FIA plans to resurrect F2

[oddlycalm]

There aren't enough ladder formulas in Europe...? Their target cost would be €300,000 to run a car for the season. :rolleyes:

FIA plans to resurrect F2 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68628)


One current GP2 team boss told autosport.com: "Our cars actually cost €190,000, and that's without the engines. If it's a junior formula, like Formula Ford or something, then fine, but you cannot run anything substantial for that kind of money. For example, a Formula BMW costs just under €300,000 to run per car in Europe, and that's with zero margin.

"I can't think what cars they expect to run for €200,000, because there are people spending that kind of money in karting in Europe."


Sounds like Max had a bad reaction from chewing on the urinal cakes again.

oc

[cameraman]

Not €300,000.

"It is hoped this can be achieved within a budget of around €200,000 a car per season."

Which makes it even dumber, unless F2 is going to be the premier 125cc Kart series:shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

Does'nt a seasons worth of food and booze for the crew cost almost that much:confused:

[STD]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[pchall]

I remember when the 2.0l production engine derived F2 was the shiznitz. Why they ever screwed with it and allowed pure race engines in sending costs through the roof never made sense. When it was finally abandoned after the 1984 season for F3000 it made even less sense (unless somebody had the slightly used DFV supply cornered and wanted to turn a quick quid). GP2 has just been stupid.

[meadors]

As a simple minded linear thinker, I see Formula 2 as a logical step. Ya have f-3 to start, and f-1 as the top, why would the step in the ladder between f-3 and f-1 be f-2?

I know of course the formula they are asking talking about maybe dumb, but come on why did the names change in the first place. I thought f-3000 was silly as replacement for f-2, and gp2 was not much better.

Politics, though, since FIA is getting raked over the Max problem, they decide to rename the minor league series.

[opinionated ow]

As a simple minded linear thinker, I see Formula 2 as a logical step. Ya have f-3 to start, and f-1 as the top, why would the step in the ladder between f-3 and f-1 be f-2?

I know of course the formula they are asking talking about maybe dumb, but come on why did the names change in the first place. I thought f-3000 was silly as replacement for f-2, and gp2 was not much better.

Politics, though, since FIA is getting raked over the Max problem, they decide to rename the minor league series.

If they want to make a good Formula 2, it needs to have speed in the vicinity of Renault World Series and GP2. But they should allow open development as they do in Formula 3. You don't exactly see Formula 3 disappearing like you see in Formula BMW, Renault etc.

Possibly, say 4L production engine, with racing heads. Twin plane rear wings and monoplane front wings with a maximum area set on all components including front wing flaps. Make them run a (hypothetical) 15" wheel size. No pieces below the floor of the car/nose with the exception of the wing and a maximum defined size of bargeboard.

[emjaya]

I remember when the 2.0l production engine derived F2 was the shiznitz. Why they ever screwed with it and allowed pure race engines in sending costs through the roof never made sense. When it was finally abandoned after the 1984 season for F3000 it made even less sense (unless somebody had the slightly used DFV supply cornered and wanted to turn a quick quid). GP2 has just been stupid.

Ummm. :saywhat: :laugh:


Formula 3000 replaced Formula Two, and was so named because the engines used initially were 3.0 L (183ci) Cosworth DFV engines made obsolete by Formula One's change in engine rules. (It has been observed Bernie Ecclestone had purchased a job-lot of DFVs in 1984, with no obvious use for them at the time).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_3000

[eiregosod]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I thought there was GP2, wait, GP1 ;) -GP2-GP3 and F1-F2-F3

[cameraman]

GP2 has just been stupid.

How do you figure that? By next season about half the F1 field will have come out of GP2 and the races are enjoyable mayhem to watch.

[pchall]

I "figure that" because GP2 was conceived as a single chassis and single engine spec series. F3000 at least started as a series open to any 90º V8 engine and multiple chassis suppliers and, as such, was at least a formula somewhat worthy of being the replacement for the original 2.0l F2.

As for "enjoyable mayhem" that sends drivers to the next rung, I could get that from IPS or Renault World Series as well. ;)



How do you figure that? By next season about half the F1 field will have come out of GP2 and the races are enjoyable mayhem to watch.

[cameraman]

As for "enjoyable mayhem" that sends drivers to the next rung, I could get that from IPS

Ahh, no, not so much. Truth be told there really was little difference between a GP2 race and a 2007 CCWS race. Both spec engine & chassis.

You want engine competition that no one can afford.

[STD]

What F3000 turned into was no different than GP2 from 1996 spec Lola chassis and spec detuned Judd power.
Expenses of the F3000 open formula cost too much against lower cost spec formulas in Europe.
For driver training as well as total team training, spec series have their places.

When spec racing becomes the head of the class as the top professional stop. I bale out from boredom.

The current F2 idea floating has nothing at all to do with racing or bringing costs down.

Can't wait for GP1 and GP3. :laugh:

[pchall]

Expenses of the F3000 open formula cost too much against lower cost spec formulas in Europe.

That's why I held of the original stock block 2.0l F2 as the model for what I think a new F2 should be. It capped costs until Renault got the FIA to let them run a pure race V6 and then Honda showed up with one as well.


Can't wait for GP1 and GP3. :laugh:

Check your mirrors: the GP1 spec racer is closer than you think.

[STD]

Ahh, no, not so much. Truth be told there really was little difference between a GP2 race and a 2007 CCWS race. Both spec engine & chassis.

You want engine competition that no one can afford.

I agree with the stats comparison. I can handle GP2 or AIGP for that matter to be what they are. There has to be a level at which the talent can be judged fairly or as nearly to it as possible.
Basic levels below the true next stop at the top. Whatever that maybe today. :shakehead

[STD]

Check your mirrors: the GP1 spec racer is closer than you think.

I know that may be... Max wants a spec F1 as it is and it's much too spec for my liking already, hell what to watch! CCWS and the IRL were already in that same pile of crap.
In the end if that happens (total spec F1 or GP1) no manufacturers will care to go there as well. I will bail just as I did on CCWS, never did give Tony a chance. :laugh:

[Accipiter]

They should just adopt the Atlantic formula since it could be argued that they are an F2 series that never stopped operation. ;)

[opinionated ow]

They should just adopt the Atlantic formula since it could be argued that they are an F2 series that never stopped operation. ;)

My understanding was Formula Atlantic became Formula 3...

[pchall]

My understanding was Formula Atlantic became Formula 3...

Atlantics originated in SCCA Formula B for engines up to 1600cc, which corresponded to the mid 60s Formula 2. Atlantics diverged from F2 when F2 went to 2.0l and Atlantics retained 1.6l engines and continued as a national series in the UK, Canada, and US.

The confusion of Atlantics with F3 stems from the introduction of the air restricted 1.6l F3, which replaced the 1.0l F3 in 1971.

[emjaya]

I missed this bit of news. :\

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20779.html


The FIA has awarded the tender to supply chassis and engines for the new FIA Formula 2 Championship to Jonathan Palmer's MotorSport Vision company.


Palmer, who won the European Formula 2 Championship back in 1983 before beginning a career in Formula 1, has commissioned Williams F1 to design the car, which will incorporate a turbocharged 1.8 litre Audi engine, which has been used in recent years in Formula Palmer Audi.

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43986

[opinionated ow]

I missed this bit of news. :\

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20779.html





http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43986

Sounds less appealing than GP2!

[pchall]

Sounds less appealing than GP2!

Sounds less appealing than F3, as well. F3 is still a proper formula car series and F2 should be one as well.

This is sounding just like a warmed over Formula Palmer-Audi series and not enough of an advance over F3 to make it a step up.


In all probability the new F2 series will follow the pattern of the Formula Palmer Audi series, which will mean that identical cars are prepared by a central organisation (as happens in A1GP) and they are prepared to identical standards, including being ballasted to weigh the same. The current championship operates with push-to-pass buttons which will no doubt be retained. Formula Palmer Audi has been mainly British-based but has hosted events at a variety of European tracks.

The Palmer-Audi cars are pretty much decade old F3-like cars with 50-60 more HP and another 50 HP with the overboost button. The engine is the 1.8L 5 valve unit. They could at least open the engine formula to any production based 2.0L 4 cylinder with a turbo and get the HP up to 450 HP... otherwise, what's the point?

[opinionated ow]

Sounds less appealing than F3, as well. F3 is still a proper formula car series and F2 should be one as well.

This is sounding just like a warmed over Formula Palmer-Audi series and not enough of an advance over F3 to make it a step up.



The Palmer-Audi cars are pretty much decade old F3-like cars with 50-60 more HP and another 50 HP with the overboost button. The engine is the 1.8L 5 valve unit. They could at least open the engine formula to any production based 2.0L 4 cylinder with a turbo and get the HP up to 450 HP... otherwise, what's the point?

I agree with you 100%. This is one of the reasons I love Formula 3 racing...variety coupled with lots of quality overtaking. All they had to do was use the current GP2 chassis as a basis for some chassis rules and allow the engines up to 3.5L/6 cylinders with air restrictors to even out the 3.0, 3.2 and 3,5 (the 3 most common engine sizes after 2L/4) using production block and racing head...ala F3.

[pchall]

I agree with you 100%. This is one of the reasons I love Formula 3 racing...variety coupled with lots of quality overtaking. All they had to do was use the current GP2 chassis as a basis for some chassis rules and allow the engines up to 3.5L/6 cylinders with air restrictors to even out the 3.0, 3.2 and 3,5 (the 3 most common engine sizes after 2L/4) using production block and racing head...ala F3.

That would be a lot more interesting. I was also thinking that the F3 chassis regs and the F2 chassis regs should be similar enough that the same basic tub design could be used by a manufacturer in each category. There was a time when the same basic chassis could run in Formula Junior and F1. No reason it couldn't be done again with F3 and F2.