Chrysler files bankruptcy

[Napoleon]

The first major US bankruptcy of an automaker since Studebaker in 1933.

I say bring back the rich Corinthian leather and the Cordoba to try to revive the company.

[Ankf00]

bondholders stand to make more money via CDS in bankruptcy. does this mean Fiat's small engine tech gets sold off too?

[Sean Malone]

In a televised statement, President Obama officially announced Chrysler will file for reorganization under Chapter 11 today in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan. It will be the first time a major U.S. automaker has filed bankruptcy. Chrysler will also form an alliance with Fiat SpA.

“Over the past month, seemingly insurmountable obstacles have been overcome,” the President said. “Chrysler and Fiat have formed a partnership that has a strong chance of success .”

As planned when the alliance was originally announced, Fiat will be able to take a majority stake in Chrysler once all government loans have been repaid.

[JLMannin]

Wow. The same company that makes Ferrari's will also make Plymouth Voyager minivans.

[STD]

Are they going to bring Plymouth back? :laugh:

[Methanolandbrats]

I want a V12 Omni :thumbup:

[extramundane]

I want a V12 Omni :thumbup:

Goes Like Hell Some more Some more?

[opinionated ow]

The problem with Chrysler Dodge is apart from the Viper there are no desirable cars in their whole line up.

GM could if they wanted call on their international resources and start selling Opel Agila, Astra, Zafira and Insignia and Holden Commodore as Chevrolets and have world class products on their plate. CDJ can't.

[extramundane]

The problem with Chrysler Dodge is apart from the Viper there are no desirable cars in their whole line up.

Not entirely true. As bad as the Sebring/Avenger, Compass, Caliber et al are, they still have a fairly strong truck & minivan product. And while it's not my cup of tea, the 300C/Charger platform seems to get good marks.


GM could if they wanted call on their international resources and start selling Opel Agila, Astra, Zafira and Insignia and Holden Commodore as Chevrolets and have world class products on their plate. CDJ can't.

GM already sells the Astra and Commodore here and they've sold squat. Sure, they could slap a bowtie on the front and probably move a few thousand more units, but short of making it the new Malibu, people aren't going to buy a Chevy Astra en masse any more than they're currently buying a Saturn Astra. They basically are about to sell the Insignia here as a Buick- it may not sell as a Buick, but it definitely wouldn't sell as a Chevrolet. And the notion that the Agila or Zafira would sell in any quantity here is laughable.

GM as it stands sells some pretty decent cars in this country- leaps and bounds above what it did not too long ago. But as long as the public thinks of GM as rattles, groans and Fisher Price-style interiors, it doesn't matter what they're selling. And I say that as someone who did a dance of happiness when Carmax bought my old POS Vectra-rebadged-as-Saturn and put me out of my misery.

[chop456]

Ford, OTOH, as we've discussed at length, has all sorts of tasty Euro models. I haven't heard anything about the Fiesta lately, though.

Fiat has the 500 and some overly quirky offerings. Other than their small diesel tech, I don't know what Chrysler's after besides just grabbing onto anything that floats.

[Sean Malone]

Betrayal by Cerberus

Though the Cerberus people tried to portray themselves as patriots rescuing a great American automaker, in the end, Steve Feinberg did not invest his own money to rescue the company from bankruptcy, and tried to link up with numerous Chinese companies. While in some cases the sales would have made sense, for example trying to sell parts and the Newark paint shop to Chinese automakers, they also appear to have tried to sell large parts of the company itself, and appear to have been willing to break up Chrysler despite constant statements that they were keeping the company whole.

Tom LaSorda, in his court statements, wrote:

Chrysler sent letters to parties, primarily in China, whom we thought would be potentially interested in purchasing our assets. Over the next two months, several companies, including Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co., Tempo International Group, Hawtai Automobiles, and Chery Automotive Co., expressed interest in purchasing specific vehicles, powertrains, intellectual property rights, distribution channels and automotive brands.

Rumors surrounding an attempted sale to GM, which would have been disastrous for employees at both companies but would have kept assets in the United States, appear to be true; LaSorda wrote that Nardelli himself called Rick Wagoner in January 2009 to try to restart the merger. GM was not interested.

LaSorda said that Chrysler tried to form alliances with Nissan, GM, Volkswagen, Tata Motors, Magna, GAZ, Hyundai, Honda, and Toyota. The alliance with Toyota suggested by LaSorda and Jim Press would have had Toyota using Chrysler factories to build new products. Toyota quickly rejected the proposal, as did Honda.

Talks with Nissan started in 2007, as rumored. In 2008, Nissan and Chrysler exchanged term sheets, but Nissan could not get the needed financing. They tried again later in 2008, with executives from both companies, but were unable to nail down financing; in January 2009, Nissan was no longer interested.

Talks with Fiat apparently began in March 2008, and were more fruitful. Link (http://www.allpar.com/corporate/cerberus/bankruptcy.html)

CNN did a survey yesterday where 62% of those questioned said they would buy an American car. I would like to know how many of those 62% currently own foreign cars.

[Sean Malone]

Ford, OTOH, as we've discussed at length, has all sorts of tasty Euro models. I haven't heard anything about the Fiesta lately, though.

Fiat has the 500 and some overly quirky offerings. Other than their small diesel tech, I don't know what Chrysler's after besides just grabbing onto anything that floats.

yeah, the car critics are practically giddy that the 500 may be coming to the US.
I'd like to see Chrysler wipe the slate of their current product line and come back with an entirely new design scheme in their lineup. If it's business as usual under a new company logo...what's the point if no one is buying their cars. Heck, I've been a life long fan of Chrysler and I won't buy one. :(

[extramundane]

Ford, OTOH, as we've discussed at length, has all sorts of tasty Euro models. I haven't heard anything about the Fiesta lately, though.

They just did a big PR campaign that put 50 or 100 Euro Fiestas into the hands of Americans for 6 months. So far the reaction has been positive, though there are concerns that the build quality of the Mexican-built car we're getting won't live up to the German-built Euro Fiesta.

If they'd bring a proper Focus over as well, Ford's US lineup would be pretty strong.

[Napoleon]

They just did a big PR campaign that put 50 or 100 Euro Fiestas into the hands of Americans for 6 months.

I know about 3 weeks ago I was running into online ads of Ford pimping reading the blogs of the kids they gave those cars to (I think they were college age).

[opinionated ow]

GM already sells the Astra and Commodore here and they've sold squat. Sure, they could slap a bowtie on the front and probably move a few thousand more units, but short of making it the new Malibu, people aren't going to buy a Chevy Astra en masse any more than they're currently buying a Saturn Astra. They basically are about to sell the Insignia here as a Buick- it may not sell as a Buick, but it definitely wouldn't sell as a Chevrolet. And the notion that the Agila or Zafira would sell in any quantity here is laughable.

And if what you say is correct it proves how out of touch with the rest of the world the American car buyers are...

Be realistic. People buy VWs and BMWs by the bucketload. All those bar the commodore are designed by the German design bureau of GM. They are like every other eurobox. And if the name badges are the issue, give them Chevrolet nameplates of significance. Really not that complicated. If they start selling cars that actually appeal in the rest of the world, they might have a fighting chance at survival.

As for the Agila specifically, they already move the Daewoo Kalos in numbers and it costs about the same to make as an Agila but is about 100% better. If you can't sell those then there is absolutely no way you have a legitimate case for remaining in business.

[extramundane]

And if what you say is correct it proves how out of touch with the rest of the world the American car buyers are...

The American car market is unlike any other in the world. You can call it "out of touch" but good, bad or indifferent, it is what it is.


Be realistic.

How much time have you actually spent in the US? What works in other parts of the world doesn't always work here. It's that simple.

[cameraman]

CNN did a survey yesterday where 62% of those questioned said they would buy an American car. I would like to know how many of those 62% currently own foreign cars.

If an American company built a Subaru Outback I'd buy it.
They don't even come close.

[TKGAngel]

Heck, I've been a life long fan of Chrysler and I won't buy one. :(

I bought my Caliber after my Neon was totaled (Mama, don't let your kids grow up to run stop signs) due to the family discount I received from my uncle who worked for a Dodge dealer. It took me awhile to get used to it, and I would love for the rear hatch to be bigger, but I do like my little car. On the rare occasions I have to drive one of the 'rent's cars, I feel like I'm sitting in a hole while driving.

[Sean Malone]

I bought my Caliber after my Neon was totaled (Mama, don't let your kids grow up to run stop signs) due to the family discount I received from my uncle who worked for a Dodge dealer. It took me awhile to get used to it, and I would love for the rear hatch to be bigger, but I do like my little car. On the rare occasions I have to drive one of the 'rent's cars, I feel like I'm sitting in a hole while driving.

We have a Dodge pickup to tow our boat and a Chrysler minivan for trips with the dog and we like them well enough, but I don't kid myself thinking that a Toyota truck and van isn't more powerful, more fuel efficient, more refined, has higher resale value etc.

The Caliber is a solid little crossover with some very slick gadgets that many probably don't even know about (fold down speakers in the hatch for tail gating, heated/cooled cup holders, refrigerated glove box that hold a six pack, multi-mp3 player ports etc. You typically get more room and more features than the import counterparts but you are giving up resale value, some build quality etc. Seriously, any car from any company made in the past 10 years will easily go 100K with little repair so for most it comes down to style, needs and driving feel.
If Chrysler made a car that could go toe to toe with my current lease (G35 Coupe) I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[extramundane]

If an American company built a Subaru Outback I'd buy it.
They don't even come close.

What kills me is that the only wagon of any sort you can get from an American manufacturer today is a Cadillac!

$^%&$#$ crossovers. :yuck:

[Sean Malone]

What kills me is that the only wagon of any sort you can get from an American manufacturer today is a Cadillac!

$^%&$#$ crossovers. :yuck:

Magnum? Oh and that new Ford hearse thingy.

[extramundane]

Magnum? Oh and that new Ford hearse thingy.

They killed the Magnum a year or so ago, though I guess there's probably some still on dealer lots.

Ford's got some crossovers, but nothing that's a true wagon. It really is a dead zone between sedan and mid-sized crossover in this country. :(

[jcollins28]

They killed the Magnum a year or so ago, though I guess there's probably some still on dealer lots.

Ford's got some crossovers, but nothing that's a true wagon. It really is a dead zone between sedan and mid-sized crossover in this country. :(

http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/09/audi_RS6_478.jpg
This is a WAGON. Of course we will never get this over here...

[chop456]

The Malibu would make a great wagon. I'd buy one.

I like the Traverse, too, though it's admittedly not in the same class. I'd like either one of them a lot more with a 5-cyl. common rail diesel.

Buying a car tomorrow would be a choice between a Mazda5 and a Traverse. The huge difference between the two underscores the lack of automotive choice we suffer from.

What I'd really like is a VW Touran or a Ford S-Max. :rolleyes:



Looks like a nice day today, Missy. Get out there and make with the test drive reports. :D

[Andrew Longman]

I don't know what Chrysler's after besides just grabbing onto anything that floats.

That's pretty much it.

Chrysler's central problem is they have no competitive advantage.

They took a lead 20+ years ago with minivans and let others kick their butt.

They bought AMC mostly to get 4WD technology but all sorts of companies now do way lighter and better AWD.

Jeep is a strong brand with some loyalty, but few people buy Chrysler products (except to a degree trucks) because "they've always done it and my daddy did too"

They got pretty good about supply chain and cost management in the early 90s (part of the reason DC bought them so they could tap and learn from it). However, they took it to the extent that they financially stressed their suppliers and in their quest to take another penny out of a part that even when they came up with a cool design it was made so cheaply it fell apart. You can't count the stories of week old glove compartment doors falling off, year old fuel pumps failing/leaking, and new transmissions repeatedly going into limp mode. What they saved in supply chain cost got eaten up in warranty claims and lost (for life) customers

FIAT is buying into Chrysler to get NA capacity cheap and quick. IMO Chrysler will continue to make a reduced Jeep and Truck lineup, minivans and maybe the 300 since it is doing well. They will drop the image they've been cultivating the last 8-9 years of big powerful American muscle and move to small fuel efficient cars. I don't see them simply making current versions of FIAT here, but rather something styled to American tastes with a World feel. Think Ford Focus. (at least that's what I would do. There is not a lot of love for Italian cars among most Americans and they are not known for quality. That brand will only take them so far)

[Tifosi24]

I bought my Caliber after my Neon was totaled (Mama, don't let your kids grow up to run stop signs) due to the family discount I received from my uncle who worked for a Dodge dealer. It took me awhile to get used to it, and I would love for the rear hatch to be bigger, but I do like my little car. On the rare occasions I have to drive one of the 'rent's cars, I feel like I'm sitting in a hole while driving.

My wife and I bought a Jeep Patriot (identical to the Caliber) close to two years ago. I have been impressed with our car so far. The build quality isn't the best, but my wife has always wanted an SUV. I can't complain with a car that gets 23-25mpg in town, being driven kind of hard, and close to 29 on the highway. The CVT takes some getting use to, but I now am a big fan. I personally wish it got slightly better mileage, but that isn't possible because of the weight. I guy who use to ride my bus, his brother was a top design engineer on the Caliber/Compass/Patriot project and the guy on the bus would always say how his brother hated how many compromises they needed to make. Weight was the main gripe. The other was that they don't have a diesel in the states. Chrysler tested a diesel, that got 40+ mpg, but of course Americans won't buy a diesel :shakehead.

[TippyGomez]

4.8

[dando]

That's pretty much it.

Chrysler's central problem is they have no competitive advantage.

They took a lead 20+ years ago with minivans and let others kick their butt.

They bought AMC mostly to get 4WD technology but all sorts of companies now do way lighter and better AWD.

Jeep is a strong brand with some loyalty, but few people buy Chrysler products (except to a degree trucks) because "they've always done it and my daddy did too"

They got pretty good about supply chain and cost management in the early 90s (part of the reason DC bought them so they could tap and learn from it). However, they took it to the extent that they financially stressed their suppliers and in their quest to take another penny out of a part that even when they came up with a cool design it was made so cheaply it fell apart. You can't count the stories of week old glove compartment doors falling off, year old fuel pumps failing/leaking, and new transmissions repeatedly going into limp mode. What they saved in supply chain cost got eaten up in warranty claims and lost (for life) customers

FIAT is buying into Chrysler to get NA capacity cheap and quick. IMO Chrysler will continue to make a reduced Jeep and Truck lineup, minivans and maybe the 300 since it is doing well. They will drop the image they've been cultivating the last 8-9 years of big powerful American muscle and move to small fuel efficient cars. I don't see them simply making current versions of FIAT here, but rather something styled to American tastes with a World feel. Think Ford Focus. (at least that's what I would do. There is not a lot of love for Italian cars among most Americans and they are not known for quality. That brand will only take them so far)

Oy. We had two Grand Cherokees over the past ~10 years. The first one was just after the redesign circa '96 and the second ~'00. The first one was a decent car and had few if any problems, so we re-upped and got a pimped out limited the second time around. What a mistake. That POS was rife with problems throughout the four years we had it. I won't go into the nasty details, but suffice it to say that by the time we dumped it back on the dealer there were ~$3K worth of fixes needed to get it up to snuff (and it was out of warranty to boot). It almost qualified for the lemon law...if we had bought it, I would have pursued further action through a lawyer. :irked:

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

They killed the Magnum a year or so ago, though I guess there's probably some still on dealer lots.

Ford's got some crossovers, but nothing that's a true wagon. It really is a dead zone between sedan and mid-sized crossover in this country. :(

And the result is we have Subaru AWD wagons at every other house on our block. The ones that don't have a Subaru have a VW, Audi or BMW wagon. Outdoor recreation is king around here and gardening is huge as well.

Fuji has been evolving their Subaru wagons since the late 70's and they are going to be very tough to beat.

oc

[stroker]

For once I was ahead of the curve...

http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9275&highlight=FIAT&page=14

[extramundane]

And the result is we have Subaru AWD wagons at every other house on our block. The ones that don't have a Subaru have a VW, Audi or BMW wagon. Outdoor recreation is king around here and gardening is huge as well.

Fuji has been evolving their Subaru wagons since the late 70's and they are going to be very tough to beat.

oc

Agreed. The Missus' Outback has been great, but while its replacement will likely be new(er) one, it would be nice to have a few other options to at least test out. Even VAG and Subaru themselves are cutting their US-market wagon offerings. :irked:

[oddlycalm]

it would be nice to have a few other options to at least test out.
Absolutely, especially since Subaru seems to have swallowed the ugly pill for the moment. You're right, there are going to be fewer rather than more to choose from in the immediate future.

oc