Firl TV shopping

[G.]

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/59646


Potential IRL TV partners want Indy only
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By JOHN OURAND and TERRY LEFTON
Staff writers
Published July 28, 2008 : Page 04

Conventional wisdom was that a unified open-wheel racing series would result in a more valuable media property. But five months after the IRL and Champ Car joined together, the series is seeing what has been its biggest asset — media rights — struggling to maintain value.

Both incumbent partner ABC/ESPN and suitor Fox Sports have told the circuit that they are interested in broadcasting only the Indianapolis 500. But the IRL is trying to sell a package that includes at least four other races for broadcast as well.

:laugh: :laugh:

SucKaGE AmplIfEyED

[Chief]

TONY GEORGE.....The entity known as the "IRL" needs to be terminated before AOW can survive. It's associated with the plague that you have wraught upon this sport. You bought a bag of poo my friend and now the sport rests on your incapable shoulders. KILL the IRL now, this is why the NETWORKS don't want you any more:

Potential IRL TV partners want Indy only (http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/59646)

Conventional wisdom was that a unified open-wheel racing series would result in a more valuable media property. But five months after the IRL and Champ Car joined together, the series is seeing what has been its biggest asset — media rights — struggling to maintain value.

Both incumbent partner ABC/ESPN and suitor Fox Sports have told the circuit that they are interested in broadcasting only the Indianapolis 500. But the IRL is trying to sell a package that includes at least four other races for broadcast as well.

ESPN and Fox also have told the IRL that they would not pay the same rights fee that the IRL now gets from the Disney companies, about $10 million a year.

ESPN holds the rights for next year, but has given the IRL the green light to shop them. ESPN executives say they lose money on the deal, which has ABC broadcasting six races in addition to the Indianapolis 500, with the rest of the 17-race series going to ESPN or ESPN2.

[Racing Truth]

Wow, just wow.:shakehead

Versus?:yuck::laugh:

:sigh: What a joke.

[dando]

:laugh: :tony: :saywhat:

All your base are belong to us.

:gomer:

:shakehead

-Kevin

[TKGAngel]

Wow, just wow.:shakehead

Versus?:yuck::laugh:

:sigh: What a joke.

After seeing what Versus does to hockey, I can only imagine what they would do to racing.

I wonder if the IRL sees a lower tier broadcast contract as a positive thing that would encourage purchases of their Race Director clone?

[SurfaceUnits]

hahaha title sponsor for the price it costs penske to run one car at mindy :rofl:

[SurfaceUnits]

5P6UU6m3cqk

[KLang]

They will be buying TV time for the non-mindy schedule just like Champ Car was doing. :laugh:

What exactly did the capitulation accomplish beside driving fans like me away from the sport?:irked:

[cameraman]

After seeing what Versus does to hockey, I can only imagine what they would do to racing.The Tour de France coverage on Versus is excellent, it was the re-edited summary shows on CBS that were horrible. It will depend on the producers, the bicycle producers clearly know bike racing.

[Chief]

DIRECTTV! Its the answer to every problem.:rofl:

[Elmo T]

What exactly did the capitulation accomplish beside driving fans like me away from the sport?:irked:

Didn't they save American Open Wheel racing, more importantly oval racing, provided an opportunity for the open wheel drivers of American to reach the pinnacle of motorsports, The Indy 500?

[dando]

After seeing what Versus does to hockey, I can only imagine what they would do to racing.

I rather quite enjoyed the CBC coverage during the playoffs. :) ;)

-Kevin

[nrc]

New package: Indy tape delayed Sunday night. Everything else gets 15 minute segments a week later on Wide World of Sports. The cycle is complete. Someone call Dan Gurney.

[Elmo T]

Someone call Dan Gurney.

Do we get Jackie Stewart back too?

[miatanut]

New package: Indy tape delayed Sunday night. Everything else gets 15 minute segments a week later on Wide World of Sports. The cycle is complete. Someone call Dan Gurney.

Their aim was a little off. Back then there was more than one chassis, often something that wasn't an Offy in the field, and some of the cars had Goodyears on them.

I don't think it was intentional, but they've brought us the bad things about the USAC days without any of the good things.

[Gnam]

:thumbup: to SurfaceUnits :laugh:

All races straight to DVD? My viewing will be enhanced. :gomer:

[miatanut]

Didn't they save American Open Wheel racing, more importantly oval racing, provided an opportunity for the open wheel drivers of American to reach the pinnacle of motorsports, The Indy 500?

Bah! That was just talk.

It was REALLY about saving Indy. As in a schedule of weak races that nobody cares about and standing dominantly above them, The Only Race That Really Matters (TM).

Mission accomplished.

Much more important than selling a million tickets in a season.

[pchall]

Ackkk! Worst commentator ever!

Only Jim McKay's talent could cover up his idiocy.


Do we get Jackie Stewart back too?

[eiregosod]

makes me wonder what the ABC braintrust was reading when they compared the 2007 Champcar and EARL TV numbers. OK, Champcar's was about a 0.2 point lower than most of the EARL's, someone in the ABC must have said that what we're paying an extra $10m for these 200k viewers on top the amount we'e getting from KK to show the Champcar races!

[oddlycalm]

Why not run the entire season at the IMS? Baseball teams play lots of home games and nobody bats an eye. Hold two races a month there from May through September and call it good. Why even bother to run in front of empty seats at nothing tracks like Richmond? Just stay in Indy all season and save the travel costs.

Oh, and US drivers only. No US passport, no racing. And only US drivers and teams who agree to kiss the bricks and show deference at all times to everything Indy and never race anywhere else. Maybe a small chapel in the pagoda where drivers, team personnel and owners can reaffirm their Indy only convictions. Because Indy is great, but that greatness is not strong enough to stand on it's own, it has to be reaffirmed on a regular basis so fans with personality disorders don't feel threatened.

There should be an Indy ring and an official Indy bird and flower, with licensing rights of course. And there should be an official Indy tune, not a whole song but just a nice little arpeggio that would immediately mean Indy to anyone that heard it. "Back Home In Indiana" is the official anthem of course, Jim Nabors the official singer, and milk the official beverage. It should be the only beverage served at the track.

When we get back to the Indy fundamentals it will be time to get rid of the evile formula cars introduced by the foreign heretics. Roadsters will once again take their place with engines in front as the creator intended. Cars with fenders will be banished from the IMS, never to return, and it will once again become pristine and those that defile it will be gone.

:tony:

oc

[FCYTravis]

Wow, Versus?

That network probably doesn't have any more reach than SPEED did back when Pook took CART over there in 2003, and we know how much derision that sparked from the Defenders and indycools of the world.

Funny, how all these things come full circle.

'Twas all lies, nothing but lies...

[miatanut]

Why not run the entire season at the IMS? Baseball teams play lots of home games and nobody bats an eye. Hold two races a month there from May through September and call it good. Why even bother to run in front of empty seats at nothing tracks like Richmond? Just stay in Indy all season and save the travel costs.

Oh, and US drivers only. No US passport, no racing. And only US drivers and teams who agree to kiss the bricks and show deference at all times to everything Indy and never race anywhere else. Maybe a small chapel in the pagoda where drivers, team personnel and owners can reaffirm their Indy only convictions. Because Indy is great, but that greatness is not strong enough to stand on it's own, it has to be reaffirmed on a regular basis so fans with personality disorders don't feel threatened.

There should be an Indy ring and an official Indy bird and flower, with licensing rights of course. And there should be an official Indy tune, not a whole song but just a nice little arpeggio that would immediately mean Indy to anyone that heard it. "Back Home In Indiana" is the official anthem of course, Jim Nabors the official singer, and milk the official beverage. It should be the only beverage served at the track.

When we get back to the Indy fundamentals it will be time to get rid of the evile formula cars introduced by the foreign heretics. Roadsters will once again take their place with engines in front as the creator intended. Cars with fenders will be banished from the IMS, never to return, and it will once again become pristine and those that defile it will be gone.

:tony:

oc
:thumbup:

[Sean Malone]

Why not run the entire season at the IMS? Baseball teams play lots of home games and nobody bats an eye. Hold two races a month there from May through September and call it good. Why even bother to run in front of empty seats at nothing tracks like Richmond? Just stay in Indy all season and save the travel costs.



:tony:

oc

Sarcasm aside that's not a half bad idea. Even the 800lb gorilla plays twice at every venue. Run the full oval for the 500, and a few different road course layouts.

[SurfaceUnits]

even a broke clock is right twice a day

[DagoFast]

Sarcasm aside that's not a half bad idea. Even the 800lb gorilla plays twice at every venue. Run the full oval for the 500, and a few different road course layouts.

Gasp! Road race at the famous oval! Burn Him!

The perfect :gomer:gomer:gomer: schedule:

First weekend in April: Indy 100
Second weekend in April: Indy 200
Third weekend in April: Indy 300
Forth weekend in April: Indy 400

Month of May: Indy 500

June 15: Indy 400

July 4th: Indy 300

July 20: Indy 200

Aug 5 Indy 100

Aug 6th Season Banquet
Aug 7th: Turn out the lights until April 1.

[Chaos]

"It's all about Indy" indeed.

[JLMannin]

Why not run the entire season at the IMS? Baseball teams play lots of home games and nobody bats an eye. Hold two races a month there from May through September and call it good. Why even bother to run in front of empty seats at nothing tracks like Richmond? Just stay in Indy all season and save the travel costs.

Oh, and US drivers only. No US passport, no racing. And only US drivers and teams who agree to kiss the bricks and show deference at all times to everything Indy and never race anywhere else. Maybe a small chapel in the pagoda where drivers, team personnel and owners can reaffirm their Indy only convictions. Because Indy is great, but that greatness is not strong enough to stand on it's own, it has to be reaffirmed on a regular basis so fans with personality disorders don't feel threatened.

There should be an Indy ring and an official Indy bird and flower, with licensing rights of course. And there should be an official Indy tune, not a whole song but just a nice little arpeggio that would immediately mean Indy to anyone that heard it. "Back Home In Indiana" is the official anthem of course, Jim Nabors the official singer, and milk the official beverage. It should be the only beverage served at the track.

When we get back to the Indy fundamentals it will be time to get rid of the evile formula cars introduced by the foreign heretics. Roadsters will once again take their place with engines in front as the creator intended. Cars with fenders will be banished from the IMS, never to return, and it will once again become pristine and those that defile it will be gone.

:tony:

oc

USAC did that from 1980 until 1996, and it was the most successful era for AOWR. :)

[JLMannin]

Bah! That was just talk.

It was REALLY about saving Indy. As in a schedule of weak races that nobody cares about and standing dominantly above them, The Only Race That Really Matters (TM).

Mission accomplished.

Much more important than selling a million tickets in a season.

Exactly. That is how I viewed this whole IRL thing when TG first announced it during the 1994 Indy 500 pre-race show. I find it truly amazing, that 14 years later, there are still gomers recovering from Lemming comas and just now discovering this today. Sometimes, I wish I could go through life so blissfully ignorant of the real world.

[Insomniac]

What threatened Indy? It was still by far, the biggest race, not only in the series, but in the world. What even came close to the attendance, viewership or name recognition?

[Boatdesigner]

The Tour de France coverage on Versus is excellent, it was the re-edited summary shows on CBS that were horrible. It will depend on the producers, the bicycle producers clearly know bike racing.

I can see it now, Bobke, Paul and Phil doing the announcing! Can you imagine the color we would get from Phil, Helio dancing on the pedals! :rofl:

[miatanut]

What threatened Indy? It was still by far, the biggest race, not only in the series, but in the world. What even came close to the attendance, viewership or name recognition?

What threatened Indy? There was a full season of races that people paid good money to go to. There were races on any old weekend of the summer where teams got sent home before the main event, because there wasn't space for them, so Indy wasn't the only race with a "Bump Day". There was a bump day every week or two. Indy only represented a third of the tickets sold in a season. Teams had the utter audacity to talk about cutting Indy to less than a full month! They weren't showing proper respect for Indy.

Of course none of that was the real reason. The real reason was that Tony was being denied his divine right to run the sport.

Well, he gots it now. It just isn't any longer the dominant, popular sport he sought to run.

But hey! He "won", so it's all good.

:thumdown:

[Insomniac]

What threatened Indy? There was a full season of races that people paid good money to go to. There were races on any old weekend of the summer where teams got sent home before the main event, because there wasn't space for them, so Indy wasn't the only race with a "Bump Day". There was a bump day every week or two. Indy only represented a third of the tickets sold in a season. Teams had the utter audacity to talk about cutting Indy to less than a full month! They weren't showing proper respect for Indy.

Of course none of that was the real reason. The real reason was that Tony was being denied his divine right to run the sport.

Well, he gots it now. It just isn't any longer the dominant, popular sport he sought to run.

But hey! He "won", so it's all good.

:thumdown:

I accept that he wanted control of OWR, and Indy is the most important thing, but it just seems like history is being rewritten now to say it has only been about Indy this whole time. He has done plenty of things to hurt Indy over the years.

[pchall]

USAC did that from 1980 until 1996, and it was the most successful era for AOWR. :)


:rofl:

[Andrew Longman]

He has done plenty of things to hurt Indy over the years.

Intentionally?

[miatanut]

I accept that he wanted control of OWR, and Indy is the most important thing, but it just seems like history is being rewritten now to say it has only been about Indy this whole time. He has done plenty of things to hurt Indy over the years.

Though the :gomer:s (and we too, with sarcasm) say "It's all about Indy", the truth is "It's all about Tony". Spending family million$ and actually doing harm to Indy is unimportant, as long as Tony is in control.

[Insomniac]

Intentionally?

Probably not. I think in his short-sighted quest to "win" he just did what CART did. Only problem being, we all saw what it did to CART. It basically destroyed them. Now he has one chassis, one engine, one tire and up to this year, had trouble filling Indy the last few years. He's an idiot, so I wouldn't expect him to do the logical thing, but if all one cared about was Indy, they'd devote their time trying to figure out how to get more cars to show up besides paying them. I think all he cared about was winning, while everything went down the drain. Perhaps that strategy would've worked if the split was less than 5 years, but it wasn't. Now we'll see if they are willing to just sit on things as is, or try to actually make the racing better.

[Insomniac]

Though the :gomer:s (and we too, with sarcasm) say "It's all about Indy", the truth is "It's all about Tony". Spending family million$ and actually doing harm to Indy is unimportant, as long as Tony is in control.

I'm with you now. :)

[Andrew Longman]

Probably not. I think in his short-sighted quest to "win" he just did what CART did. Only problem being, we all saw what it did to CART. It basically destroyed them.

What killed CART was varying doses of the following:

A failure to chart a clear course and workable business plan without Indy that manufacturers and others (sponsors, promoters, press, broadcast partners and teams) involved could get behind and plan with

Absolute stubbornness on TG part to compromise in the least.

The loss of the I500 and a failure to either replace it as an event or to raise CARTs status/brand to being greater than the 500. Yes Real Cars, Real Stars, Real Racing and don't blink.

Failure to ensure all stakeholders needs and concerns needs are fully met and they are delighted being associated with CART. The plan is to not only get back to Indy but make it a CART sanctioned event. Don't blink, raise your brand, and make it an embarrassment TG does not use CART for his race. If he is too stupid to capitulate, then let him go broke and ruin his race in the process. Meanwhile CART stock would continue to climb.

Driving away MB for lack of a plan. Pissing off Honda and Toyota for lack of a plan and silliness about trying to share a spec with the IRL. That drove away $ the teams had come to depend on too much and it drove that money to the IRL.

Not managing their image and PR well. They let themselves be seen as the bad guys.

Anyway, the CART model did work and could work for TG, but it is probably too late. He's pissed off the most dedicated fans in both camps now and his formula sucks. By 2011 no one will care.

[miatanut]

What killed CART was varying doses of the following:

A failure to chart a clear course and workable business plan without Indy that manufacturers and others (sponsors, promoters, press, broadcast partners and teams) involved could get behind and plan with

Absolute stubbornness on TG part to compromise in the least.

The loss of the I500 and a failure to either replace it as an event or to raise CARTs status/brand to being greater than the 500. Yes Real Cars, Real Stars, Real Racing and don't blink.

Failure to ensure all stakeholders needs and concerns needs are fully met and they are delighted being associated with CART. The plan is to not only get back to Indy but make it a CART sanctioned event. Don't blink, raise your brand, and make it an embarrassment TG does not use CART for his race. If he is too stupid to capitulate, then let him go broke and ruin his race in the process. Meanwhile CART stock would continue to climb.

Driving away MB for lack of a plan. Pissing off Honda and Toyota for lack of a plan and silliness about trying to share a spec with the IRL. That drove away $ the teams had come to depend on too much and it drove that money to the IRL.

Not managing their image and PR well. They let themselves be seen as the bad guys.

Anyway, the CART model did work and could work for TG, but it is probably too late. He's pissed off the most dedicated fans in both camps now and his formula sucks. By 2011 no one will care.
I think all those things weakened CART, but really bought it down was Pimpski putting a stick of dynamite in it a lighting the fuse on the way out the door.

If Pimpski (defending CART champion) hadn't jumped , I don't believe the IRL would exist now.

[Insomniac]

What killed CART was varying doses of the following:

A failure to chart a clear course and workable business plan without Indy that manufacturers and others (sponsors, promoters, press, broadcast partners and teams) involved could get behind and plan with

Absolute stubbornness on TG part to compromise in the least.

The loss of the I500 and a failure to either replace it as an event or to raise CARTs status/brand to being greater than the 500. Yes Real Cars, Real Stars, Real Racing and don't blink.

Failure to ensure all stakeholders needs and concerns needs are fully met and they are delighted being associated with CART. The plan is to not only get back to Indy but make it a CART sanctioned event. Don't blink, raise your brand, and make it an embarrassment TG does not use CART for his race. If he is too stupid to capitulate, then let him go broke and ruin his race in the process. Meanwhile CART stock would continue to climb.

Driving away MB for lack of a plan. Pissing off Honda and Toyota for lack of a plan and silliness about trying to share a spec with the IRL. That drove away $ the teams had come to depend on too much and it drove that money to the IRL.

Not managing their image and PR well. They let themselves be seen as the bad guys.

Anyway, the CART model did work and could work for TG, but it is probably too late. He's pissed off the most dedicated fans in both camps now and his formula sucks. By 2011 no one will care.

Right. So they paid more attention to trying to "win" than to doing what was best for CART. TG didn't make them shoot themselves in the foot over and over. And TG is just doing the same thing. He got the manufacturers and let them throw their money all about, raising the cost to race and budgets. Then they leave and he has to settle for a spec engine. So TG is doing everything CART/CC did, just a few years later after it didn't work out for them. By the time CC finally did things in their best interest, KK got tired of spending the money.

They need a new spec and new manufacturer involvement. I don't know if open competition is best or not though. The foreign manufacturers seem to be consistently crushing the domestic manufacturers. I guess you gauge who will show up. Open competition likely means foreign companies. NASCAR style competition where they make rules to hinder the better engines probably means domestic companies and foreign companies only if the ROI is there. Either way, they should be begging them. Asking them, "how can we bring you back?" and as soon as possible.

[Insomniac]

I think all those things weakened CART, but really bought it down was Pimpski putting a stick of dynamite in it a lighting the fuse on the way out the door.

If Pimpski (defending CART champion) hadn't jumped , I don't believe the IRL would exist now.

It started before that. How Chip and company were never sued by shareholders I will never know. For any of them to even compete at Indy should've been a huge conflict of interest. A complete violation of their fiduciary duty. Penske sold his tracks to ISC and one by one they kicked CART out. They all cashed in their stock and then proceeded to destroy CART from within. Chip wanted the 3.5L NA engine. Honda didn't. CART said OK and then said no.

The IRL wasn't going anywhere. The costs were low enough and they were filling the grid at Indy year in and year out. The BY400 was bank rolling the IRL. The IRL would still be going round and round if CART didn't melt down IMO.

[Andrew Longman]

Don't confuse the business model with how it was executed.

Selling a TV package and series that features varied courses and exotic high power cars centerpieced at the I500 (or at other mega endurance high speed event) is just fine. It was and would work provided the event and cars are credibly varied and high performance.

Doing that well as a commercial matter is another thing. CART screwed that up because owners got greedy or simply weren't truly aligned behind a common mission.

TGs problem now is that there is so much scorched earth, including a diminished 500 that the best strategy still might not be enough.

[Insomniac]

Don't confuse the business model with how it was executed.

Selling a TV package and series that features varied courses and exotic high power cars centerpieced at the I500 (or at other mega endurance high speed event) is just fine. It was and would work provided the event and cars are credibly varied and high performance.

Doing that well as a commercial matter is another thing. CART screwed that up because owners got greedy or simply weren't truly aligned behind a common mission.

TGs problem now is that there is so much scorched earth, including a diminished 500 that the best strategy still might not be enough.

Wouldn't you say what they executed was their business model? The model kept changing. They didn't have a conviction to stick with it. This is what we should do. Then a few months later, this is what we should do. Going public was probably the biggest mistake of all. They got a huge capital investment, but the owners could then sell out way too easily. Before, they'd likely have to sell to another owner or find someone who would take their place. As opposed to tiny pieces to thousands of investors.

[mueber]

New package: Indy tape delayed Sunday night. Everything else gets 15 minute segments a week later on Wide World of Sports. The cycle is complete. Someone call Dan Gurney.

That's it in a nutshell. Welcome to 1969.

[Andrew Longman]

Wouldn't you say what they executed was their business model? The model kept changing.

That;s my point. They had a model when they started the series that intended to well and good take care of all involved in the series, including sponsors, teams, sponsors, vendors and track owners. They did a real good job of that.

So well that one track owner felt threatened that that entity would begin to eclipse the power and influence his race had over the series and decided to take his race and go home.

CARTs mistake was not to realize they needed to stick with the basic strategy and business model of the series. If they weren't going to have the benefit the 500 brought to all stakeholders in the business, then they need to find a way to sufficiently replace it. Either that would make TG capitulate or it would make it so it didn't matter.

Instead, as you said they were all over the place and eventually did a bad enough job caring to stakeholders that they left to get a bad, but slightly better deal from TG.

Edit: Case in point, just saw this in the PM/Penske thread


PHILIP MORRIS U.S.A. 120 PARK AVENUE, NEW YORK, N.Y. 10017 -TELEPHONE (917) 663-5000 October 31, 2001 VIA FACSIMILE & FIRST CLASS MAIL Mr. Tim Cindric President Penske Racing,Ine. 366 Penske Plaza Reading, PA 19603 Dear Tim: As you know, we evaluate our marketing programs on an annual basis to determine whether they are still meeting our objectives. As you also know, under the Master Settlement Agreement, we are limited to one brand name sponsorship every twelve months. It is of the utmost importance to us, therefore, that the brand name sponsorship that we select each year meets our objectives and provides us with the best return on our investment. We are currently in the final stages of preparing our marketing plans for 2002. As we have communicated to you, our efforts with respect to preparing our sponsorship plans have been hampered by the fact that Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc. ("CART") has not yet released its final schedule for the 2002 racing season. That fact, coupled with the uncertainty surrounding the future direction of CART (as evidenced, for example, by the increased focus on conducting races outside of the United States), is very troubling to us from a financial as well as a brand equity standpoint. While we are gratified that Marlboro Team Penske has enjoyed tremendous success in CART and has developed good working relationships with the CART community, we believe that the Team should strongly consider other appropriate alternatives. Specifically, as we have been discussing, we feel that it is in the best interests of Philip Morris Incorporated and Penske Racing, Inc. to investigate the possibility of shifting the Team's focus away from CART and entering the Team in the Indy Racing League series (the "IRL") during 2002.

[Insomniac]

That;s my point. They had a model when they started the series that intended to well and good take care of all involved in the series, including sponsors, teams, sponsors, vendors and track owners. They did a real good job of that.

So well that one track owner felt threatened that that entity would begin to eclipse the power and influence his race had over the series and decided to take his race and go home.

CARTs mistake was not to realize they needed to stick with the basic strategy and business model of the series. If they weren't going to have the benefit the 500 brought to all stakeholders in the business, then they need to find a way to sufficiently replace it. Either that would make TG capitulate or it would make it so it didn't matter.

Instead, as you said they were all over the place and eventually did a bad enough job caring to stakeholders that they left to get a bad, but slightly better deal from TG.

Edit: Case in point, just saw this in the PM/Penske thread

They killed the golden goose with short-sightedness.

[miatanut]

It started before that. How Chip and company were never sued by shareholders I will never know. For any of them to even compete at Indy should've been a huge conflict of interest. A complete violation of their fiduciary duty. Penske sold his tracks to ISC and one by one they kicked CART out. They all cashed in their stock and then proceeded to destroy CART from within. Chip wanted the 3.5L NA engine. Honda didn't. CART said OK and then said no.

The IRL wasn't going anywhere. The costs were low enough and they were filling the grid at Indy year in and year out. The BY400 was bank rolling the IRL. The IRL would still be going round and round if CART didn't melt down IMO.
For me, the whole 'CART failed because of its own hubris' is revisionist history which is attempting to say that Tony didn't actually succeed in bringing down CART, because CART brought itself down. I think Tony did succeed at one thing in his life, and that was the thing most important to him: bringing down CART, which had taken away his divine right to run the sport. It took him and his brain trust 17 years to come up with a way to bring CART down, but their final plan did a very effective job of exploiting the internal stresses in CART to bring it down.

That said, when I first heard about the 3.5L atmo, I thought it was a horrible idea which seemed to be born of CART thinking they could play on F1's level when they were a rung down, and it was reasonable that they should be. It was another of many little mistakes that made the whole thing weaker.

I do think Pimpski's actions were the death blow. I also think that, while the IRL formula was cheaper, if the CART teams had maintained unity, Indy would have gradually been seen as a second rate operation, with the 500 miler at Michigan that same weekend being the rightful premier American open wheel race.

Basically, Pimpski busted his own union (irony of ironies), and caused the union to lose the strike.

[Duroc]

That's it in a nutshell. Welcome to 1969.

Except the 1969 season (http://www.champcarstats.com/year/1969.htm) had fan & sponsor interest, multiple chassis & engine combos, a way deeper driver pool and a marquee event that wasn't playing second fiddle at their own track.

[Insomniac]

For me, the whole 'CART failed because of its own hubris' is revisionist history which is attempting to say that Tony didn't actually succeed in bringing down CART, because CART brought itself down. I think Tony did succeed at one thing in his life, and that was the thing most important to him: bringing down CART, which had taken away his divine right to run the sport. It took him and his brain trust 17 years to come up with a way to bring CART down, but their final plan did a very effective job of exploiting the internal stresses in CART to bring it down.

That said, when I first heard about the 3.5L atmo, I thought it was a horrible idea which seemed to be born of CART thinking they could play on F1's level when they were a rung down, and it was reasonable that they should be. It was another of many little mistakes that made the whole thing weaker.

I do think Pimpski's actions were the death blow. I also think that, while the IRL formula was cheaper, if the CART teams had maintained unity, Indy would have gradually been seen as a second rate operation, with the 500 miler at Michigan that same weekend being the rightful premier American open wheel race.

Basically, Pimpski busted his own union (irony of ironies), and caused the union to lose the strike.

I have to disagree with your belief that it's revisionist history. Posters here (and at 7G) made all those assertions back then. Many openly wondered why Chip in particular was not sued by shareholders. Many of us criticized CART when they began to consider the 3.5L NA in the hopes that maybe it would foster a reconciliation.

Many people have talked about the mistakes of the US 500 way back as well.

Me saying they shouldn't have run Indy at all is revisionist for me (I'm sure others were smarter than me and saw that was bad to begin with). I loved it. They went in there, swept the top positions and left. But that wasn't good enough. Penske had to win, so he decided to run an IRL race before Indy. And before you know it, they needed the whole season to get as much data and experience as possible. I thought they could keep cherry picking Indy until TG got mad and made up some rules to keep them out.

TG won, but he didn't do a thing to make it happen. It was a win by default. He had the deeper pockets and the will/stubbornness to out last CART/CC.

[nrc]

The ultimate cause was the loss of Indy (loss from the series for CART and loss as a true major event for the IRL) and the creation of a competing series where there was no real demand. Supply of open wheel racing became much greater than demand. That depressed all the revenue streams to the point where they could not support a major league open wheel series. This was true for both series. Sponsor value was cut drastically while more teams were competing for much less sponsor money.

As a result, manufacturer money was propping up CART while Tony was propping up the IRL.

For Champ car the aspect of that that really killed them was that they lost any leverage over their engine manufacturers at a time when competition was driving up costs and creating a lot of bad blood. As a result Toyota took their ball and went to the IRL and Honda (rather pathetically) went chasing after them.

The transfer of manufacturer money at that time was the key. It allowed Tony to stop pouring so much money into his league, secured some legitimate teams and venues, and kept him afloat long enough to bankrupt CART. CART could have moved their pieces around on the board differently, but I don't know if it would have mattered. Open wheel racing was not a viable product and it was just a question of who could lose money longer.

A secondary factor was CART's move to go public. It eliminated what little motivation CART's team owners had to act in their common interest and set them up with control over the product long after they had already sold off their stake in the company.

The split killed open wheel racing. Period. Its return to prominence is no more likely than the return of Trans Am to prominence. It's a sport that was primed for success in the '80s and probably could have rode a smaller version of the same wave as NASCAR (which I think is also on the wain) but its time has passed and it's now pretty much irrelevant.

I miss IMSA, too.

[Insomniac]

Supply of open wheel racing became much greater than demand.

So you feel the excess supply caused the dwindling demand? I mean the total numbers between the two have just gone lower and lower. Perhaps interest in racing was going to go down no matter what? Having two so-so series didn't engender many new fans.

[nrc]

So you feel the excess supply caused the dwindling demand? I mean the total numbers between the two have just gone lower and lower. Perhaps interest in racing was going to go down no matter what? Having two so-so series didn't engender many new fans.

I think the interest in racing would have gone down the same way it seems to have with NASCAR in the last year or so. But splitting the open wheel fanbase between two series very quickly dropped the value of sponsorship so low that it couldn't sustain the costs. Only infusions of manufacturer money kept things looking sustainable for a while.

[Chief]

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080806/SPORTS0107/308060003

The IndyCar Series will return to ABC-TV for five races in 2009, including the Indianapolis 500, but the rest of the races will move from ESPN and ESPN2 to Versus, series and television officials confirmed Wednesday.

Versus, which is owned by Comcast and is home to the NHL and the Tour de France, will carry a minimum of 13 races next year in a multiyear agreement.
Advertisement

Versus is Channel 46 in Comcast's Central Indiana lineup.
SpeedTV and Spike apparently NOT an option. TONY GEORGE IS GOD KING!!:rofl:

[chop456]

Versus is a top-tier or pay channel on Dish Network, like Setanta. :laugh:

[Edit] It's also in the third tier package on DirecTV. Way to go, Tony. Building on that momentum, I guess. :tony:

Anyone have NHL viewership numbers from Versus? Take that and divide by a million. Potential sponsors will no doubt be in awe. :rofl:

[ChrisB]

Holy Cow! Versus? WTH? I had never even heard of Versus until this TV contract talk came up. I don't even know if my provider has it, or what channel # it might be.

Having only 5 races on ABC feels kinda like what F1 is getting... but at least the rest of F1 is on Speed channel.

[Methanolandbrats]

Holy Cow! Versus? WTH? I had never even heard of Versus until this TV contract talk came up. I don't even know if my provider has it, or what channel # it might be.

Having only 5 races on ABC feels kinda like what F1 is getting... but at least the rest of F1 is on Speed channel. Versus used to be a wildlife assaulting channel, now they mostly run film of steroid freaks beating the **** out of each other in a cage. Real top flight stuff.

[Insomniac]

Is it a time buy?

[Andrew Longman]

Wow. I think it might finally be over. There is no longer even the illusion of big time to this series and no promise left of it turning around.

No sponsor is going to pay anything what its like to run a top tier open wheel series only to be seen on Versus.

ICS is now firmly on par with Monster Trucks, and will have to rely on that type of revenue and business model. Expect big, downward changes in terms of number of teams, events, and formula.

Tony you just bought yourself a pile of crap

Maybe there is something to the rumors of TG looking to sell it off.

[KLang]

Can't be. Depender says it will be NBC. :rofl:

[Don Quixote]

Wow. I think it might finally be over. That was my first thought also. Turns out we are wrong, as this is being hailed as a great thing by many over at TF. I think one of the many things that killed our favorite series was not knowing when and where to find the races on the boob tube. People eventually forget about you and the numbers drop like a rock. Tony could have done a self produced time buy on ESPN, but now there is no reason for him to spend his money. :tony: Verses does a fine job with NHL and a great job with the Tour, but nobody watches.

[TKGAngel]

Anyone have NHL viewership numbers from Versus? Take that and divide by a million. Potential sponsors will no doubt be in awe. :rofl:

NHL ratings for the past season were a 0.3 on Versus.

[G.]

Versus is a top-tier or pay channel on Dish Network, like Setanta. :laugh:

[Edit] It's also in the third tier package on DirecTV. Way to go, Tony. Building on that momentum, I guess. :tony:

Anyone have NHL viewership numbers from Versus? Take that and divide by a million. Potential sponsors will no doubt be in awe. :rofl:
Oooooo. I'm off to upgrade NOW!



:rofl:

[SteveH]

I can hear Don Meredith singing in the background.

[Michaelhatesfans]

No sponsor is going to pay anything what its like to run a top tier open wheel series only to be seen on Versus.

No kidding. If a team isn't already locked in on a multi-year deal, they're hosed. And even if they are locked in on a multi-year contract, it's probably going to be challenged as the numbers that they promised their sponsors suddenly went out the window.

Holy crap. Looking back, that deal that Champ Car had lined up for '08 isn't looking so bad. So in the IRL's big year (yes, another one), they've ended up with a tv package about as good a the one that KK threw together as a bargaining chip for a season that he knew wouldn't even take place...

Nice work.:shakehead

[NismoZ]

I am SO underwhelmed.:shakehead

[cameraman]

Versus is a top-tier or pay channel on Dish Network, like Setanta. :laugh: Ah, no. Setanta costs $15.00 a month.:eek:

[cameraman]

Don't be slagging Versus too hard. It is the only place to see the Tour de France and a half dozen other major tours. The next one is the Tour of Ireland with stage 1 coverage on August 27th:thumbup:

I hate to say this but Versus takes it coverage seriously. This will probably be the highest quality coverage the IRL has ever had even though it is on a limited access channel.

A ten year deal:eek:


The multi-year partnership with VERSUS calls for the network to televise at least 13 races per year for the next 10 years, with each telecast lasting a minimum of three hours and includes extended pre-race coverage. VERSUS also will air a one-hour preview show the day before each race that will feature qualification highlights and all of the relevant IndyCar Series stories of that weekend. Additionally, the network will feature extensive coverage of all the qualification days at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway leading up to the Indianapolis 500.

VERSUS will feature at least 10 hours of IndyCar Series ancillary programming each season focused on the drivers, teams and tracks as well as allowing for extensive coverage of the Centennial Celebration at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in 2009, 2010 and 2011. Further, VERSUS will have IndyCar Series re-airs in the week following every race as well as the Firestone Indy Lights schedule highlighted in weekly 30-minute telecasts.

That would be great if the racing didn't suck...

Blarg. It seems that Versus will be broadcasting the ESPN coverage. So no improvement in coverage just much more Scott Goodyear:eek:

[G.]

Don't be slagging Versus too hard. It is the only place to see the Tour de France and a half dozen other major tours. The next one is the Tour of Ireland with stage 1 coverage on August 27th:thumbup:

I hate to say this but Versus takes it coverage seriously. This will probably be the highest quality coverage the IRL has ever had even though it is on a limited access channel.

A ten year deal:eek:



That would be great if the racing didn't suck...It's still produced by ESPN though.

[cameraman]

It's still produced by ESPN though.

Proof one should never underestimate the abject stupidity of TG and his minions.

[Insomniac]

Don't be slagging Versus too hard. It is the only place to see the Tour de France and a half dozen other major tours. The next one is the Tour of Ireland with stage 1 coverage on August 27th:thumbup:

I hate to say this but Versus takes it coverage seriously. This will probably be the highest quality coverage the IRL has ever had even though it is on a limited access channel.

A ten year deal:eek:



That would be great if the racing didn't suck...

Blarg. It seems that Versus will be broadcasting the ESPN coverage. So no improvement in coverage just more of Scott Goodyear:eek:

I'd have to agree with you. If this was a deal CC got (and it wasn't a time buy), I'd be excited about it. Probably because it seems the grandfathered Total Choice package includes Versus so it wouldn't cost me any more. But it's $5/month more to get the package with Versus. (I would assume people who have the cheapest package don't care much for sports since it doesn't include ESPN.)

However, while this would've been a step-up for CC, it's a step down for the IRL. ABC/ESPN paid them and televised all their races.

Edit: Just saw ESPN is producing, WTF?

[cameraman]

I was thinking that this deal meant getting away from Scott Goodyear/Marty Reid/ESPN which would be a huge improvement in the quality of the coverage.

They aren't.:shakehead

They are just moving the same worthless crap off of ESPN because the ratings suck.

Just when you think that they might have improved things a little they offer up twice the Scott Goodyear:yuck:

[Chief]

Edit: Just saw ESPN is producing, WTF?
Translation: Leap frog the OCHO right on to channel SEIS-CERO-TRES. ESPN don't want your crap around here anymore.

Abc will most likey do 2 races before indy, and two after. OUT.:rofl:

[Methanolandbrats]

A 10 year deal.................I'd call that very optomistic. :D

[Insomniac]

Translation: Leap frog the OCHO right on to channel SEIS-CERO-TRES. ESPN don't want your crap around here anymore.

Abc will most likey do 2 races before indy, and two after. OUT.:rofl:

It's odd given that Disney doesn't own the network, that's all.

[DagoFast]

It's odd given that Disney doesn't own the network, that's all.

It's called cutting your losses. Washing your hands of something. Getting the albatross off your neck. :laugh:

[Methanolandbrats]

So, for the next 10 years open wheel is buried in a TV graveyard with cage fighters and bulls stomping on rednecks....I don't think the new car is gonna help. :gomer: Someone should throw the switch and shut it down now.

[pchall]

It means ESPN is producing all the race coverage and paying Versus to show the programming.

I'm just waiting for the announcement that ABC itself will be showing two street races before Indy and two road races after.:)



Edit: Just saw ESPN is producing, WTF?

[Sean Malone]

So, for the next 10 years open wheel is buried in a TV graveyard with cage fighters and bulls stomping on rednecks....I don't think the new car is gonna help. :gomer: Someone should throw the switch and shut it down now.

Eggcept the eggciting InnyFinnerd! Tony cares about 1 race and 1 race only. The rest are just busy work for the teams.

[G.]

So, for the next 10 years open wheel is buried in a TV graveyard with cage fighters and bulls stomping on rednecks....I don't think the new car is gonna help. :gomer: Someone should throw the switch and shut it down now.Give it time. It might do just fine on the BIF channel.

:)

[miatanut]

Eggcept the eggciting InnyFinnerd! Tony cares about 1 race and 1 race only. The rest are just busy work for the teams.

Right.

And if the other races are a revolving door of weak venues, that means they can't threaten The Only Race That Really Matters (TM). I will be surprised if LB is on the schedule in five years.

[oddlycalm]

It's still produced by ESPN though.
Whew, for a second there I was concerned pressdog losing his source material....:laugh:

oc

[oddlycalm]

Maybe there is something to the rumors of TG looking to sell it off.
He would probably love to, by to who? What other wealthy jackass would fund that dead horse for another decade? Because of his track he has a level of interest in having it continue but I see zero value left for anyone else.

And, as long as he's propping up his dead horse, I don't see anyone else attempting a new formula car series. Nobody missed the scorched earth approach he took with CART, CCWS and any track or organization that ever rejected his series.

oc

[NismoZ]

Maybe A1 Formula Ferrari or SuperLeague cars in baseball/NBA/NFL livery will come to a road course near you?

[TedN]

I spoke with a colleague today about how this announcement might affect Canadian viewers. He reminded me that there is a Canadian version of Versus – still operating under Versus’ former name of OLN.

OLN is part of the CTVglobemedia conglomerate which includes TSN, so using TSN as the broadcaster of choice here seems to be an continuing option.

Ted

[shaggy_socal]

I will be surprised if LB is on the schedule in five years.

If the LBGP organizers are smart, they'll drop the IRL when the contract runs out.

Out of curiosity, does KK and GF still own the LBGP? IIRC they bought it under a different LLP/LLC.

[Methanolandbrats]

It's pretty clear that ALMS is gonna experience very rapid growth in the next couple years :thumbup: sure hope they don't **** it up, it's all that is left. If there is a God we will have Son of IMSA :thumbup:

[miatanut]

It's pretty clear that ALMS is gonna experience very rapid growth in the next couple years :thumbup: sure hope they don't **** it up, it's all that is left. If there is a God we will have Son of IMSA :thumbup:

Closed prototypes are on the way!

There was an article in Racecar Engineering a couple months back that said the Nissan, Jag, Toyota, and Intrepid all achieved close to or just over 1,000 lbs downforce, and were probably the highest downforce racing cars we will ever see, given downforce reduction is a major part of modern rules packages.

[miatanut]

If the LBGP organizers are smart, they'll drop the IRL when the contract runs out.

Out of curiosity, does KK and GF still own the LBGP? IIRC they bought it under a different LLP/LLC.

I figure Tony will do his usual 'My way or the highway' routine and they will say 'Thanks, but no thanks.' Hopefully Atlantic, or ALMS (or both!) will then say 'We'll be happy to run there!'

[cameraman]

Umm, they already do run there.

[G.]

Caught this at Cam's place.

http://thescore.ibj.com/content/?p=420


Though IRL and ABC officials wouldn’t comment on financial terms of the deal, industry experts said that the ABC/ESPN portion of the deal is a rights fee deal which next year will pay the league close to the $10 million it was guaranteed through the old contract, but much less in subsequent years. IRL officials jumped to Versus after ABC/ESPN officials threatened not to run some of the series’ races next year even if the IRL held them to the contract, racing industry experts said.


:rofl::rofl:

[SurfaceUnits]

VS is about to learn what you get when you try to dress up a pig

[nrc]

The best part is that the gomers think this is because they added street racing. :D

[miatanut]

Umm, they already do run there.

Without the supposed 'main event' IRL?

[pchall]

If the LBGP organizers are smart, they'll drop the IRL when the contract runs out.

Out of curiosity, does KK and GF still own the LBGP? IIRC they bought it under a different LLP/LLC.

From the CCWS LLC bankruptcy filing:


The agreement also calls for the long-term preservation of the Long Beach race, which is managed by a holding company owned by Kalkhoven and Forsythe called Aquarium Holdings LLC. The cost of staging this year's Long Beach race will be shared by Champ Car, the IRL, and Kalkhoven and Forsythe.

Looks like Kalkhoven and Forsythe still own the LBGP.

[stroker]

From the CCWS LLC bankruptcy filing:



Looks like Kalkhoven and Forsythe still own the LBGP.


Atlantics headliner, here we come...

[pchall]

Atlantics headliner, here we come...

Nice idea... is April too late for an A1GP race?

[stroker]

Nice idea... is April too late for an A1GP race?

What's to stop LB from coming up with an equivalency formula for Reynards, Lolas and DP-01's as a backup plan for the .1RL abandoning LB? I'd think you could get 30 car grid easy if you tried... But I suppose KK & Co have a non-competition clause in their contract with TG that would torpedo the idea.

[pchall]

But I suppose KK & Co have a non-competition clause in their contract with TG that would torpedo the idea.

I'm sure there is a non-compete clause about running a series... but I suppose if they called it a Formula Libre event they could sneak one event out around the end.

[Chaos]

now I realize the owners of Versus are trying to make it (eventually) a competitor to ESPN for national sports coverage, but they're not there yet.

I suppose if you're a fan, and have Versus, that'll be ok since that network is (supposedly) offering more time to the IRL. But don't expect anyone to go out of their way to find it and kiss some of your sponsors goodbye.

As for a league title sponsor now.... HAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Stu]

Caught this at Cam's place.

http://thescore.ibj.com/content/?p=420


Though IRL and ABC officials wouldn’t comment on financial terms of the deal, industry experts said that the ABC/ESPN portion of the deal is a rights fee deal which next year will pay the league close to the $10 million it was guaranteed through the old contract, but much less in subsequent years. IRL officials jumped to Versus after ABC/ESPN officials threatened not to run some of the series’ races next year even if the IRL held them to the contract, racing industry experts said.


:rofl::rofl:


this IRL TV contract is such a joke. they can't even afford hour long highlight shows like real racing series' produce. they're forced to get paid for their programming on a 2nd tier sports network like Versus.