PDA

View Full Version : What about a retro or 'vintage' support series?



oddlycalm
05-27-03, 08:15 PM
What I have in mind is not actual old cars, but rather a retro series that has vintage feel. Race weekends are a bit thin event wise IMO, and this would provide a companion series that perhaps even some CART drivers would want to get involved with. The Barber Pro and Atlantic events don't quite fill out the race weekend.

In this case the vintage vibe would come from old style pre, or very low, downforce cars. I think a stock block in a safe version of a pre-aero tub would be great entertainment. Expensive materials outlawed (with the exception of Kevlar composite in the drivers box). Could be a build your own engine to a fairly tight stock block spec, or a series supplied package (quantity discounts). Say a 5.7L aluminum block and heads with simple EFI and onboard air starters. No Airboxes.

Ideally, it should be designed to run a whole season of shortish races with zero rebuilds. No pit stops during the race for service, so fuel capacity equals race length. My initial thought was that peak power should be in the 500-550hp range with high torque as well. Radio yes (safety), telemetry and driver aids no. Non-sequential crashboxes only. Make the tires good and wide to keep drag coefficient and mechanical grip high. Sidepods should also be designed to provide serious drag. They could even pick a design profile evocative of one of the better looking vintage chassis. I'd like to see costs in the Barber Pro range, realizing the transporters and other fixed costs would be unavoidable.

I haven't thought this one through much, so feel free to fire away or contribute. This came out of a discussion on stock blocks, which IMO don't belong in CART, but might be fun on CART race weekends. The popularity of vintage races inspired these thoughts. Who among us doesn’t like to see powerful formula cars power sliding around a corner? Lap times would suck, but who cares?

This is probably a poor time to further dilute the sponser pool. On the other hand, CART would pre-empt what I imagine is the inevitable retro formula car series before the IRL or NASCAR does it. Who knows, GM, Ford or DCX might even be mildly interested once it was established, if it was successful. Especially if it was the most exciting race of every weekend...oc;)

Railbird
05-27-03, 08:46 PM
aw hell OC, why not go front engine?

Why half-step?

I mean a folded aluminum tub isn't a whole lot more archaic than a tube frame Watson roadster.

Or maybe a Lancia D50 complete with pontoons.

Maybe round up a bunch of BMW inline sixes and pound out some W196 replicas.

250F Maseratis anybody?

Joe in LA
05-27-03, 08:53 PM
I thought the idea of putting some of the retired drivers in new Cobra's was a pretty good idea. Wish they had done that.

oddlycalm
05-27-03, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by Railbird
aw hell OC, why not go front engine?

I knew that was coming...:D Nah, this isn't TF, and I don't want to put CART into the Wayback Machine with Mr. Peabody.

Yeah, ok, I knew it was a lame idea. Any car made today would have to be a composite tub. Anything else would be impractical.

Everybody loves the vintage races but the problem is they don't race hard because the cars are worth a fortune, and they are dangerous of crashed hard. At Laguna, the vintage races outdraw the CART event, and here in Portland they draw a crowd nearly as large as the recent CART races.

oc

Turn7
05-28-03, 05:25 PM
I think Ford needs to put them in the new GT 40's and let them rip through the concrete canyons.

FCYTravis
05-28-03, 05:39 PM
Have you checked the schedules for most of these events? You couldn't fit another support series in with a shoehorn ;) This year's Laguna schedule is a case in point.

https://www.redshift.com/~lagunaweb/PICS/CART-Schedule.pdf

Between Barber Dodge, Toyota Atlantic, Star Mazda and a Spec Miata Challenge race (part of an SF Regional series) - wait, and don't forget those Champ Cars too - there's hardly a minute without something or other being on track.

The two Mazda series make the track's title sponsor very happy...

Peter Venkman
05-29-03, 01:34 PM
"I mean a folded aluminum tub isn't a whole lot more archaic than a tube frame Watson roadster."

Both, killers.

Aluminum monocoque, when crushed, acts like scapels, and tube frames, like ice picks.

Peter Olivola
05-29-03, 03:55 PM
The Monterey Historics isn't racing. It's a mobile concours. Steve Earle sees to that. He practically scripts every race. If you want to see real vintage racing go to the BRIC at Road America.


Originally posted by oddlycalm
Everybody loves the vintage races but the problem is they don't race hard because the cars are worth a fortune, and they are dangerous of crashed hard.

oddlycalm
05-29-03, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by FCYTravis
Have you checked the schedules for most of these events? You couldn't fit another support series in with a shoehorn ;) This year's Laguna schedule is a case in point.

Laguna's in an unusual case in point. Star Mazda normally appears with the ALMS series, not CART. I'd be happy to see Star Mazda as well, but instead we will see shifter karts (fun) and a pathetic 'best of' race for local SCCA cars from different classes (not fun) and the Miatas.

I'd gladly lose all three to see a higher horsepower formula car race, but it's clear there is no interst here in my patially baked idea, and I withdraw in humiliation....:o

oc

FCYTravis
05-29-03, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Peter Olivola
The Monterey Historics isn't racing. It's a mobile concours. Steve Earle sees to that. He practically scripts every race. If you want to see real vintage racing go to the BRIC at Road America.

Interesting. We'll see how that plays...

Travis (who is flagging a Steve Earle historics race at Sears Point this weekend...)

FCYTravis
06-01-03, 11:09 PM
Well, well, well. Peter was absolutely right. I don't know about some of the other races, but the historic Trans-Am group was blatantly scripted. In fact, our chief of flags told us as much on his walkaround this afternoon...

I saw too many nice racecars get tore up this weekend :(

Peter Olivola
06-02-03, 12:02 AM
Next time you see the SFR RE (R.J.,) say hello for me. We worked the Runoffs together last year.


Originally posted by FCYTravis
Well, well, well. Peter was absolutely right. I don't know about some of the other races, but the historic Trans-Am group was blatantly scripted. In fact, our chief of flags told us as much on his walkaround this afternoon...

I saw too many nice racecars get tore up this weekend :(

Peter Venkman
01-07-04, 08:21 PM
Just an aside, but Ziggy is one of the most intellectual guys I've run into, and his knowledge of Indycar Racing (the generic type, not the goofy thing that George is slinging out) is nothing short of amazing.

Railbird
01-07-04, 08:56 PM
while I certainly agree Peter, I can't help but think you missed your target thread....;)

Target? (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3084)