View Full Version : Blu-ray player?
oddlycalm
09-23-08, 08:19 PM
I'm in the market for one and it turns out that it's not an easy market to be in.
With the format wars over I would have thought there would be a rush of new models with up to date specs coming out and prices would fall as well. Turns out not so much. Ideally a BD player would be Profile 2.0 compliant, HDMI Version 1.3 compliant, with the ability to decode all of the higher audio codecs internally in up to 7.1 channels. I'm not aware of any that do this.
The PS3 still seems to be the best deal if you don't care about the fact that it won't operate with a universal remote because it's Bluetooth wireless and that using a game controller to play films is not Wife 2.0 compatible.
It kinda feels like Sony won the battle but lost the war because it feels like there is zero excitement in this market. Most people seem to be sticking with DVD players and upconverting, which looks pretty good. Price seems to still be an issue as well as speed of operation.
Anyone have any picks or experiences to share?
oc
Sean Malone
09-23-08, 09:58 PM
It kinda feels like Sony won the battle but lost the war because it feels like there is zero excitement in this market. Most people seem to be sticking with DVD players and upconverting, which looks pretty good. Price seems to still be an issue as well as speed of operation.
It was a paper victory. As many analysts predicted the majority simply download their HD movies via sat, cable or Xbox Live.
Anyone have any picks or experiences to share?
oc
Nope. I won't give Sony the pleasure of buying one. But I did stream two HD movies this past weekend. Suck it Sony. :thumbup:
Insomniac
09-24-08, 08:47 AM
with the ability to decode all of the higher audio codecs internally in up to 7.1 channels
I thought they all did this? I thought the spec was set so that it could only be passed as PCM from the player to another device, but no bit stream support was allowed.
oddlycalm
09-24-08, 12:55 PM
I thought they all did this?
Up until now none of the players implemented all the features. I discovered there are a few coming out now that do, but the prices for them remain near $500.
oc
Insomniac
09-24-08, 01:06 PM
Up until now none of the players implemented all the features. I discovered there are a few coming out now that do, but the prices for them remain near $500.
oc
I only meant the decoding of the "HD" audio standards like DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD. I thought they were there almost out of the box.
Profile 2.0 is just now rolling out, so there won't be many players that can do that. Most likely just the latest from Sony, Samusng, Panasonic, etc.
You can find reviews here (http://reviews.cnet.com/home-video-reviews/?filter=1105350_111855_&tag=mncol%3Bsrt&sort=edRating7%20desc).
I'm in the market for one and it turns out that it's not an easy market to be in.
With the format wars over I would have thought there would be a rush of new models with up to date specs coming out and prices would fall as well. Turns out not so much. Ideally a BD player would be Profile 2.0 compliant, HDMI Version 1.3 compliant, with the ability to decode all of the higher audio codecs internally in up to 7.1 channels. I'm not aware of any that do this.
The PS3 still seems to be the best deal if you don't care about the fact that it won't operate with a universal remote because it's Bluetooth wireless and that using a game controller to play films is not Wife 2.0 compatible.
It kinda feels like Sony won the battle but lost the war because it feels like there is zero excitement in this market. Most people seem to be sticking with DVD players and upconverting, which looks pretty good. Price seems to still be an issue as well as speed of operation.
Anyone have any picks or experiences to share?
oc
oc, frankly I would wait until CES next year for the new models to be rolled out. BR and HD were still waging war when CES happened this year, so the current models in the chain were released/announced back then. I'm not sure what to expect on the pricing front considering the collapse of the $ this year. :(
And yes, I'm usually an early adopter, but I have no intention of upgrading any time soon. I have a distaste for $ony, plus the economic times have made me cautious.
-Kevin
I think there will be a few lower price models available for the holiday season. Beyond that I agree with dando, next year will be better for full featured models.
ferrarigod
09-24-08, 04:15 PM
Some of you may not like that the PS3 a great blu ray player, and may not have much use for the gaming side, and I understand that. But the fact remains that Sony is having to spend almost $1000 for a unit that sells for $400, that also comes with 80gb and Blu Ray, that is not a bad deal. Many reviews show that blu ray only dvd players selling for $400 do not have the quality and playback that the PS3 has.
Just a side note. Apple TV is also available for HD downloads now, and I don't know if there is something set up or not, but I have to imagine soon the PS3 will be able to download just as the Xbox or a computer can with HD and movies.
The PS3 is the only player that actually makes sense in the blu ray market, and if you have to sell it to your wife or something, just tell her the games are for the kids and the BRD is for her.
What I am interested in knowing is if there is any talk of XBox getting the Blu Ray at any point? I'm sure Sony would like to stick it to them more than they have so far, but I have to imagine a Blu Ray purchase for Microsoft at some point to keep up with the competition.
Sean Malone
09-24-08, 04:48 PM
Some of you may not like that the PS3 a great blu ray player, and may not have much use for the gaming side, and I understand that. But the fact remains that Sony is having to spend almost $1000 for a unit that sells for $400, that also comes with 80gb and Blu Ray, that is not a bad deal. Many reviews show that blu ray only dvd players selling for $400 do not have the quality and playback that the PS3 has.
Ya think Sony has designed it that way? ;)
The PS3 is the only player that actually makes sense in the blu ray market, and if you have to sell it to your wife or something, just tell her the games are for the kids and the BRD is for her.
So because Sony 'won' only their equipment is the only one that "makes sense"? I don't understand your comment.
What I am interested in knowing is if there is any talk of XBox getting the Blu Ray at any point? I'm sure Sony would like to stick it to them more than they have so far, but I have to imagine a Blu Ray purchase for Microsoft at some point to keep up with the competition.
No way. Because like I said above, the industry is moving past BluRay. Sony 'won' nothing.
ferrarigod
09-24-08, 06:23 PM
So because Sony 'won' only their equipment is the only one that "makes sense"? I don't understand your comment.
no, sony won because they had the better product with more titles. You should buy their equipment because regular BR players are trying to be made at a profit, while Sony's PS3 has conceded the fact that they plan on loosing a ton of money on the system and making it up on titles and games.
If a PS3 is $400 and another blu ray player is $400 for less quality, it is pretty much a no brainer as you get a blu ray, PS3 gaming and online capability.
No way. Because like I said above, the industry is moving past BluRay. Sony 'won' nothing.
and that may be true in the future, but for now people are still buying DVD's BR and standard at a higher rate than downloads. I just disagree that many are ready to move into online purchasing only. The market for online will grow, but many still prefer a hard disc. Even if it all switches to online, I doubt Sony will just let wifi capability and a minimum 80gb hard drive go to waste. Something tells me we'll see them enter the online market in a huge way with the backing of the same companies that made BR the 'winner,' such as Disney.
oddlycalm
09-24-08, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the comments. I gotta agree that a standalone BD player seems like a losing proposition at the moment, and if it was for me I'd do something different. The wife wants it so she can watch discs from Netflix.
Amazon has a lot of downloads and I'm sure others will get on that bandwagon. Not sure about time to download a full HD film, but it's gotta be hours.
I did take the time to check out the players locally. I agree the PS3 has the best load time. It also creates a lot more heat than a standalone player and won't work on a universal controller. Our kids are in their mid-30's and have their own places and stuff, so that's not a consideration.
The Panasonic DMP-BD50 appears to be the first standalone with a full feature set. Load and initialization time is nearly as fast as the PS3. It's under $500 from Abe's of Maine and nearly $600 in stores.
The Panasonic DMP-BD30 is light by a few features, none of which is essential to me and also has a fast load time. It's $280-$400 depending on where you buy it.
The other standalone players were too slow to load and initialize for me to consider them seriously.
oc
Sean Malone
09-24-08, 09:38 PM
no, sony won because they had the better product with more titles.
Wrong. Flat out wrong.
Sean Malone
09-24-08, 09:48 PM
no, sony won because they had the better product with more titles. You should buy their equipment because regular BR players are trying to be made at a profit, while Sony's PS3 has conceded the fact that they plan on loosing a ton of money on the system and making it up on titles and games.
If a PS3 is $400 and another blu ray player is $400 for less quality, it is pretty much a no brainer as you get a blu ray, PS3 gaming and online capability.
and that may be true in the future, but for now people are still buying DVD's BR and standard at a higher rate than downloads. I just disagree that many are ready to move into online purchasing only. The market for online will grow, but many still prefer a hard disc. Even if it all switches to online, I doubt Sony will just let wifi capability and a minimum 80gb hard drive go to waste. Something tells me we'll see them enter the online market in a huge way with the backing of the same companies that made BR the 'winner,' such as Disney.
Dude, how can you lump BR sales in with DVD sales? Are you even reading what you write? You disagree that people are not ready to move to HD downloading? Are you on crack?
Your post is is pure and simple PS3 fan boy. Here's an article for you...Why Sony Won and Why it Probably Won't Matter. (http://news.digitaltrends.com/talk-back/234/how-blu-ray-won-the-fight-and-why-it-probably-won-t-matter) There's even some PS3 love in there to give you a little warm and fuzzy.
blu ray will be the last store bought movie media format.
with massive hard drives and 10+ mbps download speeds, it will just be easier for people to download movies or view them on demand.
the people who are technically savvy will have no problem with this change. people who aren't probably dont have blu ray players anyway.
and as long as quality doesnt drop, this is all great for the consumer.
Wrong. Flat out wrong.
why?
the blu ray catalog did look better at the time of hd-dvd's collapse.
Your post is is pure and simple PS3 fan boy.
And your dislike of Sony isn't coloring your choices? ;) :laugh:
I don't think downloading is quite ready for primetime yet. I'm not sure how much more the current internet can support of it anyway. ISP providers are already putting in place limits on bandwidth.
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 09:54 AM
And your dislike of Sony isn't coloring your choices? ;) :laugh:
What are my choices?
I don't think downloading is quite ready for primetime yet. I'm not sure how much more the current internet can support of it anyway. ISP providers are already putting in place limits on bandwidth.
Yet? I've been streaming HD movies for 2 years now. People keep referring to it as "possibly in the future". It's the NOW folks. Welcome to the future. :gomer:
Insomniac
09-25-08, 09:56 AM
blu ray will be the last store bought movie media format.
with massive hard drives and 10+ mbps download speeds, it will just be easier for people to download movies or view them on demand.
the people who are technically savvy will have no problem with this change. people who aren't probably dont have blu ray players anyway.
and as long as quality doesnt drop, this is all great for the consumer.
Not to mention the industry. They can turn it all into a view/download once model, a la movie theaters. Sony is already doing it with movie downloads to the PS3. You can download it once, if you delete it, you get to buy it again. DirecTV limits PPV purchases to 24 hours now.
Yet? I've been streaming HD movies for 2 years now. People keep referring to it as "possibly in the future". It's the NOW folks. Welcome to the future. :gomer:
What process do you go through to download and watch a movie?
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 09:58 AM
why?
the blu ray catalog did look better at the time of hd-dvd's collapse.
There was no 'collapse', the surprise reversals by a few of the studios was the instant death.
At the debut of the PS3, HDDVD had more titles, significantly less expensive hardware, numerously more features i.e. internet interactivity. So how was BD superior? It had nothing to do with the product.
Damn folks, read an article.
Yet? I've been streaming HD movies for 2 years now. People keep referring to it as "possibly in the future". It's the NOW folks. Welcome to the future. :gomer:
Niche. Yer a geek. When my mom can do it, it's mainstream. Until then it's niche.
-Kevin
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 10:39 AM
Niche. Yer a geek. When my mom can do it, it's mainstream. Until then it's niche.
-Kevin
She doesn't have a HD cable or satellite box?
She doesn't have a HD cable or satellite box?
Just got HD and pr0nband last year after a lightning strike took out the TV, fridge, PC, etc. She still uses e-mail/innerweb sparingly.
-Kevin
There was no 'collapse', the surprise reversals by a few of the studios was the instant death.
At the debut of the PS3, HDDVD had more titles, significantly less expensive hardware, numerously more features i.e. internet interactivity. So how was BD superior? It had nothing to do with the product.
Damn folks, read an article.
fine in the 6 months prior to the collapse, heck even the 12 months prior.
who cares about internet connectivity on a dvd player right now? if thats important, then you should say most bluray players were superior because of the ability to play video games on them.
overall though, the products were similar, with no major differences between the two. sony won because of marketing, the ps3, and studio support.
Insomniac
09-25-08, 01:27 PM
overall though, the products were similar, with no major differences between the two. sony won because of marketing, the ps3, and studio support.
That and it basically became a contest between Toshiba and Sony on who could eat more hardware losses. No one ever succeeded in the home video market trying to make up hardware losses from media royalties.
Insomniac
09-25-08, 01:29 PM
BR sales won't really take off until the player is <$100. Not that many people are all that excited about dropping $400+ and paying almost 50% more for BR discs. Especially when everyone doesn't have an HDTV.
Maybe I am :gomer: , but we bought the Sony BR player earlier this year - they knocked a couple hundred off when we bought our new HDTV. It also included a certificate for 5 free movies - we got a few good ones and a few meh.
We also have Verizon's FiOS.
FiOS is great and the HD is sharp, but the movies on the Blu-Ray player are eye-popping. I don't think FiOS HD On-Demand is a match for the BR player.
We've purchased a few of our favorite movies, but we certainly won't be replacing all of our DVDs.
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 04:23 PM
FiOS is great and the HD is sharp, but the movies on the Blu-Ray player are eye-popping. I don't think FiOS HD On-Demand is a match for the BR player.
And that is really the crux of the matter. If you want to experience true, uncompressed 1080p HD movies the only retail solution currently offered is BluRay. Depending on the age of the movie and how it was converted etc makes HD incredibly varied. I've seen 720p movies that I swore were 1080 and I've seen 1080 movies look like standard DVD such as Pitch Black on HDDVD format. Watch The Incridbles on standard DVD on an upconverting player and you'll swear it's 1080p.
The question is can Klang's mom or my mom or anyone else other then aficionados tell the difference between 720 or 1080p and if they can is it worth it to them to A) either stick with DVD, B) download their movies via cable/sat/Fios etc or C) spend at least $400 on a BluRay player and then purchase build a library of $40 each BluRay discs. Right now choices A and B are dominating. will that change if the BR players are $100 in a year? According to the majority of analyst I've read is, probably not. The industry buzz is completely "download content".
We've purchased a few of our favorite movies, but we certainly won't be replacing all of our DVDs.
Which is why I come off as bitter in this thread and apologies to Mr Calm for sidestepping his actual question. Two years ago I purchased a $350 HDDVD player and a dozen HDDVD movies at $30 a piece for a total investment of $710. People will blame me for being an "early adopter" and that is the price you pay. Well, in my defense, when I purchased my player there were numerous units from a variety of manufactures and decent selection of movies that were growing weekly. When I inquired to the sale person about the two formats his response compared the two to DVD+ and DVD- and explained both were here to stay.
So instead of investing in yet another HD player and movies I've learned from my initial investment that there aren't that many movies I am willing to pay $40 for just to be able to view them at 1080p. Am I getting the quality I want? Not quite although the Xbox Live HD movies are very nice looking but the selection stinks, but I think that will change very soon. This Fall Xbox Live is offering Netflix downloads. the selection will be endless.
oddlycalm
09-25-08, 05:21 PM
I don't think downloading is quite ready for primetime yet. I'm not sure how much more the current internet can support of it anyway. ISP providers are already putting in place limits on bandwidth.
True for a lot of people. DSL connections at < 1mbs aren't very practical for downloading 20GB HD movie files. Fios is the ideal setup, but only that small group of Verizon customer have fiber to their homes.
Comcast was disconnecting heavy users (TV & movie downloaders) last winter but when their arbitrary practices created legal issues they moved to a 250GB/month cap. You can exceed that but you will pay for the extra bandwidth. That's 10 movies give or take, or 20 hour long TV shows. Connection speed varies but rarely equals the advertised speeds, let alone the "burst" speeds they talk about, never deliver, and hope you won't notice.
Amazon allows you 90 days to view and review the movie while others vary. Regardless of the time line it's basically the same pay-per-use model that went down in flames with Divx.
When my mom can do it, it's mainstream. Until then it's niche.
Yup, mom, wife, kids, babysitter, friend, etc. Until you can hit a button and start watching it won't be a reality for the mainstream.
We have family members that have no TV service at all and download everything from bitstream and watch on a computer and others that don't know what bitstream is. :D
oc
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 06:22 PM
Yup, mom, wife, kids, babysitter, friend, etc. Until you can hit a button and start watching it won't be a reality for the mainstream.
We have family members that have no TV service at all and download everything from bitstream and watch on a computer and others that don't know what bitstream is. :D
oc
Do what? What can they not do by clicking a button?:confused:
cameraman
09-25-08, 06:38 PM
Do what? What can they not do by clicking a button?:confused:
Download and watch an HD movie on the TV.
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 07:58 PM
Download and watch an HD movie on the TV.
Show of hands who CAN'T do this.
I cant keep up with this thread, let alone download entire movies via the 'Net
Here is the deal, and this from a HDDVD owner. I just want to watch a movie or serial. Today we have so many choices it makes life even more difficult.
It's a shame we can't get this much interest in a health care system that made sense :thumbup:
Sean Malone
09-25-08, 08:50 PM
I cant keep up with this thread, let alone download entire movies via the 'Net
Here is the deal, and this from a HDDVD owner. I just want to watch a movie or serial. Today we have so many choices it makes life even more difficult.
It's a shame we can't get this much interest in a health care system that made sense :thumbup:
Amen. :thumbup:
It's a shame we can't get this much interest in a health care system that made sense :thumbup:
Excellent point.
oddlycalm
09-26-08, 05:46 PM
It's a shame we can't get this much interest in a health care system that made sense :thumbup:
Agreed. :thumbup:
oc
Show of hands who CAN'T do this.
I certainly can, but there is a reason for devices like Apple TV and Roku. Peeps like my mom and the in-laws are the lowest common denominators when it comes to techie stuff. *shrugs* And based on my experience as an ISP customer service rep, there's far worse out there. :irked: :saywhat:
-Kevin
We have family members that have no TV service at all and download everything from bitstream and watch on a computer and others that don't know what bitstream is. :D
oc
Yeah, I have a friend that does that. Due to my heavy consumption of sports, that's not an option for me. Oh, and you've gotta love the cable cos. bandwidth limits, which will all but cripple online TeeVee/media distribution. :irked: :mad: :saywhat: :shakehead
-Kevin
cameraman
09-26-08, 06:59 PM
Show of hands who CAN'T do this.
My parents. They have a shiny new HDTV hooked up to an antenna so they get all the local channels in 1080i (or 720p if you are watching CBS:saywhat:). NO cable, no satellite, no computer. Feel free to come on over and show them how to download a movie:gomer:
oddlycalm
09-26-08, 07:32 PM
Oh, and you've gotta love the cable cos. bandwidth limits, which will all but cripple online TeeVee/media distribution.
The telcos and the cable companies will never come to the party because most are competing at the bottom of the market against companies that are as bad as they are. If they had spent as much on infrastructure as the phony advertising claims they might actually have something to show for it. :thumdown:
oc
Edit: Then there is switched digital video (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/switched-digital-video.htm) as a bandaid to the bandwidth problem that will only get worse.
We have a whole shelf full of DVDs that I'm in no hurry to replace. Most of my favorite movies will turn up on cable in HD at some point and I can archive them to disk and retrieve them directly from my TiVo. I'm sure we'll own a BluRay player eventually but there's nothing driving me to upgrade any time soon.
Television is going to become an on-demand medium just like the web. If cable operators resist and refuse to provide the bandwidth then someone else will. Resistance is useless.
My parents. They have a shiny new HDTV hooked up to an antenna so they get all the local channels in 1080i (or 720p if you are watching CBS:saywhat:). NO cable, no satellite, no computer. Feel free to come on over and show them how to download a movie:gomer:
CBS, CW, NBC are 1080i
Fox, ABC are 720p
Insomniac
09-27-08, 10:03 AM
Yeah, I have a friend that does that. Due to my heavy consumption of sports, that's not an option for me. Oh, and you've gotta love the cable cos. bandwidth limits, which will all but cripple online TeeVee/media distribution. :irked: :mad: :saywhat: :shakehead
-Kevin
Except their own On Demand offerings.
Insomniac
09-27-08, 10:06 AM
Edit: Then there is switched digital video (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/switched-digital-video.htm) as a bandaid to the bandwidth problem that will only get worse.
Why do you think SDV is a problem? It will use far less overall bandwidth. It turns the entire network into an old school telephone switchboard. :)
Insomniac
09-27-08, 10:08 AM
We have a whole shelf full of DVDs that I'm in no hurry to replace. Most of my favorite movies will turn up on cable in HD at some point and I can archive them to disk and retrieve them directly from my TiVo. I'm sure we'll own a BluRay player eventually but there's nothing driving me to upgrade any time soon.
Television is going to become an on-demand medium just like the web. If cable operators resist and refuse to provide the bandwidth then someone else will. Resistance is useless.
I fully expect them to go this way. They have the infrastructure and bandwidth. Their networks are large enough that they could set it up in a way that content is centralized. Their only impediment would be the content holders.
oddlycalm
09-27-08, 05:36 PM
Why do you think SDV is a problem?
It can make obsolete any device not specifically able to deal with it. They are solving their problem by making it our problem. :thumdown:
oc
Insomniac
09-27-08, 06:29 PM
It can make obsolete any device not specifically able to deal with it. They are solving their problem by making it our problem. :thumdown:
oc
I see, you were calling it a band aid, which confused me. I can see what you are saying though. I'd say fiber to the house isn't feasible, but Verizon is rolling out FiOS all over the country whole AT&T takes forever and a day to roll out U-Verse even though they use existing copper for the last mile.
Robstar
09-27-08, 06:42 PM
Just hurry & get a PS3... :cool:
It can make obsolete any device not specifically able to deal with it. They are solving their problem by making it our problem. :thumdown:
oc
Yes, they're happy to do whatever they can to force you to use their cable box. Cable card TVs are likely screwed. Fortunately they've at least worked with TiVo to come up with a USB controlled "Tuning Resolver" that will allow TiVo to tune SDV channels.
The FCC has tolerated way too much foot dragging from cable companies on the cable cards to begin with. It stinks that they've allowed them to throw a wrench in the works by deploying SDV with no solution for cable card users in place.
oddlycalm
09-28-08, 08:38 PM
Yes, they're happy to do whatever they can to force you to use their cable box. Cable card TVs are likely screwed. Fortunately they've at least worked with TiVo to come up with a USB controlled "Tuning Resolver" that will allow TiVo to tune SDV channels.
The FCC has tolerated way too much foot dragging from cable companies on the cable cards to begin with. It stinks that they've allowed them to throw a wrench in the works by deploying SDV with no solution for cable card users in place.
Any word when the "Tuning Resolver" will be available? Last I saw on the TiVo Community SDV FAQ there was still no word even though they showed them at the cable industry show in June.
Agreed on the FCC.
oc
Show of hands who CAN'T do this.
:wave:
I do believe there was someone on page 1 that that didn't know how to do this as well.
disclaimerblog: my vid card to tv interface never really got set up right; the sizes didn't match. I didn't bother to fix it, since you had to jump through some hoops to transfer the vid from monitor to tv (not one button). With this in mind, I have never bothered to LOOK for HD movie download sites, just to watch a movie on SDLCD monitor. I have downloaded exactly ONE movie, from a, um, unrecognized source of a torrent variety, watched the opening credits, then found something else to do. Since then the movie showed up on cable.
Bottom line, more work than I need right now.
Sean Malone
10-01-08, 01:55 PM
:wave:
I do believe there was someone on page 1 that that didn't know how to do this as well.
disclaimerblog: my vid card to tv interface never really got set up right; the sizes didn't match. I didn't bother to fix it, since you had to jump through some hoops to transfer the vid from monitor to tv (not one button). With this in mind, I have never bothered to LOOK for HD movie download sites, just to watch a movie on SDLCD monitor. I have downloaded exactly ONE movie, from a, um, unrecognized source of a torrent variety, watched the opening credits, then found something else to do. Since then the movie showed up on cable.
Bottom line, more work than I need right now.
Was it in HD on cable? That's what I've been referring to this entire thread i.e. there are multiple options for viewing HD movies other than spending $500 on a BluRay player plus $40 a pop on the movies.
Was it in HD on cable? That's what I've been referring to this entire thread i.e. there are multiple options for viewing HD movies other than spending $500 on a BluRay player plus $40 a pop on the movies.
HD on cable, SD from torrent.
Black Snake Moan is parked on my DVR in full HD, just waiting for me, like a loyal pup.
I really don't know where to DL HD movies, but I honestly haven't bothered to look. One button (and a scroll) DVR >> than figuring out how to fix stuff with the 'puter and vid card.
:lazyazz:
oddlycalm
10-01-08, 07:34 PM
Final decision on the BL player was the Panasonic DMP-BD30K. It was $269 from Amazon with free 2 day shipping. The PS3 would be the way to go if you wanted to spend $100 more, play games, don't use a universal remote and don't care about the heat radiation/current draw from the PS3. The Panasonic is missing the ethernet port the new players have but I really don't care if the BD player has a social life.
I don't see actually buying many BR movies, and we aren't looking to replace our DVD library, but the DVD player was past due for retirement regardless. It's the first DVD player every released (April 1997) the Toshiba 3006. :gomer:
oc
Final decision on the BL player was the Panasonic DMP-BD30K. It was $269 from Amazon with free 2 day shipping. The PS3 would be the way to go if you wanted to spend $100 more, play games, don't use a universal remote and don't care about the heat radiation/current draw from the PS3. The Panasonic is missing the ethernet port the new players have but I really don't care if the BD player has a social life.
I don't see actually buying many BR movies, and we aren't looking to replace our DVD library, but the DVD player was past due for retirement regardless. It's the first DVD player every released (April 1997) the Toshiba 3006. :gomer:
oc
So why not cut your loss and spend <$100 on an upconversion player? My last DVD player purchase was a Panny upconversion player off eBay for ~$50. Damn solid unit, but of course it replaces a ~$100 Panny unit that bit the dust after a couple of years. :irked: Of course I had a nice Tosh from the same time period that worked great for 4 years until I upgraded to the Panny progressive scan player. :saywhat:
-Kevin
oddlycalm
10-02-08, 01:49 PM
So why not cut your loss and spend <$100 on an upconversion player?
Considered that but decided to get the BD player because it could do it all.
oc
Any word when the "Tuning Resolver" will be available? Last I saw on the TiVo Community SDV FAQ there was still no word even though they showed them at the cable industry show in June.
There's a thread on TCF that Comcast in Jersy will start giving out tuning resolvers on Tuesday. I imagine it will be like cable cards, which were nearly a disaster at the start. Then smoothed out once cable companies started to accept that the could not simply ignore them and hope they'd go away.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=406956
BTW, WOW added HD channels and cut their HD Pak fee by $2 this month.</Twilight Zone>
BTW, WOW added HD channels and cut their HD Pak fee by $2 this month.</Twilight Zone>
But my TWC HD is "FREE". :gomer: Oh, yeah and they are raising their standard service rate $5, STB fee $1.50, as well as upping their fees for some digital tier packages by a few bucks. :irked: :mad: After the Great Wind Storm of '08 debacle (no cable for a week while my neighbor has WOW and had cable) and now this, I'll be beating a path to WOW very soon.
-Kevin
TKGAngel
10-04-08, 06:26 PM
But my TWC HD is "FREE". :gomer: Oh, yeah and they are raising their standard service rate $5, STB fee $1.50, as well as upping their fees for some digital tier packages by a few bucks. :irked: :mad: After the Great Wind Storm of '08 debacle (no cable for a week while my neighbor has WOW and had cable) and now this, I'll be beating a path to WOW very soon.
-Kevin
TWC is in a massive PR blitz up here. They've added 15 more HD channels to my lineup in the past two weeks. Wish they'd make NHL Network free, though.
Meanwhile, because their pissing contest with LIN Broadcasting has pulled our CBS affiliate off cable, TWC has handed out over 15,000 sets of rabbit ears in the past two days and expects to hand out another 10,000 more by 4pm tomorrow. People don't care about the CBS prime lineup, they're more concerned about seeing the Bills game. I think I've learned more in the past day about rabbit ear hookup than I've ever wanted to know.
I can't have a dish in my current domicile, so I'm stuck with them.
TWC is in a massive PR blitz up here. They've added 15 more HD channels to my lineup in the past two weeks. Wish they'd make NHL Network free, though.
Meanwhile, because their pissing contest with LIN Broadcasting has pulled our CBS affiliate off cable, TWC has handed out over 15,000 sets of rabbit ears in the past two days and expects to hand out another 10,000 more by 4pm tomorrow. People don't care about the CBS prime lineup, they're more concerned about seeing the Bills game. I think I've learned more in the past day about rabbit ear hookup than I've ever wanted to know.
I can't have a dish in my current domicile, so I'm stuck with them.
Nice. :shakehead Yeah, we lost The CW (BFD) due to the LIN fiasco. Locally TWC has been getting their *** handed to them by DTV and two local cable cos., primarily due to the BTN fiasco as well as releasing cable guide sw that was the worst piece of release software code I have ever seen. :saywhat: I've tested alpha sw that was better. :irked: TWC is preparing to be spun off by Time Warner. Can you say the Titanic is being re-launched? :shakehead :gomer:
-Kevin
Insomniac
10-06-08, 10:28 AM
Sony BR Player for $200: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=184588
oddlycalm
10-06-08, 02:47 PM
Sony BR Player for $200: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=184588
Yep, they are blowing out the old gen players to make room for the new models. The load / initialization times on the Sony were glacial which is why I got the Panasonic. It's the quickest so far aside from the PS3.
oc
oddlycalm
10-06-08, 02:49 PM
There's a thread on TCF that Comcast in Jersy will start giving out tuning resolvers on Tuesday. I imagine it will be like cable cards, which were nearly a disaster at the start. Then smoothed out once cable companies started to accept that the could not simply ignore them and hope they'd go away.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=406956
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out. The last few HD channels added can't be viewed on our S3's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will allow use of the on-demand feature.
oc
Thanks, I'll keep an eye out. The last few HD channels added can't be viewed on our S3's. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will allow use of the on-demand feature.
oc
No such luck. OnDemand is a completely different kettle of fish from SDV channels. But with Amazon I've never really wished for cable's OnDemand. I suppose if you do pay-per-view events it would be a hassle.
Insomniac
10-06-08, 04:27 PM
Yep, they are blowing out the old gen players to make room for the new models. The load / initialization times on the Sony were glacial which is why I got the Panasonic. It's the quickest so far aside from the PS3.
oc
I wonder why the cheap Chinese models still aren't here yet. Wal-Mart was going to bring in cheap HD-DVD players. BR licensing costs too high?
oddlycalm
10-06-08, 06:07 PM
No such luck. OnDemand is a completely different kettle of fish from SDV channels. But with Amazon I've never really wished for cable's OnDemand. I suppose if you do pay-per-view events it would be a hassle.
Figures. Comcast OnDemand is actually free if you subscribe to the particular channel. There is pay per view section but the vast majority of the content is no charge for us. Handy if you happen to miss an episode of something. We kept a cable box when the brought out the cards for the S3's and we may swap it for an HD box if the wife continues to use OnDemand as much as in the past.
oc
Insomniac
10-27-08, 11:49 AM
Black Friday at Sears will have the Sony BDP-S350 for $180 and Samsung BD-P1500 for $200.
http://www.blackfriday.info/sales/sears-black-friday-ad.html (Sony under Home Theater, Samsung under DVD Players)
Insomniac
10-30-08, 11:04 AM
Amazon has a deal running now. $100 off an order that includes a BR Player and 4 Warner titles.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000279241
Sean Malone
10-30-08, 04:11 PM
A $180 BD player is tempting, but the thought of building a new library of $35 discs is depressing.
I'm waiting for the Fall update for the Xbox 360 which will allow Netflix instant watch movies to be played on your TV. 10,000 instant watch movies and 300 HD movies to choose from. The HD download ability is a new product from Netflix for the 360 partnership.
the current Netflix download content can only be accessed by your PC, a specific model BD player and a purpose built player.
I've streamed many Netflix instant watch movies through my laptop and outputed to my HDTV via a 20' VGA cable. The quality is poor, but I think the quality is determined by the connection that their player software detects. I haven't tried it hardwired.
My wife loves it though as she lays in bed with her laptop and has 10K movies to choose from.
With the 360 you need a Xbox Live account which runs $50 a year and a basic Netflix account which I think is about $10 a month so for about $14 a month you can 'instant watch' 10,000 movies. Better than anything I'm getting through cable.
A $180 BD player is tempting, but the thought of building a new library of $35 discs is depressing.
I'm waiting for the Fall update for the Xbox 360 which will allow Netflix instant watch movies to be played on your TV. 10,000 instant watch movies and 300 HD movies to choose from. The HD download ability is a new product from Netflix for the 360 partnership.
the current Netflix download content can only be accessed by your PC, a specific model BD player and a purpose built player.
I've streamed many Netflix instant watch movies through my laptop and outputed to my HDTV via a 20' VGA cable. The quality is poor, but I think the quality is determined by the connection that their player software detects. I haven't tried it hardwired.
My wife loves it though as she lays in bed with her laptop and has 10K movies to choose from.
With the 360 you need a Xbox Live account which runs $50 a month and a basic Netflix account which I think is abour abot $10 a month so for about $14 a month you can 'instant watch' 10,000 movies. Better than anything I'm getting through cable.
You only need to rebuild your library for those flicks you want in HD. For me, there would only be a handful. Also, the Netflix download movies can be accessed via the Roku device, which has received decent reviews from what I've seen. How does $50/mo. + $10/mo. == $14/mo.? Is that $50 annually?
-Kevin
James Bond movies being re-re-re-released in Blu-Ray. :cool: I think I see a new Blu-ray player under the Christmas tree this year. :)
oddlycalm
10-30-08, 06:55 PM
the current Netflix download content can only be accessed by your PC, a specific model BD player and a purpose built player.
Add TiVo to the list. :cool: I'm hoping the image quality is comparable to a standard DVD at the minimum.
Netflix and TiVo finally come to an agreement (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20081030/ap_on_hi_te/tec_netflix_tivo)
So far, the only full 1080P download service I'm aware of is VuDu (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/24/vudu-movie-set-top-box-wanders-into-select-best-buy-locations/) While the image probably looks great (haven't seen one myself), the bandwidth used would be prohibitive IMO for all but FIOS customers at the moment unless your use is very occasional.
oc
Update - The Panasonic BD player is doing a fine job with standard DVD's and BD's. The new models are out now and you can look for prices to fall fast in the current economy. DVD's look good enough upconverted that I'd be unlikely to replace any DVD's we own. I wouldn't have been in the market for a BD player at all if our ancient DVD player didn't need replacement.
Add TiVo to the list. :cool: I'm hoping the image quality is comparable to a standard DVD at the minimum.
Netflix and TiVo finally come to an agreement (http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20081030/ap_on_hi_te/tec_netflix_tivo)
Under the partnership announced Thursday, the latest generation of TiVo's digital video recorders will be able to beam selections from 12,000 movies and TV shows offered through Netflix's streaming service, which must be piped over high-speed Internet connections. TiVo's DVRs will start catering to Netflix subscribers in early December.
Hopefully that means TivoHD and the 3-series, and not just the HD XL.
-Kevin
Hopefully that means TivoHD and the 3-series, and not just the HD XL.
-Kevin
Yes. S3 and later.
Tivo has also added Jaman (http://www.jaman.com/) and will soon add CinemaNow (http://www.cinemanow.com/) (Disney).
Yes. S3 and later.
Tivo has also added Jaman (http://www.jaman.com/) and will soon add CinemaNow (http://www.cinemanow.com/) (Disney).
:)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10078711-1.html?tag=mncol
Netflix streaming will be coming to TiVo DVRs by the end of 2008.
The ability to stream Netflix movies and TV shows will begin beta testing for select TiVo owners immediately, with an official roll-out scheduled for early December. It will be available on TiVo HD, HD XL, and Series3 DVRs (not Series2 or DirecTV models).
-Kevin
Uh oh.
Blu-ray = laserdisc (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/108657)
Next-gen optical format promises to revolutionize the industry with features unavailable to previous formats... but it runs afoul of corporate infighting, high prices, and consumers uninterested in changing formats. Eventually they decide, en masse, to stick with what they already know.
Sound familiar? That's what relegated Laserdisc to an oddball obscurity back in the 1980s, and it's an uncanny description of the current situation with Blu-ray today.
ZDNet's Robin Harris is now taking the bold step of calling Blu-ray "dead" and "in a death spiral," saying that in 12 months the format "will be a videophile niche, not a mass market product." While it may be early in the game to make such a prediction, Harris has some good points in his screed.
Honestly, I'll probably wait until whatever's next.
Blu needs to get recorders out to have a chance, IMidioticO. Otherwise, what's the point?
Of course, if I can't get wicked-fast 'net at a reasonable price, I'll sing a different tune.
Insomniac
11-01-08, 12:51 PM
Uh oh.
Blu-ray = laserdisc (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/108657)
Honestly, I'll probably wait until whatever's next.
Blu needs to get recorders out to have a chance, IMidioticO. Otherwise, what's the point?
Of course, if I can't get wicked-fast 'net at a reasonable price, I'll sing a different tune.
I don't agree, but it wouldn't just be the death of BR, it would be the death of DVD as well. Which is why I don't believe it. It is a superior quality and the price of players will drop to the point that it will just push DVD players out of the market.
Blu needs to get recorders out to have a chance, IMidioticO. Otherwise, what's the point?
You mean like this beast?
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-TechBargains&cm_mmc=AFC-TechBargains-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16827136155
LG Black 6X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-ray Burner 6X Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive Model GGW-H20LK - OEM
Shazam! And for 2 bills? :eek:
-Kevin
Uh oh.
Blu-ray = laserdisc (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/108657)
Honestly, I'll probably wait until whatever's next.
Blu needs to get recorders out to have a chance, IMidioticO. Otherwise, what's the point?
Of course, if I can't get wicked-fast 'net at a reasonable price, I'll sing a different tune.
there wont be anything next. it will all be via online.
there wont be anything next. it will all be via online.
Well, if the cable cos. continue down the bandwidth cap path...mebbe not. :irked:
-Kevin
there wont be anything next. it will all be via online.
(re-read my last sentence)
Also (not to you, Stu), some people don't even buy CD's anymore, but buy the lesser quality replacement (mpeg's). Or steal it.
oddlycalm
11-01-08, 04:08 PM
It's likely that within a couple product cycles DVD only players will disappear and the current premium for BD will substantially disappear. I'd be a bigger believer in the online download business model if the infrastructure existed to support it. Also, when faced with replacing an ancient DVD player like were were it's a lot easier to justify.
The author makes the comparison to laser discs, which is a good one, but the other side of that coin is that the 99.9% of the US population that didn't buy one missed out on the first decade of quality home theater. Oh, and good luck upconverting those VHS tapes...
oc
(re-read my last sentence)
Also (not to you, Stu), some people don't even buy CD's anymore, but buy the lesser quality replacement (mpeg's). Or steal it.
i did.
Well, if the cable cos. continue down the bandwidth cap path...mebbe not. :irked:
-Kevin
they wont. faster lines are on the way. brandwidth caps are temporary.
Insomniac
11-01-08, 06:51 PM
they wont. faster lines are on the way. brandwidth caps are temporary.
The caps are there to protect all users from having their bandwidth destroyed by a couple users. The cable companies aren't going to be re-doing their networks any time soon.
Something is going on with Comcast. Not long after announcing the bandwidth caps they are now saying 22Mbps and 50Mbps download speeds are on the way. Not sure how they will do it.
Something is going on with Comcast. Not long after announcing the bandwidth caps they are now saying 22Mbps and 50Mbps download speeds are on the way. Not sure how they will do it.
The caps are for the standard users. If you want more speed, you have to pay through the nose for it. :irked:
-Kevin
The caps are for the standard users. If you want more speed, you have to pay through the nose for it. :irked:
-Kevin
WOW just doubled our bandwidth (4M to 8M) at no extra charge. :thumbup:
Comcast's bandwidth cap of 250G won't impact most people unless they're a family that downloads a lot of movies and other media.
WOW just doubled our bandwidth (4M to 8M) at no extra charge. :thumbup:
Comcast's bandwidth cap of 250G won't impact most people unless they're a family that downloads a lot of movies and other media.
Wow! :gomer:
TWC's limits are far more restrictive than Comastic. :irked: My point was that if anyone believes that online is in the near future (2-3 years) for major on demand video consumption, you've got another thing coming. If they are restricting bandwidth for the 5% (or less), just think about what will happen when 60% or more are expected to consume online on demand videos. We're easily ~10 years away from that point. Hell, TWC can't get their current SD on demand crap to work consistently. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Insomniac
11-01-08, 10:44 PM
Cox's limits are much lower. You could hit the limit in half a day.
http://www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
Sean Malone
11-02-08, 10:43 AM
I'm getting 20mbps internet w/ no cap with phone and cable for $120 a month. Is this on par with others?
Cox's limits are much lower. You could hit the limit in half a day.
http://www.cox.com/policy/limitations.asp
cox in cleveland doesnt have those limits. i was downloading terabytes of stuff when i had them in my apartment.
I'm getting 20mbps internet w/ no cap with phone and cable for $120 a month. Is this on par with others?
7 mbps down with time warner for 45 a month :thumdown:
directv hd and pretty much every channel for 35-55 a month depending on discounts :thumbup:
sprint sero cell phone and no home phone (because land line phones and even IP based phones are for old folks). :thumbup:
Wow! :gomer:
TWC's limits are far more restrictive than Comastic. :irked: My point was that if anyone believes that online is in the near future (2-3 years) for major on demand video consumption, you've got another thing coming. If they are restricting bandwidth for the 5% (or less), just think about what will happen when 60% or more are expected to consume online on demand videos. We're easily ~10 years away from that point. Hell, TWC can't get their current SD on demand crap to work consistently. :saywhat:
-Kevin
you're wrong.
and time warner has no limits up here.
you're wrong.
and time warner has no limits up here.
They are in the process of testing them in Texas. Coming soon to a TWC affiliate near you.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080603-40gb-for-55-per-month-time-warner-bandwidth-caps-arrive.html
-Kevin
(because land line phones and even IP based phones are for old folks). :thumbup:
You wouldn't have said that a month or so ago after the 'wind storm' around here when folks didn't have power or cable for a week. My land line was my only net access from home (a necessity). Plus, cell phone call quality in the US sucketh. I called my mom from Germany last year on my boss' crackberry and it was as clear as if she was next door.
-Kevin
Insomniac
11-02-08, 02:29 PM
cox in cleveland doesnt have those limits. i was downloading terabytes of stuff when i had them in my apartment.
I don't think they enforce them often. If you aren't causing trouble for your neighbors, you're OK. Most of these guys don't actively monitor usage. They take a look when problems are reported. If everyone is downloading video, the networks could be saturated, but we'll see. Personally, I think both will co-exist fine.
oddlycalm
11-02-08, 06:37 PM
I'm getting 20mbps internet w/ no cap with phone and cable for $120 a month. Is this on par with others?
Totally depends on the area and it can vary widely even by neighborhood. For urban California your service would be average. For areas served by FIOS it would be average. For most other regions it would kill.
Around here what it would buy depends on where you live. West of Portland in Washington County $99 would buy you 20mbps service w/ no cap, FIOS TV w/ 97 HD channels available and phone. In Portland $109 would by you Comcast with 8.3mbps service (actual) w/ a 250GB monthly cap, cable TV with 35HD channels and phone.
Since FIOS rolled out the cableco's tactic is to simply lie about the number of HD channels and internet bandwidth. The pull numbers out of their tail pipes that have no relation to anything they off. 100 HD channels when they actual have 35, 15mbps connections when the real speed is just above 8mbps and then only during off-peak hours.
Another issue that bears on this is the FCC white space decision (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-fcc1-2008nov01,0,5049904.story) set to be decided next week. The FCC will decide whether to open up the portion of the airwaves now reserved for analog TV for free use for wireless internet service or whether it will be auctioned off for to business.
oc
You wouldn't have said that a month or so ago after the 'wind storm' around here when folks didn't have power or cable for a week. My land line was my only net access from home (a necessity). Plus, cell phone call quality in the US sucketh. I called my mom from Germany last year on my boss' crackberry and it was as clear as if she was next door.
-Kevin
tethered cell phone would have worked and been faster than land line interenet.
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