your garage sale may have illegal stuff

[G.]

It will be interesting how this law is interpreted (CPSIA).

Any toys or clothing for kids under 13 yrs. old must be tested for lead and phthalates before being sold starting Feb. 10th. As written, this new law basically puts resale shops out of business (it's written as sale-date, not date of manufacture). All of their inventory becomes hazardous waste on Feb. 10th.

There's no exemptions for private sales or garage sales either.

little harsh, dontcha think? (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-thrift2-2009jan02,0,2083247.story)

The CPSC won't rule on the retroactivity of the law, and a new law appears to be required to exempt existing inventory.

[Don Quixote]

So this would also shut down all the Goodwill, AARP, Disable Veterans, etc thrift shops? :shakehead

[opinionated ow]

You think that's bureaucracy gone mad? I can top that, some governmental agency has recommended a ban on all salty and fatty foods on sale in Australia. That in itself is pushing the limits of what the government should be allowed to do, but it gets worse-included in their list is Vegemite. Now I know Americans don't get it (primarily because you all spread it like you do Peanut Butter), but this is the major source of B Group Vitamins in most Australians! It's what we're weaned on-its the most Australian of foods out there and the back room policy pushers in our government want it banned because of its high salt content! And high in salt it maybe, but we only smear it, we don't spread it an inch thick-if you did that you'd be sick. Bunch of stupid Left Wing Labor nut jobs....:flame::flame::flame:

[Sean Malone]

You think that's bureaucracy gone mad? I can top that, some governmental agency has recommended a ban on all salty and fatty foods on sale in Australia. That in itself is pushing the limits of what the government should be allowed to do, but it gets worse-included in their list is Vegemite. Now I know Americans don't get it (primarily because you all spread it like you do Peanut Butter), but this is the major source of B Group Vitamins in most Australians! It's what we're weaned on-its the most Australian of foods out there and the back room policy pushers in our government want it banned because of its high salt content! And high in salt it maybe, but we only smear it, we don't spread it an inch thick-if you did that you'd be sick. Bunch of stupid Left Wing Labor nut jobs....:flame::flame::flame:

There's been similar recent activity regarding trans fat here in the states. I believe New York City has banned trans fat from restaurants.

[nrc]

Let's avoid the politics.

[SurfaceUnits]

when you tell the gubmint to take care of you, they get to tell your ass what to do and how you will do it. :cry:

[Michaelhatesfans]

when you tell the gubmint to take care of you, they get to tell your ass what to do and how you will do it. :cry:

In my experience the government doesn't wait to be asked before they tell your ass what to do, regardless of who's in power.

[Michaelhatesfans]

...but it gets worse-included in their list is Vegemite. Now I know Americans don't get it (primarily because you all spread it like you do Peanut Butter)

That's not the reason we don't like it. The reason we don't like it is because it tastes like $#!*.

[oddlycalm]

"We have a son with autism, so we are all about cleaning up the toxins that our children are exposed to," she said. "But I think the law needs to be looked at more closely to see how it is affecting the economy in general."
There is the conflict in a nutshell. We know this stuff is bad news. We know that it's been banned in most other industrialized countries. We don't want kids with autism, but we don't want to pay the price of eliminating it today.

It's the same with food. Nobody wants 50% of children to be obese. Nobody wants kids born today to be the first generation in the history of modern civilization to have a shorter lifespan than their parents. Nobody wants to pay the bill for a generation of obese people with chronic health problems and low productivity. Nobody wants to put an end to high carb and high fat foods in schools let alone in society as a whole.

I have no idea what the right answer is, but I can predict with great accuracy how corporate lobbying will proceed.

oc

[cameraman]

We have a son with autism, so we are all about cleaning up the toxins that our children are exposed to

Cleaning up what exactly? No one has even a hint of a clue as to the true causes of/mechanisms behind autism. There are a whole lot of guesses out there but when you get right down to it we don't know jack**** about what is going on.

[Methanolandbrats]

There is the conflict in a nutshell. We know this stuff is bad news. We know that it's been banned in most other industrialized countries. We don't want kids with autism, but we don't want to pay the price of eliminating it today.

It's the same with food. Nobody wants 50% of children to be obese. Nobody wants kids born today to be the first generation in the history of modern civilization to have a shorter lifespan than their parents. Nobody wants to pay the bill for a generation of obese people with chronic health problems and low productivity. Nobody wants to put an end to high carb and high fat foods in schools let alone in society as a whole.

I have no idea what the right answer is, but I can predict with great accuracy how corporate lobbying will proceed.

oc
The children part all comes down to the parents. I have friends who think if their kids eat the pickle on a McDonalds burger they just had a "salad". Because of their example their kids eat pretty much a diet of pure ****. I also have friends who eat good food and so do their kids. No way to legislate away stoopid behavior.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Because of their example their kids eat pretty much a diet of pure ****.

McDonalds carries Vegemite now?









:cool:

[TravelGal]

So this would also shut down all the Goodwill, AARP, Disable Veterans, etc thrift shops? :shakehead

This is what they are afraid of. Talk about not thinking something through....

[Cam]

That's not the reason we don't like it. The reason we don't like it is because it tastes like $#!*.

Really? My former Mother in Law would disagree. She could demolish a jar of vegemite in a 10th of the time I could. :eek:

[cameraman]

So this would also shut down all the Goodwill, AARP, Disable Veterans, etc thrift shops? :shakehead

Also every person who makes toys/clothes for fund raisers etc. You know, the retired guys who make wooden toys or the grandma knitting onesies for the church bazaar. By law they would have to get everything they make tested.

It is pretty clear that nobody in Congress even read this damn thing before they voted on it.:irked:

[oddlycalm]

It is pretty clear that nobody in Congress even read this damn thing before they voted on it.:irked:

Hence the time honored acronym SNAFU.

Hard to solve an undefined issue with a poorly aimed blunt instrument.

oc

[SurfaceUnits]

all you gomers can't have your weekly garage sales either

[swift]

stoopid legislation. :flame:
Forcing thrift stores to shut down is not the answer (goodbye retail jobs, goodbye access to affordable used items).

Maybe instead a "may contain lead" warning for un-tested products?

[Methanolandbrats]

all you gomers can't have your weekly garage sales either
Now there is the upside of the law. :thumbup: I HATE garage sales. My city has a few days when everyone piles all the **** they don't want in their driveways and it's nothing but a magnet for white trash. Like iron filings to a magnet the hillbillies swarm in their rusty beaters. They double park, clog the roads and and are a huge PIA. My wife got caught up in the hysteria and wanted to have a garage sale. I said "no way". I gave her $50 and threw the crap she wanted to sell in the garbage. :D

[G.]

stoopid legislation. :flame:
Forcing thrift stores to shut down is not the answer (goodbye retail jobs, goodbye access to affordable used items).

Maybe instead a "may contain lead" warning for un-tested products?

That wasn't the intention, shutting down Goodwill, et. al., but that is the effect of the poorly-worded law. The CPSC can't change the law, and must interpret it as such (bye bye Goodwill).

My guess is there will be a change run through the legislature.

My wife is part of a group that is already in contact with our Fed. Senator (the other one has some new job I hear).

Meth, I love your $50 idea. :laugh: Not a fan of the garage sales.

[pchall]

Cleaning up what exactly? No one has even a hint of a clue as to the true causes of/mechanisms behind autism. There are a whole lot of guesses out there but when you get right down to it we don't know jack**** about what is going on.

Good point. I somewhat doubt that there are environmental causes for autism, but parents will grab onto anything to put the blame outside of the family.

[G.]

but parents will grab onto anything to put the blame outside of the family.That's a pretty rough statement, dude.

Something seems to be causing cases to go up, and not just better diagnostics.

Mercury? Prolly not.

[cameraman]

Something seems to be causing cases to go up, and not just better diagnostics.

Even that statement is highly debatable. Autism is a hot button issue that has attracted more than its fair share of garbage research and self-proclaimed experts with dubious skill sets. There is way too much cherry picking of data sets or sweeping statements based on ridiculously small data sets and just plain pulled-out-of-the-ass theories stated as fact going on out there.

There is no shortage of people building careers on the desperation of parents.

Somewhere buried under all the bull**** is some real research on a real disease that affects real kids. It is just way too hard to find.

[Cam]

Even that statement is highly debatable. Autism is a hot button issue that has attracted more than its fair share of garbage research and self-proclaimed experts with dubious skill sets. There is way too much cherry picking of data sets or sweeping statements based on ridiculously small data sets and just plain pulled-out-of-the-ass theories stated as fact going on out there.

There is no shortage of people building careers on the desperation of parents.

Somewhere buried under all the bull**** is some real research on a real disease that affects real kids. It is just way too hard to find.

There is no increased infection/affliction. Just greater awareness.

[Andrew Longman]

My city has a few days when everyone piles all the **** they don't want in their driveways and it's nothing but a magnet for white trash.

Given that I live among white trash, our town wide yard sales pretty much become swap meets. We joke that that twice a year we just shuffle the crap in everybody's attic.

OTOH we have town wide clean up day once a year where you can pretty much haul anything to the curb. THAT brings out the real hillbillies and scary types who are out all over town the whole previous night with flashlights picking through crap. Before the garbage trucks come in the morning a third of the stuff is gone, but that's all the less the town has to pay to haul off.

[G.]

Bold is mine.

The new law requires that domestic manufacturers and importers certify that children’s products made after February 10 meet all the new safety standards and the lead ban. Sellers of used children’s products, such as thrift stores and consignment stores, are not required to certify that those products meet the new lead limits, phthalates standard or new toy standards.

The new safety law does not require resellers to test children’s products in inventory for compliance with the lead limit before they are sold. However, resellers cannot sell children’s products that exceed the lead limit and therefore should avoid products that are likely to have lead content, unless they have testing or other information to indicate the products being sold have less than the new limit. Those resellers that do sell products in violation of the new limits could face civil and/or criminal penalties.


The CPSC apparently reversed its earlier claims that "this sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it".

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.html

[G.]

There is no increased infection/affliction. Just greater awareness.


OK, sorry all. A quick search of real sites shows that there is no comfirmed increase in cases that has been proven.

[SurfaceUnits]

There is no increased infection/affliction. Just greater awareness.
I was chatting with My Mom the other day and nobody had or heard of autism when I was growing up in the late 70's
and nobody had addhdhdadhd either

[opinionated ow]

I was chatting with My Mom the other day and nobody had or heard of autism when I was growing up in the late 70's
and nobody had addhdhdadhd either

I read a report somewhere (and the author got a lot of flack for this) suggesting that more than 50% of cases of ADD/ADHD were actually just poorly behaved children (dare I say those as a result of new age "no smack" parenting?) and that doctors were forced into the diagnosis by *****ouse parents. i.e. drugs as the new discipline.

[JLMannin]

Even that statement is highly debatable. Autism is a hot button issue that has attracted more than its fair share of garbage research and self-proclaimed experts with dubious skill sets. There is way too much cherry picking of data sets or sweeping statements based on ridiculously small data sets and just plain pulled-out-of-the-ass theories stated as fact going on out there.

There is no shortage of people building careers on the desperation of parents.

Somewhere buried under all the bull**** is some real research on a real disease that affects real kids. It is just way too hard to find.

A special court convened by the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has rendered decisions on three test cases declaring that autism was not caused by the vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella combined with vaccines containing thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/12/autism.vaccines/index.html

It looks like real science may prevail in the end. Thimerosal has been out of vaccines for eight years now, and newly diagnosed cases of autism continue to rise.

[Andrew Longman]

I was chatting with My Mom the other day and nobody had or heard of autism when I was growing up in the late 70's...

From the cnn article>
14-year-old Michelle Cedillo, who cannot speak, wears a diaper and requires round-the-clock monitoring in case she has a seizure.

I doubt people would have missed that.

Today's ruling I think correctly assessed the legal requirements to find blame, but not the scientific.

-- Autism and the brain are very poorly understood, despite huge progress in the last 20 years. What has long been understood is that brains of many animals have many critical stages/points of development. (e.g., species identification within days for geese and 8-10 weeks in dogs). What's know about human brain critical is actually much less.

-- The drug companies have less than zero interest in finding the scientific truth because it could bankrupt them. Just take the Thimerosal out and wait for it to blow over.

-- When drug companies do trials they do it in controlled ways without other variables introduced. In actual use vaccines tend to be given in clusters during a single doctor visit so the amount of mercury given at a single time it much more. How dosing of mercury in larger than expected doses, combined with other factors genetic and environmental effects critical stages of brain development is not understood at all.

-- While Thimerosal has not been used in years, older products with it were not taken out of inventory and are still used today. Nothing but drug company greed for that... and a fear it would signal they agree with their critics.

-- Mercury poisoning I recall has shown to create some of the effects of autism in animals and humans, but true trials to prove and disprove the link will never be made. The drug companies are not motivated to know the truth and ethically you can't conduct trials designed to create the possibility of producing autistic children.

-- So we'll likely never know and their will be more desperate parents exploited and exploiting. It is a tragic condition for both child and parent.

[Andrew Longman]

Hard to solve an undefined issue with a poorly aimed blunt instrument.

Much of my professional life's work has been to convince people of that point, but you made it better than I ever have. A keeper going up on my wall. :D:thumbup:

[cameraman]

From the cnn article>

I doubt people would have missed that.


14-year-old Michelle Cedillo, who cannot speak, wears a diaper and requires round-the-clock monitoring in case she has a seizure.

Seizures? The real question with that girl is what does she really have? I would be willing to bet that if you took a DNA sample from her and sequenced her genome from end to end you would find a sporadic microdeletion somewhere in there. We can't realistically screen people at the moment for that kind of genetic damage because even with the newest gear it would cost a fortune. Right now we are stuck with severe neurological damage with no known cause.

[Andrew Longman]

Seizures? The real question with that girl is what does she really have? I would be willing to bet that if you took a DNA sample from her and sequenced her genome from end to end you would find a sporadic microdeletion somewhere in there. We can't realistically screen people at the moment for that kind of genetic damage because even with the newest gear it would cost a fortune. Right now we are stuck with severe neurological damage with no known cause.

Can't disagree except to say something is clearly wrong with this girl and the cause(s) of her and a lot of others with autism are poorly understood and aren't likely to get sorted out as long as the drug companies are covering their ass.

A systematic analysis is likely impossible politically/business interests and ethically.

Something somewhere has changed because unlike ADHA etc. autism is pretty easily recognized, at least in its more severe forms and my understanding is cases of severe cases alone is clearly on the rise. From studies I've seen I don't think this is a manufactured problem and something is causing it. Milder cases are not so clear and confuse the science.