furnace/water heater time

[cameraman]

Okay, it is time. The hot water heater is older than half of the posters on this board and the furnace is junk. The current system was put in by some fool who flipped the house in 1971:irked:. It's abject garbage, fully 1/2 of the house has no heat at all. The structure was built in 1887 and was heated by several coal stoves, subsequent "heating" systems have been kluges or worse. The house is a two story victorian made out of sandstone and adobe brick. Its construction bears no resemblance to any known building code or common sense for that matter. The house was obviously built without any ductwork (nor plumbing either) and there really is no way to move air from the first floor to the second other than a warm draft going up the stairs. That would be the current distribution system:saywhat:.

What I want to do is put a furnace/ac unit in the attic and another one in the basement. Natural gas + ac.

Any ideas on what company makes very good hvac gear that could do the job? I've been looking at Rheem but I'd happily take suggestions.

I want very good stuff, I've been slowly rebuilding this reformed rat trap and I'm trying to return it to the extremely nice house it was in 1900. (which was the last time anyone did anything to the building that wasn't lowest bid garbage installed by knuckle-dragging hill apes all of whom need to be burning in one of the nastier rings of hell for their crimes committed against this building)

[oddlycalm]

Did the same as you are doing and here's what I'd do different this time. Instead of letting the mechanical contractor stick it to me I found a good independent HVAC guy and I'm shopping the scratch & dent units. There are two outlets here; an independant store and Sears has their own scratch and dent outlet. Prices are 1/3 of retail and the units carry a new warranty. Mechanically perfect but cosmetically not. If your guy is knowledgable he will be able to advise you.

On the water heater I got a big 60 gallon stone lined unit 15yrs ago with a lifetime guarantee and I'd get another in a heartbeat. Tankless is also great if you don't mind paying a lot initially.

oc

[mapguy]

The hot water heater

AARRGHH!



It's a water heater or a hot water tank. You don't heat hot water!



Trane, Carrier or Lennox. Accept no substitutes.

Also sounds like you have a problem with your duct work. I'd definately have that looked at too.

As for the water heater ;) I would seriously go for a tankless. They are about a grand. BUT you get a (last time I checked) $300 tax rebate from the feds and they are warrantied to last for 25 years. (Bosch anyway). Plus you don't waste any energy keeping water hot when you don't need it. Estimate about 30-40% savings from the tankless water heater. Bonus is that you never run out of hot water.

[KLang]

We've got tankless with our new house. They seem to work fine. Be aware, we were told we had to have a water softener to go with the tankless.

[extramundane]

Tankless is also great if you don't mind paying a lot initially.

:thumbup: The in-laws did that a couple years ago and after seeing the results, I'm almost ready to help my tank reach the end of its life a little quicker.

[SAdair]

My mom put a new furnance/AC system in her house a few years ago. She did a lot of research and came up with only one option... TRANE. I'll be putting one in my house in a 5 years or so and will definately go with a Trane system.

You will probably find your energy cost will drop once you put the new system in.

[cameraman]

The ductwork is going to be sold as scrap.

Tankless hot water heater are a little iffy around here as we have some of the hardest water in the nation. A water softener is an absolute requirement for a tankless system here. I'm not sure that I am interested in buying salt and installing a drain for the softener system would be expensive, bordering on impossible. Draining the current water heater will require a pump:irked: and I don't think that my furnace options will be greatly limited by the lack of a drain... uh oh no drain means no ac. **** **** **** ****...........:flame:

[dando]

Time to move? ;) Trane is the best around these parts. I've had Lennox previously, and it required service too soon. Our Trane units have been bullet proof other than a lightning hit (near miss) that took our one of out AC uints, as well as the microwave. Somehow the washer and dryer (on the same side of the house) managed to survive. Go figger.

-Kevin

[Sean Malone]

Time to move? ;) Trane is the best around these parts. I've had Lennox previously, and it required service too soon. Our Trane units have been bullet proof other than a lightning hit that took our one of our AC uints, as well as the microwave. Somehow the washer and dryer (on the same side of the house) managed to survive. Go figger.

-Kevin

Trane is part of American Standard. We put an American Standard ac unit in our house in VA. Supposedly the AS and Trane units are built in the same factory to the same spec, but the AS are much less expensive. The installer is the only source of this info though and sometimes the install guys propagate rumor. But it worked fine.

[mapguy]

[QUOTE=cameraman;226503]A water softener is an absolute requirement for a tankless system here. I'm not sure that I am interested in buying salt and installing a drain for the softener system would be expensive, bordering on impossible. [\QUOTE]

Water Softeners are about $400-500. If your water is that hard then definately get one regardless. Hard water kills the elements on a dishwasher and will give your glasses and dishes a 'sandblasted' look over time.

[High Sided]

rheem and ruud are one in the same,
i went with ruud when swapping out the heat/ac last fall. get bids from several so you can work the best deal with who you go with. i'd suggest an established independent company. compare btu's, seers, efficiency ratings.

trane as stated is another good brand


just saw your no drain problem but you mentioned the solution, a pump. i had one installed with new system to get the hose off the basement floor since drain isn't near unit

[oddlycalm]

Finally had a minute to find a link to the Vaughn stone lined water heaters. We had ours 15yrs without any issues at all. The stone lining and inconel elements will resist your hard water much better than a mainstream water heater.

http://www.vaughncorp.com/html/electric.html

oc

[cameraman]

http://www.vaughncorp.com/html/electric.html

oc

I thought about that but I believe natural gas is much less expensive in Salt Lake.
I pay $0.087485 per kwh including all taxes & fees (winter rate)
and $8.34725 per decatherm including all taxes + a $5 flat fee.
aka $0.0000087485 per lowly btu

So given your average water heater, which would cost less to run?

Off a googling I go...

[Ankf00]

yay nerd threads, offcamber is all kinds of win

[TravelGal]

Don't know if this is incredibly goofy to suggest but have you ever contacted the National Trust for Historic Preservation? Or ANY of the preservation organizations? They must have advised on the lack of ducting, etc., situation many times in the past.

BTW, funniest first post I've read in ages, Cameraman. Too bad it's so true.