View Full Version : Tivo HD?
I'm looking to upgrade the ~10 year-old ReplayTV boxes. Best damn ~$300 (each) I've spent AV equipment ever....alas it's time to move to an HD DVR solution. Anyone else using these units? If so, any suggestions on upgrade info? From a quick bit of research, it appears that InstantCake is a good sw solution for DIY upgrades for ~$20, and a new 750GB Seagate HD for $120. Series 3 is just too damn expensive, and the HD model can be had for <$200 refurb.
-Kevin
Insomniac
07-09-08, 02:02 PM
I'm looking to upgrade the ~10 year-old ReplayTV boxes. Best damn ~$300 (each) I've spent AV equipment ever....alas it's time to move to an HD DVR solution. Anyone else using these units? If so, any suggestions on upgrade info? From a quick bit of research, it appears that InstantCake is a good sw solution for DIY upgrades for ~$20, and a new 750GB Seagate HD for $120. Series 3 is just too damn expensive, and the HD model can be had for <$200 refurb.
-Kevin
:thumbup: ReplayTV. Best $250 I spent back then. Lifetime sub to boot. Switched to TiVo with DirecTV.
You can also add an external drive to the TiVo HD.
Also, all the TiVo experts can be found at http://www.tivocommunity.com/.
ReplayTV. Best $250 I spent back then. Lifetime sub to boot. Switched to TiVo with DirecTV.
You can also add an external drive to the TiVo HD.
Also, all the TiVo experts can be found at http://www.tivocommunity.com/.
10 years and 2 hard drive replacements later....still going. :thumbup: The remotes didn't last, but the boxes are rock solid. DirecTV now owns ReplayTV. :thumdown:
I saw the external HD option to triple the capacity, but I'm a tinkerer. :) If I can increase the drive size by 7x (20 hours to 144 hours) for almost the same cost...
Switching to Tivo is as hard as embracing the new EARL for a ReplayTV fan. :(
-Kevin
Switching to Tivo is as hard as embracing the new EARL for a ReplayTV fan. :(
As a fan of the winning side I say, HA!
You understand that the S3 and HD don't control an external box the way previous generation TiVo and Replay boxes did, right? It has built-in tuners for over-the-air, analog cable, and digital cable. Digital cable reception requires cable cards. Your experience will depend a lot on how cable card friendly your cable company is.
Ours works great. It's been as easy to use and trouble-free as our DirecTV TiVos ever were.
Unfortunately I can't help much on storage upgrades. I haven't messed with it. The S3 has adequate storage and I prefer to offload programs for longer term storage to our home server with TiVo's network features.
As a fan of the winning side I say, HA!
You understand that the S3 and HD don't control an external box the way previous generation TiVo and Replay boxes did, right? It has built-in tuners for over-the-air, analog cable, and digital cable. Digital cable reception requires cable cards. Your experience will depend a lot on how cable card friendly your cable company is.
Ours works great. It's been as easy to use and trouble-free as our DirecTV TiVos ever were.
Unfortunately I can't help much on storage upgrades. I haven't messed with it. The S3 has adequate storage and I prefer to offload programs for longer term storage to our home server with TiVo's network features.
:p
The cable card feature is one reason I'm considering the move. TWC released a crapgrade to their STB guide software that is so slow, it causes the STBs to miss IR signals sent by IR emitters like standalone DVRs. Idiots. So instead of recording channel 35, the STB changes the channel to channel 5, or sometimes the STB just outright ignores the change. :mad: Cable cards means no STB issues, but also no ondemand stuff, but we don't use that either. Well, ocassionally for kids shows, but they also have issues with the ondemand stuff due to the crapgrade. :irked: No STBs also means I save $10/mo. :thumbup:
I've done some more checking on storage upgrades, and oddly if the internal HD is upgraded, the eSATA external drive won't work unless an additional hack is peformed (which is risky). Strange. The home network feature is definitely a bonus as well.
I assume you have lifetime service?
-Kevin
I assume you have lifetime service?
-Kevin
Not anymore. We had it on one of our original TiVos before DirecTV came out with the integrated TiVo boxes. We were able to transfer it to our DTV box but when DTV took over those subscriptions it became untransferable. We bought our S3 before they reintroduced lifetime service.
before they reintroduced lifetime service.
Put that on the list of things that make you go "Hmmmmm?". :confused:
-Kevin
Insomniac
07-09-08, 05:46 PM
10 years and 2 hard drive replacements later....still going. :thumbup: The remotes didn't last, but the boxes are rock solid. DirecTV now owns ReplayTV. :thumdown:
I saw the external HD option to triple the capacity, but I'm a tinkerer. :) If I can increase the drive size by 7x (20 hours to 144 hours) for almost the same cost...
Switching to Tivo is as hard as embracing the new EARL for a ReplayTV fan. :(
-Kevin
Mine went 6-7 years. I ended up selling it for what I paid (minus the cost to upgrade to an 80 GB HD). Which is almost unheard of when it comes to consumer electronics.
When did DirecTV acquire the ReplayTV IP?
I may be missing something, but why can't you make the same increase with an external drive? Plus, unlike DirecTV's HD receiver, you also can use the internal HD space.
I wasn't too keen on the switch, but 2 things I found to be superior were the dual tuner (and now that I have the DirecTV HD receiver, the dual tuner buffer) and the ability to hit record after you saw something. The ReplayTV could only pick up from the live point. TiVo can go back into the buffer either to the beginning of the recording or the beginning of the buffer. (Note that I don't make any use of the thumbs up/thumbs down/suggestions feature, you may find it useful). Things i didn't like. The (grid) guide is way slower (I think it's fixed in S3). The buffer is only 30 minutes. On ReplayTV, it's as long as you have free HD space. Small annoyance, you have to program in the 30 second skip, it resets to the default if the machine is rebooted. You'll probably survive.
(On a kind of on topic note, instead of starting a thread in feedback, this has happened to me a few times and I know nrc is reading this thread.)
nrc: Can you increase the images per post limit? In this reply for example, I quoted dando, but he used 4 emoticons already. I can't use any without editing his quote. I'd like to think we wouldn't all go nuts if you increased the limit.
Insomniac
07-09-08, 05:47 PM
As a fan of the winning side I say, HA!
You understand that the S3 and HD don't control an external box the way previous generation TiVo and Replay boxes did, right? It has built-in tuners for over-the-air, analog cable, and digital cable. Digital cable reception requires cable cards. Your experience will depend a lot on how cable card friendly your cable company is.
Ours works great. It's been as easy to use and trouble-free as our DirecTV TiVos ever were.
Unfortunately I can't help much on storage upgrades. I haven't messed with it. The S3 has adequate storage and I prefer to offload programs for longer term storage to our home server with TiVo's network features.
My brother is even using a multistream cable card on his. :thumbup:
Mine went 6-7 years. I ended up selling it for what I paid (minus the cost to upgrade to an 80 GB HD). Which is almost unheard of when it comes to consumer electronics.
When did DirecTV acquire the ReplayTV IP?
I may be missing something, but why can't you make the same increase with an external drive? Plus, unlike DirecTV's HD receiver, you also can use the internal HD space.
I wasn't too keen on the switch, but 2 things I found to be superior were the dual tuner (and now that I have the DirecTV HD receiver, the dual tuner buffer) and the ability to hit record after you saw something. The ReplayTV could only pick up from the live point. TiVo can go back into the buffer either to the beginning of the recording or the beginning of the buffer. (Note that I don't make any use of the thumbs up/thumbs down/suggestions feature, you may find it useful). Things i didn't like. The (grid) guide is way slower (I think it's fixed in S3). The buffer is only 30 minutes. On ReplayTV, it's as long as you have free HD space. Small annoyance, you have to program in the 30 second skip, it resets to the default if the machine is rebooted. You'll probably survive.
(On a kind of on topic note, instead of starting a thread in feedback, this has happened to me a few times and I know nrc is reading this thread.)
nrc: Can you increase the images per post limit? In this reply for example, I quoted dando, but he used 4 emoticons already. I can't use any without editing his quote. I'd like to think we wouldn't all go nuts if you increased the limit.
DTV bought RTV last December:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReplayTV
I found out when I ventured out to replaytv.com. :(
Only certain Tivo Verified external HDs (WDs) will work with the Tivo HD model, so users are forced to use the WD drives. Newegg has the 500GB model for $165, so the cost isn't that out of whack. However, I can get a 750GB Seagate internal HD for $120.
The dual tuner, network features and cable card support is what is attractive to me. I've read comments about the slow guide, but that appears to have improved with updated firmware. I haven't read about the 30-second skip issue, so I wonder if that was fixed. What's the default for the skip w/o changing it to 30 seconds?
Bring on more smilies! :thumbup:
-Kevin
I may be missing something, but why can't you make the same increase with an external drive? Plus, unlike DirecTV's HD receiver, you also can use the internal HD space.
You can and unlike DTV models, internal space is still available. But in general I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on that approach - drives becoming un-married, etc. My view is that I wouldn't want the extra box in my entertainment center.
Things i didn't like. The (grid) guide is way slower (I think it's fixed in S3). The buffer is only 30 minutes. On ReplayTV, it's as long as you have free HD space. Small annoyance, you have to program in the 30 second skip, it resets to the default if the machine is rebooted. You'll probably survive.
We never use the grid guide. The TiVo guide is better for looking out into the future on my favorite channels. On the rare occasion that I'm watching live TV I pause during commercials to surf the guide. I also don't use 30 second skip (I prefer to FF and avoid any overskipping) but I think I've read that in the latest releases the 30 second skip programming persists over reboots.
nrc: Can you increase the images per post limit? In this reply for example, I quoted dando, but he used 4 emoticons already. I can't use any without editing his quote. I'd like to think we wouldn't all go nuts if you increased the limit.
The image limit is intended to guard against posts full of lots of large images. Too many smilies can be a little annoying also but I can probably bump the number up a little.
DTV bought RTV last December:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReplayTV
I found out when I ventured out to replaytv.com. :(
Conventional wisedom is that they bought ReplayTV for their patents as protection from TiVo for when their agreement ends in a few years.
I haven't read about the 30-second skip issue, so I wonder if that was fixed. What's the default for the skip w/o changing it to 30 seconds?
Default TiVo behavior for skip is to skip to the end of the program if in play, or to the next 15 minute tick if fast forwarding. Pressing skip at the end of the program will also skip back to the beginning. So by default skip is used for navigating in the program, not skipping commercials. Default TiVo use is using FF through commercials.
So by default skip is used for navigating in the program, not skipping commercials. Default TiVo use is using FF through commercials.
:yuck: :irked:
Ah well, ya can't have everything. Tivo had the UI and RTV the tech feature advantage (30-second skip, commercial skip, sharing, etc.), @ least until the Sonicblue bought them and the lawsuits ensued. :(
-Kevin
:yuck: :irked:
Ah well, ya can't have everything. Tivo had the UI and RTV the tech feature advantage (30-second skip, commercial skip, sharing, etc.), @ least until the Sonicblue bought them and the lawsuits ensued. :(
-Kevin
Those are just the defaults. Enable the 30 second skip and skip jumps 30 seconds if you're in play or to the tick if your in FF.
Insomniac
07-09-08, 10:14 PM
Only certain Tivo Verified external HDs (WDs) will work with the Tivo HD model, so users are forced to use the WD drives. Newegg has the 500GB model for $165, so the cost isn't that out of whack. However, I can get a 750GB Seagate internal HD for $120.
The dual tuner, network features and cable card support is what is attractive to me. I've read comments about the slow guide, but that appears to have improved with updated firmware. I haven't read about the 30-second skip issue, so I wonder if that was fixed. What's the default for the skip w/o changing it to 30 seconds?
I did some more reading and I see the HD is more limited. You will have to void your warranty either way. Either replace the internal HD or hack it by removing it. Might as well do the internal upgrade and have the original drive as a backup. Or settle for the 500 GB WD drive.
It's not really an issue per se. You just get used to skipping that way with the ReplayTV, but by default it jumps to the "tick" marks (15m, 30m, 1hr, depending on the length of your recording). So it's worthless for skipping commercials. That's how I knew if my DirecTiVo rebooted. It would jump like that on me. But it's simple. Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select on the remote.
Insomniac
07-09-08, 10:24 PM
You can and unlike DTV models, internal space is still available. But in general I've heard a lot of mixed reviews on that approach - drives becoming un-married, etc. My view is that I wouldn't want the extra box in my entertainment center.
I said that in my post. ;) But I agree. If you could power the drive with eSATA, I'd do it. It's pretty dumb that you can't.
We never use the grid guide. The TiVo guide is better for looking out into the future on my favorite channels. On the rare occasion that I'm watching live TV I pause during commercials to surf the guide. I also don't use 30 second skip (I prefer to FF and avoid any overskipping) but I think I've read that in the latest releases the 30 second skip programming persists over reboots.
I know the performance was so slow I switched to the list guide. I got used to it, and I actually miss it now. It's much better for people who don't channel surf and only watch a small fraction of available channels. As you say, you can see what is coming up on a channel much better. I still prefer the 30s skip to FF. I think it's much quicker.[/QUOTE]
The image limit is intended to guard against posts full of lots of large images. Too many smilies can be a little annoying also but I can probably bump the number up a little.
Woohoo!
Conventional wisedom is that they bought ReplayTV for their patents as protection from TiVo for when their agreement ends in a few years.
That's a good guess. It certainly guarantees they're protected from an E*-like problem.
Default TiVo behavior for skip is to skip to the end of the program if in play, or to the next 15 minute tick if fast forwarding. Pressing skip at the end of the program will also skip back to the beginning. So by default skip is used for navigating in the program, not skipping commercials. Default TiVo use is using FF through commercials.
Heh, I thought it did the tick marks first, but now that I read this I remember! I was confused because I'd use the FF then skip thing to jump to the tick marks and thought I was restoring the original functionality. :)
One other thing to look into - Switched Digital Video. SDV is a switching technology that allows more digital channels over cable's available bandwidth. The problem is that TiVo (or any cable card device) cannot yet tune SDV channels. So if your cable provider puts new channels on SDV you cannot yet receive them with TiVO.
An add-on "dongle" to allow cable card devices with USB to tune SDV channels is in the works and expected later this year. TW has been one of the biggest adopters of SDV technology.
oddlycalm
07-10-08, 03:01 AM
I've never had a problem with TiVo or Replay boxes with larger cloned drives. I swapped the drive in every box I've owned in fact. One of the nice aspects of DVR's is the cottage industry that's grown up around them. :thumbup: The external drive is a great idea for technophobes though.
oc
Insomniac
07-10-08, 11:20 AM
I've never had a problem with TiVo or Replay boxes with larger cloned drives. I swapped the drive in every box I've owned in fact. One of the nice aspects of DVR's is the cottage industry that's grown up around them. :thumbup: The external drive is a great idea for technophobes though.
oc
Or those who don't want to void their warranty out of the box. ;)
oddlycalm
07-10-08, 05:14 PM
Or those who don't want to void their warranty out of the box. ;)
Certainly a consideration for many.
On the other hand, the warranty only has value if you're willing to be without the box for an extended period and pay the substantial shipping charges. Considering what the power supply and drive cost on the aftermarket, and the fact that you can get them right away it's a minor risk for anyone capable of screwing together a simple PC.
I can't really imagine buying a new box. I have always bought lifetime activation boxes off eBay or refurbs with lifetime activation. Since we have two boxes paying a monthly bill on both wasn't interesting to me.
oc
One other thing to look into - Switched Digital Video. SDV is a switching technology that allows more digital channels over cable's available bandwidth. The problem is that TiVo (or any cable card device) cannot yet tune SDV channels. So if your cable provider puts new channels on SDV you cannot yet receive them with TiVO.
An add-on "dongle" to allow cable card devices with USB to tune SDV channels is in the works and expected later this year. TW has been one of the biggest adopters of SDV technology.
According to TWC, they should have "Open CableCARDs" that support SDV and ondemand services available (the site mentions Q4 '07/Q1 '08 availability). Unfortunately the 411 on the Tivo site doesn't specify whether open cards are supported, just that an M card or 2 S cards are required for dual tuner (multi vs. uni stream). TWC's site mentions that OCC support varies by DVR. :irked: So the question is does the HD support open cards?
-Kevin
Insomniac
07-10-08, 11:51 PM
Certainly a consideration for many.
On the other hand, the warranty only has value if you're willing to be without the box for an extended period and pay the substantial shipping charges. Considering what the power supply and drive cost on the aftermarket, and the fact that you can get them right away it's a minor risk for anyone capable of screwing together a simple PC.
I can't really imagine buying a new box. I have always bought lifetime activation boxes off eBay or refurbs with lifetime activation. Since we have two boxes paying a monthly bill on both wasn't interesting to me.
oc
I usually wait a few weeks before cracking it open. If it works fine until then, I'm pretty sure the Chinese put it together right. :D
According to TWC, they should have "Open CableCARDs" that support SDV and ondemand services available (the site mentions Q4 '07/Q1 '08 availability). Unfortunately the 411 on the Tivo site doesn't specify whether open cards are supported, just that an M card or 2 S cards are required for dual tuner (multi vs. uni stream). TWC's site mentions that OCC support varies by DVR. :irked: So the question is does the HD support open cards?
-Kevin
No. Nothing supports the "open cards" because they don't exist. The information on the TW web site is at least a year out of date.
What they're calling "open cards" is cable card 2.0. Cable card 1.0 is what TiVo supports (same as anyone one else). CC2.0 was supposed to be the two-way cable card that would enable Video on Demand (VOD), Pay-per-view (PPV) and stuff like that. That's what Consumer Electronics (CE) companies wanted. But cable didn't want that. They wanted OCAP which is a software system that would basically tie CE products to cable company software - big win for the consumer, right?
So the CE manufacturers fought and cable dragged its feet and they went 'round and 'round. Finally cable agreed that CE companies only had to use the OCAP software for the two-way part, like VOD and PPV - not everything else. CE manufacturers have agreed to support that so they renamed it "Tru2way" because that's so much more catchy.
Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony have said they'll support the standard, TiVo has expressed interest. Only Panasonic has announced plans for a product.
Speculation is that TiVo will have a "Series 4" product to work with Tru2Way but I would bet the quickest that would happen would be an announcement in January and a product late next year.
Which brings us back to "Doh!" The near term solution for Switched Digital Video (SDV) is the tuning resolver (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/sdv-tuning-adapters-in-the-flesh/) kludge expected by the end of the year. It will fix SDV but not PPV or On Demand.
cameraman
07-11-08, 02:59 AM
Are you talking about tv or nuclear reactor control systems?
:eek:
No. Nothing supports the "open cards" because they don't exist. The information on the TW web site is at least a year out of date.
What they're calling "open cards" is cable card 2.0 Cable card 1.0 is what TiVo supports (same as anyone one else). CC2.0 was supposed to be the two-way cable card that would enable VOD, PPV and stuff like that. That's what CE companies wanted. But cable didn't want that. They wanted OCAP which is a software system that would basically tie CE products to cable company software - big win for the consumer, right?
So the CE manufacturers fought and cable dragged its feet and they went 'round and 'round. Finally cable agreed that CE companies only had to use the OCAP software for the two-way part, like VOD and PPV - not everything else. CE manufacturers have agreed to support that so they renamed it "Tru2way" because that's so much more catchy.
Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony have said they'll support the standard, TiVo has expressed interest. Only Panasonic has announced plans for a product.
Speculation is that TiVo will have a "Series 4" product to work with Tru2Way but I would bet the quickest that would happen would be an announcement in January and a product late next year.
Which brings us back to "Doh!" The near term solution for SDV is the tuning resolver (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/sdv-tuning-adapters-in-the-flesh/) kludge expected by the end of the year. It will fix SDV but not PPV or On Demand.
Are you talking about tv or nuclear reactor control systems?
:eek:Well, the cable companies would like you to think so, anyway. :) Sorry, cleared up some of that alphabet soup.
No. Nothing supports the "open cards" because they don't exist. The information on the TW web site is at least a year out of date.
What they're calling "open cards" is cable card 2.0. Cable card 1.0 is what TiVo supports (same as anyone one else). CC2.0 was supposed to be the two-way cable card that would enable Video on Demand (VOD), Pay-per-view (PPV) and stuff like that. That's what Consumer Electronics (CE) companies wanted. But cable didn't want that. They wanted OCAP which is a software system that would basically tie CE products to cable company software - big win for the consumer, right?
So the CE manufacturers fought and cable dragged its feet and they went 'round and 'round. Finally cable agreed that CE companies only had to use the OCAP software for the two-way part, like VOD and PPV - not everything else. CE manufacturers have agreed to support that so they renamed it "Tru2way" because that's so much more catchy.
Panasonic, Samsung, and Sony have said they'll support the standard, TiVo has expressed interest. Only Panasonic has announced plans for a product.
Speculation is that TiVo will have a "Series 4" product to work with Tru2Way but I would bet the quickest that would happen would be an announcement in January and a product late next year.
Which brings us back to "Doh!" The near term solution for Switched Digital Video (SDV) is the tuning resolver (http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/sdv-tuning-adapters-in-the-flesh/) kludge expected by the end of the year. It will fix SDV but not PPV or On Demand.
And the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round...
Ya just gotta love this shizzle. :irked: There just isn't any such thing as future proof any way you slice it. :(
-Kevin
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