KERS accident fells BMW crewman

[oddlycalm]

Carbon fiber is a excellent conductor of electricity. Good thing they weren't trying to attach the refueling rig...:eek: Looks like there are going to be a lot of KERS related safety issues. It's all part of Max's brilliant cost curtailment strategy, right. :shakehead

BMW mechanic escapes KERS scare (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69391)

oc

[Ankf00]

"Oi, where's the ground?"

"What?"

"The ground, which conductor is it?"

"Oh, I dunno."

*zap*

"Ah, found it, did you?"

[cameraman]

And as an added benefit F1 KERS systems have absolutely no relationship to any KERS system found in road cars. Gotta love the way your plans come together Max:rolleyes::shakehead:irked:

[emjaya]

I missed this. Red Bull have had problems too. Link. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69199)


A fire scare that occurred in Red Bull Racing's factory on Wednesday was triggered by a battery failure in the team's new Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS), autosport.com has learned, but team principal Christian Horner insists there was never any danger to the team's staff.

The local fire brigade was called out and the factory evacuated after a controlled test of the new battery caused the system to malfunction.



The positioning of the battery in the car and the methods used to protect it through high-G impacts are key to the implementation of this. Some teams believe the safest way to do this is to place the battery directly underneath the heavily insulated fuel cell.

When I worked for the tyre company we would have a battery explode every now and again, mostly from mis-handling. Putting one under a fuel tank seems to be asking for trouble.

[Ziggy]

Wouldn't it be better if they just made all the cars rubberband and flywheel powered?

Think of all the bearing manufactures that would jump on board? :D

[Methanolandbrats]

Stupid f'n idea. Racing does not have to be relevant to road cars. All this green bullsheet making it's way into racing makes me puke. Racing uses so little fuel it is irrelevant to Global usage. Racing is about lapping as quickly as possible with the money you have available, that's it.

[Sean Malone]

Stupid f'n idea. Racing does not have to be relevant to road cars. All this green bullsheet making it's way into racing makes me puke. Racing uses so little fuel it is irrelevant to Global usage. Racing is about lapping as quickly as possible with the money you have available, that's it.

Yep. And what they do burn burns pretty clean if I recall. 100 years from now when every drop of dino DNA has been squeezed for gasoline they''ll be something to burn inside a internal combustion engine. Imagine electric cars racing. I'd rather knit.

[G.]

Stupid f'n idea. Racing does not have to be relevant to road cars. All this green bullsheet making it's way into racing makes me puke. Racing uses so little fuel it is irrelevant to Global usage. Racing is about lapping as quickly as possible with the money you have available, that's it.
They're just trying to make it relevant to the armchair spectator. To the world and the Greenies.

Your last 2 sentences are, of course, very true.

I wouldn't mind seeing a race Leegue try to be more Green.

As long as it's FAST!

(sorry about the GI issues. Get well. ;) )

[chop456]

Max is a worthless meatbag? Who knew?

[Ziggy]

I think the rule makers are overlooking their biggest ally, gravity

Just think, all the courses in the world just need a little more "downhill" sections and they could get rid of those pesky motors all together :rofl:

[Al Czervik]

I think the rule makers are overlooking their biggest ally, gravity

Just think, all the courses in the world just need a little more "downhill" sections and they could get rid of those pesky motors all together :rofl:

http://www.aasbd.com/

Max could screw that up, too. Probably let Ferrari have a steeper hill, or some such nonsense.

[Methanolandbrats]

It was'nt relevant to a trip to the grocery store, but I miss toxic qualifying fuels and qualifying lumps that lasted a couple laps :D

[oddlycalm]

It was'nt relevant to a trip to the grocery store, but I miss toxic qualifying fuels and qualifying lumps that lasted a couple laps :D
Absolutely, best F1 era ever. To appropriate a comment from another subject, if racing isn't nasty it means you aren't doing it right.

Also, I don't want the either championship to be decided on the basis of which team has the best wind-up toy. For example, if KERS catapults a team to the front of the grid in cars that were previously dogs I can't imagine anyone being very happy about it. That, and the attendant expense of all this cost saving, may be enough to make another manufacturer pull out.

oc

[Ankf00]

if they want to go "green" all they need to do is limit fuel supply. let the teams approach that how they will

[cameraman]

For example, if KERS catapults a team to the front of the grid in cars that were previously dogs I can't imagine anyone being very happy about it.
oc

Why not? If Red Bull comes up with an recovery method that is lighter and more efficient so their cars ends up faster what the hell is wrong with that? Whomever builds the fastest car wins.

[Methanolandbrats]

Why not? If Red Bull comes up with an recovery method that is lighter and more efficient so their cars ends up faster what the hell is wrong with that? Whomever builds the fastest car wins.

For the same reason I would not buy tickets to the Prius Cup Series.

[cameraman]

So if the "Prius Cup" F1 cars run the same or faster lap times than the current cars you won't watch if the McLaren doesn't end up faster than the Red Bull?

So why are you watching this year with "frozen" engines?

[Methanolandbrats]

So if the "Prius Cup" F1 cars run the same or faster lap times than the current cars you won't watch if the McLaren doesn't end up faster than the Red Bull?

So why are you watching this year with "frozen" engines? Cause it's the best racing there is even with caps. I don't want a move away from internal combustion and it's glorious sounds. Hell, even if there were no fossil fuels left racing could make synthetic fuel to power a 1000 hp V12 that would make your ears bleed two blocks away :thumbup:

[cameraman]

Well I think Mosley is an idiot and I think it is an incredible waste time & money but if they have a set of rules and one of the currently slower teams happens to manage to build a faster car than one of the big teams, well I just can't see any problem with that.

[Methanolandbrats]

Well I think Mosley is an idiot and I think it is an incredible waste time & money but if they have a set of rules and one of the currently slower teams happens to manage to build a faster car than one of the big teams, well I just can't see any problem with that.
Ya, as long as it is a small part of the package it's ok unless it leads to a lot of problems and retirements for no good reason.

[meadors]

Carbon fiber is a excellent conductor of electricity.

BMW mechanic escapes KERS scare (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69391)

oc

Are you serious? I thought carbon fiber would be non conductive.

[oddlycalm]

Are you serious? I thought carbon fiber would be non conductive.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Remember those carbon electrodes in chemistry class...?

product blurb - look under key benefits (http://www.sglcarbon.com/sgl_t/fibers/sigra_c.html)

There are people messing with carbon fiber to make all kinds of materials conductive from vinyls to reinforced concrete that will ground an entire structure in the event of lightning strikes.

oc

[oddlycalm]

Well I think Mosley is an idiot and I think it is an incredible waste time & money but if they have a set of rules and one of the currently slower teams happens to manage to build a faster car than one of the big teams, well I just can't see any problem with that.
I know we agree that Max is an idiot and KERS being a waste of resources. The reason I posted that comment was that from my admittedly biased point of view I would not like to see dominance by Honda or Toyoda if it caused other major teams to depart.

These are massive companies that are each part of a keiretsu of cooperative companies. They have access to limitless money and technologies that are not commercially available. None of that matters as long as it's straight internal combustion engines and chassis, but if a propulsion augmentation system is used that gave them a massive advantage due to there size an access I don't think I'd be alone in my feelings.

With me it's not xenophobia, it's a professional lifetime of dealing with them and seeing these companies squash everything they come in contact with. I don't want F1 added to that list.

oc

[G.]

Are you serious? I thought carbon fiber would be non conductive.Sort of.

In some forms (graphite) it a pretty good conductor. Diamonds are pretty good insulators, however.

It is actually used to make resistors, which are conductive, but not greatly so.

In CART we used to put stick-on copper sheets on the underside of the body under the antennas to give the antenna a better ground plane. That carbon fiber wasn't so good at conduction. The copper helped give the antenna a better defined field pattern (like it was supposed to have).

[oddlycalm]

It is actually used to make resistors, which are conductive, but not greatly so.

In CART we used to put stick-on copper sheets on the underside of the body under the antennas to give the antenna a better ground plane. That carbon fiber wasn't so good at conduction. The copper helped give the antenna a better defined field pattern (like it was supposed to have).
Wow, carbon comp resistors, that takes me back a few decades G., that's what my old tweed Fender amps had in the 1950's. :gomer:

So it seems like either the carbon fiber in the BMW is a lot more conductive than the Lola and Reynards were or the amount of current passing through it was huge as it knocked the mechanic off his feet, and he was taken to the hospital when he continued to have trouble later. Obvious he got a good jolt.

oc

[Ankf00]

Are you serious? I thought carbon fiber would be non conductive.

carbon, serious business. :gomer:

[G.]

carbon, serious business. :gomer:

http://dietrichthrall.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/dark-knight-why-so-serious1.jpg

[Andrew Longman]

OK I'm still not a scientist or engineer, but can CF hold a static charge on the surface, rather than conduct electricity? I believe rubber and glass can hold a charge quite well while waiting for something to ground it to discharge.