Champcar Drivers hand the IRL Drivers their Asses on the road course!!! [Archive]

Sean O'Gorman

04-06-08, 05:22 PM

Uh, last I checked, they are all IRL drivers. The rivalry is over.

Its funny, its a street race, won by Graham Rahal, with laps led by Justin Wilson as well. If this was a year ago, you guys would've loved it.

mapguy

04-06-08, 05:31 PM

devilmaster

04-06-08, 05:32 PM

If this was a year ago, you guys would've loved it.

Its blanket statements like ^ that, which proves what an utter tool you really are.

So enlighten me, oh master cone cruncher, who are 'you guys'? Because i've read many a varied opinion on the merger here. How are 'we' all lumped together in your simple little mind? :shakeshead

Sean O'Gorman

04-06-08, 05:49 PM

indyfan31

04-06-08, 06:19 PM

I think the fact that a 19-year-old came in a beat the regulars, at a track they're familiar with, in a car they've been driving for 5 years says alot about how "easy" those cars are to drive.

Stu

04-06-08, 06:22 PM

This coming from someone who thinks Grand-Am is the shiznit....

:shakehead

maybe "you guys" should consider addressing the issue and not just attack the poster.

Racing Truth

04-06-08, 06:26 PM

I think the fact that a 19-year-old came in a beat the regulars, at a track they're familiar with, in a car they've been driving for 5 years says alot about how "easy" those cars are to drive.

That, ORRRRRRRR we could consider that the CC guys are farrrrr more comfortable on r/s courses than ovals, rain was involved, and, oh yeah, it's friggin NHL!

But by all means, keep telling yourself that was easy.:rolleyes:

trish

04-06-08, 06:27 PM

I couldn't do it. Loved the race.

RaceGrrl

04-06-08, 06:30 PM

You guys meaning those of you who are going to or who already have posted things today bashing parts about the IRL that are no different than what Champ Car was.

Go ahead, respond with your typical "as a purist of sitting in front of a TV and watching cars go around a course, I know that the slightly larger sidepods, and the 1 second a lap difference between the two cars clearly makes the IRL a farce and easy enough that anyone but autocrossers could drive one" garbage, because I don't care. If your opinions really mattered, there'd still be a Champ Car today.

Our opinions matter to us, and we've already covered this. OffCamber is still a ChampCar site. People are free to bash Tony George and his league. If they want to, people are free to gloat over the former Champ Car drivers winning against IRL drivers without regard to what ChampCar once was.

So quit yer whining.

Sean O'Gorman

04-06-08, 06:40 PM

I didn't say you had to like it. I was flipping through that, NASCAR, the Indians and the F1 race, and IRL was only mildly entertaining. I'm trying to give it a shot but right now its not that interesting.

I'm just saying that many people here are bashing IRL over some of the same things they enjoyed during the Champ Car days. The difference between the series barely exists outside of web forums.

Audi_A4

04-06-08, 06:58 PM

Its awesome that there is one series again!

TKGAngel

04-06-08, 07:04 PM

The difference between the series barely exists outside of web forums.

You could say the same thing about Grand-Am and ALMS. A sportscar's a sportscar to the average person.

Did anyone else wonder why Danica wasn't given the blue flag when Justin was chasing her for about five laps or so?

I took a nap in the middle of the race, but it looks like Will Power might not be as comfortable in the IRL car as he was in a Champ Car. He looked a little hesitant on a couple of the re-starts.

Andrew Longman

04-06-08, 07:08 PM

Kids. Knock it off.

The CC legacy teams showed they are not wankers. Even the new drivers on former CC teams showed stout. The legacy CART teams and drivers showed they have talent. No surprise. The IRL wankers still prove to be wankers. No surprise either.

All of they usual suspects here at OC are smart enough to have expected this. It is only the hardcore gomeristas that should be eating their young.

nrc

04-06-08, 07:11 PM

I'm just saying that many people here are bashing IRL over some of the same things they enjoyed during the Champ Car days. The difference between the series barely exists outside of web forums.

That has nothing to do with this topic and it's not even accurate. If you don't have something to say about the topic rather than about the poster(s) then just keep it to yourself.

trish

04-06-08, 09:01 PM

Graham will be on Wind Tunnel in a few.

Fio1

04-06-08, 09:59 PM

Is Bobby Rahal still a team owner in that series? Why is he hanging around Newman-Haas if he is a rival team owner. :shakehead

trish

04-06-08, 10:02 PM

Because his son is on the rival team. That's a parent for ya.

Insomniac

04-06-08, 10:19 PM

All of they usual suspects here at OC are smart enough to have expected this. It is only the hardcore gomeristas that should be eating their young.

I didn't watch, but I never expected a former CC team to win a race without extraordinary circumstances. I figured them to be behind the top 3 teams from last year for most, if not all of the season. From what I read here, the former CC teams did quite well all weekend.

Dirk Diggler

04-06-08, 10:30 PM

I just read the results on Autosport. I'm slightly surprised that the CC teams got up to speed as quickly as they did, but that's about the limit of my interest level. Whenever the next IRL race is, I'll probably be following it in the same way - seeing the headline in the side bar as I'm reading a story about a series that I'm actually interested in.

grungex

04-06-08, 11:25 PM

Did anyone else wonder why Danica wasn't given the blue flag when Justin was chasing her for about five laps or so?

Nope. I also didn't wonder why they threw a debris caution just as he was poised to pass her. Unbelievable. :shakehead

I am rather amused that it was an extremely shortened timed race. The circle is complete.

TravelGal

04-07-08, 02:00 AM

I am rather amused that it was an extremely shortened timed race. The circle is complete.

Bingo. I saw about 5 minutes (when they said they were starting the clock on the 2 hour timed race and when they showed the NEW paddle shifters) and the last lap. We died for this? Oh well, moving on........

JLMannin

04-07-08, 07:47 AM

Bingo. I saw about 5 minutes (when they said they were starting the clock on the 2 hour timed race and when they showed the NEW paddle shifters) and the last lap. We died for this? Oh well, moving on........

If the announcers had not said the green flag was thrown at lap 9 or 10, I would not have known - seriously.

I watched the race - it was a moving and captivating as Champcar was last season. It's going to take at least ten years to gat back to the 2002 level, and likely at least another 10 years to get back to the 1995 level of interest and excitement.

I think I will stick to watching the Speed Report recaps to keep tabs on the IRL.

JT265

04-07-08, 08:02 AM

Its blanket statements like ^ that, which proves what an utter tool you really are.

So enlighten me, oh master cone cruncher, who are 'you guys'? Because i've read many a varied opinion on the merger here. How are 'we' all lumped together in your simple little mind? :shakeshead

Hey Steve! :wave:

The earl STILL sucks. That is all. for now. :)

RusH

04-07-08, 10:06 AM

You`d think that a merger would eliminate the need to call all those drivers "rookies". Must of been an oversite on KK part in the negotiations. :laugh:

extramundane

04-07-08, 10:13 AM

You`d think that a merger would eliminate the need to call all those drivers "rookies". Must of been an oversite on KK part in the negotiations. :laugh:

Too bad TG only acquired "intellectual property" and not "intelligent property" as well.

indyfan31

04-07-08, 10:30 AM

That, ORRRRRRRR we could consider that the CC guys are farrrrr more comfortable on r/s courses than ovals, rain was involved, and, oh yeah, it's friggin NHL!

But by all means, keep telling yourself that was easy.:rolleyes:

I guess you're right. I can see how Rahal and Viso would be more "comfortable" on road courses than Castroneves, Kanan, Wheldon, Patrick, Andretti, Dixon & Manning .... and, oh yeah, it was friggin AGR, Penske & Ganassi. :rolleyes:

dando

04-07-08, 10:57 AM

DP's race notebook.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-st-petersburg-notebook/

-Kevin

04-07-08, 11:25 AM

I didn't watch, but I never expected a former CC team to win a race without extraordinary circumstances. I figured them to be behind the top 3 teams from last year for most, if not all of the season. From what I read here, the former CC teams did quite well all weekend.

^^^
What he said.

That's a pleasant surprise.

Sort of related, I have XM in the car. I listened to the pre-race while heading to the folks house. It was pretty good, many driver, manager, engineer interviews, etc. That was also a pleasant surprise.

Seemed to me that they were using the sound of the TURBOS pretty often, not the NA noise in the pre-race program. Sometimes turbo, sometimes NA.

Can anyone confirm this?

Andrew Longman

04-07-08, 11:34 AM

You`d think that a merger would eliminate the need to call all those drivers "rookies". Must of been an oversite on KK part in the negotiations. :laugh:

Even more interesting is they only call the former CC drivers without oval experience "rookies".

The oval/gomer-centric bias is stunning. But then they also called Mansell a rookie. :rolleyes:

Racing Truth

04-07-08, 01:59 PM

I guess you're right. I can see how Rahal and Viso would be more "comfortable" on road courses than Castroneves, Kanan, Wheldon, Patrick, Andretti, Dixon & Manning .... and, oh yeah, it was friggin AGR, Penske & Ganassi. :rolleyes:

Different disciplines, but given the IRL's ovalcentricity, those guys haven't run on r/s courses as regularly as a Wilson, Rahal, etc, so I'd say its closer than you claim.

And, you know, at the end of the day, at this level, OW formula cars are frankly more similar than some let on. This idea that "ZOMG! A 19-yr. old CCer won. Teh car must be easy!" is :shakehead

Insomniac

04-07-08, 04:18 PM

And, you know, at the end of the day, at this level, OW formula cars are frankly more similar than some let on. This idea that "ZOMG! A 19-yr. old CCer won. Teh car must be easy!" is :shakehead

Similar, yes. But there is a lot of engineering that goes into it and the former CC teams have none of that experience or data.

Brickman

04-08-08, 02:45 AM

Did anyone else wonder why Danica wasn't given the blue flag when Justin was chasing her for about five laps or so?

I hadn't watched it all, so I looked today, laps 29ish, they never showed the flagstand on TV. Your guess is as good as mine.

Nope. I also didn't wonder why they threw a debris caution just as he was poised to pass her. Unbelievable. :shakehead

No that's really really silly... they did show debris. :confused: The TV said were both running the same lap times, I suppose they could have lied, :\ I tried to find driver lap times but the indycar.com is to strange to find anything.

I think Graham did a damn good job, and his interview on Windbag was pretty good. Robin Miller is a happy camper, and IF he is... ;)

NismoZ

04-08-08, 08:48 AM

I'd say even the intro of the TV broadcast was all turbos, too. Sure sounded like it. Go to the tape, disc, whatever. (Maybe a prelude to Honda re-upping soon?:eek:) Pretty disturbing to this fan anyway that "Indy Cars" (Oooo, that hurt) weren't the fastest cars on track last weekend. Gotta pump 'em up!

Insomniac

04-08-08, 09:43 AM

No that's really really silly... they did show debris. :confused: The TV said were both running the same lap times, I suppose they could have lied, :\ I tried to find driver lap times but the indycar.com is to strange to find anything.

Wouldn't their lap times be the same if he had a faster car but could not get past her because of the wet track?

grungex

04-08-08, 09:45 AM

No that's really really silly... they did show debris. :confused: The TV said were both running the same lap times, I suppose they could have lied, :\ I tried to find driver lap times but the indycar.com is to strange to find anything.

Oh please. It was a freakin' burrito wrapper. Justin had been steadily creeping up on her, and would have been poised to make the pass within a lap or two. Later on there was a giant piece of signage in the track, but nobody felt it necessary to call a "debris" caution, because Princess Sparklepony wasn't affected.

04-08-08, 10:16 AM

I'd say even the intro of the TV broadcast was all turbos, too. Sure sounded like it. Go to the tape, disc, whatever. (Maybe a prelude to Honda re-upping soon?:eek:) Pre-race show on XM had turbos too, I think.

Sounds are Intellectual Property too, right?

Dirk Diggler

04-08-08, 11:07 AM

Its awesome that there is one series again!

Yeah, just the way that the guys at trackforum wanted it. Great.:rolleyes:

Brickman

04-08-08, 11:29 AM

Oh please. It was a freakin' burrito wrapper. Justin had been steadily creeping up on her, and would have been poised to make the pass within a lap or two. Later on there was a giant piece of signage in the track, but nobody felt it necessary to call a "debris" caution, because Princess Sparklepony wasn't affected.

Yes I think they should have called a yellow because of the sign hanging down at the side of the track, maybe because the race fell into one of those stupid timed races that they did not, I would have fixed it because I have seen CART races where it ends up getting ripped off.

But they knew that was a sign... and they couldn't tell what the other debris was, but you could clearly see it in the middle of the road. If a tire or two were cut down... then race control would have been very wrong.

Both Justin and the Princess were throwing their cars around pretty good. He was "poised" for a few laps and she wasn't going to give up her lap, she may be a little bitch, but she had every right to fight to stay on the lead lap.

indyfan31

04-08-08, 11:31 AM

Wouldn't their lap times be the same if he had a faster car but could not get past her because of the wet track?
Yes. It was dumb statement on the part of the commentator ... one of many if Goodyear was involved.

Easy

04-08-08, 12:33 PM

Graham's win just proves that those crapwagons are easier to drive than a Reynard CFC (because Graham isn't any good?) and that Helio, Kanaan, Dixon and their teams, Penske, Green and Ganassi are all inept now because they've spent so much time on ovals with chassis that are aesthetically unappealing to a specific subset of ultra-purists.:p

I was in Vegas and didn't see it but I DVR'd an AOWR race for the second time in 3 years. Transitionalunitardation has revived my interest in this segment of motorsport. Also, its nice to read a race report with household names like (drivers and owners) Rahal, Andretti, Foyt, Newman-Haas and Penske and not see something like Sharpie 500 in the title.

grungex

04-08-08, 02:09 PM

Yes I think they should have called a yellow because of the sign hanging down at the side of the track, maybe because the race fell into one of those stupid timed races that they did not, I would have fixed it because I have seen CART races where it ends up getting ripped off.

But they knew that was a sign... and they couldn't tell what the other debris was, but you could clearly see it in the middle of the road. If a tire or two were cut down... then race control would have been very wrong.

Both Justin and the Princess were throwing their cars around pretty good. He was "poised" for a few laps and she wasn't going to give up her lap, she may be a little bitch, but she had every right to fight to stay on the lead lap.

Of course she had the right, but that wasn't going to do her much good, because he was going to pass her. That debris, according to a corner worker that was actually working there, had been there since the previous yellow and subsequent green. It didn't become a safety issue until Princess Permapout was about to get lapped.

Brickman

04-08-08, 02:29 PM

Of course she had the right, but that wasn't going to do her much good, because he was going to pass her. That debris, according to a corner worker that was actually working there, had been there since the previous yellow and subsequent green. It didn't become a safety issue until Princess Permapout was about to get lapped.

And the corner worker didn't take care of it? Shame on him .:gomer: :tony:

JohnHKart

04-12-08, 06:55 AM

I think the fact that a 19-year-old came in a beat the regulars, at a track they're familiar with, in a car they've been driving for 5 years says alot about how "easy" those cars are to drive.

Yup and I just read in last month's Motorsport that one of the reasons Gil De Ferran stopped was that he wasn't learning anything in those cars (in addition to the usual not wanting to die/lose limbs reasons)

John

Ruben Barrios

04-13-08, 12:19 PM

I think the fact that a 19-year-old came in a beat the regulars, at a track they're familiar with, in a car they've been driving for 5 years says alot about how "easy" those cars are to drive.
Sure... if you keep repeating it it will become true... As I recall that 19 year old handed PT a his @ss on a platter several times in CCWS too... Oh yeah I forget... traction control....

What ever rocks your boat!

stroker

04-13-08, 01:07 PM

All right, look. I know this is going to be regarding as pissing in everybody's Wheaties, but I don't believe the St. Pete result "honest" in any context. Tony needs everybody on board as quickly as he can do it, and until they start handing out Honda engines randomly, as far as I'm concerned all the CC teams had spinner engines at St. Pete. What everybody here seems to forget is that now that the CC teams are in the .1RL does NOT mean everything's on the up and up. It just means that they're now racing under the same .1RL policies we've been ridiculing for years, whether it's AGR drivers with spinners, "Danica"-beneficial rulings, etc.

It's the .1RL and it's still a joke, even if our teams are in it.

Andrew Longman

04-13-08, 07:17 PM

It's the .1RL and it's still a joke, even if our teams are in it.

That's a fair statement, but to say the CC guys got spinners is a reach. TK got pole. GR won because he drove a well prepared car well but also because weather and cautions played to a lucky fuel strategy.

Experience as drivers and crews on a road course helped a lot. Luck did too. The fact that the cars are not the challenge of a "true" champcar probably did too, but it is harder to quantify.