View Full Version : Conquest Racing
Just got a call from a buddy who works for AGR. Rumors are swirling that Conquest will be closing the doors today. Thank god TG fixed the sport.
Sad.
On the upside, there's less left for FTG to destroy.
Are you sure? There's no mention elsewhere, if you know what I mean. ;)
Well, at least Chris Paff is happy. :shakehead
Lux Interior
01-30-09, 09:06 PM
Good! The sooner the better. This economic downturn is going to help kill Indycar. Let's hope in a few years something better comes back - this time without TG.
eiregosod
01-30-09, 09:07 PM
who will replace Conquest racing?
better hope the better teams rolls out more cars :saywhat:
eiregosod
01-30-09, 09:34 PM
wait Tony has a plan
http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00268/monkeys_268562s.jpg
:rofl::laugh::rofl:
Hell, that would get me to attend a race, at least.
That reminds me of how Castroneves was called a "fence climbing monkey" by the :gomer::gomer::gomer: when he cherry picked the 500 for Penske in 2001.
Two seasons later he was their hero.
Too bad about Conquest. I wish they had found a way to go to ALMS instead of getting sucked down the toilet with :tony: .
Al Czervik
01-30-09, 11:49 PM
You know, if :tony: hadn't spent so much money propping up a failure, :tony: would have some money left to prop up the series in a bad economic situation.
/camireallywishicouldpostwithsomeswearwordsonanothe rsite
Are you sure? There's no mention elsewhere, if you know what I mean. ;)
Well, at least Chris Paff is happy. :shakehead
Nope, I'm not sure at all. I was told that was the word going around the shops and I haven't been able to get in touch with the couple guys I know that were working for Conquest. I hope it is just a stupid rumor but my gut tells me Eric won't be answering the bell this year.
Good! The sooner the better. This economic downturn is going to help kill Indycar. Let's hope in a few years something better comes back - this time without TG.
No Lux, not good. The guys that are out of work are starting to struggle to make ends meet. They don't need teams full of people joining them in the job hunt. Not real good times in Indy right now for a lot of people.
You know, Ripped, I have often been the one to make the point that we should not celebrate the loss of racing jobs, but I have to tell you, I am over it. As a matter of fact, the whole world is over it, and anyone who is still works for a team or support company in Indy has been watching this disaster build for years. Hell, I don't even know anyone who works for the teams anymore. All my friends bailed, most years ago.
Do I feel sorry for anyone who is unemployed? Yes, I do. But, am I going to let that prevent me from dancing on the graves of those who created this disaster? No, I am not.
Pardon me while I go over to tracktuckyforum and piss myself from laughing so hard.
I've heard that line before. Never worked on me.
Those folks, just like me, can go find another job when their job sector takes a down turn.
the usual :gomer: load
Now I'm being told that KV is cutting the staff considerably.
You all can dance if you like but the people paying the price for this didn't have a hand in the creation of this mess. I won't be celebrating the loss of their jobs or the destruction of a once great sport. It all sickens me.
SurfaceUnits
01-31-09, 03:45 PM
Now I'm being told that KV is cutting the staff considerably.
poo poo occurs when you make a deal with the devil
Now I'm being told that KV is cutting the staff considerably.
You all can dance if you like but the people paying the price for this didn't have a hand in the creation of this mess. I won't be celebrating the loss of their jobs or the destruction of a once great sport. It all sickens me.
That's too bad. That team really took it in a *** last year after investing heavily in the new and improved Champ Car.
TravelGal
01-31-09, 06:58 PM
That's too bad. That team really took it in a *** last year after investing heavily in the new and improved Champ Car.
I'm a Vasser fan but he was idiot to get messed up with this. A fool and his money......
On possibly another cheery note for Indy, did you read somewhere on Cr@pwagon that PCM had mergicated with someone? I read it a couple of nights ago and can't find it today. Nothing about it on PCM site and I can't remember the other outfit's name.
Ed_Severson
01-31-09, 07:33 PM
I'm a Vasser fan but he was idiot to get messed up with this. A fool and his money......
On possibly another cheery note for Indy, did you read somewhere on Cr@pwagon that PCM had mergicated with someone? I read it a couple of nights ago and can't find it today. Nothing about it on PCM site and I can't remember the other outfit's name.
They're supposedly hooking up with Rubicon, which is Jim Freudenberg's attempt at running a team.
TravelGal
01-31-09, 07:40 PM
They're supposedly hooking up with Rubicon, which is Jim Freudenberg's attempt at running a team.
Thanks, Ed. I knew it was someone I didn't know. :D
Now I'm being told that KV is cutting the staff considerably.
You all can dance if you like but the people paying the price for this didn't have a hand in the creation of this mess. I won't be celebrating the loss of their jobs or the destruction of a once great sport. It all sickens me.
I think somebody has been missing his regular dose of hate.
SurfaceUnits
01-31-09, 10:25 PM
I wonder if Ripped has spoken with someone in the IRL Complaint Department?
miatanut
02-01-09, 02:42 AM
Now I'm being told that KV is cutting the staff considerably.
You all can dance if you like but the people paying the price for this didn't have a hand in the creation of this mess. I won't be celebrating the loss of their jobs or the destruction of a once great sport. It all sickens me.
It's the usual deal. The little people get hurt while the honchos who caused the whole mess get off scott free, with their million$ intact.
Still, the current generation of owners have shown a remarkable lack of spine. As a result, the sport has to continue to decline until there are hardly any teams left, so that most of the few fans who are still watching say 'why would I want to watch that'?
At some point, the teams that remain decide it's time to find their balls and take the sport back, or somebody with as much money as Tony and as little brains, but who is a genuine gearhead, starts a new series with the stuff the fans want, the few teams that remained jump ship, and a few ALMS teams decide to go open wheeling again.
Racing for racers. That's what made the sport great, and that's what it needs to get back to, if it's ever going to be great again, and provide a decent employment market for the people trying to make a living in the sport.
For me, I'm sad anytime a team has to close down completely, but I'm delighted that with each team that leaves the IRL, the end of this nightmare becomes closer.
TravelGal
02-01-09, 03:34 AM
For me, I'm sad anytime a team has to close down completely, but I'm delighted that with each team that leaves the IRL, the end of this nightmare becomes closer.
Bingo.
stroker
02-01-09, 10:21 AM
It's the usual deal. The little people get hurt while the honchos who caused the whole mess get off scott free, with their million$ intact.
I'd be very surprised if KK's bank account post-Champ Car is "intact".
But I get your point, though.
Andrew Longman
02-01-09, 10:59 AM
At some point, the teams that remain decide it's time to find their balls and take the sport back...
CARTs last year I thought it was closest to that. And if you look at the 2003 season that was a pretty impressive schedule with some bold moves (e.g., night race at Cleveland, Brands Hatch, Zanardi's run at Lautzig, etc.). The field/owners was full of people who appreciated the product.
Granted they were spending the last of CARTs money, but they put it into the product.
But the fans and sponsors and TV ratings didn't come. Too much too late I suppose.
But if it were to ever work it would have be led by someone(s) who understand the marketing and biz side very well to ensure the value created matched the cost of racing. And it not just controlling cost, but much more about creating value. It has to be a product that sells tickets and TV commercials.
But to that end too, I think that selling genuine competition among rival teams, owners and drivers -- not the manufactured spec racing crap that NASCAR and IRL have become -- could have real appeal.
Even in NASCAR, while I didn't approve of the constant rule changes for favor Chevy over Ford or vise versa, that constant tinkering at least gave a little drama week to week.
High Sided
02-01-09, 01:51 PM
Conquest still open, KV lays off 18 people
from robin miller
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indtcar-robin-millers-open-wheel-notebook/
Hesketh
02-02-09, 10:18 AM
The guys that are out of work are starting to struggle to make ends meet. They don't need teams full of people joining them in the job hunt. Not real good times in Indy right now for a lot of people.
You all can dance if you like but the people paying the price for this didn't have a hand in the creation of this mess. I won't be celebrating the loss of their jobs or the destruction of a once great sport. It all sickens me.
Thanks, Ripped. It's tough out there.
For all the "dancers" out there, think about your job --- especially if it's a specialized field and it's all you've ever done/have training & experience in. Think how tough it would be for you if your industry suddenly crashed and burned. Sure, 'just go get another job.' Because it's *that* easy. :shakehead
SurfaceUnits
02-02-09, 12:02 PM
I propose the mods ban everyone on this forum who had a hand in the destruction of AOWR.
I know trying to justify it all doesn't make sense, but, I consider myself an out-of-work AOW fan...one day I had a job being a fan of CART/CCWS....next day POOF! I was out on the streets.
So, I do feel for anyone tangled up in this AOW nightmare. Sadly it all points to the inception of the IRL back in 1994. And, unfortunately this sport is not forgiving....one day you're here, the next day not. Anyone who threw-in with Tony George as their perpetual leader is soley responsible for their actions. Good luck to them all....get out now while there's still a chance.
miatanut
02-02-09, 01:39 PM
For all the "dancers" out there, think about your job --- especially if it's a specialized field and it's all you've ever done/have training & experience in. Think how tough it would be for you if your industry suddenly crashed and burned. Sure, 'just go get another job.' Because it's *that* easy. :shakehead
1. So what are the chances of improvement given the current management running the sport?
2. Why don't the teams find their balls and take back control of the sport? Thirty years ago, it was new and radical. Now, they just need to update the script which worked so well last time. Everybody wins but the moron who started this mess.
cameraman
02-02-09, 01:46 PM
2. Why don't the teams find their balls and take back control of the sport? Thirty years ago, it was new and radical. Now, they just need to update the script which worked so well last time. Everybody wins but the moron who started this mess.
How exactly might they do that? Tony still owns the Indianapolis Motorspeedway. The fine folks at usac/cart/ccws proved that without the Indy 500 you will not survive. As long as he owns that track AOW is screwed.
Methanolandbrats
02-02-09, 01:54 PM
If it had not been for the Global Economic Disaster, I think many of the displaced teams and staff would have found a home in a rapidly expanding ALMS series. Anyone here involved in sportscar racing?
Conquest still open, KV lays off 18 people
from robin miller
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indtcar-robin-millers-open-wheel-notebook/
from the article:
Eric Bachelart: "I said we could close the doors or they could take a salary reduction and we could keep going and see where we were in a few weeks."
Sounds like he's playing the FTG Powerball lottery: hang on to see if the EARL is a few cars short of 18, then wait for a check. Risky.
Insomniac
02-02-09, 02:27 PM
from the article:
Sounds like he's playing the FTG Powerball lottery: hang on to see if the EARL is a few cars short of 18, then wait for a check. Risky.
Not risky if you had nothing anyway.
cameraman
02-02-09, 02:27 PM
It may be risky but it isn't like he has any other option in order to stay open.
miatanut
02-02-09, 03:05 PM
How exactly might they do that? Tony still owns the Indianapolis Motorspeedway. The fine folks at usac/cart/ccws proved that without the Indy 500 you will not survive. As long as he owns that track AOW is screwed.
The fine folks at CART proved that if they break their own union, IMS wins. Nothing more. CART worked very effectively until it broke its own union.
cameraman
02-02-09, 03:24 PM
The fine folks at CART proved that if they break their own union, IMS wins. Nothing more. CART worked very effectively until it broke its own union.
No CART "worked" until FTG blew a gasket, if you consider "working" mean causing FTG to blow a gasket in the first place. There was never union of team owners, Roger Penske is not a "union" kind of guy.
miatanut
02-02-09, 03:44 PM
No CART "worked" until FTG blew a gasket, if you consider "working" mean causing FTG to blow a gasket in the first place. There was never union of team owners, Roger Penske is not a "union" kind of guy.
CART was TOTALLY a union, and the entire reason it was created was so the teams could go toe-to-toe with IMS. Then Pimpski changed sides.
http://www.allamericanracers.com/cart_white-paper.html
When I first read the white paper in Road and Track, I cheered. FINALLY the teams were going to band together and get their fair piece of the pie. Then one of the founders blew it up from inside. Leaving us where we are now.
Tony Hulman dies in '77, USAC officials killed in plane crash in '78....USAC was running the thing into the ground. The owners, who had all of their $$$ tied up in it, banded together to form CART. Without that strong union they couldn't have forged forward to build AOW into the Golden Era '79 thru '95.
The legacy FTG inherited was to break the union and return Indy to the center of the sport. Of course he succeeded, but destroyed more than just the greedy CART union to do it. He killed us fans too...
(What sucks too is Indy grew in stature as well during the same period. Together they worked to make AOW parmount. Until the tantrum.....and oval roots racers bulls****)
CART did rather well as a series without the Indy 500 from 1996 to 2002. Of course, Ganassi cherry picked a 500 and Pimpske started jonesing for yet more miniBorg-Warners... and that started the death spiral.
How exactly might they do that? Tony still owns the Indianapolis Motorspeedway. The fine folks at usac/cart/ccws proved that without the Indy 500 you will not survive. As long as he owns that track AOW is screwed.
Insomniac
02-02-09, 04:38 PM
CART did rather well as a series without the Indy 500 from 1996 to 2002. Of course, Ganassi cherry picked a 500 and Pimpske started jonesing for yet more miniBorg-Warners... and that started the death spiral.
I'd say rather well vs. the IRL, but the ratings were dropping. The big winner was NASCAR. They had a blockbuster paid TV deal signed in 1999. The split opened the door for NASCAR. Indy needed the stars and CART needed Indy. Looking back, they probably had 2 seasons to get back together. I think most here will wonder what would've happened if they kept running the US 500 vs Indy. Would they have been able to get it on air head-to-head and eventually prevail?
cameraman
02-02-09, 05:03 PM
Only if none of those unionized team owners and manufacturers raced at Indy. If the field of 33 had only racing dentists in it then the split would have failed. Also who made the decision to cancel the US 500?
eiregosod
02-02-09, 06:04 PM
we know what white paper would mean to TG today. mmmmmmmmm snow.
I think the Indy "mystique" was forever lost the day NASCAR was allowed into 16th and Georgetown. Do not discount this as a reason why NASCAR took off and AOW started to flounder. Tony needed a piggy bank to finance his cruisade to destroy Indy and conquer CART. FTG shot himself in the foot good.
Also who made the decision to cancel the US 500?
The reason given on the Wiki:
Following the 1996 season, CART decided not to run the U.S. 500 opposite the Indianapolis 500 again. The race, as it had been initially created, was discontinued. The success of the event was questionable, and the remaining reasons to hold the event were the subject of considerable debate. Teams and officials also were not keen on racing at the same facility twice in the same season. From 1997-1999, instead of creating a direct conflict, on the day before the Indianapolis 500, CART scheduled a race at the newly-opened Gateway International Speedway as their Memorial Day weekend alternative. The race, however, experienced much less interest, and was eventually moved to August.
Starting in 1997, the Indy Racing League adopted new chassis and engine rules that were not compatible with the equipment used by CART teams, thus any teams choosing to race at Indianapolis would have to purchase all new machines. After experiencing unforeseen problems unrelated to the CART boycott, the IRL's 25/8 restriction for the Indianapolis 500 was dropped after the 1997 race. No CART team, however, would return to Indianapolis until 2000.
In 1997, Penske Corporation and CART added a season-ending race for the Champ Cars at California Speedway. As a result, some name-shuffling ensued. The Marlboro 500 name, which had been used for the 500-mile event held at Michigan in July or August from 1987 to 1996, was given to the new fall California Speedway race. The U.S. 500 was in turn the name given to the annual summer Michigan race, now being held in July, from 1997-1999.
In the 1998 race, three spectators were killed and six more injured[1] when a wheel from Adrian Fernández's car flew into the grandstands during a crash on lap 175 of the 250 lap race. CART was widely criticized for not stopping the race in deference to the dead and injured fans. CART's own investigation determined that the casualties were the result of an "accidental racing incident."[2] However, the track's fences were quickly extended by an additional four feet in an attempt to contain debris from future crashes.[3]
In 2000, the U.S. 500 name was dropped permanently as the race was changed to the Michigan 500 presented by Toyota, and in its last year, 2001, it was known as the Harrah's 500. In 2002, the race switched alliances to the Indy Racing League, and became what was known as the Firestone Indy 400.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._500
IIRC, some have suggested that Penske, who owned MIS @ the time, put pressure on the C^RT board to not compete against IMS. I dunno how the success of the event could be questioned. The place was packed despite questionable weather. I know some freebies were given out, but the crowd was buzzing. IMO, it was a mistake to mimic Indy with the three-wide start. Of course the huge 'Vasserized' wreck that happened @ the start of the race in T4 proved that. :saywhat: My first race in person that I can remember. My mom has told me that I was @ Indy when I was quite young, and that I slept through the race. :gomer:
NOTE: Vasserized comes from the plaque on Bryan Herta's nose cone that hung in a local bar called Bumpers in Cbus. Team Rahal claimed that Vasser got into Herta to start the incident. RIP, Bumpers. :cry: DJ Music Dude owns it now (haven't seen him post here in a long, long time).
Others here may know more...I wasn't involved with the racing boards back then since they were so nasty. I tried to post on a CompuServe racing board, but the flame wars weren't worth it. :irked: I just frequented Peter Burke's Speedcenter for news and rumors and pics.
-Kevin
shaggy_socal
02-02-09, 09:59 PM
2. Why don't the teams find their balls and take back control of the sport? Thirty years ago, it was new and radical. Now, they just need to update the script which worked so well last time. Everybody wins but the moron who started this mess.
Thirty years ago, the players involved had big fat wallets next to their balls with which to build a series from.
If they don't have the $$$ to run the current incarnation of hte IRL, they ain't gonna have the capital to start a whole new series.
The split that happened when CART was formed only lasted a couple of years. CART won because they had a better product than USAC.
The IRL/CART split was seige warfare or a war of attrition. The winner was determined by who didn't die first. In that kind of war, TG could clearly outlast CART/CCWS.
miatanut
02-02-09, 10:20 PM
Thirty years ago, the players involved had big fat wallets next to their balls with which to build a series from.
If they don't have the $$$ to run the current incarnation of hte IRL, they ain't gonna have the capital to start a whole new series.
The split that happened when CART was formed only lasted a couple of years. CART won because they had a better product than USAC.
The IRL/CART split was seige warfare or a war of attrition. The winner was determined by who didn't die first. In that kind of war, TG could clearly outlast CART/CCWS.
I agree with everything you say.
If all that means the current management will continue to run the sport for the foreseeable future, then the sport will soon be back to where it was before grandpa started building it up after WWII.
I agree with everything you say.
If all that means the current management will continue to run the sport for the foreseeable future, then the sport will soon be back to where it was before grandpa started building it up after WWII.
2009 will probably be more like 1946 than you think.
Hesketh
02-03-09, 12:21 PM
CART did rather well as a series without the Indy 500 from 1996 to 2002. Of course, Ganassi cherry picked a 500 and Pimpske started jonesing for yet more miniBorg-Warners... and that started the death spiral.
The return to Indy signed CART's death warrant, but it was already bleeding from the greed of its owners, who took the money and ran. I often wonder if it would have died any way.
I know some freebies were given out, but the crowd was buzzing.
-Kevin
"some" yeah. :D:rofl: Funny how bias can affect the view. If you were talking about an IRL race with that many free tix, you'd be ripping them to shreads. Look, I was there and even that day we were all "buzzing" about how many tix Penske handed out to fill the stands. There were other things we were "buzzing" about that day: most of us were a little nervous about the stand we'd just taken, wondering if we'd committed career suicide. And ALL of us were keeping one eye on the TV --- yes, tuned in to Indy. Then we tried to hide our faces when Vasser f'ed up: talk about a buzz kill. :rolleyes:
2. Why don't the teams find their balls and take back control of the sport? Thirty years ago, it was new and radical. Now, they just need to update the script which worked so well last time. Everybody wins but the moron who started this mess.
Why? Lack of $$$$$$$$$. Besides, what worked 30 years ago isn't going to work now.
"some" yeah. :D:rofl: Funny how bias can affect the view. If you were talking about an IRL race with that many free tix, you'd be ripping them to shreads. Look, I was there and even that day we were all "buzzing" about how many tix Penske handed out to fill the stands. There were other things we were "buzzing" about that day: most of us were a little nervous about the stand we'd just taken, wondering if we'd committed career suicide. And ALL of us were keeping one eye on the TV --- yes, tuned in to Indy. Then we tried to hide our faces when Vasser f'ed up: talk about a buzz kill. :rolleyes:
My friends and I paid for ours...despite the fact that CompuServe, where I worked @ the time, was an associate sponsor for Rahal. I wasn't really involed in the politics @ the time...just pissed @ FTG for ripping apart the sport. I'll defer to your insider view. And, yes, the wreck was a buzz kill.
-Kevin
Hesketh
02-04-09, 08:46 AM
My friends and I paid for ours...despite the fact that CompuServe, where I worked @ the time, was an associate sponsor for Rahal. I wasn't really involed in the politics @ the time...just pissed @ FTG for ripping apart the sport. I'll defer to your insider view. And, yes, the wreck was a buzz kill.
-Kevin
Hey Kevin, no hard feelings. Glad you were there: in a much over-used phrase lately, you witnessed history. It was thrilling and frightening all at the same time. I admit to thinking about the Boston Tea Party and the signing of the Declaration of Independence. While the race is hardly comparable, in our own way, we were traitors and were risking our livelihoods (if not our lives), hoping that the side we backed was right and would be victorious. It was, for a while. And yet, even during the height of CART's success, we all felt something was missing. Guess it's obvious, becasue once Chip broke rank, most of the rest made the return to Indy. What we found was not what we fondly remembered. It's true: you can't go back home. <sigh> :(
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