MD 80 Landing Gear Problem

[Andrew Longman]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/08/griffin.landing.gear/index.html?eref=rss_topstories


Care to speculate?

WHAT HAS THE PROBLEM: AA MD 80 nose gear WHAT COULD HAVE THE PROBLEM BUT DOESN'T: Other gear, gear on other AA planes, other airlines' MD 80

WHAT IS THE PROBLEM: Nose gear won't retract WHAT COULD BE THE PROBLEM BUT ISN'T: Won't deploy

WHERE IS THE PLANE WITH THE PROBLEM: TX, FL, elsewhere WHERE COULD IT BE BUT ISN"T: Just one route

WHEN DID THE PROBLEM START: Within the last year (?) WHEN COULD IT HAVE STARTED BUT DIDN'T: Since 1975 when it first flew as a DC9-80

WHEN SINCE HAS IT HAPPENED: Several times with no known pattern WHEN COULD IT HAVE HAPPENED BUT DID NOT: In some periodic regular pattern.

WHEN IN LIFECYCLE OF THE PLANE DOES THE PROBLEM HAPPEN: Just after take off. Need data on the maintenance cycle, TO/Landing cycle, etc. WHEN IN THE LIFECYCLE COULD IT HAPPEN BUT DIDN'T: Need Data

HOW MANY TIMES HAS THE PROBLEM OCCURED: 23 HOW MANY TIMES COULD IT HAVE OCCURRED: Many more than 23 up to the total flights since the MD 80 first flew in 1975

WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THE PROBLEM: Need data on whether it is a partial or complete inability to reploy.


Somehow reminds me a lot of this http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921880,00.html

It baffled Eastern for months, nearly caused a labor action, caused Eastern to lose customers and gain a lot of bad press for months.

Finally someone thought enough to actually get on a plane and look at the problem. Solution here http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921935,00.html

[ChampcarShark]

I'm as puzzled as you. :confused: :confused:

But it is scary knowing that it can happen to any of the airlines.

[Ankf00]

the time article reads as typical media "tech article" to me, short on facts, big on random assumptions.

It may very well be a pressing issue but I doubt it. The current MD-80 grounding is to meet FAA spec on cable tie spacing on the wiring. 1" exactly, no more no less. Not a huge issue, and certainly not life threatening when the FAA allowed AA 18 months to implement the wiring insulation spec when it was first issued.

[oddlycalm]

The rule of thumb I use is that by the time it gets to Time Magazine whatever it was is over.

oc

[dando]

What routes do they run these on? The missus has to go to DFW next week, and, yes, she's flying AA. :saywhat: She goes from here to ORD to DFW going there, and then DFW to CMH direct on the way back. Trying to tell her to change airlines is like talking to a wall. :irked:

EDIT: nm. I checked on today's flights, and both were canceled today. :(

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

MD-80 is AA's most widely used craft, equivalent to 737 (although AA's planning on phasing them out in the near future I believe). Chances are she's flying on one. There's no real issue w/ the plane per se, but whether or not her filght is cancelled, who knows.

[dando]

but whether or not her filght is cancelled, who knows.

That's my prob....I don't want to be stuck playing Mr. Mom longer than I need to be. :D

-Kevin

[WickerBill]

AA is "my" airline, and I fly the MD80s constantly.

Hate them.

[cameraman]

What part about being in an 11 foot diameter tube with 150 other people don't you like?

[TravelGal]

AA is "my" airline, and I fly the MD80s constantly.

Hate them.

Ditto and ditto. Although not exactly "constantly." I certainly do hate them.

Dando, you might want to have a peak at whether AA is using any other aircraft flying the same route. I've looked for a couple of agent friends of mine and was able to suggest different times that used different aircraft on the same routing.

[WickerBill]

What part about being in an 11 foot diameter tube with 150 other people don't you like?

It really isn't that. Flying about is part of my job, and I can deal with it usually. But a few flights ago, I was on an MD80 to Dallas and a 737 to San Francisco. Same airline, similar size craft, almost a night and day difference in experience. You mean my case will fit in the overhead on either side of the aisle, not just starboard side? How novel! The restroom ceiling is higher than I am tall? What will they think of next!

The MD80 is the crapwagon of large passenger jets.

[nrc]

The MD80 is the crapwagon of large passenger jets.

Basically a derivative of the DC9 which was the first generation crapwagon of large passenger jets.

[Sean Malone]

Basically a derivative of the DC9 which was the first generation crapwagon of large passenger jets.

My worst flights were on old DC9's.

[Ankf00]

MD-80's were alright when AA still had the "extra legroom" thing going, without that, F AA

[Brickman]

Basically a derivative of the DC9 which was the first generation crapwagon of large passenger jets.

I have three round trip flights scheduled on them and AA this year. Go figure. ;)

At least AA now allows you to choose your seat selection, emergency exit row works for me. Pretty safe plane, but she's getting old.

[oddlycalm]

Back when MD had a blank order book AA CEO Bob Crandle was able to get all those MD80's for just a bit more than half what the 737's were going to cost. That spared MD for a few more years and he made a sweet deal for a new fleet. But that was 25yrs ago and those sleds are tired old fuel hawgs today.

In the late 80's/early 90's I was casually acquainted with AA's chief pilot. He liked the MD80 but his pilots hated it according to him. The cockpit layout made high workload periods inside TCA's more difficult. They also take a while to learn to land smoothly. Most pilots new to the type have a tendency to try to plant the main gear 6ft. into the concrete because of how far forward the cockpit is relative the main gear and center of gravity. They are still 20 ft. in the air when the mains touch.

oc

[chop456]

[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921880,00.html[/url]

It baffled Eastern for months, nearly caused a labor action, caused Eastern to lose customers and gain a lot of bad press for months.

Finally someone thought enough to actually get on a plane and look at the problem. Solution here http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921935,00.html

If you ever want a good, relatively short read, check out "Grounded", the story of how Frank Lorenzo killed Eastern Airlines.

Family vacation next month on AA. I'm on an MD-80, the wife and kids get a 757. The only previous MD-80 flight I've had involved sitting next to the engine, the whole time spent thinking about a turbine blade piercing my melon. My beautiful, beatiful melon. :cry: ;)

[WickerBill]

Flight Details:
Traveler: XXXXXXXX
Date: Sunday May 11 2008
American Airlines 1477
Depart: 8:35am Indianapolis IN (IND)
Arrive: 9:50am Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW)
McDonnell Douglas Super MD-80 (S80)


What do you think... will the 80's be back in full service by my next flight on one?


I bet AA could pick up some sweet lease deals on all of the five and six year old 737-800s that ATA just abandoned a couple weeks ago when they went under...

[Ankf00]

Flight Details:
Traveler: XXXXXXXX
Date: Sunday May 11 2008
American Airlines 1477
Depart: 8:35am Indianapolis IN (IND)
Arrive: 9:50am Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW)
McDonnell Douglas Super MD-80 (S80)


What do you think... will the 80's be back in full service by my next flight on one?

a month ahead of time? for sure.

[cameraman]

If not AA will be out of business so it would be kind of moot...

[Insomniac]

Flight Details:
Traveler: XXXXXXXX
Date: Sunday May 11 2008
American Airlines 1477
Depart: 8:35am Indianapolis IN (IND)
Arrive: 9:50am Dallas/Fort Worth TX (DFW)
McDonnell Douglas Super MD-80 (S80)


What do you think... will the 80's be back in full service by my next flight on one?


I bet AA could pick up some sweet lease deals on all of the five and six year old 737-800s that ATA just abandoned a couple weeks ago when they went under...

How long do you think it takes to inspect wiring harnesses? :gomer:

[TravelGal]

Apparently all is well now. Or at least AA received clearance to put everything back in the sky and was running a full schedule by yesterday afternoon. So everyone wot woulda been affected can breathe a sigh of relief.

[cameraman]

Until the next airline notices that they are not current on some other ntsb rule:rolleyes:

[TravelGal]

Until the next airline notices that they are not current on some other ntsb rule:rolleyes:

Completely agree. I think you'll see this sort of stuff go from one airline to the next. I'm hoping it's not Delta's "turn" when my mom is traveling this summer.

[WickerBill]

Completely agree. I think you'll see this sort of stuff go from one airline to the next. I'm hoping it's not Delta's "turn" when my mom is traveling this summer.


Delta has a pretty old fleet... not nearly as bad as Northwest, but still one of the oldest. I think it's Northwest/Delta/American/US Air/United/Continental (oldest first) among the major carriers... with Northwest being far and away the oldest.

[emjaya]

My wife is flying Delta on Friday. :saywhat:

I knew this thread was going to go places I didn't want to go. :eek: :gomer:

[dando]

My wife is flying Delta on Friday. :saywhat:

I knew this thread was going to go places I didn't want to go. :eek: :gomer:

BTW, looks like she my get a break on the weather. Cold snap this weekend, but it looks to be decent through the end of the month. That being said, I'm sure it will snow by 30-April. :gomer:

http://www.accuweather.com/forecast-15day.asp?partner=forecastfox&traveler=1&zipChg=1&zipcode=46201&metric=0

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Apparently all is well now. Or at least AA received clearance to put everything back in the sky and was running a full schedule by yesterday afternoon. So everyone wot woulda been affected can breathe a sigh of relief.


So the wiring harness inspection problem that goes back several years is handled.

Unfortunately, this was just a potential problem. My data says they never actually had a problem with it, they were just worried about it.

As for the landing gear, that's another issue. 23 times the nose gear has jammed and there is still not a clear finding of root cause.

[Ankf00]

Unfortunately, this was just a potential problem. My data says they never actually had a problem with it, they were just worried about it.

there never was a problem, it was the cable tie spacing that was an issue, 1" exact, not 1 1/4, 1 1/2, not 2. 1", FAA originally inspected it during every plane's A check, but instead decided to be totally anal about it overnight. the insulating that the ties are supposed to secure, there to prevent the possibility of current arcing and igniting something, the FAA gave AA 18 months to install all that insulation through its fleet. if it was such a non-priority the first time around, the tie spacing certainly wasn't a stop-work issue.


As for the landing gear, that's another issue. 23 times the nose gear has jammed and there is still not a clear finding of root cause.

there has to be something far more reputable than a Time article with barely any quantifiable information for me to care about that

[Andrew Longman]

there has to be something far more reputable than a Time article with barely any quantifiable information for me to care about that

Go back to post #1

The Time article is from the 80s and concerns a problem with "Red Sweat" that baffled Eastern for months while they blamed everyone in sight.

The nose gear issue was reported by CNN last week http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/08/griffin.landing.gear/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[Ankf00]

cnn, time, meh... AP ran a fearmonger story first, then CNN came out with one. Again, need something more quantifiable in the article beyond a single semi-detailed incident. If there was a legitimate, unresolved issue at hand, everyone would be jumping on the story and there'd be no shortage of relevant details published

[WickerBill]

Delta: "Our fleet just wasn't old enough"

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24116154/)

[TravelGal]

This ^^^ is about the proposed merger. Wow, another old name down the drain. The first 747 I ever took was from Dulles to Chicago. A short hop for such a big plane. But it was bound for Tokyo. Sayonara Northwest Orient Airlines. Margaret Mead was sitting 4 rows ahead of me in coach!

:(

[cameraman]

There is reason to hope that the merger will be quite the boon for the Salt Lake Airport. Northwest doesn't have a western hub.

[Ankf00]

There is reason to hope that the merger will be quite the boon for the Salt Lake Airport. Northwest doesn't have a western hub.

NWA/Delta @ SLC vs. soon to be UAL/Cont. @ DIA

mergification the two and annex the Wasatch in the process :D

[WickerBill]

Northwest doesn't have a western hub.

*processing*

*processing*

*processing*


Huh. That's weird.

[cameraman]

Minneapolis, Detroit & Memphis. Go figure.

Delta has hubs in Atlanta, Cincinnati, JFK and Salt Lake.

You have to wonder about having three hubs in Detroit, Memphis & Cincinnati.

[Ankf00]

You have to wonder about having three hubs in Detroit, Memphis & Cincinnati.

a line-up of economic juggernauts

[oddlycalm]

You have to wonder about having three hubs in Detroit, Memphis & Cincinnati. A lot of people updating looking for work...

oc

[WickerBill]

Yesterday, flew IND-DFW on the MD80, then DFW-SAN on another MD80.

First one: seats with pretty darn good legroom (I'm 6f5i), headrests that move up for tall people, etc.

Second one: older seats crammed together like you wouldn't believe. It had two more rows than the IND-DFW MD80! I was wedged in in such a way that when the lady in front of me tried to recline, her seat wouldn't budge because of my knees being jammed into the tray, and my femurs refusing to snap. I couldn't lean back because the seat wasn't tall enough to support my head. Freakshow stewardess sniped at me for having my right foot in the aisle.


I hate that plane.

[chop456]

I was on one yesterday and last Friday. First flight was a bulkhead seat. They asked me to move there because they had a passenger with an oxygen tank that can't sit in a bulkhead seat for some reason, so we switched. Not a bad deal. The lady next to me was a white-knuckle flyer and talked the whole time. The good news was that she bought the drinks the whole time, too. :D

Yesterday's plane had good legroom but not enough elbow room. Grandpa squirmypants next to me would bump me every time he moved. Don't think there's any significance to it but the build date of the second plane was 10/85. Dunno what the first one was.

In related news - it never ceases to amaze me how people are completely unable to board an airplane. Get in line at the right time, get on the plane, throw your **** in the bin and sit the **** down, fatty. Oh, and the collapsible carry-on that's the right size when it's empty? It's bigger when it's full and expanded. Idiots. :gomer: