NFL '08

[dando]

The draft is Saturday, so let's get the ball rolling...

Someone please 'splain to me the Bungles:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3358557


Bengals coach Marvin Lewis, who initially denied the team had received offers for Johnson during a Tuesday news conference, confirmed to ESPN that Cincinnati turned down Washington's offer of two picks.

"Once I actually read what was reported, I have to be truthful and say that the story is accurate," Lewis told ESPN. "Unfortunately, I didn't read it until after our press conference."

The Redskins offered their first-round pick, No. 21 overall, and a conditional third-rounder in 2009 that could escalate to a first-rounder if Johnson and the Redskins hit certain performance levels, the sources said.

I'm sorry, but how can the PR cats let the head coach conduct a presser, w/o the last 411? :irked::saywhat: Fugging morons.... :shakehead

-Kevin

[nrc]

I'm sorry, but how can the PR cats let the head coach conduct a presser, w/o the last 411? :irked::saywhat: Fugging morons.... :shakehead

-Kevin


http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6737

Lewis told ESPN's Chris Mortensen after he read the story that it was accurate and that the Bengals turned down the Redskins' first-round pick, No. 21 overall this year, and a conditional third-rounder in 2009 that could escalate to a first rounder if Johnson and the Redskins hit certain performance levels.

Lewis denied the report at first because the question posed to him mistakenly characterized the report as two first-rounders. In fact, Lewis said he told Washington the Bengals wouldn't do that deal. So Lewis knew about the offer. He was splitting hairs. Some people hate that because they expect him to answer what the reporter meant and not what they asked.

Trading Chad before June 1 would cost the Bengals 8 million against the cap which they say is almost impossible to handle.

[dando]

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6737
So Lewis knew about the offer. He was splitting hairs. Some people hate that because they expect him to answer what the reporter meant and not what they asked.

Trading Chad before June 1 would cost the Bengals 8 million against the cap which they say is almost impossible to handle.

Lewis is like Senator Sweater Vest when it comes to answering questions. I need to take that class one of these days. :irked:

Anyway, I've read all about the cap implications. I'd also heard different takes on its impact and whether it is spread out over this season and next. I'd also love to know exactly how close Cincy expects to be to the cap...especially considering that they didn't do a whole lot in FA, and TJ still doesn't have a new deal (nor does Andrews). I find it hard to believe that they'll be up against the cap. Anyway, after CJ threw CP under the bus last week, it's pretty clear that he either needs to go or sit and rot. I'd rather get something for him now, before his value is diminished. This season is already looking like a lost cause as it is. :(

-Kevin

[racermike]

Seahawks released Alexander today, which did not surprise me, but sad to see him go. He was one of, if not THE best Tailbacks the Seahawks have had in their history, and we had a fun ride with him to the Super Bowl in 2005.

Thanks Shaun for such a fun ride !!!!!!!

#37
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4885/shaunalexanderphotograppe1.jpg



(Looks like Julius Jones will be #1 tailback, Maurice Morris at #2, and TJ Duckett at #3. Thinks the Hawks will TRY to get Oregon Ducks tailback Jonathan Stewart in the draft if he is still there)

[IlliniRacer]

Looks like Glenn Dorsey to the Rams. :thumbup:

[Insomniac]

Two observations right now.

Parcells was trying to bring down the rookie salary and his solution was to lower guaranteed money by $2M and the total contract by $3.5M but only sign him for 5 years? Way to take a stand!

It's stupid that the Rams can't start negotiating now.

[Tim]

What is to stop the Dolphins from taking Chris Long? They already have Jake Long under contract.

[dando]

Two observations right now.

Parcells was trying to bring down the rookie salary and his solution was to lower guaranteed money by $2M and the total contract by $3.5M but only sign him for 5 years? Way to take a stand!

It's stupid that the Rams can't start negotiating now.

Until the pick is made, it's not a done deal.

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Until the pick is made, it's not a done deal.

-Kevin

He signed the contract, he got paid and they introduced him. It's a done deal. He can be hit by a bus and the Dolphins can't pick anyone else.

[Andrew Longman]

He signed the contract, he got paid and they introduced him. It's a done deal. He can be hit by a bus and the Dolphins can't pick anyone else.

I'm not sure that's true. The Fish aren't even on the clock yet. The contract may say they have to pay him, and it may even contain clauses that say the contract doesn't take effect until the draft takes place and he is the pick. At least, that's what I would do if I were their lawyer.

Meanwhile, Shockey is making noises that he wants to be traded if he still has to block as much as he has. Good

[dando]

I'm not sure that's true. The Fish aren't even on the clock yet. The contract may say they have to pay him, and it may even contain clauses that say the contract doesn't take effect until the draft takes place and he is the pick. At least, that's what I would do if I were their lawyer.

Meanwhile, Shockey is making noises that he wants to be traded if he still has to block as much as he has. Good

Correct on the pick. They aren't on the clock, so officially the selection has not been made. Technically a trade could still be made among other things. Silly? Yes, but that's the ruling here according to the talking heads.

re: Shockey...here's the 411 from Peter King this week:


Quote of the Week II

"Right now all I can say on Jeremy Shockey is that he is our starting tight end. That is really my stance on it ... Anything can happen in personnel ... We are looking forward for him to be back on the field for us this fall.''

--Giants GM Jerry Reese, hardly putting to rest the reports (and they are more than rumors, if you want the truth) that you can have Shockey if you come at Reese with a good offer. Reese also said last week, "everybody is tradeable,'' when asked if the Giants could afford the cap hit dealing Shockey would bring.

Pack your bags, Jeremy.

Oh, they're already packed?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/04/20/mmqb/3.html

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

I'm not sure that's true. The Fish aren't even on the clock yet. The contract may say they have to pay him, and it may even contain clauses that say the contract doesn't take effect until the draft takes place and he is the pick. At least, that's what I would do if I were their lawyer.

Meanwhile, Shockey is making noises that he wants to be traded if he still has to block as much as he has. Good

And if I was his lawyer it would be a done deal. How could they let the Dolphins get out of it? They can't put a clause in there to get some money if they change their mind (say he gets a DUI tonight) or it would violate the salary cap. They could take the "deal" to another player and get him to take less as well. I can't see how it's not done and there is no way out. Saturday afternoon is just a formality.

[Insomniac]

Correct on the pick. They aren't on the clock, so officially the selection has not been made. Technically a trade could still be made among other things. Silly? Yes, but that's the ruling here according to the talking heads.

Of course they can trade him. You can trade the player or the rights to the player after he is drafted. That does not mean he isn't drafted and signed.

[Andrew Longman]

This could get silly quickly. Especially since none of us schmucks know what's in the contract.

One things is certain I think. The draft is an agreement the team makes with the league. The contract is an agreement the team make with the player. They are not the same but they are very much linked.

Hypothetically I could see the Fish obligated to pay him money even if they don't draft him and not have that money against the cap because they neither drafted him or put him on the roster. They could call it a personal services contract. :gomer: If I was the NFL I would frown on those kinds of deals though.

Anyway, from a practical POV, you are right. It's a done deal

[Insomniac]

My sources (me acting connected ;)) tell me he is signed. Done deal.

[Insomniac]

This could get silly quickly. Especially since none of us schmucks know what's in the contract.

One things is certain I think. The draft is an agreement the team makes with the league. The contract is an agreement the team make with the player. They are not the same but they are very much linked.

Hypothetically I could see the Fish obligated to pay him money even if they don't draft him and not have that money against the cap because they neither drafted him or put him on the roster. They could call it a personal services contract. :gomer: If I was the NFL I would frown on those kinds of deals though.

Anyway, from a practical POV, you are right. It's a done deal

You replied while I was replying. I don't know all those intricacies, but I am told he is drafted and signed by Miami. They have no way out.

Also, I saw this for why the Rams can't do the same now.


“That has been our policy,” Aiello said. “Only the team with the first pick can negotiate and sign the player.”

Aiello also said that, after this year’s draft, the league will re-evaluate the policy.

Also, I saw this on a Patriots mailbag, it has some relevant information.


Mike, with all of the stories circulating this year about how high draft picks are too costly, what are the chances of the Patriots again being on the cutting edge of player acquisition? It's been standard practice for the team with the number one overall pick to try and negotiate a contract with their desired player before the draft - and Bill Parcells is doing it this year. What is to stop the Patriots from doing the same thing with the #7 pick? What's to stop the Patriots from targeting a player that the "experts" think will be drafted in the middle of the first round. The Patriots could conceivably go to that player, and get them to agree to a contract that is less than the #7 pick typically gets, but more than the player would have gotten at his expected draft slot. Is that possible?
Zack, Pembroke

A: In theory, Zack, this would be a stroke of genius for any team concerned with the costs of signing a top-5 or top-10 pick. I think the biggest issue, however, would be that the agent community would not go along with this. One thing to remember is that if an agent signs a below-market deal this year, it will be used against him or her when recruiting clients the next year. So I think the agent aspect of this would also be a major factor to not allowing it to happen. On a related note, which would restrict this from happening, here is the official rule from the NFL regarding draft-pick negotiation outside of the team with the No. 1 pick: Clubs may have discussions with draft-eligible players or their reps prior to the draft about non-financial matters. However, no club (other than one with first choice) may engage in contract negotiations with a draft-eligible player before the draft or in any discussion with such a player or his rep regarding salary or other terms of compensation that a player may expect or anticipate.

It's kind of arbitrary. Probably there because they don't want half the first round done before the draft "starts". Plus Miami gets their guy signed and no holdout while every other team loses that leverage.

[Insomniac]

Pacman to Dallas for a 4th rounder.

[dando]

Pacman to Dallas for a 4th rounder.

TSG salivates.... :gomer: :shakehead

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Pacman to Dallas for a 4th rounder.

Didn't I call that months ago? Now I'll have to dig to find it.

Thankfully I am secure in continuing my hatred of all things Dallas.

[Insomniac]

I guess this shows that there isn't much to keep a guy out of the NFL. Dallas was willing to trade for a guy who is indefinitely suspended. Michael Vick should have no problem if he's in shape.

[Insomniac]

Well, it was pretty dumb to start this at 3.

They are reporting:

1. Dolphins - Jake Long (Signed)
2. Rams - Chris Long
3. Falcons - Matt Ryan
4. Raiders - Darren McFadden

(Picks 2-4 aren't official until they are drafted.)

[dando]

Well, it was pretty dumb to start this at 3.

They are reporting:

1. Dolphins - Jake Long (Signed)
2. Rams - Chris Long
3. Falcons - Matt Ryan
4. Raiders - Darren McFadden

(Picks 2-4 aren't official until they are drafted.)

@ this rate the first round will be done by 3. ;) If these teams let the clock run all the way down, I'm gonna be :mad:.

-Kevin

[dando]

Let's light this candle. :thumbup: :cool:

Dear Santa, Bengals need a good DT (Sedrick Ellis @ #9 puhleeze). :)

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Let's light this candle. :thumbup: :cool:

Dear Santa, Bengals need a good DT (Sedrick Ellis @ #9 puhleeze). :)

-Kevin

Sorry. The Pats wanted to save some nickels and give away a 5th round pick.

[dando]

Sorry. The Pats wanted to save some nickels and give away a 5th round pick.

Very interesting draft so far. No WRs in the 1st round, Henne and Brohm slipping into late round 2, WRs that were selected were quite different from the projections. Titans are the Lions of the south. :laugh: E$PN was definitely scrambling due to the shortened times for picks. Beaucoup trades also made the 1st round quite entertaining. And yes, the Pats suck for the NO trade. :irked: :finger: ;)

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Very interesting draft so far. No WRs in the 1st round, Henne and Brohm slipping into late round 2, WRs that were selected were quite different from the projections. Titans are the Lions of the south. :laugh: E$PN was definitely scrambling due to the shortened times for picks. Beaucoup trades also made the 1st round quite entertaining. And yes, the Pats suck for the NO trade. :irked: :finger: ;)

-Kevin

The shorter time allowed for less talking head babble and over the top analysis. Of course, the mess is back today while they just ignore picks and recap them.

I wish they'd air a show with just Jaws (and maybe another person) saying the pick and then showing/breaking down film on the guy and why he's a fit (or not). on one of the other ESPN channels. See which one the fans prefer.

[dando]

The shorter time allowed for less talking head babble and over the top analysis. Of course, the mess is back today while they just ignore picks and recap them.

I wish they'd air a show with just Jaws (and maybe another person) saying the pick and then showing/breaking down film on the guy and why he's a fit (or not). on one of the other ESPN channels. See which one the fans prefer.

Day 2 is unwatchable. :saywhat: They cherry pick the picks they say anything about, and babble on about anything and everything else. :irked: I peek in every so often to catch updates on who the Who Deys drafted, etc. So far it appears the Bungles have selected a few projects and maybe two impact players (Rivers and Sims). The WR they selected in round 2 has some spectacular highlights, but WRs rarely contribute much in their first season. QB and WR are the most difficult positions to adjust to from college to NFL, IMO.

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

QB and WR are the most difficult positions to adjust to from college to NFL, IMO.

For the Pats, it seems to be LB. They also took the first guy no one expected to be drafted in the 5th round. Well, I say that because there's so little information on him and as far as I can tell, wasn't at the combine either.

[dando]

For the Pats, it seems to be LB. They also took the first guy no one expected to be drafted in the 5th round. Well, I say that because there's so little information on him and as far as I can tell, wasn't at the combine either.

Yeah, not sure about Crable...he's either been great or average when I've seen him play @ UM. He gets the credit for a PF on T.Smith in the '06 #1 vs. #2 version of The Game. The OSU eventually scored the winning TD after that play.

A couple of the E$PN radio guys were questioning the Pats draft around midday after the selected that QB from SDSU. That WR appears to be really short and light on his feet (according to E$PN.com he's 0" and 0 lbs.). ;) Bio on the Pats site:

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=33158

Looks like a return specialist.

I almost felt sorry for Mike Hart. Almost. ;-)

Oh, and the Gmen drafted Manningham from UM...who scored a 6 on the Wunderlich in addition to lying about smoking Pot. :laugh: Wellington Mara did a 360 in his grave. :eek:

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Yeah, not sure about Crable...he's either been great or average when I've seen him play @ UM. He gets the credit for a PF on T.Smith in the '06 #1 vs. #2 version of The Game. The OSU eventually scored the winning TD after that play.

A couple of the E$PN radio guys were questioning the Pats draft around midday after the selected that QB from SDSU. That WR appears to be really short and light on his feet (according to E$PN.com he's 0" and 0 lbs.). ;) Bio on the Pats site:

http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=33158

Looks like a return specialist.

I almost felt sorry for Mike Hart. Almost. ;-)

Oh, and the Gmen drafted Manningham from UM...who scored a 6 on the Wunderlich in addition to lying about smoking Pot. :laugh: Wellington Mara did a 360 in his grave. :eek:

-Kevin

I have no idea on any of them. It really seems like hit or miss for the most part. Add to it that a guy can suck in one place ansd be so much better in another and who knows.

People ripped the Pats for taking Logan Mankins at the end of the 1st in 2005 because it was a big reach. Now 3 years later they praise them for getting a guy who should've been taken in the top half of round 1. :saywhat:

I'll see if any of these DBs or LBs can get on the field. The Pats need help and youth badly. Not sure what to think on the QB. They had a guy they liked last year (Gutierez) that they didn't want to take a chance of losing so they kept him on the roster. This is Cassel's last year. My first thought was they were going to try and trade him. Others feel that they may try and trade the new QB.

I figure the WR is a special teamer all the way. I mean, they have the top 3 from last year coming back. Maybe Chad Jackson will actually do something too. This isn't the first time they drafted someone no one expected. Of couse, all the draft-niks aren't working for any team, so they aren't exactly the best of the best.

Maybe the Giants are hoping that a 6 is all you need to run there and catch the ball. I think a 6 will at least be enough to make sure you run the right way as well. Of course, they have a nice shiny Lombardi trophy so they can do whatever the heck they want.

[TKGAngel]

Oh, and the Gmen drafted Manningham from UM...who scored a 6 on the Wunderlich in addition to lying about smoking Pot. :laugh: Wellington Mara did a 360 in his grave. :eek:

-Kevin

A score of 10 on the Wonderlic is literacy!

The guy the Bills picked at #11 scored a 13 on the test. The Buffalo media has already decided he's not going to be their new quote machine.

Here's how average scores break out by position (courtesy of Page 2)

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16

[dando]

I figure the WR is a special teamer all the way. I mean, they have the top 3 from last year coming back. Maybe Chad Jackson will actually do something too. This isn't the first time they drafted someone no one expected. Of couse, all the draft-niks aren't working for any team, so they aren't exactly the best of the best.


Don't forget perennially underachieving Kelley Washington, who the Pats signed away from the Bungles before last season. He was a 3rd round bust @ #3 WR on the best WR corps in the league 3 years ago.

-Kevin

[dando]

A score of 10 on the Wonderlic is literacy!

The guy the Bills picked at #11 scored a 13 on the test. The Buffalo media has already decided he's not going to be their new quote machine.

Here's how average scores break out by position (courtesy of Page 2)

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16


What...DLs and P/Ks got nuttin'? :confused: Who woulda guessed that the big uglies woulda scored better than almost all positions. I guess fewer dates must help to focus on the studies. ;) :gomer:

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Don't forget perennially underachieving Kelley Washington, who the Pats signed away from the Bungles before last season. He was a 3rd round bust @ #3 WR on the best WR corps in the league 3 years ago.

-Kevin

I didn't forget about him. I just counted him as a (good) special teamer. He didn't have 1 pass thrown his way for the few snaps he took at WR last year.

Depth chart was:

Moss
Welker
Gaffney/Stalworth
Washington
Jackson
Brown

I figured he'd be in the same place this year.

[Insomniac]

Thank You Washington!

--Tom Brady

[Ankf00]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/22/brandt-says-roy-williams-could-be-cut/


While making a long early-morning drive and listening to Sirius NFL Radio’s replay of Monday’s Late Hits with Jack Arute and Gil Brandt, we heard Brandt make an intriguing observation regarding Cowboys safety Roy Williams.

Asked by Arute whether recent changes in the enforcement of the illegal contact rule has hurt Williams’ ability to defend against the pass, Brandt offered a concise ”no.” Brandt, previously a long-time personnel guru with Dallas, said that Williams often is in position to make plays but simply doesn’t make them sufficiently consistently.

Then came the kicker. Brandt, citing an unnamed NFL source, said that Williams could be a cap casualty of the Cowboys if he doesn’t have a strong training camp.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Stu]

A score of 10 on the Wonderlic is literacy!

The guy the Bills picked at #11 scored a 13 on the test. The Buffalo media has already decided he's not going to be their new quote machine.

Here's how average scores break out by position (courtesy of Page 2)

Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16

clearly the test is racist.

[Stu]

so do you Bengal/Buckeye fans now hate Carson Palmer?

http://blogs.usatoday.com/gameon/2008/07/carson-palmer-r.html


"I don't watch what I say. I cannot stand the Buckeyes, and having to live in Ohio and hear those people talk about their team, it drives me absolutely nuts . . . It's amazing to hear what those guys think about that university and what they think about that football program and (Ohio State coach Jim) Tressel and all the crap I gotta put up with being back there. I just can't wait for two years from now when SC comes to the 'Shoe and I get to hopefully, hopefully we'll have a home game that weekend and I can go up there and watch us pound on them in their own turf and kind of put all the talk to rest. Because I'm really getting sick of it and I just can't wait for this game to get here so they can come out to the Coliseum and experience LA and get an old-fashioned Pac-10 butt-whoopin' and go back to the Big Ten . . . I can't wait."

http://www.talkingnfl.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/carsondog.jpg

[dando]

Nah....I respect his homerism for SC. Just adds some more motivation for 9/13/08. :cool:

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

no one wins in THE 'SHOE!!!!!... at NIGHT!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[nrc]

His knee must be ok, he backpedals well.


"I'm a Trojan all the way, and I was talking to a Trojan audience in California. I guess I got a little fired up, as all good fans will do. But I really do respect the Buckeyes, and I know their fans are passionate, too. I hope they all understand I'm just looking forward to a big game for my school against a very tough opponent, and that it's all in the good fun of a rivalry. You don't have a real rivalry unless both sides are great teams."