrew Longman]

fixed it

Its not like the death of CC made TG a Mensa candidate. Its the same TG that's been at the top of the IRL since day 1. Why should it suddenly become less screwed than it already is?

Because (hopefully) now that the Yurtel the Turtle King is on top of the pile he feels magnanomous enough to accept the advice and recommendations of those that have a clue rather than his gomer boy yes men.

Not likely though:tony:

[dando]

This is just so :laugh: watching this 'coalition' fall apart. FTG is going to be stuck with the likes of Milkers and Team DNF to fill the field for the Indy '33 is just a number' 500. Priceless. :tony:

-Kevin

[Ruben Barrios]

Apparently Stoddard is out but Wiggins is still in...

[Insomniac]

You know, :gomer: or no, if TG really cared about putting the sport in the best most healthy standing possible (i.e., doing the merger right), he and TG would have at announced now that the merger would take place in 09 with a rational schedule and an agreement to spend 08 settling on a spec for the car (Dallara, Panoz, something else).

That would have meant he would have to make it worth KK/GF while to continue to fund the series, but in return he would have actually got something of value.

He's done this on the cheap and in return he got little more that a few teams and a series not that more interesting or valuable than he has now. How he and the fans will have to wait until 09 or more likely 10 to recreate what he let fall apart this year.

But he's in charge. Priceless.

You left out that it also eliminated their primary marketplace (OWR) competitor in North America.

[shaggy_socal]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65634

They just don't know what 3 wide at 220mph means I guess.

Stoddard knows that being at the back of the pack in the IRL is just a tad more dangerous than CC or F1.

[Fio1]

Not surprising. You can thank KK, again, for this one. Really sad...

[Andrew Longman]

You left out that it also eliminated their primary marketplace (OWR) competitor in North America.

Competitor for what?

Did CCs existance drive down sanction fees, TV right, sponsor value, etc. for the IRL? How many fans skipped IRL races so they could see a CC race and now will make the drive to Nashville?

I think not. It sucked all on its own.

[Racing Truth]

Apparently Stoddard is out but Wiggins is still in...

Confirmed. WARNING: IndyCar.com link (http://www.indycar.com/news/story.php?story_id=10669&utm_source=indycar&utm_medium=story&utm_content=10669&utm_campaign=speedRead)

Scuttlebutt is some Venezuelan kid I've never heard of.

EDIT: Front page says 2-car team.

EDIT2: But RM says ONE CAR.

[Insomniac]

Competitor for what?

Did CCs existance drive down sanction fees, TV right, sponsor value, etc. for the IRL? How many fans skipped IRL races so they could see a CC race and now will make the drive to Nashville?

I think not. It sucked all on its own.

Sure it sucked on its own to most of us here. But the world is a lot more than us on internet forums. We all know having two series destroyed U.S. open wheel racing. So instead of one side or the other getting a share of the millions of fans, they lost them to other things. If CART/CC was so much more superior, why did they keep losing fans? Now one series can have everything in one place. Will it matter at this point? I don't know, but that's one less problem for the IRL. They weren't going to get any better/bigger with CC around (they still may not).

Also consider, how this has all ended, even though we got to enjoy CC for 4 more seasons after bankruptcy, would it have been better for USOW racing if they just gave everything to TG in 2003? Don't get me wrong, I really wished CC would've prospered and made it. I don't care for the crapwagons or their racing, but the same mess could've been made in 2003 (that is being made now), but there were more sponsors, manufacturers and ratings at the time.

[Chiphead_Dave]

We all know having two series destroyed U.S. open wheel racing.

Wrong FTG destroyed USOW. The split series was simply a symptom of the illness.

[nrc]

Sure it sucked on its own to most of us here. But the world is a lot more than us on internet forums. We all know having two series destroyed U.S. open wheel racing. So instead of one side or the other getting a share of the millions of fans, they lost them to other things. If CART/CC was so much more superior, why did they keep losing fans?
It wasn't fan support or the product on the track that decided this. It was manufacturer politics and the lying bastards we call team owners. Fans continued to support CART strongly until so many became disinterested or disillusioned after the loss of teams and manufacturers.

Those who want to try to put lipstick on this pig need to remember that as they're watching Honda prop up a formula they swore they'd never participate in.

[cart7]

..

Also consider, how this has all ended, even though we got to enjoy CC for 4 more seasons after bankruptcy, would it have been better for USOW racing if they just gave everything to TG in 2003? Don't get me wrong, I really wished CC would've prospered and made it. I don't care for the crapwagons or their racing, but the same mess could've been made in 2003 (that is being made now), but there were more sponsors, manufacturers and ratings at the time.

Depends.

KK and company could've turned the whole thing around. It wasn't very likely but they certainly put the foundation in place to make it happen. Where would we be now had that happened?

As for the bankruptcy. TG had the opportunity back in '04 to bring the correct checkbook to that hearing. He didn't. He wanted it handed to him as usual. Instead of bringing the usual pagoda yes men along, he should've spent some money on real lawyers familiar with what was going on. A good legal team could've steered him through that with a positive end result. As it is, what it would've cost him in '04 to buy the series outright along with making sure the venues were run has probably now cost him 3-4 times that amount.

Not a particularly bright guy.

[Insomniac]

Wrong FTG destroyed USOW. The split series was simply a symptom of the illness.

If you want to pin it on one person, that is fine. But that one person is the reason there were two series.

EDIT: I'm not disputing TG made this mess.

[Insomniac]

It wasn't fan support or the product on the track that decided this. It was manufacturer politics and the lying bastards we call team owners. Fans continued to support CART strongly until so many became disinterested or disillusioned after the loss of teams and manufacturers.

Those who want to try to put lipstick on this pig need to remember that as they're watching Honda prop up a formula they swore they'd never participate in.

If you mean decided who "won" the split, I agree. But, the two series, poor management, loss of sponsor/manufacturer support drove the fans away. I doubt that would've happened if CART wasn't kicked out of Indy with the creation of the IRL.

[Insomniac]

Depends.

KK and company could've turned the whole thing around. It wasn't very likely but they certainly put the foundation in place to make it happen. Where would we be now had that happened?

As for the bankruptcy. TG had the opportunity back in '04 to bring the correct checkbook to that hearing. He didn't. He wanted it handed to him as usual. Instead of bringing the usual pagoda yes men along, he should've spent some money on real lawyers familiar with what was going on. A good legal team could've steered him through that with a positive end result. As it is, what it would've cost him in '04 to buy the series outright along with making sure the venues were run has probably now cost him 3-4 times that amount.

Not a particularly bright guy.

I agree with everything you say. My supposition obviously has tons of hindsight. In the end, TG got what he wanted 4 years later. He didn't have to convince a judge, just KK and GF.

[SurfaceUnits]

What BIf said:


SURfaceUNIts you is close its mower liek this

HAPpy BIRthday you CARt strret race loosers. YOU shoud have let CARt die so that AMEricn open wheel coud strive and prospers under TOney GORge. BEacuase you got some guldarned downunder flimflam goofball with a bad berd and more money than cents payin for everthing AMERcian open wheel will never be what it coudl be. THAts waht TOney GOrge shoud be doin. CAN you imagine what it woud be like today if it was all under TONey GORge? HUh? CAn you? BOggels the mined.

SEe its all your faults. BUT just wate. THis is our year. We got DANicle and some VEnzuwhalen chick with a set of bra buddies that ought to propel her to the podium. hahahahahha I sure woud like to see her get hosed down with a bottel of champain if you know hwat I meen. hahahahahahahaha

BIf#

THE IRl - weer more than just a couple a gimmicks.

[Andrew Longman]

If CART/CC was so much more superior, why did they keep losing fans?

That's my point. Buying out a "competitor" that is losing customers (and not even to you) doesn't have much benefit.

One series is probably is a necessary condition for turn around of the sport, but it is so far from sufficient it hardly matters anymore. This should have been done years ago or at least with a whole lot more thought in how to do it well.

[Insomniac]

That's my point. Buying out a "competitor" that is losing customers (and not even to you) doesn't have much benefit.

One series is probably is a necessary condition for turn around of the sport, but it is so far from sufficient it hardly matters anymore. This should have been done years ago or at least with a whole lot more thought in how to do it well.

But having that competitor around wasn't helping. It was better for either side for the other to be gone.

I fully agree the time for this was long ago and this should've been done better. But everyone involved is so dysfunctional this was the only way it could happen. Like just ripping the band-aid off.

[audi quattro]

But having that competitor around wasn't helping. It was better for either side for the other to be gone.

I fully agree the time for this was long ago and this should've been done better. But everyone involved is so dysfunctional this was the only way it could happen. Like just ripping the band-aid off.

All being said, the person ripping the bandaid is still as inept as ever.

[JLMannin]

If you mean decided who "won" the split, I agree. But, the two series, poor management, loss of sponsor/manufacturer support drove the fans away. I doubt that would've happened if CART wasn't kicked out of Indy with the creation of the IRL.

Good point. It all comes back to 25-8.