Sony is sending me $180. A story of 1080p.

[Sean Malone]

Well, actually it’s $180 worth of Sony ‘eCredits’ that I can use to purchase merchandise from Sony’s online store.
Why the generosity? Because they are being forced to by the courts. It is a settlement from a class action lawsuit.

Backstory: 3 years ago my wife and I decided to take the HDTV plunge and like the good suckers we are, we were drawn to the display model de jour. Best buy had a setup of leather theater chairs, cranked up surround sound and Sony’s 60” XBR Wega rear projection 1080p HDTV that uses LCOS technology (that’s a mouth full!). The Sony XBR Wega had been out for just a few weeks and Best Buy was using it as its premier TV. It was one of the first 1080p on the market. It has two HDMI intputs, DVI etc. It even has a Sony memory stick port. We were told LCOS technology was the BEST and the display model convinced us. We walked out with the 50” model and $3500 poorer (we purchased the Sony entertainment stand with it. Which is actually pretty cool as the base of the TV sits in a molded base and a stainless steel fascia snaps over it for a seamless look with a heavy strap in the back to keep the TV from falling forward).

At the time we didn’t have any 1080p input devices. We upgraded our cable box to the HD version but its output was 1080i and it used a component cable. The TV manual assured us that since the TV is 1080p ‘native’ it displays 1080i progressively so no issue. Life is good.

Fast forward 6 months…Rear projection TV’s all but go the way of the dinosaur as flat screens become the desirable model.

Fast forward another 6 months… Sony and all other manufactures who have an LCOS model announce they are ceasing all production of LCOS TV’s, even though they admit it is a superior quality display, the technology is too expensive over LCD to manufacture. Oh and along with it, no more rear projection TV’s from Sony.

My cable company informed me that they now offer a HD cable box with HDMI output. I traded mine in and was disappointed that my TV reported that it was receiving a 1080i input. Bummer, but it still looked good so life goes on.

I traded my Xbox 360 in for the Xbox 360 Elite which has an HDMI output and true 1080p signal. Again, my TV says it is only receiving 1080i. I hit the interwebs and verify through AV forums that indeed, the Sony LCOS XBR Wega does not accept 1080p signals. Period. It simply displays 1080i progressively in it native format.

Why I outta sue! Where’s my attorney’s number? This is an outrage!! Is that a cold beer? Mmm, beer.

A few weeks ago I get a letter from Sony explaining that someone much more motivated than me, who probably isn’t distracted by a cold beer, did sue and Sony will settle with us victims by sending Sony eCredits. Now, I don’t know if $180 worth of Sony eCredits will heal my wounds, but talking about it here and working with various online support groups is a start, I guess.

Sony maintains innocence and is sticking to this statement;


Sony denies any wrongdoing in connection with the claims in the Lawsuit . The televisions at issue all are 1080p displays with a resolution of 1920x1080 displayed progressively.

Yes, those words sting like daggers and hard for me to read, let alone accept. But life goes on.

Link (http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/news-item.pl?template=EN&news_id=58)

[KLang]

That is silly IMO. It was no secret that the SXRD sets didn't accept a 1080P input until the 3000 series. I have a 2020 55" model and knew about it when I bought the set.

Still a great set too. :thumbup:

Wonder if I've got $180 coming too? ;)

[Sean Malone]

That is silly IMO. It was no secret that the SXRD sets didn't accept a 1080P input until the 3000 series. I have a 2020 55" model and knew about it when I bought the set.

Still a great set too. :thumbup:

Wonder if I've got $180 coming too? ;)

I believe it's only for the 50" and 60" XBR's. That link I posted has the criteria.

[dando]

So now you can get a real game system with a BR player. :p ;)

-Kevin

[Sean Malone]

So now you can get a real game system with a BR player. :p ;)

-Kevin

And play what on it? Gear of War 2? Nope. Halo 3? Nope. :p

[dando]

And play what on it? Gear of War 2? Nope. Halo 3? Nope. :p

Dude. Gran Turismo 4. :thumbup: :)

-Kevin

[cart7]

Fast forward another 6 months… Sony and all other manufactures who have an LCOS model announce they are ceasing all production of LCOS TV’s, even though they admit it is a superior quality display, the technology is too expensive over LCD to manufacture. Oh and along with it, no more rear projection TV’s from Sony.



Have you ever seen the production process of an LCD Panel? Clean room required and a very touchy operation to get them right.

The primary guts of a rear projo LCOS set involve the optical block and some circuit boards. The optics block (sometimes called the engine though this is technically not the correct term as an engine refers to DLP terminology) is the most expensive part of the set.

Of the 2 technologies, DLP and LCOS, LCOS, regardless of brand had the higher failure rate. And I'm not talking about a burned out $200 lamp.

Dirt getting into the optics and burning onto the tiny LCD panels and blistering of colored optical filters within the optical block itself is what led to Sony and most of the others to drop LCOS. Sony has had three different warranty extensions of 3 different model lines of their LCOS sets due to this. It was costing them a fortune in new optical engines.

[Insomniac]

Have you ever seen the production process of an LCD Panel? Clean room required and a very touchy operation to get them right.

The primary guts of a rear projo LCOS set involve the optical block and some circuit boards. The optics block (sometimes called the engine though this is technically not the correct term as an engine refers to DLP terminology) is the most expensive part of the set.

Of the 2 technologies, DLP and LCOS, LCOS, regardless of brand had the higher failure rate. And I'm not talking about a burned out $200 lamp.

Dirt getting into the optics and burning onto the tiny LCD panels and blistering of colored optical filters within the optical block itself is what led to Sony and most of the others to drop LCOS. Sony has had three different warranty extensions of 3 different model lines of their LCOS sets due to this. It was costing them a fortune in new optical engines.

I knew LCoS was damn hard to manufacture when Intel tried and dropped out. If they found the silicon difficult, the yields must've been horrible.

[Sean Malone]

Have you ever seen the production process of an LCD Panel? Clean room required and a very touchy operation to get them right.

The primary guts of a rear projo LCOS set involve the optical block and some circuit boards. The optics block (sometimes called the engine though this is technically not the correct term as an engine refers to DLP terminology) is the most expensive part of the set.

Of the 2 technologies, DLP and LCOS, LCOS, regardless of brand had the higher failure rate. And I'm not talking about a burned out $200 lamp.

Dirt getting into the optics and burning onto the tiny LCD panels and blistering of colored optical filters within the optical block itself is what led to Sony and most of the others to drop LCOS. Sony has had three different warranty extensions of 3 different model lines of their LCOS sets due to this. It was costing them a fortune in new optical engines.

Ours had to have the light engine replaced after a year and a half. My comment was solely based on what the media was reporting at the time.
My LCOS has a better picture than my sisters 6 month old LCD Sony Bravia.

[Stu]

Ours had to have the light engine replaced after a year and a half. My comment was solely based on what the media was reporting at the time.
My LCOS has a better picture than my sisters 6 month old LCD Sony Bravia.

are both properly calibrated?

[Sean Malone]

are both properly calibrated?

Dunno. How do you calibrate a digital TV? Our old analog projection had convergence adjustments but our HDTV doesn't have any sort of owner diagnostics or calibration outside of the basic user menu.

[Stu]

Dunno. How do you calibrate a digital TV? Our old analog projection had convergence adjustments but our HDTV doesn't have any sort of owner diagnostics or calibration outside of the basic user menu.

well there obviously wouldnt be any convergence adjustments to make on a digital tv. thankfully all geometry issues should be fine on a flat panel (I had to center the picture on my DLP tv).

but obvious things like contrast/brightness/color temps/color levels/sharpness/tint should be calibrated. a quick peek at avsforum and a brief trip into the service menu should get you into the more advanced options.

[Sean Malone]

well there obviously wouldnt be any convergence adjustments to make on a digital tv. thankfully all geometry issues should be fine on a flat panel (I had to center the picture on my DLP tv).

but obvious things like contrast/brightness/color temps/color levels/sharpness/tint should be calibrated. a quick peek at avsforum and a brief trip into the service menu should get you into the more advanced options.

I just plugged it into the wall and the magic picture appeared. :gomer:

[dando]

Dunno. How do you calibrate a digital TV? Our old analog projection had convergence adjustments but our HDTV doesn't have any sort of owner diagnostics or calibration outside of the basic user menu.

You buy a DVD like Avia or Video Essentials to calibrate the color settings, etc. It helps immensely. Plus, the video could be set to a different mode that could affect the picture b/w the two sets, or the factory settings could be bad on the Bravia. I don't doubt the LCoS is likely better than the LCD, tho. LCDs are dominating the market because of the ease to mfg and they are the cheapest on the market.

-Kevin

[Stu]

I just plugged it into the wall and the magic picture appeared. :gomer:

thats like buying an 80,000 car and driving it with the parking brake on.

[KLang]

If CNET has reviewed your set they likely did some calibration and documented the settings with the review. It is a good starting point.

[dando]

If CNET has reviewed your set they likely did some calibration and documented the settings with the review. It is a good starting point.

Or AVS Forum has a 300 page thread on the settings..... :saywhat:

-Kevin

[KLang]

Or AVS Forum has a 300 page thread on the settings..... :saywhat:

:laugh: The few times I've tried to wade through one of those threads CNET usually gets mentioned as the starting point. I start there and then pop in Video Essentials.

I also bought a Spyder colorometer and a copy of Calman but I just can't find the time to sit down and learn how to use them. :irked:

[Insomniac]

You buy a DVD like Avia or Video Essentials to calibrate the color settings, etc. It helps immensely. Plus, the video could be set to a different mode that could affect the picture b/w the two sets, or the factory settings could be bad on the Bravia. I don't doubt the LCoS is likely better than the LCD, tho. LCDs are dominating the market because of the ease to mfg and they are the cheapest on the market.

-Kevin

I can't get anything accomplished with Video Essentials. The adjustment is so fine that the blue filter is useless. Great for CRTs, but you put your new TV in the Movie/Film mode and the colors are close enough that you need ISF calibration from there.

[oddlycalm]

LCDs are dominating the market because of the ease to mfg and they are the cheapest on the market.
That. The industry cares not at all about the best quality. In addition to scaling well in manufacturing, LCD's are convenient to ship, warehouse, and deliver. With the advent of LED backlighting they also have lower current draw and radiated heat.

Plasma is all but gone and all those cool technologies like OLED that we heard about 5yrs ago don't seem to be much closer. You can get a Vizio 46" LCD for less than $900 at Costco and most people can't tell the difference in picture quality and don't care even if they could.

oc

[dando]

I can't get anything accomplished with Video Essentials. The adjustment is so fine that the blue filter is useless. Great for CRTs, but you put your new TV in the Movie/Film mode and the colors are close enough that you need ISF calibration from there.

Correct. I used VE for my old CRT projo (a $4K doorstop now since I never could get the convergence right :irked:), but didn't even bother with my DLP projo. Plus, I'm also easily distracted by beer. In fact, I can hear a Yuenling calling my name now. Mmmmm, beer..... :)

-Kevin

[Sean Malone]

Ok, I got home and made some adjustments, I took out some blue, added a little yellow and switched the audio to 'Tru-surround'. All I can say is WOW!!:)

[G.]

Ok, I got home and made some adjustments, I took out some blue, added a little yellow and switched the audio to 'Tru-surround'. All I can say is WOW!!:)Lemme get this straight.

You are tech-savy enough to DL streaming HD movies and watch them via the web, yet you can't adjust the COLOR on your tv?!?

My mom can do that. Accorse, she can drive a crapwagon as well.

:gomer:

[Sean Malone]

Lemme get this straight.

You are tech-savy enough to DL streaming HD movies and watch them via the web, yet you can't adjust the COLOR on your tv?!?

My mom can do that. Accorse, she can drive a crapwagon as well.

:gomer:

We can't all be perfect.

Try this though; +2 blue, -3 red, video mode set to 'vivid', sharpness +10. It's amazing!

I used this exact setup on the CRT TV I have out on my lania and it made it look like a HDTV!!! I'm thinking of patenting.

[Insomniac]

We can't all be perfect.

Try this though; +2 blue, -3 red, video mode set to 'vivid', sharpness +10. It's amazing!

I used this exact setup on the CRT TV I have out on my lania and it made it look like a HDTV!!! I'm thinking of patenting.

Everyone on AVS forum just cringed. ;)