Turbo Indy Cars?

[NismoZ]

USA Today quotes Tony George as saying "chances are better than 50-50" that the next engine for the series will be a turbo. He thinks it's more relevant now and could attract manufacturers.:thumbup::tony:

[chop456]

Does anybody think he has the slightest idea what a complete and utter tool he is?

[Andrew Longman]

Does anybody think he has the slightest idea what a complete and utter tool he is?


Shhhhh. Be vewee, vewee quiet. He's thinking reawee, reawee hard. :tony:

[NismoZ]

Yeah, he says "Now with conservancy and being more efficient environmentally turbocharging has some benefits...":D

[Don Quixote]

Now all the lemmings will say what a great idea this is and praise his vision and leadership. :tony:

[Wally]

Good God...........:shakehead On the other hand that and a Panoz and I may watch my first earl race.:gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

Now all the lemmings will say what a great idea this is and praise his vision and leadership. :tony:

Word there is that having won the war TG will do whatever it takes to care for the sport and the sport needs more manufacturers. If a turbo does that and the cars are loud and fast, then all is cool.

How many manufacturers were playing in 1995? :rolleyes:

But in reality a formula that allows manufacturers to showcase eco friendly, 21st century motive power in a competitive setting would be cool to me.

I'd like to see them move off ethanol too, or at least let someone/thing beat it on the track. Ethanol is proving disastrous to food prices and subsidies for corn-based ethanol is suppressing market pressures on more food friendly versions of the fuel.

Not to get all political, but unless there is a rational, coherent national energy policy I'm not holding my breath that the market place will be ordered enough for manufacturers to step up to use racing as a showcase for their technologies.

[pchall]

Let me be the first to go gomer and point out that there are far more 4.0l or so NA V8s sold in this country than two liter turbos.

FTG clearly has fewer ganglia working than a nematode.

:tony:

[Don Quixote]

The gomers are saying that since he said this, it clearly means that he has a couple of engine manufacturers in his hip pocket. This sport is going to be big. I can feel it. When they start buying time on the Spike network the lemmings will hail it as the greatest thing since the Stanley Steamer. Next, Stalone will make a sequel to Driven, called Drove, and Tony George will be annointed the genius king of the western hemisphere. The only buzz in the media is whether or not the skank's fuel strategy worked and if not, how far back in the pack did she finished. It is over.

[Michaelhatesfans]

....but unless there is a rational, coherent national energy policy....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Brickman]

Does anybody think he has the slightest idea what a complete and utter tool he is?

No.

He lives in a different world.

Not sure what would happen first, Honda leaving, or Cosworth competing against Honda with some new turbo OR Cosworth Spec Turbos Vision 2.0

[Indy]

I would just like to point out that this country's energy policy is completely rational and coherent to everyone in Saudi Arabia.

[cameraman]

I would just like to point out that this country's energy policy is completely rational and coherent to everyone in Saudi Arabia.
Even more so to the Canadians...

[NismoZ]

You haven't heard? The Dakotas are going to save us all! The Indian Wars will heat up again, though.:\

[Methanolandbrats]

Slimey prick Kalkoven will sell Cosworths to FTG..........all part of the master plan to bank a few mil flipping AOWR and thereby "saving" it.

[TravelGal]

Shhhhh. Be vewee, vewee quiet. He's thinking reawee, reawee hard. :tony:

:rofl::rofl: Post of the month!

[oddlycalm]

Just a guess, but this smells like the opening shot of a "formula affordable" plan to use the existing 2.65L V8's that Honda, Cosworth and Penske (former Ilmor holdings) can all produce without a costly ground-up development project.

They not only own the designs, but they have the casting patterns and tooling on the shelf. They also have the benefit of fully understanding the cost side through Cosworth's experience with their CC leases. Getting 1000 racing miles out of each rebuild certainly did take the cost way down.

I think what you will see is the 2.65L turbo and what amounts to rev 2.0 of the DPO1 program. They already own the intellectual property, they have the benefit of knowing the outcome and what worked and what didn't.

A series with half the grid without sponsorship doesn't seem like a series that is about to take out a clean sheet of paper and spend big on a new racing engine design and development program. Unless Honda already had an engine to supply from another series...?

oc

[dando]

Just a guess, but this smells like the opening shot of a "formula affordable" plan to use the existing 2.65L V8's that Honda, Cosworth and Penske (former Ilmor holdings) can all produce without a costly ground-up development project.

They not only own the designs, but they have the casting patterns and tooling on the shelf. They also have the benefit of fully understanding the cost side through Cosworth's experience with their CC leases. Getting 1000 racing miles out of each rebuild certainly did take the cost way down.

I think what you will see is the 2.65L turbo and what amounts to rev 2.0 of the DPO1 program. They already own the intellectual property, they have the benefit of knowing the outcome and what worked and what didn't.

A series with half the grid without sponsorship doesn't seem like a series that is about to take out a clean sheet of paper and spend big on a new racing engine design and development program. Unless Honda already had an engine to supply from another series...?

oc

Yup. 'tis what I fully expected that the 'intellectual property' meant...unless it was an actual rulebook. :gomer: Re-using the engines and tweaking the DP01 chassis (DP02) is the cheapest route to go to put a new shade of lipstick on the pig. Perhaps get Tata and Chery to signup as an engine sponsors to boot. :gomer: :shakehead

-Kevin

[SteveH]

A series with half the grid without sponsorship doesn't seem like a series that is about to take out a clean sheet of paper and spend big on a new racing engine design and development program. Unless Honda already had an engine to supply from another series...?

oc


And that, is exactly the situation in a nutshell. How can a bunch sponsorless teams afford entirely new equipment? They can't.

Keep in mind, however its TG's words we're discussing. Which in all likelihood doesn't represent what's actually going on.

[Napoleon]

"Gentlemen," concluded Napoleon, "I will give you the same toast as before, but in a different form. Fill your glasses to the brim. Gentlemen, here is my toast: To the prosperity of The Manor Farm! "

There was the same hearty cheering as before, and the mugs were emptied to the dregs. But as the animals outside gazed at the scene, it seemed to them that some strange thing was happening. What was it that had altered in the faces of the pigs? Clover's old dim eyes flitted from one face to another. Some of them had five chins, some had four, some had three. But what was it that seemed to be melting and changing? Then, the applause having come to an end, the company took up their cards and continued the game that had been interrupted, and the animals crept silently away.

But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which. George Orwell, Animal Farm

[tllips]

They not only own the designs, but they have the casting patterns and tooling on the shelf. They also have the benefit of fully understanding the cost side through Cosworth's experience with their CC leases. Getting 1000 racing miles out of each rebuild certainly did take the cost way down.



oc

Unless you put a penalty system in place (ala F1) for changing an engine before 1000 miles, you won't get that many miles out of one. Each manufacturer/team will push the performance envelope of the engine to get the last HP out of it. Remember, the only reason the engines lasted that long between re-builds was due to the fact the performance was de-tuned for longevity.

[Don Quixote]

George Orwell, Animal Farm

:thumbup:

[opinionated ow]

George Orwell, Animal Farm

A book which as an 11 year old meant nothing....why do they force you to read the good ones in primary school?

[cameraman]

Unless you put a penalty system in place (ala F1) for changing an engine before 1000 miles, you won't get that many miles out of one. Each manufacturer/team will push the performance envelope of the engine to get the last HP out of it. Remember, the only reason the engines lasted that long between re-builds was due to the fact the performance was de-tuned for longevity.

You need to have the penalty system in place and I think the 2007 XFE cycle was 1400 miles.

[pchall]

I think Tony will finally reach gomer nirvana when the the formula is 1.5l blown running on bio-fuels that starve the 3rd world at the expensive of western meat producers. As long as there is enough soy and corn left to provide them 101:cool: with cheep pork for tenderloins the hooiers gomers will be happy.

[oddlycalm]

You need to have the penalty system in place and I think the 2007 XFE cycle was 1400 miles.
Carping about a mere 40% deviation I see...? :gomer: Agreed, whatever the race mileage there would need to be a rule to enforce the number of races. Only thing that makes sense with multiple engines.

oc

[TravelGal]

Yup. 'tis what I fully expected that the 'intellectual property' meant...unless it was an actual rulebook.

-Kevin

Not to hijack the conversation but I believe they wanted the intellectual property to squash all talk of CART/CCWS. Everything that was CART/Champ Car, all the memories, all the records, all the legacy, is now theirs. It was giving up the intellectual property that I found to be the unkindest cut of all.

[Sean Malone]

Not to hijack the conversation but I believe they wanted the intellectual property to squash all talk of CART/CCWS. Everything that was CART/Champ Car, all the memories, all the records, all the legacy, is now theirs. It was giving up the intellectual property that I found to be the unkindest cut of all.

Just playing devils advocate...what would you have them do with it? At least now CART/CCWS stats are combined within the unified stats. it's not a "us" "them" thing, it's a "we' thing. It will be better in the long run

[Michaelhatesfans]

I think Tony will finally reach gomer nirvana when the the formula is 1.5l blown running on bio-fuels that starve the 3rd world at the expensive of western meat producers. As long as there is enough soy and corn left to provide them 101:cool: with cheep pork for tenderloins the hooiers gomers will be happy.

Nebraska. It's the new Kuwait.

[Insomniac]

Unless you put a penalty system in place (ala F1) for changing an engine before 1000 miles, you won't get that many miles out of one. Each manufacturer/team will push the performance envelope of the engine to get the last HP out of it. Remember, the only reason the engines lasted that long between re-builds was due to the fact the performance was de-tuned for longevity.

They can force de-tuned engines with a rev limit. They can also force mileage requirements and make replacement rules just like CC had. The engine didn't have to go 1200 miles, but they were designed to. If something was wrong with them before then, they were replaced.

[TravelGal]

Just playing devils advocate...what would you have them do with it? At least now CART/CCWS stats are combined within the unified stats. it's not a "us" "them" thing, it's a "we' thing. It will be better in the long run


At least now CART/CCWS stats are combined within the unified stats. it's not a "us" "them" thing, it's a "we' thing. It will be better in the long run

What I would have them do is care about the sport in its entirety. (good luck on that one, eh?) They do not seem to want to be the proper custodians of the history. I read a recent article that said open wheel started in the US in 1975 with IndyCar. :p

I agree that unified stats are good. But are they going to truly unify them.? Before the IRL stats were looked upon somewhat askance. Now they are already omitting the CCWS stats. I wish I could remember the exact quote from one of the announcers last weekend but it drew a line that bypassed the last 12 years of the CART/CCWS side completely.

Assuming that IRL continues, having it all in one is a good thing. I just have to get used to it. OTOH, if the IRL does not continue ad infinitum (and naseum), some future entity will get the intellectual property rights to promote and do with what THEY want.

In the end, all you have is your reputation. It's why I hated to see those intellectual rights given away. You are quite correct though Sean. If the bankrupt shell of CCWS had "kept" them, what could they have done with them? Nothing. Except fuel the hope that the shriveled and dead "parent" series would rise again. Now wouldn't *that* have created a mess?!