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View Full Version : Scott Elkins' on the safety of DP01's on Ovals



pitwall3
03-25-08, 04:23 PM
Good read on the safety of DP01s on oval configurations.


Elkins' original letter just can be found below:

"Dear AutoRacing1.com, As you well know, I rarely speak about rumors and whatnot, but today's posting by D.B. Cooper requires a bit of a reply, and since I only have 39 days as a Champ Car World Series (CCWS) employee left, I thought "what the hell."

I cannot fathom where the urban legend that the DP01 is not a viable oval chassis began? The fact is both the DP01 and the 016 Atlantic chassis incorporated the most recent safety features that all modern monocoque chassis require. There is no "oval spec" vs. "road course spec" in regards to the crash test specifications. It simply does not exist. All modern monocoques are built to the same standard, and that standard is typically the FIA crash testing specifications for F1 and F3. To give complete disclosure, the DP01 was built and crash tested to a combination of IRL, F1, and existing Champ Car test specifications, in order to obtain the safest car relative to the most current established regulations. There are differing opinions as to whether a low or high nose configuration is better or worse for running over crash debris on ovals, but these are only opinions and no data supports either configuration. So anyone that states that the safety levels of the DP01 or the 016 are not suitable for ovals, is making a very uneducated statement.

It is true that the aerodynamic configurations that both the DP01 and 016 currently use, may not be suited for ovals, but only from the standpoint that the cars have too much drag to have the "close" racing and high speeds that is typically expected when racing on an oval. A few changes to items such as the wings and underbodies, would make both cars very competitive in an oval racing environment.

Furthermore, the crash test specifications for the DP01 and 016 were determined by myself, Steve Sewell (Atlantic Technical Director) and the respective engineers at the chassis manufacturers. They were not in any way determined by any of the owners of CCWS.

Please forgive my rant, but the staff at CCWS worked very hard to create these cars to be the safest possible, regardless of the circuit, and I felt that the record needed to be set straight. Sincerely, Scot Elkins, Technical Director, Operations"


Quote Jimmy Vasser Interview:
JIMMY VASSER (34:30):The Champ Cars are a fantastic machine, and it's going to be sad to see them sidelined - the DPO1 and turbo Cosworth. I think it's going to be a little bittersweet. But I think everybody's working hard to make it a celebration race and I'm looking forward to it. But, again, I think it's going to be a little sad to hear the turbos shut down for the last time and to see the DPO1 parked, because quite honestly it is a racing machine. It runs circles around the Dallara.

ferrarigod
03-25-08, 09:51 PM
guess if you say a lie long enough some people will believe it's true. thanks to Scott for cluing in the gomers and alaskans.

Andrew Longman
03-26-08, 05:35 AM
But, but, but, but. but...

KLang
03-26-08, 06:49 AM
I cannot fathom where the urban legend that the DP01 is not a viable oval chassis began?

Gomerville is the answer Scott, via a speedway shill and a snowshoe salesman. :shakehead

audi quattro
03-26-08, 11:43 AM
They should have just let the champcar teams race in their equipment along side the crapwagons.
Clean their asses.
Now that would have been a series worth watching.
Some rich bastard should have a face off demonstration between these two cars and see once and for all which would win a race.

dando
03-26-08, 11:45 AM
I myself think the rumor about DP01 not being oval worthy was born from ignorance and assumption since they bailed on The Mile and never ran an oval race with the new tubs. It would have been silly to have created a new spec that wasn't oval worthy. Not that the inamtes running the CCWS asylum aren't capable of such idiocy. :irked:

Mebbe there is hope for '10....

-Kevin

Sean O'Gorman
03-26-08, 11:51 AM
Some rich bastard should have a face off demonstration between these two cars and see once and for all which would win a race.

I'm pretty sure the answer is clear, the IRL car was never intended to be faster than the Champ Car. WGAF?

shaggy_socal
03-26-08, 01:23 PM
I myself think the rumor about DP01 not being oval worthy was born from ignorance and assumption since they bailed on The Mile and never ran an oval race with the new tubs. It would have been silly to have created a new spec that wasn't oval worthy. Not that the inamtes running the CCWS asylum aren't capable of such idiocy. :irked:

IIRC, didn't TG and BB visit Panoz and got a closer look at the DP01 before the start of the 2007 season?


Mebbe there is hope for '10....

There's always hope, but the braintrusts running AOWR haven't had the best track record at doing things that make sense.

oddlycalm
03-26-08, 02:13 PM
That's exactly what he said when he was here for the fan round table discussion. The entire oval thing was a red herring promoted by platehead lemmings without any concept of the engineering involved.

On the other hand, we've also gotten the inside story from Ed about what a bucket job Panoz made of the process. They didn't build proper tooling so the parts were all over the map. It was built to a price and that showed in the end. The turbo Cosworth I will miss, the DP01 not so much.

oc

Elmo T
03-26-08, 02:22 PM
...but only from the standpoint that the cars have too much drag to have the "close" racing and high speeds that is typically expected when racing on an oval.




Expected by whom?

cameraman
03-26-08, 02:27 PM
Expected by whom?

IRL fans:shakehead

Andrew Longman
03-26-08, 02:34 PM
The entire oval thing was a red herring promoted by platehead lemmings without any concept of the engineering involved.

I recall all the gomer postings about how CC hadn't done oval crash testing. What would that be? Putting a crash test dummy in it and slamming it into a wall by remote control? Must be different testing for ovals versus road courses. Idiots.

Different wing packages and tunnel/undertray pieces are all that's needed.

As for Ed comments on quality I also think building to a critical schedule had as much to do with it as cost. I think there wasn't time to optimize the tooling which in the end would have saved them money.

G.
03-26-08, 02:37 PM
As for Ed comments on quality I also think building to a critical schedule had as much to do with it as cost. I think there wasn't time to optimize the tooling which in the end would have saved them money.Would've saved them $$ if they needed to build a bunch more cars over the next few years.

I guess maybe they did the right thing.

Chaos
03-26-08, 03:03 PM
I never really grew attached to the DP01.

Now the Reynards and Lolas of the late 90s (heck, even the Swift chassis were nice)

Insomniac
03-26-08, 03:47 PM
I recall all the gomer postings about how CC hadn't done oval crash testing. What would that be? Putting a crash test dummy in it and slamming it into a wall by remote control? Must be different testing for ovals versus road courses. Idiots.

Different wing packages and tunnel/undertray pieces are all that's needed.

As for Ed comments on quality I also think building to a critical schedule had as much to do with it as cost. I think there wasn't time to optimize the tooling which in the end would have saved them money.

You don't think they should take it out onto an oval track?

rabbit
03-26-08, 03:49 PM
I never really grew attached to the DP01.

Now the Reynards and Lolas of the late 90s (heck, even the Swift chassis were nice)

Don't forget the Eagle. :thumbup:
http://www.theautochannel.com/callahan/99laguna/gordon_robby01.jpg

Chaos
03-26-08, 04:22 PM
Don't forget the Eagle. :thumbup:
http://www.theautochannel.com/callahan/99laguna/gordon_robby01.jpg

that's a reynard, with the eagle paint scheme :)

extramundane
03-26-08, 04:29 PM
that's a reynard, with the eagle paint scheme :)

Gordon did use an Eagle for a few races that year, and a Swift for the rest, IIRC.

shaggy_socal
03-26-08, 04:39 PM
Gordon did use an Eagle for a few races that year, and a Swift for the rest, IIRC.

The most remarkable thing about Gordon's team that year is he ran the Reynard, Swift and Eagle chassis that year and finished the season one point behind Scott Pruitt who was the highest placing Toyota driver in 99.

I wonder how well he would've done had he stuck with one chassis for the entire season.

rabbit
03-26-08, 04:56 PM
that's a reynard, with the eagle paint scheme :)

No it's not. :)

Ed_Severson
03-26-08, 04:59 PM
that's a reynard, with the eagle paint scheme :)

Actually, it's not. That is indeed the Eagle chassis, which Gordon ran at Laguna (and that's where the photo is from ... I can tell by the pixels :gomer: ).

According to the Results archives at Champ Car's website, Robby ran the Swift for 13 races and the Eagle for the other 7, but I'm pretty sure I remember him running a Reynard at least once. :\

Also, more on topic, good on Scot for dispelling the ******** about oval worthiness. Sadly we'll never find out how good or bad an oval racing car the DP01 would have been, but there's no doubt that it was capable.

Ruben Barrios
03-26-08, 05:51 PM
I miss the days of different chasis, different engines, different tire compounds...

That to me sealed it, when CCWS went to single chasis it was the last domino...

I hope the people at IRL understand this and move to more diversity on 2009...

shaggy_socal
03-26-08, 06:41 PM
I miss the days of different chasis, different engines, different tire compounds...

That to me sealed it, when CCWS went to single chasis it was the last domino...

I hope the people at IRL understand this and move to more diversity on 2009...

More chassis + more engines + more tires = more $$$$.
That's fine as long as the manufacturers and sponsors are willing to foot the bills.

When they don't....well we know how that story goes.

Andrew Longman
03-26-08, 06:48 PM
You don't think they should take it out onto an oval track?

Of course they can/could/should run it on ovals. You just wouldn't exactly go crash one on an oval on purpose to see how safe it was. That's done through predictive and destructive component testing along FIA, et al standards.

Of course any actual crash, oval or otherwise, should be looked at for areas of possible improvement

Chaos
03-26-08, 08:40 PM
i stand corrected :)

can you believe it will be almost 10 years soon?

robot9000
03-26-08, 08:45 PM
Hopfully, with Cotman over in the IRL, their next car will be more like the DP01. I believe he was the driving force for that particular design, so...

Now, on to technology that Mankind apparently does not yet posses - how about those On Board Starters.....:D

Insomniac
03-26-08, 10:19 PM
Of course they can/could/should run it on ovals. You just wouldn't exactly go crash one on an oval on purpose to see how safe it was. That's done through predictive and destructive component testing along FIA, et al standards.

Of course any actual crash, oval or otherwise, should be looked at for areas of possible improvement

OK, just checking. :)