GM to kill Pontiac line

[Napoleon]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSzU5bt90cWM&refer=home

[Sean Malone]

I thought GM killed the Pontiac line along time ago. *rim shot*

[nrc]

In other news, plastic body cladding and fake hood scoop futures plunged today.

[Sean Malone]

That is hilarious nrc!

I haven't heard if Pontiac was slated to receive a new Firebird based on the new Camaro chassis but without it, what is Pontiac? Really nothing more than fleet cars for rental companies. The newish GTO is a rebadged Holden on a 10 year old chassis with a very non 'green' image 6.0ltr V8 (does it even have cylinder reduction technology? Never mind, I don't care).

GM wanted to make Pontiac the 'excitement' brand but they lacked their one car with the most excitement, the Corvette. There was talk when the Caddy XLR (Corvette chassis) hit the market that Pontiac would get a version OR, god forbid, GM was going to change the 'vette to be a Pontiac. Of course that would never happen, and didn't.

Besides the tacky exterior pieces Pontiac became famous for, there were 2 things I couldn't stand about Pontiac interiors, one, Pontiac insisted on having teeny tiny little buttons and sliders for every function in an attempt to seem 'techy' I suppose and two, all of those little buttons and sliders were the cheapest feeling things on the planet. A '92 Honda Civic has better interior quality than an '08 Pontiac. Truth.

[Napoleon]

In other news, plastic body cladding and fake hood scoop futures plunged today.

You left out flaming chickens.

[Napoleon]

I haven't heard if Pontiac was slated to receive a new Firebird based on the new Camaro chassis but without it, what is Pontiac?

They do have the Solstice.

[Sean Malone]

it's one of the problems with the shared plateform business model, that GM and Chrysler both used, to try to create image rather than substance i.e. decent cars.

"buy our Pontiac Grand Am, it's the excitement model!!" When it's the same damn car as their Buick, Olds (at the time) and Chevy except it has horrid ribbed side cladding and a gauge pod that looks like a 50's B movie actress's bra.

Dodge did the same thing with their marketing...all Dodge's were red in all ads and all of their Chrysler's where silver. You see ( I have to explain this because we're all idiots. I learned it from a guy who told me) red = excitement, silver = sophistication. Got it? :gomer:

When GM had 7 different models based off the same chassis/engine combo sold under 4 different makes...the end result is...where they are.

I'm not saying shared platforms are bad per se, but the way GM and Chrysler implemented them was. It was too diluted and based too heavily on marketing instead of quality. But I think I said that already.

It's frustrating really. I want America to have competitive car manufacturers. It's hard to imagine America without the big 3. But they need to streamline and focus on the product. It's like they didn't learn anything from the '80's.

Props to Ford for at least trying. they seem to keep their product lines fresh and competitive with foreign makes. They still don't make a car I want, but their moving in the right direction.

[Sean Malone]

They do have the Solstice.

Ah yes, the fashionable over weight, underpowered two seater that keeps breaking half shafts. It's an attractive little car that the critics heralded as the 'new' attitude of GM at it's debut. I'd love to see a survey of potential Miata buyers who were swayed by the Solstice.

[Michaelhatesfans]

What happens when they do the obligatory Smokey and the Bandit re-make?

[Michaelhatesfans]

Besides the tacky exterior pieces Pontiac became famous for, there were 2 things I couldn't stand about Pontiac interiors, one, Pontiac insisted on having teeny tiny little buttons and sliders for every function in an attempt to seem 'techy' I suppose and two, all of those little buttons and sliders were the cheapest feeling things on the planet. A '92 Honda Civic has better interior quality than an '08 Pontiac. Truth.

Agreed. I rented a Grand Prix a year or so ago when our car was being worked on. Absolutely horrendous interior. They were still using the same goofy redish orange led displays that they fell in love with back around 1982 or so. Between that and the Miami Vice inspired contours, it was enough to keep me off of GM lots for many more years to come (not to mention that it drove like crap). It was the same feeling that I get when I walk into a hotel room and they're still stuck in the light oak and brass phase. Cringe worthy.

[oddlycalm]

"buy our Pontiac Grand Am, it's the excitement model!!"
Interesting you should say that. The original Grand Am wasn't a half bad car but Pontiac forced out the chief stylist and creative director of the project for being "too artsy and eccentric." I knew Lynn from a hot air ballooning club and he went on to do great work elsewhere. Pontiac had also forced out DeLorean a few years prior also for fighting with the bosses over style.

By contrast, Ed Cole, who was CEO at the time, had to have his wife Dolly pick out his clothes right down to socks. He never set foot in the store without her. My friend and former employer at CF Hanna where he shopped always had fun stories about it when I'd come to town for a visit.

Cutting edge cars come from people with creative talent, they don't come from elderly momma's boy accountants that never learned to dress themselves.

oc

[Gnam]

Rest in Pieces

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6561/4pontiacaztec.jpg

Topic: If the Aztec had been a hybrid, it would have sold as well as the Prius.
Discuss.

[datachicane]

Aaaaarrrrggh, my eyes!

[Winston Wolfe]

Rest in Pieces

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6561/4pontiacaztec.jpg

Topic: If the Aztec had been a hybrid, it would have sold as well as the Prius.
Discuss.

I saw one of these in YELLOW the other day... yup, the same color as the Nissan Xterra yellow was.... man, is that an ugly vehicle.

After reading the other posts in the thread, the rental car subject comes up all the time. Lots of people have non-domestic cars (Jap, German, Etc.) and when the travel for biz or family - they often are left with a domestic product from Ford or GM. When you drive one of these p.o.s. rental units, it solidifies your decision to purchase a non-GM/Ford product and you wonder how much longer these domestics can crank out this sub-par junk and get away with the union members and "buy-American" crowd buying them regardless of how bad they are.... well, I guess we just found out... Virtually every car mag test over the last 4-5 years has demonstrated that even the Koreans with their Hyundai products are making better headway by building better Accord and Camry imitator products that the Big 3. No one "aspires" to purchase a middle of the road sedan from Detroit, or Korea, but when looking at HUGE rebates and factory incentives, the domestic sudden appears to be a good "deal" - trouble is, Detroit has been selling the "deal" for too long, and now they are in serious trouble.
The Aztek is proof positive that GM styling is out of touch with reality for a vehicle in this "segment" - Honda has the Element, and Nissan the Xterra - GM has this godawful p.o.s...

[extramundane]

I haven't heard if Pontiac was slated to receive a new Firebird based on the new Camaro chassis but without it, what is Pontiac? Really nothing more than fleet cars for rental companies. The newish GTO is a rebadged Holden on a 10 year old chassis with a very non 'green' image 6.0ltr V8 (does it even have cylinder reduction technology? Never mind, I don't care).

They actually haven't had a GTO for a couple years, and the platform for the current G8 (aka Holden Commodore) is only about 3-4 years old. The G8's a nice ride ('specially the GT and GXP versions), and I'm not even an "American car" guy. Had they ever released the sportwagon, I'd have given it a serious look.


GM wanted to make Pontiac the 'excitement' brand but they lacked their one car with the most excitement, the Corvette. There was talk when the Caddy XLR (Corvette chassis) hit the market that Pontiac would get a version OR, god forbid, GM was going to change the 'vette to be a Pontiac. Of course that would never happen, and didn't.

They could have made it into a tight little performance niche brand though. The G8s, a lighter and/or more powerful Solstice and a new Firebird I think would have proven a fine portfolio. But no, they had to rebadge the Aveo (nee Daewoo) and some half-assed SUVs so the Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers would have "options." :rolleyes:

[Sean Malone]

They actually haven't had a GTO for a couple years, and the platform for the current G8 (aka Holden Commodore) is only about 3-4 years old. The G8's a nice ride ('specially the GT and GXP versions), and I'm not even an "American car" guy. Had they ever released the sportwagon, I'd have given it a serious look.



They could have made it into a tight little performance niche brand though. The G8s, a lighter and/or more powerful Solstice and a new Firebird I think would have proven a fine portfolio. But no, they had to rebadge the Aveo (nee Daewoo) and some half-assed SUVs so the Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealers would have "options." :rolleyes:


When the latest GTO came out I remember the magazine critics absolutely panning it because in their words, not mine, it was a "10 year old Holden". Could have been a figure of speach. I didn't know they stopped making them (shows how out of touch I am and I used to follow American cars). So they took the GTO, added two more doors and...well.

People in the market for high performance sedans...don't buy Pontiacs. I guess GM knows that now. :D

[Sean Malone]

Rest in Pieces



Topic: If the Aztec had been a hybrid, it would have sold as well as the Prius.
Discuss.

True.

[extramundane]

When the latest GTO came out I remember the magazine critics absolutely panning it because in their words, not mine, it was a "10 year old Holden". Could have been a figure of speach. I didn't know they stopped making them (shows how out of touch I am and I used to follow American cars). So they took the GTO, added two more doors and...well.

Yeah, that's probably right for the GTO. It was a decent car, but not great for the price. Especially considering they gave it such a revered name in US car history.

The G8's several rungs higher, but, y'know, too little too late.

[oddlycalm]

They could have made it into a tight little performance niche brand though.
You're right, they could have done a whole spectrum of of things that would have made sense and build a brand. Not only did they not do any of them, they persecuted their employees that tried and forced them out for noncomformitty.

oc

[emjaya]

The GTO was based on the 1997 VT-VZ chassis. The G8 is based on the new 2006 VE. I'm not a holden guy, but I like the VE, especially the sportwagon.

[ferrarigod]

good riddance. bad rubbish.

[Sean Malone]

I spent a little time looking over the current Pontiac lineup on their website and reading some online reviews and little did I know that GM has done quite a bit in trying to clean up what I had known of recent Pontiac i.e. plastic ribbed cladding and f aux hood scoops. They seem to have gone out on the minimalistic approach. On one hand that is refreshing, on the other hand, now their cars are very boring and lost in the crowd and decades behind imports.

[Sean Malone]

GM will also cease production of Hummer, Saturn and Saab vehicles and shed 21,000 jobs by year's end...


...A big part of that reduction would be eliminating Pontiac, which GM today added to the list of targeted brands. Hummer, Saab and Saturn were already slated for closure.

I hadn't heard about Hummer, Saab and Saturn. I read rumors they might sells those brands off but not close them all together.


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-gm28-2009apr28,0,7093793.story

[cameraman]

Sell or close. That is some lazy reporting.

[Napoleon]

I hadn't heard about Hummer, Saab and Saturn. I read rumors they might sells those brands off but not close them all together.

They were originally to make an announcement on Hummer 2 or 3 weeks ago and it was widely anticipated that they would announce they were closing Hummer. When the day came they said they were putting off the anouncement a couple of months. They have been shopping Saturn and I thought got an offer. In any event all 3 of the brands have no slated product to sell beyond something like 2010.