View Full Version : F-1 Japan...anyone up?
TrueBrit
10-12-08, 12:28 AM
...hello?
TrueBrit
10-12-08, 12:37 AM
Massa needs to get a black flag for that punt...:mad:
Ozarkian
10-12-08, 12:46 AM
First lap reminded me of a GP2 start.
Accipiter
10-12-08, 12:55 AM
Hamilton's immaturity showed through again on that start.
What the heck are they investigating Kimi for?
TrueBrit
10-12-08, 01:02 AM
Wow....let's not try to be so blatant next time in our favouritism shall we FIA....:rolleyes::yuck:
I thought the WWE was a farce but this takes the cake...
Nice to see Sebastien leading the race.
Accipiter
10-12-08, 01:05 AM
Go Sebass! If he's 1-stopping... Well, dream on, but...
Is it me or do they always give him lousy stops?
TrueBrit
10-12-08, 02:09 AM
Interesting race...Super Grass wins back-to-back...
Massa the Menace under investigation after the race...if it were any other car than a Fiat I'd say he'd get parked for the next race...of course that isn't the case so he'll probably just lose the one point from this race and with a nod and a wink told not to do it again...unless he hits a silver car..:yuck:
ilferrari
10-12-08, 02:42 AM
Penalizing Hamilton was absolutely ridiculous. He has every right to make his move, he just misjudged it a little. They shouldn't have penalized Massa either, although he maybe should have backed out of it, Hamilton should have given him a car's width too. RACING INCIDENTS, both of them.
ilferrari
10-12-08, 04:06 AM
Bourdais penalized for his collision with Massa, gets demoted from sixth to tenth. :thumdown: :shakehead
Is Max Mosley working with the stewards? They seem to love punishing people.
THe race seemed too long so I fell asleep. I see Bourdais finished in the points. :thumbup:
Bourdais penalized for his collision with Massa, gets demoted from sixth to tenth. :thumdown: :shakehead
Is Max Mosley working with the stewards? They seem to love punishing people.
Guess I should have read the rest of the thread first. :flame:
Bourdais penalized for his collision with Massa, gets demoted from sixth to tenth. :thumdown: :shakehead
Is Max Mosley working with the stewards? They seem to love punishing people.
WHAT!?!?!? Thats absurd! :rolleyes::thumdown:
I watched the Formula, ooops, I mean Ferrari 1 race last night. :rolleyes: I guess they've ever heard of "one of dem racin' deals," huh?
Both Lewis Hamilton and the powers-that-be in F1 seem to want Ferrari to win, so why don' they just give them the d*mn championship?
I won't be up at 3:00 am to watch China.
Mary
Methanolandbrats
10-12-08, 09:26 AM
Hamilton is a ****ing idiot. I thought Monty was the quickest dumbass ever, but Hamilton raises the bar. He stands a good chance of throwing away another WDC. :laugh:
The FIA rulings are more absurd every day. Lewis overcooks it in turn one, which is often a cluster*(&k, and is given a penalty for forcing another driver on the grass. At Belgium, Kimi forces Lewis on the grass and Lewis passes Kimi fairly yet Lewis gets a penalty. The FIA sucks beyond belief.
Insomniac
10-12-08, 12:56 PM
I think I may change my mind that Hamilton is smarter than PT. He sees red (not the Ferrari variety) and does some not so smart things championship wise. He Stupid Mario'd T1 and the only reason no one says it is he was fortunate enough not to take anyone out.
The Japanese broadcast sucked. Any other race and we would've seen a lot of replays of the start. I mean, Kubica and Alonso ended up out front and something else happened to Massa and Hamilton to move them back more.
Alonso thinking about Honda? I hope he's not that crazy. Re-up with Renault with the same "I can leave" deal you have this year. Don't go to Honda.
I felt bad for Heikki. And Bourdais/Massa. I mean, at least this time they said they'd investigate after the race (even though there were 15 laps left), but from the replay (no overhead), it looked like Bourdais was over and there was no where for him to go with an approaching Massa. That's either on Massa or just let go. I hope they had a different view than we saw on TV. That feeds Ferrari bias.
cameraman
10-12-08, 12:57 PM
A 25 second penalty for Bourdais???
What race were the stewards watching?
The term bull **** comes to mind:flame:
If there were 15 laps left, why couldn't they make a decision in time for him to complete a drive through penalty? Sounds like they enjoy manipulating the outcome of the race.
robot9000
10-12-08, 02:00 PM
That call on Seabass was utter ******** !! ****in F1 stewarts. I guess its true the F in F1 stands for Ferrari :flame:
Insomniac
10-12-08, 02:26 PM
If there were 15 laps left, why couldn't they make a decision in time for him to complete a drive through penalty? Sounds like they enjoy manipulating the outcome of the race.
I have no idea. I was surprised that the text they throw up on the screen about investigating said "after the race". So I assume they decided they weren't going to review it until later. I don't know why Whiting doesn't just review the video and make a call. Is it some type of reward/lickback to have different stewards at each race?
Accipiter
10-12-08, 02:41 PM
Bourdais penalized for his collision with Massa, gets demoted from sixth to tenth. :thumdown: :shakehead
Is Max Mosley working with the stewards? They seem to love punishing people.
Yes. Yes he is. The guy hired to oversee the stewards at every race is a Max & Bernie toady. This retarded call on Bourdais has finally convinced me that the Ferrari International Assistance conspiracy is real.
Methanolandbrats
10-12-08, 02:54 PM
http://www.amdscooter.com/tinfoil-hat.jpg
Hard Driver
10-12-08, 07:00 PM
A 25 second penalty for Bourdais???
What race were the stewards watching?
The term bull **** comes to mind:flame:
How to give Massa more points is the total reason for this penalty. Utter BS. Massa turned down into Bourdais. You know if the two cars were reveresed, Bourdais would still be getting the penalty.
Massa was playing demolition derby out there hitting Hamilton and Bourdais. Both incidents were 100% Massa's fault.
Gee, whaddaya think, TB? Massa didn't lose a point and get sent back...he gained a point and moves up! I can't blame him though, he just happens to be in a red car. At least Varsha has his priorities right, he's going to do the Barrett-Jackson thing next week.
I think nice people have a tendency to think, "Surely things are not as corrupt as they appear."
If you are one of those people, please be assured, YES THEY ARE AS CORRUPT AS THEY LOOK!
F1 is dead.
Methanolandbrats
10-12-08, 10:22 PM
I think nice people have a tendency to think, "Surely things are not as corrupt as they appear."
If you are one of those people, please be assured, YES THEY ARE AS CORRUPT AS THEY LOOK!
F1 is dead. OK, I watched it. Swore I would'nt because Fuji is such a POS track and I'm so pissed about Singabore and Canada. Anyway, today sucked. Massa the Impaler should have been docked positions. Hamilton is a moron, but not as blatant as Massa's antics. The whole thing was crap. I can't believe I'm saying that, but I really am beginning to not care.
I am not sure how many races I have skipped now. My DVR records them, and I erase them. I think I will review this one to see the Bourdais incident, but I am not going to spend more than 1/2 hour on it.
I am just not interested in Greedo Ecclestone presents Formula Asia powered by Nazi S&M Hookers.
Andrew Longman
10-13-08, 08:16 AM
A 25 second penalty for Bourdais???
What race were the stewards watching?
The term bull **** comes to mind:flame:
I am having a real hard time with F1 and am losing interest. Most of all, I know whatever uproar there will be about their officiating will not just be ignored but rather only harden them to be more outrageous.
If Mosley can endure his ass slapping ordeal with an affirming vote, they will never be too embarrassed by any ruling in favor of Ferrari
Pilgrims Drop
10-13-08, 10:08 AM
Wow... were we watching the same race??? Or is everyones eyes a bit tinted with the colors of Union Jack???
The boy wonder who has won nothing makes another bonehead move and everyone is ok with it... he almost took out his own teammate trying to get in position to outbreak himself and everyone else into turn one... there was absolutly no chance in *pip* he would've made that stick...
And no Massa is no better... he has never been a racer... he cannot make a pass stick to save his life unless he has a 10 second per lap advantage... but to Massas credit he atleast tried to make the corner unlike some other so called "stars"
The boy wonder now vows to win the next 2 races... isn't this the same guy who said prior to the GP of Japan that "Ive learned from last year and will be smarter this time around"... I bet he stuffs it in the kitty litter in China as he did last time...
I never thought i'd say this but I sure miss Schumacher... he could atleast back up what his mouth said on the track... Formula One... BS... Farcial 1 is more like it
Sean Malone
10-13-08, 10:38 AM
Bourdais to Renault in '09? Could be a break out year for Seabass. Renault is gaining.
Alonso to Honda? Hmmm, I would expect him to change his mind.
Insomniac
10-13-08, 11:07 AM
Bourdais to Renault in '09? Could be a break out year for Seabass. Renault is gaining.
Alonso to Honda? Hmmm, I would expect him to change his mind.
They said they were waiting for Alonso to decide. I assume he'd decide no. Renault is way better than Honda. Bourdais to Renault would be interesting. A Frenchman at a France based team. I think he'd be an upgrade over Piquet, but he's still inconsistent.
oddlycalm
10-13-08, 02:15 PM
The FIA needs to get back to a single professional steward for F1 races. They are losing credibility by the week with the current panel of amatuer hour Max toadies. The fact that they don't realize that, or don't care, says it all.
oc
Wow... were we watching the same race??? Or is everyones eyes a bit tinted with the colors of Union Jack???
My complaint isn't about Lewis Hamilton being channeling stupid; it is about the F1 establishment's channeling of the same stupidity. They should know better (so should I for thinking it might be different).
Mary
Boatdesigner
10-13-08, 04:42 PM
I thought the Massa vs. Seb incident was one of those racing deals. When I first saw it, I thought Seb was at fault as Massa should have had the right of way coming down the straight at high speed, while Seb was accelerating from the pits. Don't they have a rule regarding how to blend in with traffic upon leaving the pits?
As for Massa's other incident with LH, it seems to me LH got a bit of his own medicine. Massa was just trying to pass him with all four wheels on the curb, nothing LH wouldn't have done if the roles were reversed. They are racing for the championship, not just taking a Sunday drive.
I thought the Massa vs. Seb incident was one of those racing deals. When I first saw it, I thought Seb was at fault as Massa should have had the right of way coming down the straight at high speed, while Seb was accelerating from the pits. Don't they have a rule regarding how to blend in with traffic upon leaving the pits?
Blend my eye. The mofo is on the curb. How much farther can he pull over for Massa? That was his corner.
courtesy autosport.com (http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/117176)
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2028/20315874kd6.jpg
Bourdais should just take Massa out in the next race. Sure the stewards would be mad, but he'd be a hero to millions.
PS: Did anyone else think Massa passing Mark Weber via the pit lane was against the 'new' regulations? I thought it was badass, but according to the Spa precedent, isn't passing off the racing surface a no-no?
PS: Did anyone else think Massa passing Mark Weber via the pit lane was against the 'new' regulations? I thought it was badass, but according to the Spa precedent, isn't passing off the racing surface a no-no?
I was wondering the same thing while watching the race last night. Just more credence to conspiracy theorists. :shakehead Maybe the F in F1 (or FIA) really does stand for Ferrari.
oddlycalm
10-14-08, 03:15 PM
Blend my eye. The mofo is on the curb. How much farther can he pull over for Massa? That was his corner.
Yep, Massa had plenty of time in the braking zone to see Bourdais and nearly the entire track surface to avoid him and still managed to drive right into him yet it's Bourdais that is penalized. What else is Bourdais supposed to do, stop and wait for a moment where there are no cars coming? It's not like the pit out or in are difficult at Fuji...:shakehead
oc
nissan gtp
10-14-08, 04:12 PM
Bourdais should just take Massa out in the next race. Sure the stewards would be mad, but he'd be a hero to millions.
give him a "Scott Speed" ? :rofl:
I'd like to see him do that too. :thumbup:
nissan gtp
10-14-08, 04:14 PM
What else is Bourdais supposed to do, stop and wait for a moment where there are no RED cars coming?
oc
fixed.
and the answer is yes, Bourdais should have (a) stopped, (b) run off the road to get out of the way, (c) both
Reminds me of a blurb from somewhere about old laws that were still on the books, but no longer applied. There was one from the midwest that required automoblie owners to pull their car to the side of the road and dismantle it if approached by a horse that objected to its presence. :laugh:
Bourdais should put a sticker on his ride for next week:
I BRAKE FOR PONIES.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/343/344pxferrarilogosvghc0.png
Boatdesigner
10-15-08, 12:27 AM
Blend my eye. The mofo is on the curb. How much farther can he pull over for Massa? That was his corner.
I never said Seb wasn't over as far as he could get. I said it looked like a racing accident. As far as Seb having that corner, if he was ahead of him, how did his front wheel impact Massa's rear wheel when Massa turned in? Did Massa turn in too early, yes. Could Seb have braked or been less aggressive coming out of the pits, yes. I think there was fault on both sides and don't think Seb should have been penalized. But I can't lay all the blame on Massa though.
I still don't see why the guy leaving the pits at 60 mph should have the right of way over the guy coming down the straight at 200 mph. Seems to me the guy on the straight has far less time to react, especially if he can't see the car coming down the pit road until he passes the end of the barrier at pit out. Can they really see over that barrier to know someone is exiting the pits as they are coming down the straight? Is there a signal they can see warning them of a car coming out? I have never seen one.
The most dangerous move I saw during the race was when Webber pushed Massa over to the wall. I thought they would have given him a penalty for that, but they didn't. Overall, I think the officials are getting too involved with the racing. Things happen at high speed and you don't always make the right decision when you only have a portion of a second to do it.
chop456
10-15-08, 01:42 AM
Did anyone else think Massa passing Mark Weber via the pit lane was against the 'new' regulations? I thought it was badass, but according to the Spa precedent, isn't passing off the racing surface a no-no?
The pavement is painted red because it's legal for red cars to use it as part of the racing surface. Duh.
And I'd like nothing more than to see Bourdais stuff Massa on the last lap at Interlagos and cost him the championship. :laugh:
Interesting race...Super Grass wins back-to-back...
No one expects the Spanish Resurrection!
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5751/alonsovk8.jpg http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8095/fernandoalonsoenbarcelomr0.jpg http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/4438/fernandoalonsosmilingvero5.jpg
indyfan31
10-15-08, 10:11 AM
Did Massa turn in too early, yes.
That's it, that's the only thing that matters. He knew Bourdais was there and still turned in. Whether out of arrogance or incompetence he still did it.
I still don't see why the guy leaving the pits at 60 mph should have the right of way over the guy coming down the straight at 200 mph. Seems to me the guy on the straight has far less time to react, especially if he can't see the car coming down the pit road until he passes the end of the barrier at pit out. Can they really see over that barrier to know someone is exiting the pits as they are coming down the straight? Is there a signal they can see warning them of a car coming out? I have never seen one.
What happens on the straight doesn't matter, it's what happens after the end of the pit wall that counts. If you see a car coming out of the pits that means he's in front of you and you have to account for him being in the turn at the same time you are. If you don't see him, he's behind you and it doesn't matter. Either way, if you're going faster you're responsible for getting around the slower car safely.
Boatdesigner
10-15-08, 08:41 PM
I just watched the video replays on the F1 website showing the Massa/SB incident. The last angle is an onboard shot from Massa's car showing he was ahead by half a car length when they entered the braking zone. If you pause the video as they are going over the line at the end of pit road, you can see that Massa is clearly ahead. As I said before, I don't think anyone should have been penalized.
By the way, using some of the same logic as used in the FM/SB incident, then if you look at the video of Hamilton and Massa coming together, Hamilton also turned in too early. Massa was as far over as he could go, but Hamilton dove for the apex knowing Massa was there.:D (Sarcasm detectors on please!)
indyfan31
10-16-08, 01:09 AM
If you look at the picture in Gnam's post, you'll see they're well into the turn and still even. Bourdais is well out of the way. Massa knew exactly where the Torro Rosso was, and where it would be at every point in that turn. He had his head up his arse here and when he punted Hamilton.
Boatdesigner
10-16-08, 10:02 AM
If you look at the picture in Gnam's post, you'll see they're well into the turn and still even. Bourdais is well out of the way. Massa knew exactly where the Torro Rosso was, and where it would be at every point in that turn. He had his head up his arse here and when he punted Hamilton.
I did look at that photo. I was responding to the earlier post that specifically said that Bourdais was AHEAD of Massa at the end of pit road, therefore Bourdais had the right of way into the corner. Go back and watch the video carefully, pausing as the cars are going over the white line in the top of the photo. Massa is clearly ahead of Bourdais at that point. You will also notice from the in car shot that it is unlikely Massa could see Bourdais when he turned in. He turned in on the assumption he was clear of Bourdais, it was a bad assumption. Just a racing accident.
This isn't something that has never happened before in the history of racing. It is actually pretty common for two cars to come together when one misjudges the distance to another. Bourdais should NOT have been penalized, but I also don't think Massa should have been either.
oddlycalm
10-16-08, 05:39 PM
This isn't something that has never happened before in the history of racing. It is actually pretty common for two cars to come together when one misjudges the distance to another. Bourdais should NOT have been penalized, but I also don't think Massa should have been either.
Agreed, it happens and it's not aggressive or reckless behavior. Apparently the drivers are tired of the steward's lack of professionalism.
Drivers call for steward system overhaul (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71436)
oc
Anyone wanna bet they pick a former Ferrari driver? :p
Crazy Dave Coulthard is looking for a gig. :gomer:
Boatdesigner
10-17-08, 10:22 AM
Although DC has made some pretty boneheaded moves the last couple of years, he may actually be pretty good at the steward thing. Maybe him and RB should be a tag team, they'll both need something to keep them busy.:D
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