Seat Belts?

[Andrew Longman]

When did they start to require seatbelts in race cars?

I recall the mid 60s and F1 had drivers driving in sweaters and beltless, but at some point in only a few years seatbelts were universal.

[cameraman]

Here is the F1 info

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/news/safety.html

[pchall]

When I was a kid I remember reading F1 books mentioning that the European drivers were pissed about the seatbelt requirement at the 1960 USGP at Riverside, so the roadracers in the US must have been ahead of Europe in this matter. I think the helmets where supposed to have a Snell Foundation sticker on them as well.

Those were the days when many racers preferred to be ejected from the car rather than risk be trapped in a fire.



When did they start to require seatbelts in race cars?

I recall the mid 60s and F1 had drivers driving in sweaters and beltless, but at some point in only a few years seatbelts were universal.

[emjaya]

1968: Recommendations on seat harnesses, fire-resistant clothing, shatter-proof visors.

1972: 6-point harness. Drivers' Code of Conduct published.


So not until 1972 that it was mandatory? :eek:

[Andrew Longman]

So not until 1972 that it was mandatory? :eek:

Now I'm going to have watch it tonight, but in the 1967 (?) movie Grand Prix, I don't think they are wearing seat belts. The character Sartees dies when he is thrown from his car and lands in a tree.

[emjaya]

Now I'm going to have watch it tonight, but in the 1967 (?) movie Grand Prix, I don't think they are wearing seat belts. The character Sartees dies when he is thrown from his car and lands in a tree.

I'm going to dig out my well-thumbed Brabham book, because I think Gurney had/wanted seatbelts when he was driving for Brabham in 1963 (?).

[pchall]

Ditto when Pete Aron takes a swim in the harbour at Monaco.


Now I'm going to have watch it tonight, but in the 1967 (?) movie Grand Prix, I don't think they are wearing seat belts. The character Sartees dies when he is thrown from his car and lands in a tree.

[Dirk Diggler]

Up until the late 60's, the common feeling in F1 was that being ejected from the car was better than being burned alive in it. That's not me being melodramatic, that was just the way it was.

[Insomniac]

Speaking of being burned, it has always bugged me that it seems like drivers can't easily get out of their cars. I've noticed they now all have that extra piece around the cockpit which generally needs to be removed first.

[Andrew Longman]

Speaking of being burned, it has always bugged me that it seems like drivers can't easily get out of their cars. I've noticed they now all have that extra piece around the cockpit which generally needs to be removed first.

Yes, but that removable piece of foam provides an important extra measure of head protection and help keep the driver and arms in the cockpit. If you don't survive the impact, there is no hurry to get out of the car.

[Andrew Longman]

Up until the late 60's, the common feeling in F1 was that being ejected from the car was better than being burned alive in it. That's not me being melodramatic, that was just the way it was.

Given the amount of fire in those days they perhaps had a point.

Was Vukovich wearing a belt when he died in 55. It seems he would have had to given how much the car tumbled before coming to rest on top of him and then catching fire.

Still, being ejected seems an almost certain death.

[Insomniac]

Yes, but that removable piece of foam provides an important extra measure of head protection and help keep the driver and arms in the cockpit. If you don't survive the impact, there is no hurry to get out of the car.

I always thought it was for aero purposes.

[Dirk Diggler]

I always thought it was for aero purposes.

No, it's a type of foam, and often times it's not held on by much. I'm sure aero comes into consideration in the design, but it's purpose is to help in a side impact - keeps the head from bouncing around too much in the cockpit.

[Dirk Diggler]

Still, being ejected seems an almost certain death.

Bear in mind that they didn't have fuel bladders in the tanks, and the conventional design of the era had the driver sitting (literally) between the fuel tanks. Run off was laughable in those days, so your odds of hitting something that would rupture an aluminum fuel tank were pretty good. It's hard to imagine drivers having to make a choice like that today - thank god!

[Insomniac]

No, it's a type of foam, and often times it's not held on by much. I'm sure aero comes into consideration in the design, but it's purpose is to help in a side impact - keeps the head from bouncing around too much in the cockpit.

I see, so it is an acceptable trade off.

[Easy]

I always thought it was for aero purposes.

It was a response to Hakkinen's head injuries from his crash at Adelaide in 95(?). He needed an emergency trach at the scene to survive long enough to get to the hospital.

[Accipiter]

No, it's a type of foam, and often times it's not held on by much. I'm sure aero comes into consideration in the design, but it's purpose is to help in a side impact - keeps the head from bouncing around too much in the cockpit.

I remember reading an article or interview, I think about Adrian Reynard, in RACER magazine back when that head protection was first put into the cockpits in CART. They said when the new rule was announced, they thought the cockpit surrounds were going to be an aerodynamic detriment to the car, but instead they were surprised to find that it helped reduce drag.

I don't think CART followed F1 with the implementation of the device, and F1 never committed to it as much as CART did either (even today there is still a lot of room for neck lash in an F1 car). IRRC it was something they came to on their own from studying their own crash data, and happened with a bunch of safety revisions that came into play about '96 or there abouts.

[tantra]

Racers were wearing seat belts as far back (at least) as the early 50's. I may have some old black and white prints from my Brownie camera I took to the races then.

NASCAR required belts beginning in 1952, and SCCA first required lap belt usage in 1954.

Yes, Billy was wearing a lap belt in '55 when he went upside down and burned to death at Indy. All racers were wearing lap belts by then.

[meadors]

I remember reading Jackie Stewart's autobiography, many safety issues were at dealt with even into the 70's though.

Jochen Rindt's injuries were so severe because he did not like the constraint of a six point harness and wore only lap and shoulder belts. He slid down in the cockpit injuring one of his legs but also cutting his neck on the windscreen and causing fatal hemoraging.

[opinionated ow]

No, it's a type of foam, and often times it's not held on by much. I'm sure aero comes into consideration in the design, but it's purpose is to help in a side impact - keeps the head from bouncing around too much in the cockpit.

We use the same thing on the Formula 3 cars. I am sure it has a name, but I have always just referred to it as a head restraint. They sit on a ledge so that the top edge is level with the exterior of the cockpit and incorporate the headrest divot, and are held on by two clips. They are designed to be quickly removed in an emergency, but will not move around freely in the cars. They do their job and if need be you can squeeze out through the gap to escape.

[Andrew Longman]

Racers were wearing seat belts as far back (at least) as the early 50's. I may have some old black and white prints from my Brownie camera I took to the races then.

NASCAR required belts beginning in 1952, and SCCA first required lap belt usage in 1954.

Yes, Billy was wearing a lap belt in '55 when he went upside down and burned to death at Indy. All racers were wearing lap belts by then.

But they weren't necessarily wearing them in F1 10 years later. Interesting.

And I am so pleased fire is something what we almost never have to worry about anymore.

Still, I get concerned whenever there is talk of moving to gasoline. Being able to just throw a bucket of water to instantly extinguish a fire is so much more comforting when remembering countless fires where fire bottle after fire bottle was emptied on a car while the driver roasts.

BTW I noticed during 500 that when AJIV pulled his fueling rig down and set himself on fire, they sprayed the car with something foamy. Not just water. At least it looked that way from the onboard. With ethanol, can they not just use water?

[pchall]

I would think that whatever they spray that is foamy must also work for oil fires. In any incident they'd need to be prepared for both kinds of fire.



BTW I noticed during 500 that when AJIV pulled his fueling rig down and set himself on fire, they sprayed the car with something foamy. Not just water. At least it looked that way from the onboard. With ethanol, can they not just use water?

[grungex]

BTW I noticed during 500 that when AJIV pulled his fueling rig down and set himself on fire, they sprayed the car with something foamy. Not just water. At least it looked that way from the onboard. With ethanol, can they not just use water?

There is some gasoline in the "pure ethanol" they are using, IIRC. 5%?

[Brickman]

There is some gasoline in the "pure ethanol" they are using, IIRC. 5%?

Their "pure fuel-grade ethanol" is 10%