MO Foytility

[dando]

So to begin MO week, Aurie the lesser was here in Cbus driving local reporters around the city in a 2 seater and the car ended up overheating after one of the drives. :tony:

-Kevin

[Methanolandbrats]

So to begin MO week, Aurie the lesser was here in Cbus driving local reporters around the city in a 2 seater and the car ended up overheating after one of the drives. :tony:

-Kevin Sounds like a stuck thermostat :D

[SurfaceUnits]

They auctioned off a father and son full VIP pass for nashville and got a $24 winning bid. :laugh:

[gerhard911]

Sounds like somebody was feeling charitable and over paid :gomer:

[pchall]

16 14 Manning, Darren D/H/F Practice 2 01:08.9897 117.826 46


25 25 Roth, Marty D/H/F Practice 1 01:12.1395 112.682 71
26 23 Duno, Milka D/H/F Practice 2 01:13.0378 111.296 61

[cameraman]

Okay what do those tools in the IRL do to make their lap times so much slower than the ALMS times?
Does the IRL use the chicane before turn 2?

[gerhard911]

16 14 Manning, Darren D/H/F Practice 2 01:08.9897 117.826 46


25 25 Roth, Marty D/H/F Practice 1 01:12.1395 112.682 71
26 23 Duno, Milka D/H/F Practice 2 01:13.0378 111.296 61

Jeebus a spread of 4+ seconds from 16th to 26th (26 cars ? holy shizznit !) ? K-ryst, we are talking back of the grid here - WTF was it to #1 ? :eek:

You won't find a spread like that at any SCCA club race in any formula car group. Can somebody say 115% qualifying rule ? :tony:

[Methanolandbrats]

Jeebus a spread of 4+ seconds from 16th to 26th (26 cars ? holy shizznit !) ? K-ryst, we are talking back of the grid here - WTF was it to #1 ? :eek:

You won't find a spread like that at any SCCA club race in any formula car group. Can somebody say 115% qualifying rule ? :tony:

Hee, hee, this will be worth taping :D

[SurfaceUnits]

Okay what do those tools in the IRL do to make their lap times so much slower than the ALMS times?
Does the IRL use the chicane before turn 2?ALMS times include a full pit stop. Your OW sucks America!

[nissan gtp]

CART: Mid-Ohio starting grid

Date 2000-08-12

Pos Driver Nat Eng/Cha/Tires Time Gap To 1st Speed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Gil de Ferran BR Honda/RI/F 1:05.347 124.394
2. Helio Castroneves BR Honda/RI/F 1:05.362 0.015 0.015 124.366
3. Dario Franchitti SCO Honda/RI/F 1:05.665 0.303 0.318 123.792
4. Kenny Brack S Ford Cos/RI/F 1:05.806 0.141 0.459 123.527
5. Christian Fittipaldi BR Ford Cos/LT/F 1:05.962 0.156 0.615 123.235
6. Max Papis I Ford Cos/RI/F 1:06.047 0.085 0.700 123.076
7. Cristiano da Matta BR Toyota/RI/F 1:06.251 0.204 0.904 122.697
8. Michael Andretti USA Ford Cos/LT/F 1:06.338 0.087 0.991 122.536
9. Patrick Carpentier CDN Ford Cos/RI/F 1:06.391 0.053 1.044 122.438
10. Juan Montoya COL Toyota/LT/F 1:06.406 0.015 1.059 122.411

[cameraman]

Gil de Ferran is on the pole again but this time it is a 1:07.969.

Seriously are the running the same track configuration? And what is up with the IRL timing down to the 1/10000 of a second? They really think their gear is so accurate that a fourth decimal place has any validity (not to mention necessity in a field spread out over six seconds)?


1 Helio Castroneves (3) 1:07.5433
2 Scott Dixon (9) 1:07.7065
3 Hideki Mutoh (27) 1:07.9641
4 Buddy Rice (15) 1:08.1082
5 Oriol Servia (5) 1:08.1350
6 Bruno Junqueira (18) 1:08.2667
7 Danica Patrick (7) 1:08.3930
8 Graham Rahal (06) 1:08.5528
9 Ryan Briscoe (6) 1:08.7017
10 Enrique Bernoldi (36) 1:08.9295
11 Tony Kanaan (11) 1:08.9476
12 Ryan Hunter-Reay (17) 1:08.9484
13 E.J. Viso (33) 1:08.9618
14 Marco Andretti (26) 1:08.9681
15 Dan Wheldon (10) 1:09.0692
16 Mario Dominguez (96) 1:09.0909
17 Ed Carpenter (20) 1:09.1013
18 Will Power (8) 1:09.5458
19 Justin Wilson (02) 1:09.7126
20 Vitor Meira (4) 1:09.7648
21 Mario Moraes (19) 1:10.6244
22 A.J. Foyt IV (2) 1:10.9175
23 Darren Manning (14) 1:11.3633
24 Marty Roth (25) 1:11.7027
25 Jaime Camara (34) 1:12.0252
26 Milka Duno (23) 1:13.6887

[pchall]

A merged crapwagon/P1&P2 grid would look like this:

1. 26 Marco Andretti 1:07.9102
2. 66 P2 1 Gil de Ferran 1:07.969
3. 3 Helio Castroneves 1:08.1181
4. 9 P2 2 David Brabham 1:08.193
5. 6 Ryan Briscoe 1:08.2268
6. 7 P2 3 Timo Bernhard 1:08.238
7. 26 P2 4 Franck Montagny 1:08.320
8. 2 P1 1 Marco Werner 1:08.357
9. 11 Tony Kanaan 1:08.3840
10. 9 Scott Dixon 1:08.5034
11. 15 P2 5 Luis Diaz 1:08.507
12. 33 EJ Viso 1:08.5253
13. 15 Buddy Rice 1:08.6047
14. 7 Danica Patrick 1:08.6065
15. 06 Graham Rahal 1:08.6614
16. 17 Ryan Hunter-Reay 1:08.8302
17. 1 P1 2 Dindo Capello 1:08.960
18. 14 Darren Manning 1:08.9897
19. 4 Vitor Meira 1:09.0104
20. 10 Dan Wheldon 1:09.1057
21. 02 Justin Wilson 1:09.1298
22. 27 Hideki Mutoh 1:09.2789
23. 18 Bruno Junqueira 1:09.4189
24. 96 Mario Dominguez 1:09.5531
25. 8 Will Power 1:09.5642
26. 6 P2 6 Sascha Maassen 1:09.614
27. 5 Oriol Servia 1:09.6515
28. 36 Enrique Bernoldi 1:09.6637
29. 2 A.J. Foyt IV 1:09.8296
30. 16 P2 7 Chris Dyson 1:09.912
31. 20 P2 8 Butch Leitzinger 1:10.029
32. 34 Jaime Camara 1:10.1800
33. 20 Ed Carpenter 1:10.2246
34. 19 Mario Moraes 1:10.3337
35. 37 P1 3 Clint Field 1:11.053
36. 30 P1 4 Ryan Lewis 1:11.156
37. 23 Milka Duno 1:13.0378
38. 25 Marty Roth 1:13.1352

Crapwagons run at 1640 lb in road course trim with driver and fuel while the LMP2 are 825 kg (1815 lb) excluding driver and fuel. With the crapwagons developing an alleged 650 HP with their 3.5L NA Honda lump that is pretty damned sad running on the same track as a 540-60 HP air restricted 3.4L .

[pchall]

The official IRL track length is 2.258 miles. The last time I was there when the R-L-R complex to slow the cars down before T2 was used the track length was given as 2.4 miles. Looks like they are just going straight up the rise from T1 to T2, just like the ALMS cars do.


Gil de Ferran is on the pole again but this time it is a 1:07.969.

Seriously are the running the same track configuration?

[Don Quixote]

This is why we call them crapwaggons. I sure miss MO when real cars raced there.

[G.]

A merged crapwagon/P1&P2 grid would look like this:

1. 26 Marco Andretti 1:07.9102
2. 66 P2 1 Gil de Ferran 1:07.969
3. 3 Helio Castroneves 1:08.1181
4. 9 P2 2 David Brabham 1:08.193
5. 6 Ryan Briscoe 1:08.2268
6. 7 P2 3 Timo Bernhard 1:08.238
7. 26 P2 4 Franck Montagny 1:08.320
8. 2 P1 1 Marco Werner 1:08.357
9. 11 Tony Kanaan 1:08.3840
10. 9 Scott Dixon 1:08.5034
11. 15 P2 5 Luis Diaz 1:08.507
12. 33 EJ Viso 1:08.5253
13. 15 Buddy Rice 1:08.6047
14. 7 Danica Patrick 1:08.6065
15. 06 Graham Rahal 1:08.6614
16. 17 Ryan Hunter-Reay 1:08.8302
17. 1 P1 2 Dindo Capello 1:08.960
18. 14 Darren Manning 1:08.9897
19. 4 Vitor Meira 1:09.0104
20. 10 Dan Wheldon 1:09.1057
21. 02 Justin Wilson 1:09.1298
22. 27 Hideki Mutoh 1:09.2789
23. 18 Bruno Junqueira 1:09.4189
24. 96 Mario Dominguez 1:09.5531
25. 8 Will Power 1:09.5642
26. 6 P2 6 Sascha Maassen 1:09.614
27. 5 Oriol Servia 1:09.6515
28. 36 Enrique Bernoldi 1:09.6637
29. 2 A.J. Foyt IV 1:09.8296
30. 16 P2 7 Chris Dyson 1:09.912
31. 20 P2 8 Butch Leitzinger 1:10.029
32. 34 Jaime Camara 1:10.1800
33. 20 Ed Carpenter 1:10.2246
34. 19 Mario Moraes 1:10.3337
35. 37 P1 3 Clint Field 1:11.053
36. 30 P1 4 Ryan Lewis 1:11.156
37. 23 Milka Duno 1:13.0378
38. 25 Marty Roth 1:13.1352

Crapwagons run at 1640 lb in road course trim with driver and fuel while the LMP2 are 825 kg (1815 lb) excluding driver and fuel. With the crapwagons developing an alleged 650 HP with their 3.5L NA Honda lump that is pretty damned sad running on the same track as a 540-60 HP air restricted 3.4L .

That's beautiful!

Thanks!

[pchall]

AP wire story cut from the Internaltional Herald Tribune (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/07/19/sports/CAR-IRL-Mid-Ohio-Notebook.php)


After getting out of her car, Patrick quickly walked to where Milka Duno, the only other woman racing here this weekend, was pitted and confronted the less experienced driver about getting in her way several times during the practice.

The confrontation lasted only about a minute, but witnesses said it grew heated and that Duno flung a towel in Patrick's direction at one point as the two exchanged words. Patrick eventually stomped away.

Patrick, who has previously confronted fellow drivers Dan Wheldon and Ryan Briscoe after racing incidents, brushed off the latest dustup, saying, "I just wanted to know if she saw me out there."

Duno was not immediately available for comment.

Things didn't get better for Patrick after the confrontation.

She failed to get past the first of three rounds in the knockout-style time trials and will start 20th on the 26-car grid in Sunday's race. Duno qualified last.

[Insomniac]

Looks like they found some speed:


Position Class Speed Team/Driver
1 CWAG 120.878 Helio Castroneves
2 CWAG 120.846 Ryan Briscoe
3 CWAG 120.586 Marco Andretti
4 CWAG 120.348 Justin Wilson
5 CWAG 120.293 Tony Kanaan
6 CWAG 120.261 Scott Dixon
7 CWAG 119.973 Buddy Rice
8 CWAG 119.815 Oriol Servia
9 CWAG 119.772 Bruno Junqueira
10 CWAG 119.712 Hideki Mutoh
11 LMP2 119.596 DE FERRAN MOTORSPORTSGil de Ferran/Simon Pagenaud
12 CWAG 119.535 Vitor Meira
13 CWAG 119.461 Graham Rahal
14 CWAG 119.422 Will Power
15 CWAG 119.411 Mario Dominguez
16 LMP2 119.203 PATRÓN HIGHCROFT RACINGDavid Brabham/Scott Sharp
17 LMP2 119.124 PENSKE RACINGTimo Bernhard/Romain Dumas
18 CWAG 119.078 Enrique Bernoldi
19 LMP2 118.981 ANDRETTI GREEN RACINGFranck Montagny/Marco Andretti
20 CWAG 118.950 Dan Wheldon
21 CWAG 118.939 Ryan Hunter-Reay
22 LMP1 118.917 AUDI SPORT NORTH AMERICALucas Luhr/Marco Werner
23 CWAG 118.910 Danica Patrick
24 CWAG 118.726 E.J. Viso
25 LMP2 118.656 LOWE'S FERNANDEZ RACINGAdrian Fernandez/Luis Diaz
26 CWAG 118.568 Mario Moraes
27 LMP1 117.877 AUDI SPORT NORTH AMERICADindo Capello/Emanuele Pirro
28 CWAG 117.756 Ed Carpenter
29 CWAG 117.543 Darren Manning
30 CWAG 117.196 A.J. Foyt IV
31 LMP2 116.770 PENSKE RACINGPatrick Long/Sascha Maassen
32 LMP2 116.272 DYSON RACINGChris Dyson/Guy Smith
33 LMP2 116.078 DYSON RACINGMarino Franchitti/Butch Leitzinger
34 CWAG 115.284 Jaime Camara
35 CWAG 114.629 Marty Roth
36 LMP1 114.405 INTERSPORT RACINGClint Field/Jon Field/Richard Berry
37 LMP1 114.239 INTERSPORT RACINGRyan Lewis/John Faulkner
38 CWAG 112.477 Milka Duno
39 LMP1 106.515 AUTOCON MOTORSPORTSChris McMurry/Bryan Willman


Marco outqualified Danica twice (maybe, I don't know who/how qualifying works there). :D

[cameraman]

Marco outqualified Danica twice (maybe, I don't know who/how qualifying works there). :D They have been listing Micro as driving in the ALMS race all weekend. Why they couldn't update it:shakehead:shakehead

[pchall]

WTF with the qualification times not matching the starting positions?



1. Helio Castroneves Penske 1m 07.2480s 120.878mph
...
20. Danica Patrick AGR 1m 08.3609s 118.910mph
21. Darren Manning Foyt 1m 09.1560s 117.543mph
22. Ed Carpenter Vision 1m 09.0310s 117.756mph
23. AJ Foyt IV Vision 1m 09.3607s 117.196mph
24. Marty Roth Roth 1m 10.9141s 114.629mph
25. Jaime Camara Conquest 1m 10.5110s 115.284mph
26. Milka Duno Dreyer & Reinbold 1m 12.2709s 112.477mph


Nice tight grouping there for the Futility Gang.

[Methanolandbrats]

I really want to watch this cluster**** because the last one was excellent comedy.:thumbup: No way to record more than two races however :(

[trish]

What other race is on?

[High Sided]

What other race is on?

f1 on fox
alms on nbc

http://www.racefantv.com/USTV.htm

[trish]

I'm watching F1 now. I don't particularly care for sports car racing, but I might watch it.

And...am I the only one who didn't know that Moto GP was at Laguna Seca today? It will be on CBS at 5 PM ET.

[dando]

Fair chance of rain today, so let's hope for some fun in the wet. :gomer: There's a thorm just west of the Mansfield area now. :D

-Kevin

[KaBoom21]

Danica/Milka video clip was sweet. The Princess looked like a fool.

[Methanolandbrats]

Danica/Milka video clip was sweet. The Princess looked like a fool. She sure is a whiney bitch, somebody is gonna slap her.:thumbup:

[Accipiter]

My favorite part of the broadcast besides the cat fight video was when Scott Dixon complained over the radio about the crash that happened behind him on the restart questioning the intelligence of the drivers involved. Then a few minutes later with absolutely no acknowledgment of the irony, ABC showed his spin under caution from Watkins Glen. :laugh:

[Methanolandbrats]

I taped that crap and watched a little. Never again. I'm so tired of hearing about "transfer drivers", "transition drivers", blah, blah, blah.......Goodyear, you are an f'n idiot, a total kneepad wearing tool. Arute is a crazy assed cheerleader who looks like he huffs. **** all you guys, the cars are junk and "transition drivers"?....huh, WTF. You aholes had Milka, Danica, IV, Roth, Tony's Kin and a bunch of other dicks. Give me a shake when this nightmare ends, if it ever does. :yuck:

[grungex]

I thought the NASCAR hippos look slow on a road course, but jeebus. Way to ruin one of my favorite tracks... :thumdown:

[Cam]

I thought the NASCAR hippos look slow on a road course, but jeebus. Way to ruin one of my favorite tracks... :thumdown:

Wait till they hit RA. :cry:

[Andrew Longman]

I loved the BIG announcement that PT would race ONE race for the boss at Vision and fan favorite would race two whole races

And finally, Brian Herta has been hired by Vision as a road course consultant!!! Yippee!

Great track. Pig cars. Also seemed that unless the car in front of you was Roth, Milka, Carpenter, etc., it was darn har to pass with those cars/downforce. Wilson had a bitch of a time getting around Danica late in the race.

[TKGAngel]

Great track. Pig cars. Also seemed that unless the car in front of you was Roth, Milka, Carpenter, etc., it was darn har to pass with those cars/downforce. Wilson had a bitch of a time getting around Danica late in the race.

I thought that Danica was borderline blocking Wilson during those passing attempts.

I also liked Graham's helmet for the weekend. That should bring in a pretty penny for the Hole In The Wall. I just hope that labeling it as a tribute to PLN isn't a sign of something else. Spec about PLN's health again popped up in the mainstream media this past week.

[patski]

Wait till they hit RA. :cry:

Hopefully that never happens!

[Methanolandbrats]

Hopefully that never happens! Probably will next year as another ALMS and ****box double header.

[Don Quixote]

One of my OH buddies told me that the in-car telemetry during the broadcast showed the cars reaching a max of 160 mph on the main straight. Are you kidding me? Did anyone else see that? Those are San Jose speeds. :gomer:

[dando]

One of my OH buddies told me that the in-car telemetry during the broadcast showed the cars reaching a max of 160 mph on the main straight. Are you kidding me? Did anyone else see that? Those are San Jose speeds. :gomer:

The bit I caught showed 168. Goodyear claimed 170 when someone went off there. IIRC, the speeds used to top 180 when the real cars raced @ MO. :irked:

-Kevin

[Don Quixote]

The bit I caught showed 168. Goodyear claimed 170 when someone went off there. IIRC, the speeds used to top 180 when the real cars raced @ MO. :irked -Kevin
I thought they were pushing 200 in the 950 HP days. Those IRL sleds looked slower than three-toed sloths.

[dando]

I thought they were pushing 200 in the 950 HP days. Those IRL sleds looked slower than three-toed sloths.

No offense to three-toes sloths intended. :) Yes, them things looked plenty crappy, as did the stands from the overhead shots I saw. Cripes, I remember being there circa '98/'99 and the infield around the esses was packed as were the stands. :(

-Kevin

[Elmo T]

I was there for the weekend, and the IRL cars do look slow (and sound bad - I'll save that for another thread). The first thing that comes to mind - and maybe only the race fans would get - is that the cars seem to lack a sense of urgency around the track.

They brake appraching the turn, roll in, and accelerate away - but not spirited. The braking isn't that "they will never make the turn" braking. They droned out of Thunder Valley. They only place they looked fast was at the final exit of The Esses - with a quick change of direction.


Now Milka was even slower than the slow. I'd swear she was on a cool down lap, but she come past again and again :shakehead . On the scanner, the corner workers were constantly complaining about #23 ignoring blue flags. And her approach into the pits. And blocking the line.

[Sean Malone]

I taped that crap and watched a little. Never again. I'm so tired of hearing about "transfer drivers", "transition drivers", blah, blah, blah.......Goodyear, you are an f'n idiot, a total kneepad wearing tool. Arute is a crazy assed cheerleader who looks like he huffs. **** all you guys, the cars are junk and "transition drivers"?....huh, WTF. You aholes had Milka, Danica, IV, Roth, Tony's Kin and a bunch of other dicks. Give me a shake when this nightmare ends, if it ever does. :yuck:

Goodyear is now equal to Tony George in my book. I despise him.

[Sean Malone]

I was there for the weekend, and the IRL cars do look slow (and sound bad - I'll save that for another thread). The first thing that comes to mind - and maybe only the race fans would get - is that the cars seem to lack a sense of urgency around the track.

They brake appraching the turn, roll in, and accelerate away - but not spirited. The braking isn't that "they will never make the turn" braking. They droned out of Thunder Valley. They only place they looked fast was at the final exit of The Esses - with a quick change of direction.


.

Same thing I said about the St Pete race I went to this year (my first IRL race). It's the damn down force. It takes them longer to get up to speed because of it.
Comments made from teh CC guys is that they can't push these cars. They are what they are, if you push too hard you're around and done. That is why there isn't any building of pace as the race progresses. In the CART days you could just 'feel' the lap times diminish with 20 laps to go. With the crapwagons, they are what they are. A lot like the Briggs and Stratton go-karts at the local kiddie track. Floor it and turn.
If they ever have the balls to bring a real car back into the fold, half the current drivers won't be there.

[JohnHKart]

You can never watch any racing after F1, especially these joker crapwagons. An awful race. God they are slow, have no downforce and can't even stick to the track on that one right hander. I ended up watching the NHRA instead , that is faster. I pray for 2011 and better engines and cars...it seems like a million years away.

John

[Racing Truth]

You can never watch any racing after F1, especially these joker crapwagons. An awful race. God they are slow, have no downforce and can't even stick to the track on that one right hander. I ended up watching the NHRA instead , that is faster. I pray for 2011 and better engines and cars...it seems like a million years away.

John

Agree with most here, but don't you mean too MUCH downforce?

[Andrew Longman]

Agree with most here, but don't you mean too MUCH downforce?

I am not en engineer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I think these cars have too much downforce for ovals and not enough HP for road courses. They can't push through the drag the downforce creates. They can't run fast enough in medium speed turns to create sufficient downforce. They don't have enough mechanical grip to run fast through the slow corners. And they use so much wing, they can't follow closely behind.

Does that sound crazy to you more technically talented people?

None of that can or will be fixed before 2011 and that's when I might (emphasis might) attend my next Indy style race. I used to go to 3-4 a year.

[JohnHKart]

yeah I think I have it wrong...they just cant seem to stick to the track though. Champ Cars never spun out in that corner like that. And as for Goodyear....can't stand him. He still says stupid stuff like "we call this the keyhole". People hate Cheever, but he would be great on the broadcast...I always enjoyed him on tv, at least he doesnt have Goodyearisms like the hated "we call" . I don't know what happened to Goodyear, when I was on cruise ships and caught him on Espn intl doing CART broadcasts in 1995 he was really good. It must have been years of IRL driving that fried his brain. Or maybe I was so into racing then at age 28 that I didn't know any better.

John

[dando]

I am not en engineer and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I did recently learn how to embed a video into a post. I think these cars have too much downforce for ovals and not enough HP for road courses. They can't push through the drag the downforce creates. They can't run fast enough in medium speed turns to create sufficient downforce. They don't have enough mechanical grip to run fast through the slow corners. And they use so much wing, they can't follow closely behind.

Does that sound crazy to you more technically talented people?

None of that can or will be fixed before 2011 and that's when I might (emphasis might) attend my next Indy style race. I used to go to 3-4 a year.

Fixerated dat post fer ya. :gomer:

Your summary is pretty much spot on about the issues with the crappies on roadies. I also think the gully washer that hit the track before the race Sun took off some of the rubber and made the track a tad slick in spots. Anyone know if they had issues like that last year @ MO (I couldn't bring myself to watch)?

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

They don't have enough mechanical grip to run fast through the slow corners.
All the evidence points that way. Lack of mechanical grip with a barn door aero approach so if you lose the aero for a moment you go spinning.

Elmo's observations about the lack of ability to change direction quickly and Sean's comments about St. Pete also point to lack of mechanical grip as well. I've only seen them on the coverage on Speed Report, but even on ovals they look like they just don't have any mechanical grip. The top teams have managed to come to grips with it to the degree possible but everyone else is like a rabbit on ice when the barn door stops working.

People seem to be pinning their hopes on 2011 but seem to ignore the fact that the same geniuses responsible for the current sled are still on the job. Different results from the same management team is not something I've come to expect.

oc

[Elmo T]

a barn door aero approach so if you lose the aero for a moment you go spinning.



I didn't stop to take any photos, but you really have to see the wings up close to get a feel for these things. There are multiple verticle planes - these things are giant.

[dando]

People seem to be pinning their hopes on 2011 but seem to ignore the fact that the same geniuses responsible for the current sled are still on the job. Different results from the same management team is not something I've come to expect.

oc

Our only hope is Cotman. :(

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

I didn't stop to take any photos, but you really have to see the wings up close to get a feel for these things. There are multiple verticle planes - these things are giant.
Needs more cow catcher....:tony:

oc

[Ziggy]

The biggest problem with the new car is two fold.

If the crowd comes back, and racing is profitable, then a new car is not needed. Tony has already spend a large wharehouse full of money propping this deal up.

and if it does not come back...... why spend more?

does the term "painted into a corner" come to mind?

I do believe they are shopping the rule package around with designs on whomever steps up can call the shots on the car as well.

[eiregosod]

People seem to be pinning their hopes on 2011 but seem to ignore the fact that the same geniuses responsible for the current sled are still on the job. Different results from the same management team is not something I've come to expect.

oc

sounds like pinning the hopes on the DP01.

[patski]

sounds like pinning the hopes on the DP01.

The DP01 was a good car that did everything it was expected to do. It was NOT the problem.

[Sean Malone]

All the evidence points that way. Lack of mechanical grip with a barn door aero approach so if you lose the aero for a moment you go spinning.

Elmo's observations about the lack of ability to change direction quickly and Sean's comments about St. Pete also point to lack of mechanical grip as well. I've only seen them on the coverage on Speed Report, but even on ovals they look like they just don't have any mechanical grip. The top teams have managed to come to grips with it to the degree possible but everyone else is like a rabbit on ice when the barn door stops working.

People seem to be pinning their hopes on 2011 but seem to ignore the fact that the same geniuses responsible for the current sled are still on the job. Different results from the same management team is not something I've come to expect.

oc

Which explains why when an IndyCar loses it's rear wing it instantly does a 180. It is completely dependent on the barndoor wings to keep it planted. Of course, we've all seen the same occur on F1 cars, but I've also seen wing failures in F1 that don't cause inevitable instant reversal of direction due to their mechanical grip.

[G.]

The biggest problem with the new car is two fold.

If the crowd comes back, and racing is profitable, then a new car is not needed. Tony has already spend a large wharehouse full of money propping this deal up.

and if it does not come back...... why spend more?

does the term "painted into a corner" come to mind?

I do believe they are shopping the rule package around with designs on whomever steps up can call the shots on the car as well.

The crowd will NEVER come back with the current ****boxes.

The question is, will the BrainTrust figure that out.

[G.]

Which explains why when an IndyCar loses it's rear wing it instantly does a 180. It is completely dependent on the barndoor wings to keep it planted. Of course, we've all seen the same occur on F1 cars, but I've also seen wing failures in F1 that don't cause inevitable instant reversal of direction due to their mechanical grip.

No question the cars are crap, but let's not forget Katherine Legge, Road America 2006.

[Sean Malone]

No question the cars are crap, but let's not forget Katherine Legge, Road America 2006.

Right. All open wheel winged cars are dependent on the down force in order to stay planted, that's the purpose. Katherine was doing 180mph around a corner so those pesty laws of physics come into play.