View Full Version : U.S. Postal Service layoffs
I read about this last week, actually. 40,000 jobs may be cut (http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=9247633)
They lost $2 billion dollars? :eek:
Sean Malone
11-06-08, 09:53 PM
I read about this last week, actually. 40,000 jobs may be cut (http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=9247633)
They lost $2 billion dollars? :eek:
'09 may be a shocker. I read yesterday to expect 3 MILLION jobs lost next year due to 50% decrease in US autosales this past quarter.
Andrew Longman
11-07-08, 10:44 AM
But despite what may happen, Pepper says customers will not feel the pain they're going through. "The general public when it takes place won't se any decrease in service.. They largely won't know about it."
So why weren't those jobs eliminated before?
So why weren't those jobs eliminated before?
unions and government inefficiency.
Andrew Longman
11-07-08, 11:30 AM
unions and government inefficiency.
For sure, but I spent a summer being a "casual carrier" for the USPS when I was in college. I subbed for carriers going on vacation.
I can attest to a lot inefficiency. My job was not really needed because often no one was on vacation or at best was needed a few hours a day. When I finished I asked for more work but was told by management to "disappear" because if he gave me anything he was tempting a complaint from the union -- showing them that more work was possible.
But on the other hand there are somethings that are hard to improve. Carriers sort and deliver mail on their routes and route size is set by peak mail periods --Wednesdays when a lot of bulk advertisement goes out and Christmas season. The who physical sorting process is built for that and it would be very difficult to vary routes and route sizes according to load. And of course there is one carrier per route with some duplication because you can't work people six days a week.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make it more efficient, but unless you made all mail uniform in terms of packaging and labeling with bar code readers like we have today I can't see how to do it.
For sure, but I spent a summer being a "casual carrier" for the USPS when I was in college. I subbed for carriers going on vacation.
I can attest to a lot inefficiency. My job was not really needed because often no one was on vacation or at best was needed a few hours a day. When I finished I asked for more work but was told by management to "disappear" because if he gave me anything he was tempting a complaint from the union -- showing them that more work was possible.
But on the other hand there are somethings that are hard to improve. Carriers sort and deliver mail on their routes and route size is set by peak mail periods --Wednesdays when a lot of bulk advertisement goes out and Christmas season. The who physical sorting process is built for that and it would be very difficult to vary routes and route sizes according to load. And of course there is one carrier per route with some duplication because you can't work people six days a week.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make it more efficient, but unless you made all mail uniform in terms of packaging and labeling with bar code readers like we have today I can't see how to do it.
get rid of saturday mail delivery.
Methanolandbrats
11-07-08, 12:08 PM
I know three people who work for the postal service. One works inside and two are carriers, one on a foot route, the other on a jeep route. All three people work like dogs and have to put up with an ahole overseeing them. When people complain about the postal service inefficiancy, I wonder where it is because it sure is'nt the carriers fault. Perhaps there is a middle level of "supervisors" who don't do anything. I view the postal service as just that, a government service and I don't really care if it makes money or not, I just need my ****ing mail. Some people argue we should privitize the postal service. No way. Imagine Charter Cable delivering your mail :saywhat: You'd have to lease an official mail box based on the volume of mail you receive. You would have to pay an installer to put the official box up. There would be a monthly fee for basic service of three letters a day. After that there would be an excess volume charge of who knows what per item. Hell no.
Sean Malone
11-07-08, 12:13 PM
I know three people who work for the postal service. One works inside and two are carriers, one on a foot route, the other on a jeep route. All three people work like dogs and have to put up with an ahole overseeing them. When people complain about the postal service inefficiancy, I wonder where it is because it sure is'nt the carriers fault. Perhaps there is a middle level of "supervisors" who don't do anything. I view the postal service as just that, a government service and I don't really care if it makes money or not, I just need my ****ing mail. Some people argue we should privitize the postal service. No way. Imagine Charter Cable delivering your mail :saywhat: You'd have to lease an official mail box based on the volume of mail you receive. You would have to pay an installer to put the official box up. There would be a monthly fee for basic service of three letters a day. After that there would be an excess volume charge of who knows what per item. Hell no.
Amen. There's still an Amtrak, there will still be a USPS.
Why not just raise the rates to cover their costs? The price to mail a letter from one end of the country to the other is still a bargain IMO.
I know three people who work for the postal service. One works inside and two are carriers, one on a foot route, the other on a jeep route. All three people work like dogs and have to put up with an ahole overseeing them. When people complain about the postal service inefficiancy, I wonder where it is because it sure is'nt the carriers fault. Perhaps there is a middle level of "supervisors" who don't do anything. I view the postal service as just that, a government service and I don't really care if it makes money or not, I just need my ****ing mail. Some people argue we should privitize the postal service. No way. Imagine Charter Cable delivering your mail :saywhat: You'd have to lease an official mail box based on the volume of mail you receive. You would have to pay an installer to put the official box up. There would be a monthly fee for basic service of three letters a day. After that there would be an excess volume charge of who knows what per item. Hell no.
yea because thats exactly how UPS, FedEx, and DHL all operate.
Why not just raise the rates to cover their costs? The price to mail a letter from one end of the country to the other is still a bargain IMO.
they've done that a lot recently already. doesnt seem to be working.
if they can maintain the same level of production with fewer people working (as they say they can), why would you not encourage that? why would you be more willing to pay more in postage just so they can be inefficient and employ more people?
I know three people who work for the postal service. One works inside and two are carriers, one on a foot route, the other on a jeep route. All three people work like dogs and have to put up with an ahole overseeing them. When people complain about the postal service inefficiancy, I wonder where it is because it sure is'nt the carriers fault. Perhaps there is a middle level of "supervisors" who don't do anything. I view the postal service as just that, a government service and I don't really care if it makes money or not, I just need my ****ing mail. Some people argue we should privitize the postal service. No way. Imagine Charter Cable delivering your mail :saywhat: You'd have to lease an official mail box based on the volume of mail you receive. You would have to pay an installer to put the official box up. There would be a monthly fee for basic service of three letters a day. After that there would be an excess volume charge of who knows what per item. Hell no.
i know a guy at the post office who once called me on my cell because he was trying to track down a package that had not yet been delivered. it was amazing customer service.
i also have been in line at the post office when there were 20 people in front of me, and the teller closed one of the lines because it was time for her 15 minute break. the attitude that, "its my break so i dont care how long these people have to wait in line", is the inefficiency that i am talking about.
Amen. There's still an Amtrak, there will still be a USPS.
if the USPS is being compared to Amtrak, then they should just lock the doors right now.
Why not just raise the rates to cover their costs? The price to mail a letter from one end of the country to the other is still a bargain IMO.
why dont we apply this logic to Ford. they are struggling. they should just jack the price of cars up 10k. that'll solve everything.
Methanolandbrats
11-07-08, 02:35 PM
i know a guy at the post office who once called me on my cell because he was trying to track down a package that had not yet been delivered. it was amazing customer service.
i also have been in line at the post office when there were 20 people in front of me, and the teller closed one of the lines because it was time for her 15 minute break. the attitude that, "its my break so i dont care how long these people have to wait in line", is the inefficiency that i am talking about.
Government workers should be chained to their posts, wear diapers so they don't waste time in the bathroom and the public should be encouraged to ridicule them. If they get hungry, toss crusts of stale bread at them. :shakehead
Michaelhatesfans
11-07-08, 03:12 PM
I wonder how much of this was from the fuel costs spiking last year? Between the street vehicles and flights, they must use a staggering amount of fuel.
Government workers should be chained to their posts, wear diapers so they don't waste time in the bathroom and the public should be encouraged to ridicule them. If they get hungry, toss crusts of stale bread at them. :shakehead
yea thats exactly what i said. :rolleyes:
yea thats exactly what i said. :rolleyes:
What did you really mean? If the long line never goes away should they just not have a break to grab a snack or go to the restroom?
What did you really mean? If the long line never goes away should they just not have a break to grab a snack or go to the restroom?
i mean they shouldnt schedule breaks at notoriously busy times in the day, like between 5 and 6 when people get out of work and want to get to the post office before it closes.
why dont we apply this logic to Ford. they are struggling. they should just jack the price of cars up 10k. that'll solve everything.
Ford is a private company the post office is not. If they have 40k unneeded employees then fine get rid of them. There is no reason for the USPS to run at a loss.
Ford is a private company the post office is not. If they have 40k unneeded employees then fine get rid of them. There is no reason for the USPS to run at a loss.
that should be said for all government organizations but its never the case.
Michaelhatesfans
11-07-08, 11:48 PM
There is no reason for the USPS to run at a loss.
I think that kind of depends upon how much you're willing to pay for a stamp (not to mention the increased prices in services so that people don't go broke sending out their bills...)
I believe certain classes of mail can have its postage raised without effecting postage on letters and bills. 90% of what appears in my mail box I have no use for. It goes straight into the recycle bin. Raise the postage on that crap.
cameraman
11-08-08, 12:12 AM
There is no reason for the USPS to run at a loss.
The USPS is a screaming deal when compared to the cost of mail anywhere else on the planet. A standard first class letter in Germany is 0.55 EUR, that rings up to be $0.70. And that is for the first 0.7 ounce not the first 1.0 ounce like here. All other rates are equally or more expensive. Anyone who thinks that it can be privatized for less is a fool or a liar.
Which isn't to say that it couldn't be made more efficient but anyone claiming that UPS or FedEx could serve every address 6 days a week for less is a fool.
cameraman
11-08-08, 12:14 AM
I believe certain classes of mail can have its postage raised without effecting postage on letters and bills. 90% of what appears in my mail box I have no use for. It goes straight into the recycle bin. Raise the postage on that crap.
Dude that crap is what subsidizes the mail delivery for the stuff that you want to get. Take away the bulk mail and your real mail doubles in cost.
Dude that crap is what subsidizes the mail delivery for the stuff that you want to get. Take away the bulk mail and your real mail doubles in cost.
I know. Maybe I can rig up a postal spam filter. :D
Anyone who thinks that it can be privatized for less is a fool or a liar.
Yea because a private postal company wouldn't receive subsidies.
Rogue Leader
11-08-08, 10:42 AM
i also have been in line at the post office when there were 20 people in front of me, and the teller closed one of the lines because it was time for her 15 minute break. the attitude that, "its my break so i dont care how long these people have to wait in line", is the inefficiency that i am talking about.
Thats why I avoid the post office in my town and go to the one the next town over. That and the tellers at this one have a 1st grade mental capacity....
extramundane
11-08-08, 10:58 AM
Thats why I avoid the post office in my town and go to the one the next town over. That and the tellers at this one have a 1st grade mental capacity....
The 24/7 postal machines are a godsend. Thanks to them, the only time I've used a teller in the last ~4 years was to pick up mail from a vacation hold.
Michaelhatesfans
11-08-08, 01:40 PM
Yea because a private postal company wouldn't receive subsidies.
If you're going to have to subsidize it anyway, then I say keep it the way it is. I'd rather not have a stripped down version of it that looks good to the shareholders but leaves me wondering why I haven't received half of my mail.
KaBoom21
11-08-08, 03:29 PM
For sure, but I spent a summer being a "casual carrier" for the USPS when I was in college. I subbed for carriers going on vacation.
I can attest to a lot inefficiency. My job was not really needed because often no one was on vacation or at best was needed a few hours a day. When I finished I asked for more work but was told by management to "disappear" because if he gave me anything he was tempting a complaint from the union -- showing them that more work was possible.
.
Hilarious. It's like you wrote that for me, except I did it for 2 summers.
If you're going to have to subsidize it anyway, then I say keep it the way it is. I'd rather not have a stripped down version of it that looks good to the shareholders but leaves me wondering why I haven't received half of my mail.
ups and fedex are more accountable for delivery of your mail. they tell you exactly how many days its going to take. whereas priority mail for example is roughly 2-3 days, but theres no definitive time frame. could be 2 days could be 10. doesnt matter to them.
Michaelhatesfans
11-08-08, 09:38 PM
ups and fedex are more accountable for delivery of your mail. they tell you exactly how many days its going to take. whereas priority mail for example is roughly 2-3 days, but theres no definitive time frame. could be 2 days could be 10. doesnt matter to them.
Apples and Oranges. UPS, Fed Ex, and that other company that delivers packages while dressed as Hot Dog On A Stick employees don't serve every house in the nation six days a week. And as far as accountability goes, I feel like I can hold a politician's feet to the fire better than I can of the CEO of a private company who gets a multi-year billion dollar deal to deliver my mail. Mind you, I'm not saying that the USPS couldn't run a tighter ship.
Andrew Longman
11-08-08, 10:28 PM
Hilarious. It's like you wrote that for me, except I did it for 2 summers.
The summer I did it was the summer the Shah was thrown out. With the gas crisis no one wanted to take a vacation, but they were going to fill the position or it would be cut the next year.
Most of that summer I spent preparing to play my way onto the football team as a Punter/PK. Most days I threw a duffle bag full of footballs in the back of the jeep and headed over to practice fields to kick and run for 4-6 hours -- while being paid I think about $17/hour. I got my effective PK range to 47 yards and made the team that Fall. :D
I did the same thing, Andrew, but they worked me to death that summer. I remember one house on a route I would fill every Saturday that had dingos in the yard. Yes, those dog-like things that steal babies in Australia. One time I used the USPS issued pepper spray on one of them, and I swear that the damned thing laughed at me!
Since then I have always had a lot of respect for the USPS and the work the people there do. Not an easy job.
And as far as accountability goes, I feel like I can hold a politician's feet to the fire better than I can of the CEO of a private company who gets a multi-year billion dollar deal to deliver my mail. Mind you, I'm not saying that the USPS couldn't run a tighter ship.
if customers feel that UPS is not delivering their packages on time and with care, then they can go to FedEx or DHL.
if customers feel that the USPS is not delivering their mail on time and with care, then they have no other viable options.
chop456
11-09-08, 10:58 AM
^ Seems like the perfect entrepreneurial opportunity for an enterprising young man with all the answers such as yourself.
^ Seems like the perfect entrepreneurial opportunity for an enterprising young man with all the answers such as yourself.
except that you can't compete with the post office because no one else is legally allowed to use mailboxes.
but i'll give you an A for effort in making a sarcastic remark towards me.
And I don't want a private company delivering my mail. What if it's bought out by foreign interests?
Andrew Longman
11-09-08, 12:40 PM
except that you can't compete with the post office because no one else is legally allowed to use mailboxes.
but i'll give you an A for effort in making a sarcastic remark towards me.
Also FedEx, et al won't deliver to every address
And they charge a heck of a lot more... but for a higher level of service.
Andrew Longman
11-09-08, 12:42 PM
I did the same thing, Andrew, but they worked me to death that summer. I remember one house on a route I would fill every Saturday that had dingos in the yard. Yes, those dog-like things that steal babies in Australia. One time I used the USPS issued pepper spray on one of them, and I swear that the damned thing laughed at me!
Since then I have always had a lot of respect for the USPS and the work the people there do. Not an easy job.
I had a German Shepard jump through a screen door at me which I sprayed with that red and white can of mace.
I had another dog attack my jeep, literally biting at the tires but ignored me. I took it was because I didn't wear a uniform.
Michaelhatesfans
11-09-08, 02:05 PM
except that you can't compete with the post office because no one else is legally allowed to use mailboxes.
Hey, don't let The Man hold you down.
devilmaster
11-09-08, 02:22 PM
:rofl::laugh:
Methanolandbrats
11-09-08, 02:38 PM
but i'll give you an A for effort in making a sarcastic remark towards me.
Enduring the pain of a sarcastic remark is equalled only by the agony of having to stand in line.
JLMannin
11-09-08, 10:31 PM
except that you can't compete with the post office because no one else is legally allowed to use mailboxes.
but i'll give you an A for effort in making a sarcastic remark towards me.
I'll give Chop an "A" for making a really good point. The fact that it was a sarcastic remark is just icing on the cake.
chop456
11-10-08, 03:50 AM
Unions and government inefficiency
About 8,000 job cuts reportedly may be announced tomorrow, when DHL's parent company releases its quarterly earnings report. (http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/09/news/companies/dhl/?postversion=2008110922)
This represents approximately 25% of their US workforce as compared to 6% of the USPS being cut.
Obviously DHL must have 4x the unions and government inefficiency. :thumbup:
About 8,000 job cuts reportedly may be announced tomorrow, when DHL's parent company releases its quarterly earnings report. (http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/09/news/companies/dhl/?postversion=2008110922)
This represents approximately 25% of their US workforce as compared to 6% of the USPS being cut.
Obviously DHL must have 4x the unions and government inefficiency. :thumbup:
no it just means they've found a way to be more efficient. ;)
obviously another reason is the slowing economy. fewer sales means fewer shipments means fewer people needed for deliveries.
Methanolandbrats
11-10-08, 09:30 AM
obviously another reason is the slowing economy. fewer sales means fewer shipments means fewer people needed for deliveries. Of course that would'nt apply to the postal service since they do a million times the volume of DHL. :shakehead
Of course that would'nt apply to the postal service since they do a million times the volume of DHL. :shakehead
i didnt say that only applied to DHL and not USPS
chop456
11-10-08, 09:39 AM
Global delivery company DHL today announced that it was cutting 9,500 jobs as it discontinues air and ground operations within the United States. CNNMoney reports the job cuts are on top of 5,400 layoffs announced earlier this year.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/10/news/companies/dhl/index.htm
Methanolandbrats
11-10-08, 10:19 AM
i didnt say that only applied to DHL and not USPS
Ok, I'm trying to follow you. USPS cuts jobs in an economic slowdown and that proves they are inefficient. DHL cuts jobs in an economic slowdown and it proves they are efficient. :confused:
Ok, I'm trying to follow you. USPS cuts jobs in an economic slowdown and that proves they are inefficient. DHL cuts jobs in an economic slowdown and it proves they are efficient. :confused:
DHL cut jobs at the begining of the year, at the begining of the economic slowdown and in preperation for lower demand. They then continue to do it as they redesign their business strategy in the US.
USPS is cutting jobs at the end of the year, after its been made clear over the last 8 months that the economy would be tanking.
Which one is more efficient? One matches demand as it happens, the other matches demand after the fact.
About 8,000 job cuts reportedly may be announced tomorrow, when DHL's parent company releases its quarterly earnings report. (http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/09/news/companies/dhl/?postversion=2008110922)
This represents approximately 25% of their US workforce as compared to 6% of the USPS being cut.
Obviously DHL must have 4x the unions and government inefficiency. :thumbup:
~15K in total and closing up shop in the US. :saywhat: :(
-Kevin
Insomniac
11-10-08, 11:15 AM
DHL cut jobs at the begining of the year, at the begining of the economic slowdown and in preperation for lower demand. They then continue to do it as they redesign their business strategy in the US.
USPS is cutting jobs at the end of the year, after its been made clear over the last 8 months that the economy would be tanking.
Which one is more efficient? One matches demand as it happens, the other matches demand after the fact.
It would seem really stupid to cut jobs at USPS before the holidays.
It would seem really stupid to cut jobs at USPS before the holidays.
unless holiday demand is down, which it is.
however, it doesnt sound per the article that the jobs are going to be cut quickly.
~15K in total and closing up shop in the US. :saywhat: :(
If only they could have used those mailboxes. :gomer:
If only they could have used those mailboxes. :gomer:
:rolleyes:
Insomniac
11-10-08, 01:03 PM
unless holiday demand is down, which it is.
however, it doesnt sound per the article that the jobs are going to be cut quickly.
People are already upset with the USPS most of the time. Delaying mail or making lines even longer won't help. I'd err on the side of caution during the holidays if I could.
People are already upset with the USPS most of the time. Delaying mail or making lines even longer won't help. I'd err on the side of caution during the holidays if I could.
well they say they can cut staff without it having a signficant enough impact for the customer to notice. we'll see though.
but like i said per the article, it doesnt sound like they are moving quickly with the layoffs.
Methanolandbrats
11-10-08, 01:17 PM
I've had three pieces of mail "lost" in over 40 years. All three showed up later in plastic bags with a note saying they were damaged in mail handling equipment. I have never had a problem with a carrier and waiting in line a few minutes to buy stamps or do some other task does not bother me. During the holidays the upset people are the dumb mother******* who wait till dec 20 to shop/wrap/ship what they should have been doing for over a month. As far as waits go, I wait longer at my local UPS outlet and they are only open four hours a day. I wait longer at the grocery store than I wait at the post office. WGAF.
chop456
11-10-08, 01:20 PM
I've had three pieces of mail "lost" in over 40 years. All three showed up later in plastic bags with a note saying they were damaged in mail handling equipment. I have never had a problem with a carrier and waiting in line a few minutes to buy stamps or do some other task does not bother me. During the holidays the upset people are the dumb mother******* who wait till dec 20 to shop/wrap/ship what they should have been doing for over a month. As far as waits go, I wait longer at my local UPS outlet and they are only open four hours a day. I wait longer at the grocery store than I wait at the post office. WGAF.
Needs more complaining.
Needs more complaining.
And a sprinkle of knowitall.
Insomniac
11-10-08, 02:04 PM
I've had three pieces of mail "lost" in over 40 years. All three showed up later in plastic bags with a note saying they were damaged in mail handling equipment. I have never had a problem with a carrier and waiting in line a few minutes to buy stamps or do some other task does not bother me. During the holidays the upset people are the dumb mother******* who wait till dec 20 to shop/wrap/ship what they should have been doing for over a month. As far as waits go, I wait longer at my local UPS outlet and they are only open four hours a day. I wait longer at the grocery store than I wait at the post office. WGAF.
I use the satellite post office branch at my local grocery store. No FedEx or UPS locations here. I can drop packages off at a local mailboxes type store for a fee. UPS charges a large fee for residential pickups, and unless it's by air, there is no residential pickup from FedEx.
KaBoom21
11-11-08, 07:09 PM
Most of that summer I spent preparing to play my way onto the football team as a Punter/PK. Most days I threw a duffle bag full of footballs in the back of the jeep and headed over to practice fields to kick and run for 4-6 hours -- while being paid I think about $17/hour. I got my effective PK range to 47 yards and made the team that Fall. :D
Nice. I found a girl on the route with an inground swimming pool and no parents around. :thumbup:
Andrew Longman
11-11-08, 08:07 PM
Nice. I found a girl on the route with an inground swimming pool and no parents around. :thumbup:
Hard to say which of us sweat more that summer, but you had a pool. ;)
Methanolandbrats
11-11-08, 10:29 PM
Hard to say which of us sweat more that summer, but you had a pool. ;)
:laugh:
Nice. I found a girl on the route with an inground swimming pool and no parents around. :thumbup:
Lucky you. I had some old bat that would come to her door with her housecoat hanging open in invitation. :yuck:
Methanolandbrats
11-12-08, 07:37 AM
Lucky you. I had some old bat that would come to her door with her housecoat hanging open in invitation. :yuck:
Sweet! :thumbup:
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