Has Microsoft Lost It?

[nrc]

Not a good month for our former overlords from Redmond. The all important Off Camber Index shows them below 90% of desktops and 60% browser share for the first time ever in August. Vista is a flop. Our new overlords at Google have shown them the stick they're going to beat the software revenue out of them with and their server business is being nibbled away at both ends by Linux and VMware.

All of this, and the best thing they can come up with is a buddy piece with Jerry Sienfeld and Bill Gates? Srsly? Could you think of a better way to feature how "yesterday" your company is?

[oddlycalm]

The fact they didn't see this coming says it all.

Their message on their new Vista campaign where they show users an unidentified OS, then reveal it is Vista, is horrible; "Vista, it doesn't suck quite as much as you thought..." :gomer: Not exactly where you want to be in the 3rd quarter after release.

Hardware costs have declined by 95% over the last 20yrs yet Redmond is still charging the same money for the OS as they did back then. Easy to bury that cost when computers cost $10,000, a bit more of a challenge when they cost less than $500. If Vista was compact, unobtrusive, secure and cost $50 they'd have more friends.

They are killing themselves on the back office stuff like SQL as well by jacking up the license fees. We're dumping M$ SQL server and client apps and moving to a browser based front end that ties our customer management directly into our accounting/MRP system. Dump the SQL licenses, dump the server it runs on and it's XP license. Bye now...

Here's a question; where will M$ be in another 20yrs? You gotta wonder...

oc

[datachicane]

Here's a question; where will M$ be in another 20yrs? You gotta wonder...

oc

They'll be leaders in the highly competitive segment that includes CADO Systems, Intertec Data, Livermore Data Systems, Sinclair, Kaypro, Osborne, etc., etc.

You gotta wonder what MS could have done with just slightly less evil management, although I guess that sort of question has been asked before...

http://photobucket.com/albums/v685/CupOJoe/POF.jpg

:gomer:

[Sean Malone]

The Seinfeld commercial is horrible. I think it will have the exact opposite effect than is intended.

I haven't heard much about Vista in the past year. The vast majority of home PC's being sold every day leaves the store with Vista on it. My wife and daughters laptops have Vista and I never hear that anything is wrong. My home PC tech job has been relegated to installing new print cartridges.

My company is trying to utilize open source where ever responsibly applicable i.e. Ruby on Rails, MySQL but M$ apps aren't going away anytime soon.

They should get their Xbox marketing team to take over corporate campaign. I've always felt M$ was too splintered, some aspects are great, others are just bad rip offs of better products from others.

[SteveH]

MS may have lost, but now I am really looking forward to a chewy computer. :D

[WickerBill]

I hope they don't go away, but I do hope Ballmer goes away. I think he's a disproportionate percentage of the problem there.

[dando]

I've always felt M$ was too splintered, some aspects are great, others are just bad rip offs of better products from others.

Bob. :saywhat:

-Kevin

[nrc]

I hope they don't go away, but I do hope Ballmer goes away. I think he's a disproportionate percentage of the problem there.

They'd really have to be inept to kill themselves completely, but they seem on course to become the next IBM or AT&T - a virtual monopoly overcome by events that the couldn't deal with because their culture wasn't equipped for it.

Balmer is part of the problem. He seems to want to beat the competition for the sake of beating them rather than focusing on what is right for the company and the customer. The Yahoo! deal was a perfect example - it wasn't going to address any of the reasons why Google is dominant in the search and ad revenue market. It was just an attempt to buy marketshare.

[eiregosod]

I wish Mathworks or National instruments would come up with their own operating system to run their products on. 'soft etc.. waste the ultimate power of the PC.

[WickerBill]

Well that's not much different from what's happening on the server side of things. With server virtualization taking off, more and more software companies are offering a distro of their application(s) as a virtual appliance (Avaya, Cisco, SAP, Riverbed) -- you download it, OS and all (generally a very stripped Linux flavor), pop it into your virtual infrastructure, and it works. That way, the software vendor knows exactly what's running, you don't have to deal with the millions of weird ways a company can build / patch their OS base, etc. If it works perfectly in the vendor's lab, it will work perfectly everywhere.

That's why MS wants VMware dead.

[Insomniac]

I'm not sure of the OC index is a fair reresentation. You can get good computer advice here. That's an automatic disqualification. :)

In all seriousness, MS has been "struggling".

They have lost browser share to Mozilla.

I remember when they had basically nothing in the web server market. Now they aren't doing too bad:

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2008/08/overallc.gif

They had their reputation destroyed (rightfully) by putting out crap like Windows Me in a desperate ploy for more money. Almost 10 years later people still refer to that and whenever MS release a new OS, we all think of Windows Me. Add Apple's PC vs. Mac ad campaign in which MS sat back and did absolutely nothing while their chief competitor (even though it was only a small %) essentially defined the PC platform. The Seinfeld campaign is intended to be a long term rebranding for MS. (Which is why you watch that commercial and think "what the hell?".) They messed up bad, and while Vista isn't utter crap, an ad campaign that says, hey, Vista isn't as crappy as you've been told is about the best they have since the average person's opinion of the OS isn't based on actual use of it.

[WickerBill]

Seinfeld (the show) sucked pretty hard the first couple of episodes... until you started understanding the lack of plot. I think the commercials will come around.

[Methanolandbrats]

I might add, do not under any circumstances download IE 8 Beta. What a POS...easy to uninstall though. :D

[oddlycalm]

That way, the software vendor knows exactly what's running, you don't have to deal with the millions of weird ways a company can build / patch their OS base, etc. If it works perfectly in the vendor's lab, it will work perfectly everywhere.
You got it WB. People want their apps to work and the rest is just the rest. An OS should be minimal and transparent by definition while the M$ business model has turned theirs into a bloated revenue machine with the primary beneficiary being them, not the customer. Businesses are not amused that they need an army of IT people that are up to the minute on M$ lore to keep things working. The pressure to get around that overhead burden, and it's attendant cost, is enormous and that has created an opportunity for others to do just that.

I see Balmer as nothing more (or less) than inefficient legacy personnel. The reason he is there is personal relationship, not his performance on the job. Their money, their choice, but it wouldn't be mine. Richard is right about him not focusing on what makes sense for the company and the customers. Lose focus on those and they don't lose a battle, they lose the war. Otherwise they set themselves up to be the GM of the IT business.

oc

[Sean Malone]

You got it WB. People want their apps to work and the rest is just the rest. An OS should be minimal and transparent by definition while the M$ business model has turned theirs into a bloated revenue machine with the primary beneficiary being them, not the customer. Businesses are not amused that they need an army of IT people that are up to the minute on M$ lore to keep things working. The pressure to get around that overhead burden, and it's attendant cost, is enormous and that has created an opportunity for others to do just that.


oc


From a corporate IT perspective, upper management likes the added confidence that comes from M$ certified engineers on the job. When your infrastructure is a hodge podge of VM and open source the difficulty bar rises in managing every new 'technology'.
So while M$ is referred to around my office in a facetious tone, every workstation sports XP and half of our servers are Win Server (the other half being Linux based boxes running our Oracle DB's) and that won't change anytime in the foreseeable future. Not defending, just saying.

[WickerBill]

Don't be surprised at a pretty big shift in that coming down the road, though. My company couldn't possibly be more stuffed shirt old school than it is -- we're probably 75% Wintel and 22% Solaris and 3% Linux -- but when vendors can offer 100% support of a system because they built it from the ground up, the CIO starts looking at the Windows admins funny.

For instance, Cisco is offering a telephony product in three flavors. First is a physical 1U server that you buy and drop into your data center. You have to run two 1GB network lines to it for redundancy, assign it an IP and a DNS name, and it works. Cisco provides all support for it, including hardware, 24/7. Cost is about $15,000 and includes 3 years of support. Option 2 is a virtual appliance. Same as above, except they don't support the hardware because it's running virtually (on VMware ESX or Xen or Citrix XenServer). Cost is about $8,500 w/ 3 years support. Final option is you build a Linux or Windows server to your company's specs, buy the software from Cisco, install it (or pay them to come install it), ensure the right version of all of the RPMs or Windows components are installed, patch the thing yourself, etc. Cost? Almost $38,000. Why? Support is hideous compared with the other two options -- now THEY have to keep Microsoft and Linux engineers handy for your inevitable calls that turn out to be the wrong version of ASP.net or a slightly different Linux kernel.

The operating system, at least in the server space, is a commodity. Therefore, the operating system, in the server space, is dead.

[JLMannin]

I have no problems with my Vista machine. Of course, whenever dialog boxes appear, I actually read them and make a decision as opposed to just clicking **** to make it go away.

I think many of the problems with Microsoft products are caused by "Sir-click-a-lot" behavoir.

My guess is that a Mac in the hands of such an impatient click maniac would be just as trashed as a PC.

[nrc]

Don't be surprised at a pretty big shift in that coming down the road, though.

Thanks, Mr. Wickerbill. Is there someplace I can go to learn more about this exciting new technology? :D

[cameraman]

My guess is that a Mac in the hands of such an impatient click maniac would be just as trashed as a PC.

It is absolutely amazing how fundamentally screwed up a Mac can become in the hands of a skilled user.

[Gnam]

Seinfeld (the show) sucked pretty hard the first couple of episodes... until you started understanding the lack of plot. I think the commercials will come around.

Needs more Costanza...

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/439/bustedtees8131259b5fa1fbh7.jpg

[Sean Malone]

Needs more Costanza...



Larry David and M$ would have been funnier.

[datachicane]

Just watched this ad for the first time rather than doing the usual 30-sec Tivo skip.
Anybody else recognize the (slightly photoshopped) picture on Gates' Clown Club card? :saywhat:
I've had the unedited version hanging in my office for years...

http://gopaultech.com/files/2008/03/bill-gates-mugshot.jpg

[nrc]

Anybody else recognize the (slightly photoshopped) picture on Gates' Clown Club card? :saywhat: I noticed it. Probably the only hip thing in the whole tragically unhip campaign.

Now they've realized the foolishness of it and decided to make another foolish move by trying to respond to Apple's Mac vs PC campaign.

[Insomniac]

I noticed it. Probably the only hip thing in the whole tragically unhip campaign.

Now they've realized the foolishness of it and decided to make another foolish move by trying to respond to Apple's Mac vs PC campaign.

I'm not sure what they should do, but they've sit back for years and let Apple define Windows as crap. When Windows 95 came out, people were lined up before stores opened to get it. It was a must have. Now people's first thought is to wait for them to fix the bugs in the first service pack, even with no real evidence to back it up. Microsoft has to do something. I'm surprised they abandoned this ad campaign so quickly. It was getting a lot of buzz, even though most of it was "what the heck are they doing?".

[Sean Malone]

They need to stop trying to be trendy and start focusing on their products. If they had commercials that actually showed Vista in action with even the warm and fuzzy 'user' comments about how much they love Vista blah blah blah.

I prefer car commercials that focus on the features of the car instead of the ones they hardly show the car and have a Led Zepplin song behind a narrator that is telling me I'm not cool unless I buy the car I only see whiz by in a flash.

[Insomniac]

New Ads:
D3fuphN0yFE
MSiSIzXKMXw

[Dvdb]

Wow, those really blow.

[ChampcarShark]

New Ads:
D3fuphN0yFE
MSiSIzXKMXw

:cry::cry::cry:

My administrator blocked youtube!!! :cry::cry::cry:

[Cam]

:cry::cry::cry:

My administrator blocked youtube!!! :cry::cry::cry:

Don't let it bug you. Barfing all over yourself at work is rather uncool. :yuck:

[Insomniac]

Don't let it bug you. Barfing all over yourself at work is rather uncool. :yuck:

I don't know. I like the ads. I'm not sure what else they can really do. Associating every day people (minus the couple celebrities) with a PC isn't bad.

I agree they should talk about useful features and show them in action. However, I just don't know the efficacy. I mean, what features really sell an operating system? Even Apple doesn't bother doing that. They rarely ever show any of their products in use. They just try and advertise their stuff as hip.

I think what would serve MS well is if Windows 7 was more efficient. If it used less resources, so anyone with Vista (or maybe even XP) could put the DVD in, upgrade and be running the new version. Then talking about how easy it is and how "cool" the new version is. I imagine this campaign is more about changing the image of Windows for the next version than selling more copies of Vista.

[Sean Malone]

I don't know. I like the ads. I'm not sure what else they can really do. Associating every day people (minus the couple celebrities) with a PC isn't bad.

I agree they should talk about useful features and show them in action. However, I just don't know the efficacy. I mean, what features really sell an operating system? Even Apple doesn't bother doing that. They rarely ever show any of their products in use. They just try and advertise their stuff as hip.



I was thinking along the lines of quick flashes of people using various built in apps such as movie editing, their entertainment app, the windows/tab thingy etc. MS and Apple are trying to sell their image and name where I think they would be better served if they got back to what they are selling. How many people have actually seen Aero?

[Insomniac]

I was thinking along the lines of quick flashes of people using various built in apps such as movie editing, their entertainment app, the windows/tab thingy etc. MS and Apple are trying to sell their image and name where I think they would be better served if they got back to what they are selling. How many people have actually seen Aero?

Those "Mojave" commercials would be better if they showed what people were "wowing" over.

[devilmaster]

I remember watching a docu on the rube goldberg-esque honda cog commercial.

The one quote that I remember was from an ad-exec who said that the company always says 'show the car' and the ad people don't want to show the car because if you do, you don't stand out and you're just like every other car commercial.

I suppose a little of that goes into the commercials of Windows/Mac. Why show clips of an operating system that (for the most part) everyone sees anyways.... I look at that old Mac 1984 commercial which had nothing to do with a computer at all, and something like the Mac Air....

Its always been about form over function. The commercials that are always remembered are the ones who don't show the product for the most part.

[Methanolandbrats]

MS is trying to show that people from all walks of life use Windows, not just a few cult members. And that snotty geek in the Apple commercials needs his ass kicked.

[Insomniac]

MS is trying to show that people from all walks of life use Windows, not just a few cult members. And that snotty geek in the Apple commercials needs his ass kicked.

Rashad Evans would snap Justin Long in half. :D

[Insomniac]

I remember watching a docu on the rube goldberg-esque honda cog commercial.

The one quote that I remember was from an ad-exec who said that the company always says 'show the car' and the ad people don't want to show the car because if you do, you don't stand out and you're just like every other car commercial.

I suppose a little of that goes into the commercials of Windows/Mac. Why show clips of an operating system that (for the most part) everyone sees anyways.... I look at that old Mac 1984 commercial which had nothing to do with a computer at all, and something like the Mac Air....

Its always been about form over function. The commercials that are always remembered are the ones who don't show the product for the most part.

Apple does sometimes talk about OS X features. The time machine themed ad comes to mind. They never show them (especially since just from a pure GUI perspective, OS X and Vista work in a similar way).

[Sean Malone]

I remember watching a docu on the rube goldberg-esque honda cog commercial.

The one quote that I remember was from an ad-exec who said that the company always says 'show the car' and the ad people don't want to show the car because if you do, you don't stand out and you're just like every other car commercial.

I suppose a little of that goes into the commercials of Windows/Mac. Why show clips of an operating system that (for the most part) everyone sees anyways.... I look at that old Mac 1984 commercial which had nothing to do with a computer at all, and something like the Mac Air....

Its always been about form over function. The commercials that are always remembered are the ones who don't show the product for the most part.

Meh. I have three Windows boxes at home, two of which are Vista and I've never seen the Aero add on. Have you?

[FTG]

I think they work. You don't need to feel like a dork if you don't switch.

[cameraman]

I spend much of my days using Macs that run OS 10.5, XP Pro and X11 apps all at the same time. Whatever OS allows me to get my job done the quickest.

Has MS lost it? When it comes to Vista, oh hell yes. It does not run the control software packages for all the machines at work that run on XP Pro. You want to kill a $150K piece of biotech research gear? Try running it using a Vista machine:flame:

[devilmaster]

Meh. I have three Windows boxes at home, two of which are Vista and I've never seen the Aero add on. Have you?

I have one desktop, two laptops, 2 with xp pro and the other with ubuntu...

I've only touched vista on a laptop of a friend.... I can't understand how (well, technically, I can) how a brand new top with vista can't run a video cleanly that runs fine on a 4-5 year old celeron laptop with xp pro.

I agree with you Sean where I think they should be having stuff like the african teacher say 'I can show my students a polar bear' instead of just saying 'I'm a PC!' but what do i know - i don't make 6 figures at an ad agency. ;)

[cart7]

Hey, I'm a PC. How about you?

[devilmaster]

i'm 2 pc's and a ubuntu. :)

[oddlycalm]

I think they should be having stuff like the african teacher say 'I can show my students a polar bear' instead of just saying 'I'm a PC!' but what do i know - i don't make 6 figures at an ad agency. ;)

Maybe not, but your idea is better than those from them that do.

Best ad of all would be to just have Balmer say "I'm a douche bag, and Vista blows" and call it good. Customers might appreciate the honesty. :\

oc

[ChampcarShark]

You can say I'm 4 pcs. Two desk two laptops. I get the best performance from my old laptop running XP pro, 1 gig memory. It is a 5 year old machine compared to my brand new, six month, Vista laptop, 4 gig memory and so on.

[ferrarigod]

i'm now 3 mac's. and based on these commercials, i'm very proud of that fact.

[Insomniac]

Good article about what MS needs to do to get back in everyone's good graces (and what tech companies should do in general).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10047704-17.html

(The irony is that is what Apple did, and then their commercials paint them as a cool everyone product compared to the nerdy PC.)

[Gnam]

I don't like them using Jim Henson in their ads. Using his memory to improve their image is crap. :mad:

What I don't get is why Microsoft cares? Whether you buy an Apple or a PC they still make money. :p

[chop456]

I don't like them using Jim Henson in their ads.

Isn't that an American Express ad?

[Gnam]

Oh, yeah. :gomer: **** them too.

[Indy]

Good article about what MS needs to do to get back in everyone's good graces (and what tech companies should do in general).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10047704-17.html

(The irony is that is what Apple did, and then their commercials paint them as a cool everyone product compared to the nerdy PC.)

In short, make it appeal to the geeks. Which is precisely what Champ Car should have done and Indy Car should do, but both have been saved from potential popularity by superior management. Just like Microsoft. :laugh:

[SurfaceUnits]

Windows XP gets another lifeline
Software giant Microsoft again extends the time frame in which PC makers can sell Vista machines that come with its older operating system in the box.

[grungex]

:thumbup:

Maybe I'll upgrade from Win2K soon... ;) :cool:

[SurfaceUnits]

Just Call It Windows 7


We always thought that Vista sounded more like a code name than a real Windows product name. It didn't have a "vintage" sound to it, like Windows 98 or 2000; it didn't sound all tech-y like XP or NT, and it didn't have a cute little moniker like Bob or ME (although it might go down in history with those last two after all).

No, Vista sounded a bit like a code name that somebody accidentally released to the outside world, as if the name slipped into a PowerPoint marketing presentation or something, and it was too late to go back after that and rename Vista "Windows 2007" or some such.

So now we have Vista's successor, currently being rushed in like one of those dancing clowns that crashes the stage when an act is getting booed mercilessly on Showtime at the Apollo. And Son of Vista won't have a cute name or a tech-y name, either. In fact, it'll be just what it is: Windows 7.

Well, sort of. As reader Tony points out, Windows 7 might not really be Windows 7 after all:

"I am intrigued by the Windows version numbers. NT version 4 was the last time a MS OS was publicly given a version number. Windows 2000 was often labelled version 5 (within the OS), which would make XP version 6. Why isn't Vista version 7? Did I miss something?"

Maybe it was Microsoft that missed something, Tony -- as in missed big with Vista. Could the Windows 7 moniker be part of a subtle re-education campaign to get users to forget about Vista? Could Vista someday have the same disturbing air as the 7-1/2 floor in the building in Being John Malkovich? (By the way, see how many blogs you can find that mention Showtime at the Apollo and Being John Malkovich in the same entry. We're on an entirely different plane of existence here.) And, most importantly, what does Jerry Seinfeld have to do with all of this? Remember when George wanted to name a kid Seven on Seinfeld? Read between the lines, people!

Regardless of its name, Windows 7 will have some work to do to bring Windows back into users' good graces. Microsoft seems to understand that, at least in part http://rcpmag.com/news/article.aspx?editorialsid=10291, but, as we've said before, Windows 7 is stepping into a brand new world in which Vista is a relative bust and Software-as-a-Service is making the operating system more irrelevant all the time. Windows 7's name should be -- and, apparently, is -- the least of Microsoft's concerns.

[chop456]

I suggest "Ocelot".

[SurfaceUnits]

I suggest "Ocelot".

here kitty, kitty.

http://theappleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ten_six_kitty.jpg

[Insomniac]

Just Call It Windows 7

Ugh.

It's not that complex.

NT 4.0
Windows 2000 = 5.0
Windows XP = 5.1
Vista = 6.0

They've numbered it that way when released. This isn't retroactive re-versioning. Bring up the cmd prompt and type "ver".