Another DVR hits the market

[oddlycalm]

Moxi HD DVR (http://www.amazon.com/Moxi-MR-1500T3-Digital-Video-Recorder/dp/B001GQ8MT8/ref=enduser_blog_link)

Paul Allen's company Moxi has released the Moxi MR-1500T3 HD DVR. No monthly fees, no advertising. $799.99.

Not sure how the business model is supposed to work, but it seems like it's going to be hard to make enough on box sales to make this business interesting. Aside from the dreadful release timing it's also not clear why someone would choose this product over a TiVo HD. Maybe I'm missing something?

Also hard to see how the Moxi wins on price alone. A standard TiVo HD with lifetime activation and a 500GB external would come in at $768. A TiVo XL with lifetime activation would be $200 more but would have double the storage of the Moxi.

Moxi will probably add partners for streaming video but TiVo already has them and the customer knows who they are.

What seems clear is that company after company is making big bets on streaming video in the absence of the infrastructure to support it.

[Sean Malone]

...

What seems clear is that company after company is making big bets on streaming video in the absence of the infrastructure to support it.

Agreed, but someone needs to step up and host a decent product. Netflix streaming is subpar and who streams YouTube to their 50" + HDTV?

[dando]

Moxi HD DVR (http://www.amazon.com/Moxi-MR-1500T3-Digital-Video-Recorder/dp/B001GQ8MT8/ref=enduser_blog_link)

Paul Allen's company Moxi has released the Moxi MR-1500T3 HD DVR. No monthly fees, no advertising. $799.99.

Not sure how the business model is supposed to work, but it seems like it's going to be hard to make enough on box sales to make this business interesting. Aside from the dreadful release timing it's also not clear why someone would choose this product over a TiVo HD. Maybe I'm missing something?

Also hard to see how the Moxi wins on price alone. A standard TiVo HD with lifetime activation and a 500GB external would come in at $768. A TiVo XL with lifetime activation would be $200 more but would have double the storage of the Moxi.

Moxi will probably add partners for streaming video but TiVo already has them and the customer knows who they are.

What seems clear is that company after company is making big bets on streaming video in the absence of the infrastructure to support it.

ReplayTV redux? :gomer: :saywhat: Doesn't seem to make cents to me unless the hardware co$t is very, very small. And how does a menu system win an Emmy? :confused: I'm actually surprised Allen didn't sell off Charter while the $$$ were in the market. Now, not so much. Same goes for Cablevision.

SM, Netflix streaming just started, so I'm sure it will improve. I just saw a headline about Roku beginning HD stream support. Netflix/Tivo can't be far behind. Netflix does not == Youtube.

EDIT: some brief notes from CNet (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10121981-1.html?tag=mncol)....looks like this product was salvaged from the ashes. I don't give it a rats chance to survive a year despite Paul Allen's (aka: Vulcan Ventures) jack.

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

...looks like this product was salvaged from the ashes. I don't give it a rats chance to survive a year despite Paul Allen's (aka: Vulcan Ventures) jack.
Right, seemed like such a bad business model (and such awful timing) that I figured I must be missing something. Not a lot of people lining up to spring for $800 DVR's and TiVo seems to have things nicely covered for those that are.

oc

[dando]

Right, seemed like such a bad business model (and such awful timing) that I figured I must be missing something. Not a lot of people lining up to spring for $800 DVR's and TiVo seems to have things nicely covered for those that are.

oc

Well, if you go full retail pricing, a Tivo HD w/lifetime will run $700 ($300 unit + $400 lifetime), add the additional storage and you are running ~$850. So there is some minimal savings based on that. However, refurbed units have been available for ~$179 (sold out now, tho). I've been fence sitting on that purchase for a few mos. I'd have a tough time justifying 8 bill$ on HD menus and little else in the way of additional features vs. ~$580.

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

Well, if you go full retail pricing, a Tivo HD w/lifetime will run $700 ($300 unit + $400 lifetime), add the additional storage and you are running ~$850. So there is some minimal savings based on that. However, refurbed units have been available for ~$179 (sold out now, tho). I've been fence sitting on that purchase for a few mos. I'd have a tough time justifying 8 bill$ on HD menus and little else in the way of additional features vs. ~$580.

-Kevin

Yeah, the prices I referred to were from Amazon for all items except for the lifetime activation but whether the price is $100 less or not isn't going to have much impact on the number of people stepping up. :D

I got both S3's with lifetime activation off eBay and popped some larger drives in myself. A lot less money, more storage.

oc

[nrc]

Agreed, but someone needs to step up and host a decent product. Netflix streaming is subpar and who streams YouTube to their 50" + HDTV?

I do. On the odd occasion when I'm watching something that's still recording and I catch up with live TV I'll stop and watch a few failblog videos or whatever rather than watch commercials. It's also nice when you have friends over and people start the "did you see the one where..." game. Think of it as a YouTube thread for parties.

Oh, and there's a wide screen, pretty decent quality version of that Caminito del Rey video that will have you sucking the stuffing out of the sofa cushions.

As for streaming movies. I'm not so big on that. I prefer the way Amazon does SD movies right now. Download and watch. You can start watching as soon as you have video cached. This would be much better for HD where most internet connections won't support anything close to real HD bandwidth. Unfortunately, I get the impression that Amazon will go streaming for HD as well. Licensing problems. :/

[Insomniac]

ReplayTV redux? :gomer: :saywhat: Doesn't seem to make cents to me unless the hardware co$t is very, very small. And how does a menu system win an Emmy? :confused: I'm actually surprised Allen didn't sell off Charter while the $$$ were in the market. Now, not so much. Same goes for Cablevision.

SM, Netflix streaming just started, so I'm sure it will improve. I just saw a headline about Roku beginning HD stream support. Netflix/Tivo can't be far behind. Netflix does not == Youtube.

EDIT: some brief notes from CNet (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10121981-1.html?tag=mncol)....looks like this product was salvaged from the ashes. I don't give it a rats chance to survive a year despite Paul Allen's (aka: Vulcan Ventures) jack.

-Kevin

It could be a longer term strategy to eventually partner with Charter. DVRs are gaining market share. Someone should be able to take on TiVo. TiVo owners should hope so. Means cheaper TiVo Series 4s. :)

[dando]

I got both S3's with lifetime activation off eBay and popped some larger drives in myself. A lot less money, more storage.

oc

I've looked into those, but I'm leery of them. ~$750 for an S3 with lifetime and 1TB of added storage is tempting, tho. PM me if you have a recommended seller and a good source for the upgrade info. I found good sources on ReplayTV upgrades (and have replaced drives twice), but I'm a Tivo neophyte (having poked fun @ Tivoheads for years). :) It seems like the S3s must be more easy to upgrade, as upgraded HD models don't seem as readily available (if @ all).

-Kevin

[dando]

It could be a longer term strategy to eventually partner with Charter. DVRs are gaining market share. Someone should be able to take on TiVo. TiVo owners should hope so. Means cheaper TiVo Series 4s. :)

Well, the cable cos and DTV are competing with TiVo. Most peeps don't want to mess with a separate provider for a DVR and just go with the bundle that comes with their cable/DBS. Of course most of them don't know any better about what they are missing (nor do they care to in most cases I know).

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

Well, the cable cos and DTV are competing with TiVo. Most peeps don't want to mess with a separate provider for a DVR and just go with the bundle that comes with their cable/DBS. Of course most of them don't know any better about what they are missing (nor do they care to in most cases I know).

-Kevin

If the cable companies adopted a DirecTV like pricing model ($6/mo, up to 8 DVRs, but there is a $5 fee for each receiver) the cable companies might fare better. As it is now, most charge something like $12/mo for a DVR. And a crappy one at that. TiVo and a cable card for $2/mo sounds a lot better.

I don't think satellite companies are competing with TiVo at all though. I don't know many people who want to hook up a standalone TiVo to their satellite receiver. Much rather have dual tuner, 1 receiver. That will change somewhat with DirecTV because there's supposed to be a new TiVo DTV receiver coming.

[Insomniac]

I've looked into those, but I'm leery of them. ~$750 for an S3 with lifetime and 1TB of added storage is tempting, tho. PM me if you have a recommended seller and a good source for the upgrade info. I found good sources on ReplayTV upgrades (and have replaced drives twice), but I'm a Tivo neophyte (having poked fun @ Tivoheads for years). :) It seems like the S3s must be more easy to upgrade, as upgraded HD models don't seem as readily available (if @ all).

-Kevin

If you do it yourself, you're looking at ~$800. (Depending on the drive you use)

[oddlycalm]

Oh, and there's a wide screen, pretty decent quality version of that Caminito del Rey video that will have you sucking the stuffing out of the sofa cushions.
Absolutely, just wish there was a bookmark function so it was easier to fire up the good stuff when the moment arrives.

oc

[nrc]

Absolutely, just wish there was a bookmark function so it was easier to fire up the good stuff when the moment arrives.

oc

If you have a YouTube account and sign-in you can access your YouTube favorites and subscriptions. You can also mark favorites and subscribe to channels through TiVo. It remembers your login unless you reboot so while it's a bit of a pain entering a login an password, you don't have to do it that often.

[oddlycalm]

If you have a YouTube account and sign-in you can access your YouTube favorites and subscriptions. You can also mark favorites and subscribe to channels through TiVo. It remembers your login unless you reboot so while it's a bit of a pain entering a login an password, you don't have to do it that often.

Cool, thanks. :thumbup:

oc

[SurfaceUnits]

EchoStar SlingLoaded HD DVR 922 combines Slingbox and DVR into one super set-top box


http://ces.cnet.com/8301-19167_1-10137052-100.html

[dando]

The anti-Tivohead is now a Tivo owner. :eek: S3 purchased on eBay for $245. :thumbup: Cablecard install scheduled for next week, and I'll be tossing the TWC STB and it's crapporific guide in the trash. I'll probably be pinging the Tivoheads for 411 in the near future. :)

-Kevin

[nrc]

The anti-Tivohead is now a Tivo owner. :eek: S3 purchased on eBay for $245. :thumbup: Cablecard install scheduled for next week, and I'll be tossing the TWC STB and it's crapporific guide in the trash. I'll probably be pinging the Tivoheads for 411 in the near future. :)

-Kevin

Welcome to the TiVolution.

Make sure that they bring extra cablecards. They're often busted. One of the ways they get busted is that installers pull them out while the firmware is updating because they're impatient. Discourage them from doing that. Also remember that an S3 requires two cards since it can't use multi-stream cards (except as single stream).

[oddlycalm]

The anti-Tivohead is now a Tivo owner. :eek: S3 purchased on eBay for $245. :thumbup: Cablecard install scheduled for next week, and I'll be tossing the TWC STB and it's crapporific guide in the trash. I'll probably be pinging the Tivoheads for 411 in the near future. :)

-Kevin
Congratulations on the find. :thumbup: The approach is a bit different from the Replay but not enough to be a big mystery.

If you're considering adding an external drive or doing an internal upgrade there is a good FAQ (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784) that will explain all the options. Easiest is to just use the 500GB My DVR external.

oc

[Insomniac]

Congratulations on the find. :thumbup: The approach is a bit different from the Replay but not enough to be a big mystery.

If you're considering adding an external drive or doing an internal upgrade there is a good FAQ (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784) that will explain all the options. Easiest is to just use the 500GB My DVR external.

oc

I wish the eSATA standard was set up to also power the drive.

[Insomniac]

The anti-Tivohead is now a Tivo owner. :eek: S3 purchased on eBay for $245. :thumbup: Cablecard install scheduled for next week, and I'll be tossing the TWC STB and it's crapporific guide in the trash. I'll probably be pinging the Tivoheads for 411 in the near future. :)

-Kevin

Did you get the original S3 or the HD one?

[dando]

Did you get the original S3 or the HD one?

S3. Refurb HDs are going for $200. I'll prolly get one of those as a slave in the wife's viewing room.

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

I wish the eSATA standard was set up to also power the drive.
Yeah, but I sure don't miss having to fork out a fortune for a SCSI host adapter then have to cram cardboard stiff 68 conductor teflon ribbon cable with a half dozen connectors and a terminator into a tin box while trying to get the connectors to seat...;)

oc

[dando]

Also remember that an S3 requires two cards since it can't use multi-stream cards (except as single stream).

Craptastic. I assumed that if the HD can do two with one card, the S3 should be the same. :( Now you tell me. :saywhat: :gomer: I don't generally try to do two things @ once, so one card will suffice...plus I'll be getting a HD as a slave.

-Kevin

[Insomniac]

S3. Refurb HDs are going for $200. I'll prolly get one of those as a slave in the wife's viewing room.

-Kevin

I'm thinking MRV is coming to the DTV DVRs. They now have software to watch off them on your PC. Once that happens, I don't think TiVo will be in my future for a long time.

(I was asking about S3/HD because of the cablecard thing you figured out already.)

[Insomniac]

Yeah, but I sure don't miss having to fork out a fortune for a SCSI host adapter then have to cram cardboard stiff 68 conductor teflon ribbon cable with a half dozen connectors and a terminator into a tin box while trying to get the connectors to seat...;)

oc

Hehe, I didn't have to do it for that, but did for some 24-bit ADC cards to a box. Not good times. Especially when you hear a pop sound and smell smoke. :)

[nrc]

Craptastic. I assumed that if the HD can do two with one card, the S3 should be the same. :( Now you tell me. :saywhat: :gomer: I don't generally try to do two things @ once, so one card will suffice...plus I'll be getting a HD as a slave.

-Kevin

I haven't paid much attention to how well it works with just one CC enabled tuner. WOW provides the first one free so I only pay for one anyway. Not sure how TW handles it.

[oddlycalm]

The cable guy will almost certainly show up with more than on card on the truck because they have a history of occasionally not wanting to work every time out. Not sure what TW charges but our is $1.50 for the 2nd card. More than worth it for 2 tuner recording.

oc

[dando]

TWC charges $2.50 for CCs. I'll be having a 'chat' with them about the install fee and the CC fees since I'm primarily replacing their crappy STBs and guide software with Tivos. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of issues I've experienced since the rolled out the new guide software, and then managed to break it again after fixing it back in October. :saywhat: :flame: I'm :mad: and I'm a TWX employee to boot. :irked:

-Kevin

[nrc]

Amazon On Demand now has HD downloads available on TiVo. 1080i with 5.1 audio. Not BluRay by any means but much better than bandwidth limited streaming formats. :thumbup: