Juárez mayor moves family to El Paso

[SurfaceUnits]

EL PASO -- Police are investigating threats against Juárez Mayor Jose Reyes Ferriz, who moved his family to El Paso for safety, El Paso police Detective Carlos Carrillo said Monday.

"We received information that the Juárez mayor lives in El Paso, and that possibly they were going to come to El Paso to get him," Carrillo said. "He has not asked us for our help, but it's our duty to protect any resident of our city who may be under threat."

wild, wild southwest

[nrc]

Things are grim down there. A recent Pentagon report put Mexico at as much risk of collapse as Pakistan.

http://www.elpasotimes.com/newupdated/ci_11444354

[SurfaceUnits]

They reported a while back that after two drug gangs went at it for a while they picked up over 1500 shell casings and a dozen bullet ridden SUV's all stolen from border states.

[Ankf00]

legalize and tax weed, decriminalize coke & H and distribute in controlled manner. cartels won't have funds with which to purchase entire groups of special forces commandos, and we won't have a gazillion dollars spent on a massive non-violent crime segment of the prison population. yea yea evil, dirty, addictive, whatever, addicts are still going to become addicts, the 18th amendment was a complete and utter failure, elminates cartel revenue streams, generate tax revenue, cut prison funding obligations.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Blotter/kidnapping2_090210_mn.jpg


In what officials caution is now a dangerous and even deadly crime wave, Phoenix, Arizona has become the kidnapping capital of America, with more incidents than any other city in the world outside of Mexico City and over 370 cases last year alone. But local authorities say Washington, DC is too obsessed with al Qaeda terrorists to care about what is happening in their own backyard right now.

"We're in the eye of the storm," Phoenix Police Chief Andy Anderson told ABC News of the violent crimes and ruthless tactics spurred by Mexico's drug cartels that have expanded business across the border. "If it doesn't stop here, if we're not able to fix it here and get it turned around, it will go across the nation," he said.

In fact, kidnappings and other crimes connected to the Mexican drug cartels are quickly spreading across the border, from Texas to California. The majority of the victims are either illegal aliens or connected to the drug trade.

An ABC News' investigation uncovered horrific cases of chopped-off hands, legs and heads when a victim's family doesn't pay up fast enough.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6848672&page=1

fear not, ol Sherrif Joe's on the case!

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/SheriffJoeArpaio.jpg

[coolhand]

The Los Zetas are not afraid of crossing the US Border with assassin teams. They have done it in Pheonix and Loredo.

[coolhand]

legalize and tax weed, decriminalize coke & H and distribute w/ 'scrip. suddenly cartels won't have funds with which to purchase entire groups of special forces commandos.

Or get serious about controlling the border. :(

[Ankf00]

They reported a while back that after two drug gangs went at it for a while they picked up over 1500 shell casings and a dozen bullet ridden SUV's all stolen from border states.

all one needs to know about the state of things in the border states is the Mexican Navy now utilizes their F-16 squadron for cartel related strike missions.

[oddlycalm]

It's definitely not good. We ended all employee travel to Mexico back in 2007.

It's not just the politicians that have a house North of the border. Many thousands of middle class Mexicans own condos in San Antonio, El Paso and other Southwest cities. For now they use them for getaways and shopping trips but most will tell you that they want to feel like they have someplace to land if they need to get away for a while.

oc

[Ankf00]

Or get serious about controlling the border. :(

blockading the gulf coast in the 80's is what drove the primary means of traffiking through interior MX in the first place.

we can spend billions of dollars we dont have on a border fence, thousands of troops we dont have on manning it, and the traffiking routes just move to a different side of the map again.

[ChampcarShark]

Or get serious about controlling the border. :(

The cartel assassins have legal documents to cross the border, so it does not make a difference.

As it is it takes about 3 hours average to cross the port of entry, I can not imagine the border patrol asking everyone what kind of job they do.

[oddlycalm]

blockading the gulf coast in the 80's is what drove the primary means of traffiking through interior MX in the first place.

Exactly right, the "War On Drugs" that was declared by Richard Nixon 40yrs ago has been a spectacular fail. It has cost hundreds of billions and it hasn't worked. We have the largest prison population per capita of any developed nation yet drugs one the street are still plentiful and cheap. The only real success has been to make narco trafficers incredibly wealthy.

Time for plan B. It costs a lot less to clean the gutters than it does to conduct a war.

oc

[Methanolandbrats]

One thing I've always wanted to do is travel to Mexico and attend a FMF game, I think I'll rethink that plan and watch the passion on TV.

[Ankf00]

One thing I've always wanted to do is travel to Mexico and attend a FMF game, I think I'll rethink that plan and watch the passion on TV.

don't confuse interior mexico w/ the border. the border is its own beast.

[Methanolandbrats]

don't confuse interior mexico w/ the border. the border is its own beast. So if I make it to the stadium I'll be ok? :D

[indyfan31]

I'm pretty sure coolhand meant "control" the thousands of miles of border that don't have a "crossing", I'm also sure you knew that already.

For all of you fantasizing that legalizing heroin and cocaine will solve everything, think about this. Do you really think the government will allow the growing and harvesting coca and opium? No. Do you really think they'll allow the operation of processing plants necessary to make these two legitimately deadly products? Hell No.
So, in the event that the Earth tilts on it's axis and the drugs are legalized, where's the product going to come from? That's right: drug cartels.

That said, I lived in Juarez in the early 70s along with all of my extended family; they all worked in El Paso. It was a nice town, about twice the size of El Paso, albeit still poor. But nobody cared, stuff was cheap and plentiful for shoppers.
It also took about 3 minutes to get across the border, maybe 15 minutes on a busy weekend. It's sad that the town has deteriorated to where it's at now.

[Ankf00]

So if I make it to the stadium I'll be ok? :D

Is the stadium in Nuevo Laredo, Matamoras, Reynosa, Ciudad Acuna, Piedras Negras, or Juarez? If "no," pass GO, collect $200, keep life ins. policy locked away for another day.

[Methanolandbrats]

Is the stadium in Nuevo Laredo, Matamoras, Reynosa, Ciudad Acuna, Piedras Negras, or Juarez? If "no," pass GO, collect $200, keep life ins. policy locked away for another day. I don't know, I watch a lot of the games on TV and going to one of those stadiums just seems like something a soccer fan should do.

[Ankf00]

Monterrey, not border crime infested, industrial center, mucho money around town so safer. Gorgeous wimmins and parties all night.

[oddlycalm]

For all of you fantasizing that legalizing heroin and cocaine will solve everything, think about this. Do you really think the government will allow the growing and harvesting coca and opium?
It's already happening on an industrial pharmaceutical scale. Where do you think the morphine, oxycodone, dental cocaine, etc. come from? Scaling that up would be easy and take very little time. Drug companies would welcome the extra business.

oc

[Sean Malone]

And yet Amsterdam is retracting it's legalized narcotics, so I hear.

While we are legalizing things...can we do away with speed limits? Thanks.

[nrc]

No legalized drugs until fully automatic weapons are legal. Gotta protect my stuff from all the new crackheads.

[Ed_Severson]

Am I the only one here confused as to why an El Paso detective would issue a public statement to inform us that a man who was threatened moved his family to El Paso for safety's sake? Wouldn't it have been a wee bit safer to, oh, I don't know, not publicly confirm their whereabouts?

That's some fine work, Lou.

[Michaelhatesfans]

Legalize marijuana and Oregon becomes the economic powerhouse of the universe.:thumbup::laugh:

[Michaelhatesfans]

It's already happening on an industrial pharmaceutical scale. Where do you think the morphine, oxycodone, dental cocaine, etc. come from? Scaling that up would be easy and take very little time. Drug companies would welcome the extra business.

oc

As a very wise man once pointed out, "It's not which drugs you're strung out on they care about so much as whose."

[chop456]

Legalize marijuana and Oregon becomes the economic powerhouse of the universe.:thumbup::laugh:


Then maybe you could un-propose that 1,800% beer tax hike, too. :shakehead

I know that at one time, Kentucky was pretty high :gomer: on the list of weed-growing states.

[ChampcarShark]

Am I the only one here confused as to why an El Paso detective would issue a public statement to inform us that a man who was threatened moved his family to El Paso for safety's sake? Wouldn't it have been a wee bit safer to, oh, I don't know, not publicly confirm their whereabouts?

That's some fine work, Lou.

Some people do stooopid things.

The police here in town and in Las Cruces, nearby have received notices from the cartel that they will, one of these days, cross over to kill people who flee Juarez.

I was confused too, but then again the Juarez mayor said on a public statement on mexican tv that he had sent his family already to his house in El Paso for permanent residency.

The local police is kind of warning us.

[ChampcarShark]

One thing I've always wanted to do is travel to Mexico and attend a FMF game, I think I'll rethink that plan and watch the passion on TV.

My two sons go to every game, (my wife and I go once in a while) as son as you cross the port of entry you see the soldiers, when entering the stadium there they are again.

The good thing is that the stadium is close to the border. The only catch is the two to three hour wait to cross back to the US.

The danger is with the local team fans. Games to stay away in Juarez: Santos and America. their fans always manage to start a fight. Other than that it has been pretty safe.

[indyfan31]

It's already happening on an industrial pharmaceutical scale. Where do you think the morphine, oxycodone, dental cocaine, etc. come from? Scaling that up would be easy and take very little time. Drug companies would welcome the extra business.

oc

If you mean novocaine, it's a synthetic, it's not really cocaine. I'm sure you're right about the pharmaceutical industry, but the FDA would NEVER approve them, they can't even get past weed.

[Ankf00]

For all of you fantasizing that legalizing heroin and cocaine will solve everything, think about this. Do you really think the government will allow the growing and harvesting coca and opium? No. Do you really think they'll allow the operation of processing plants necessary to make these two legitimately deadly products? Hell No.
So, in the event that the Earth tilts on it's axis and the drugs are legalized, where's the product going to come from? That's right: drug cartels.


if there is no exponential markup on the end product due to prohibition, the excessive margins the cartels profit off of wither overnight.

by your argument, the mob would still control all alcohol production and distribution in the US despite the 21st amendment. we know that is not the case.

[ChampcarShark]

Can we include prostiturion in the list of legalized drugs????
Can we???
Can we???

[Wheel-Nut]

Have no fear, the Texas Militia is on the lookout.

[ChampcarShark]

Have no fear, the Texas Militia is on the lookout.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's the minute man in action.

[indyfan31]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

That's the minute man in action.

That looks like a LOT more than one "minute". :eek:

[indyfan31]

if there is no exponential markup on the end product due to prohibition, the excessive margins the cartels profit off of wither overnight.

by your argument, the mob would still control all alcohol production and distribution in the US despite the 21st amendment. we know that is not the case.
My argument was that the government will never allow the legal growth, production, or sale of those drugs in this country, therefore saying that legalization is the answer is still fantasy. Besides, even after taking alcohol away from them the mob are still killing people, and the cartels will be too.

[Insomniac]

My argument was that the government will never allow the legal growth, production, or sale of those drugs in this country, therefore saying that legalization is the answer is still fantasy. Besides, even after taking alcohol away from them the mob are still killing people, and the cartels will be too.

Aren't mobs killing people mostly over drugs?

[oddlycalm]

If you mean novocaine, it's a synthetic, it's not really cocaine. I'm sure you're right about the pharmaceutical industry, but the FDA would NEVER approve them, they can't even get past weed.

No, I don't mean Novocaine or Lidocaine, I mean pharmaceutical cocaine hydrochloride. It's used as an anesthetic for dental work, biopsies, et. The FDA has naught to do with it as these drugs have existed in legitimate medicine for well over 100yrs and are dirt cheap. Cocaine was introduced commercially by Parke-Davis (Pfizer) and has been sold commercially ever since. It wasn't illegal until 1911.

Morphine is still the gold standard for serious pain control and I'd venture to say that it would be hard to find a hospital anywhere in the world without it. Legality is the only issue and we are past the point where prohibition ended and arrived at a point where Mexico is at risk as a civil society. I'm simply not willing to risk a failed state on our Southern border simply in a vain attempt to keep losers off drugs.

oc

[oddlycalm]

Have no fear, the Texas Militia is on the lookout.

So if he discovers people sneaking in he eats them...? :laugh:

oc

[Ankf00]

My argument was that the government will never allow the legal growth, production, or sale of those drugs in this country, therefore saying that legalization is the answer is still fantasy. Besides, even after taking alcohol away from them the mob are still killing people, and the cartels will be too.


So, in the event that the Earth tilts on it's axis and the drugs are legalized, where's the product going to come from? That's right: drug cartels.

is the mob taking over major metropolises? no.

if all columbian distributors can get for coca & poppy is a price on par w/ any other agricultral commodity, will cartels have the revenues and incentives to take over major metropolises and governments? no.

will cartels still exist? yes. same as the mob. their organizations, talents, and infrastructure will still be in place for other uses, same as the mob. and same as the mob after the 21st amendment they won't have the ability or motivation to wage outright war.

[indyfan31]

is the mob taking over major metropolises? no.

if all columbian distributors can get for coca & poppy is a price on par w/ any other agricultral commodity, will cartels have the revenues and incentives to take over major metropolises and governments? no.

will cartels still exist? yes. same as the mob. their organizations, talents, and infrastructure will still be in place for other uses, same as the mob. and same as the mob after the 21st amendment they won't have the ability or motivation to wage outright war.

You're dancing around the point I'm making (or you're running out of argument), It doesn't matter what the economics are. THESE DRUGS WILL NEVER BE LEGALIZED.

[Sean Malone]

No, I don't mean Novocaine or Lidocaine, I mean pharmaceutical cocaine hydrochloride. It's used as an anesthetic for dental work, biopsies, et. The FDA has naught to do with it as these drugs have existed in legitimate medicine for well over 100yrs and are dirt cheap. Cocaine was introduced commercially by Parke-Davis (Pfizer) and has been sold commercially ever since. It wasn't illegal until 1911.

Morphine is still the gold standard for serious pain control and I'd venture to say that it would be hard to find a hospital anywhere in the world without it. Legality is the only issue and we are past the point where prohibition ended and arrived at a point where Mexico is at risk as a civil society. I'm simply not willing to risk a failed state on our Southern border simply in a vain attempt to keep losers off drugs.

oc

Drug debates aside, the problem is that the Mexican gov continues to allow this to worsen.

[Ankf00]

You're dancing around the point I'm making (or you're running out of argument), It doesn't matter what the economics are. THESE DRUGS WILL NEVER BE LEGALIZED.

i offered the scenario I believe plays out if they ARE legalized, and that scenario is why they should be legalized. that was the argument.


whether they will be or not is a completely different discussion, which is why in your first post you concluded with "OK so assuming they do become legalized..."

as far as your, completely different, argument is concerned: I believe weed will get there on a state level where the DEA will not try to interfere within 10 years, tough economic times are what brought about the 21st amendment.

[indyfan31]

i offered the scenario I believe plays out if they ARE legalized, and that scenario is why they should be legalized. that was the argument.


whether they will be or not is a completely different discussion, which is why in your first post you concluded with "OK so assuming they do become legalized..."

as far as your, completely different, argument is concerned: I believe weed will get there on a state level where the DEA will not try to interfere within 10 years, tough economic times are what brought about the 21st amendment.

Ok.
Ok.
California already legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes, and the Feds are still raiding the places that sell it and making arrests - completely ignoring state law. We're in pretty tough economic times right now, especially in California, and there isn't a whiff of change in the air (pun intended). We can "shoulda" and "woulda" all day long, but it ain't gonna happen.

[indyfan31]

Drug debates aside, the problem is that the Mexican gov continues to allow this to worsen.
You're right, they could slow it down a lot (maybe not stop it completely) if they wanted to, but I've a feeling some look at it as a source of revenue for the country.

[Ankf00]

We're in pretty tough economic times right now, especially in California, and there isn't a whiff of change in the air (pun intended). We can "shoulda" and "woulda" all day long, but it ain't gonna happen.

state leg just introduced a legalize & tax bill. not going to pass, but public support is about 50/50, which is a long way from 10 years ago.

[KLang]

Gotta agree with indyfan31 on this one. A few states might flirt with legalizing pot but I can't believe anyone will legalize the harder stuff.

[SurfaceUnits]

Gotta agree with indyfan31 on this one. A few states might flirt with legalizing pot but I can't believe anyone will legalize the harder stuff.

you're right. too much competition for the legalized drug manufacturers.

[indyfan31]

It's not any better in the interior state of Zacatecas (http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fg-mexico-drugs-breakdown26-2009feb26,0,5636184.story?track=rss) either.

[oddlycalm]

Yup, drugs will always be illegal and Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers will be around forever. Amazing how much the conventional wisdom can change in just a year.

oc

[TrueBrit]

Ok.
Ok.
California already legalized marijuana for medicinal purposes, and the Feds are still raiding the places that sell it and making arrests - completely ignoring state law.

Until today...the new AG said that would stop as of now...Apparently things do change...

[Sean Malone]

Adds a whole new complexity to sobriety check points on the holiday weekends.

The feds will legalize the junk and then do everything in their power to make sure no can get it and or relegate it to the fractions like alcohol. Our personal freedoms are going the way of the doodoo with each passing day and it scares the hell out of me.

I think surface guy is on to something in moving to a Caribbean island, if you can find one that Richard Branson hasn't bought already.

[G.]

Adds a whole new complexity to sobriety check points on the holiday weekends.

The feds will legalize the junk and then do everything in their power to make sure no can get it and or relegate it to the fractions like alcohol. Our personal freedoms are going the way of the doodoo with each passing day and it scares the hell out of me.

I think surface guy is on to something in moving to a Caribbean island, if you can find one that Richard Branson hasn't bought already.

My guess is that he'll let you burn one on his island...

(btw, the personal freedom encroachment argument works better when you're NOT posting in a topic that includes legalizing drugs)

[Sean Malone]

(btw, the personal freedom encroachment argument works better when you're NOT posting in a topic that includes legalizing drugs)

That was my point. Even if the gov legalized narcotics, the regulation that would result would more than likely create an underground which in the end would result in even more overflowing prisons and police with even more reason to search you and your house and your car.

[indyfan31]

Until today...the new AG said that would stop as of now...Apparently things do change...

Well I'll be damned, pigs do fly.

[G.]

Well I'll be damned, pigs do fly.

Can we exercise our 2nd Amendment rights and shoot them down?


Mmmmmmm. Bacon. Now with extra lead.

[oddlycalm]

That was my point. Even if the gov legalized narcotics, the regulation that would result would more than likely create an underground which in the end would result in even more overflowing prisons and police with even more reason to search you and your house and your car.
Could be, it took some time after prohibition to sort out the tax resistance, particularly in the South. Revenuers and runners are what led to NASCAR, so maybe legalizing drugs will lead to a new racing series....:gomer:

oc

[mapguy]

Revenuers and runners are what led to NASCAR, so maybe legalizing drugs will lead to a new racing series....:gomer:

oc

IMSA?

[Sean Malone]

To answer my own question earlier in this thread, I read a headline article yesterday that a joint military task force (Mexico, US and CN) is currently targeting drug cartels in Mexico. 40,000 Mexican troops are involved.

[racermike]

Monterrey, not border crime infested, industrial center, mucho money around town so safer. Gorgeous wimmins and parties all night.

I went to the Champcar race in Monterrey in 2001, and 2002, and never felt uncomfortable at all walking around by myself. Residents there were very friendly, and both trips were a great experience.

That is where the major university is there, and like Ank said, is very rich and clean, compared to a lot of other cities.

In 1999 I went on business trip to Mexico City for 3 weeks. We had armed escorts to travel with us to different sites that we had to survey and were told even around the hotel to not walk around in groups of less than 4 people.

[SurfaceUnits]

Until today...the new AG said that would stop as of now...Apparently things do change...

when Cali defaults pretty soon and the Feds take over, they'll be back under federal law and arrests will resume. Yo

[coolhand]

In Monterrey Champ Car team owners and drivers (well the wealthy ones) drove around with body guards and went to dinner at the special places that had high walls and bullet proof street fronts.

People also had stuff (laptops) stolen from hotel rooms. Being safe by Mexico standards does not mean much.

Plus the Monterrey is the last big city inland for the Gulf Cartel before Laredo and Texas.

[SurfaceUnits]

Mexico pours troops into border city stricken by drug war

* 7,000 soldiers, federal police sent to quell violence among drug cartels
* Killings down from six a day to five in a week, senator says
* Human rights advocate says troops put rights of citizens at risk

Nearly 7,000 Mexican soldiers and federal police arrived in the U.S.-Mexico border city of Ciudad Juarez this week to restore security to a city plagued by a long-standing, bloody drug war.

Random vehicle checkpoints, patrols of masked soldiers and police in SWAT gear are some of the signs of the massive military buildup ordered by Mexico's president, Ciudad Juarez police spokesman Jaime Torres Valadez said Thursday.

Another 1,500 soldiers are expected to join the 3,500 that rolled into Juarez earlier this week to support municipal police in street patrols and ultimately take control of their operations, Torres said.

In addition to the army troops, about 3,000 federal agents arrived to carry out investigations Torres likened to those of the FBI in the United States.

"They'll stay as long as necessary," Torres said, in the city across the border from El Paso, Texas.

Extreme violence among warring drug cartels and between them and the Mexican government has long plagued Juarez and the state of Chihuahua, but the situation has been getting worse.

Last month, the city's chief of police was obliged to quit after threats from organized crime to kill a policeman every day that he remained on the job.

[indyfan31]

It's more like 700 federal agents (http://www.elpasotimes.com/juarez/ci_11830672) but it's still making a difference.

[SurfaceUnits]

The influx of thousands of Mexican soldiers into Juárez is being credited for a sharp drop in the number of daily homicides while officials prepare for the military to take command of city police and other departments.

The Mexican army sent 3,200 soldiers into Juárez during the weekend, and 700 federal police officers arrived by plane on Monday as reinforcements for the 2,000 troops who were already part of the anti-crime Joint Operation Chihuahua.

[Ankf00]

In Monterrey Champ Car team owners and drivers (well the wealthy ones) drove around with body guards and went to dinner at the special places that had high walls and bullet proof street fronts.

People also had stuff (laptops) stolen from hotel rooms. Being safe by Mexico standards does not mean much.

Plus the Monterrey is the last big city inland for the Gulf Cartel before Laredo and Texas.

considering most here aren't rolling with a net worth of Ganassi or Forsythe, I think most here would be alright.