View Full Version : any news on Massa?
Any update on his condition? My innerweb is being flaky.
(hit in the helmet at speed by a coil spring - seems "ok".)
has a cut on head, no idea how severe, had to be sedated before being airlifted from the track as he was very agitated
I didn't realize there was a race this weekend. Did this happen in qualifying?
yes, in the final session
he's in surgery
http://i28.tinypic.com/25gutli.jpg
Sean Malone
07-25-09, 12:43 PM
The scary thing with head injuries is that they can worsen as the swelling increases. Keeping my fingers crossed that he is truly OK.
Yeah, it happened during quals. A spring came off Rubins car and hit Massa right on the head, probably knocking him out for a few seconds...then he slammed straight into the tire barrier and it looked like he hit his head again on the steering wheel. It will be interesting to see if his feet/ankles/legs are alright too. It was a high force impact.
yes, in the final session
he's in surgery
http://i28.tinypic.com/25gutli.jpg
Ouch! Damn, that left a mark. :(
-Kevin
The Doctor
07-25-09, 12:48 PM
"Skull damage" to the bone (which i presume means skull fracture) and a concussion. Surgery forthcoming.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77276
Sean Malone
07-25-09, 12:48 PM
yes, in the final session
he's in surgery
Have they said for what? Surgery to stitch a laceration, relieve swelling of the brain or lower extremity repair or all of the above?
Hang in there kid! We're pulling for ya.
devilmaster
07-25-09, 12:55 PM
*warning*
Accident Video.... with repeated slow motion shots of the spring
73AMtoeZyog
It makes me a bit nervous when something like this happens two weeks in a row.
tweet.
Felipe Massa has undergone successful surgery at the AEK hospital and will remain under observation in intensive care. More news tomorrow2 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/NobleF1/statuses/2839968838
Good luck, get well.
I hope he recovers nicely and this isn't career ending. My thoughts are with him today.
This springs weighed 1.7 lbs. At that speed this could have easily killed him. It's scarry to think what could happen if he the helmets ratings weren't improved greatly these last few years. The F1 helmets are required to be Carbon Fiber now.
Methanolandbrats
07-25-09, 01:59 PM
:eek: Helmet tech is amazing....good thing it was'nt a direct hit on the visor.
oddlycalm
07-25-09, 02:41 PM
My hope is that Massa has a full and speedy recovery. Given all the places that spring might have landed this was incredible bad luck. :(
oc
scary
Was DaMatta's helmet carbon fiber? He survived, but the recovery process was long and slow.
Get well soon, Massa.
They've been running a replay on Speed. The announcers had no clue about what had even happened.
Reality check in that this is one of those incidents that he will be lucky to survive. Closed head injuries are particularly nasty - though this is nearly an open head injury. Our thoughts are with him and his family.
Second thought - those track workers seemed to keep their distance a bit after that shunt. Seeing that photo, thoughts of Senna had to be in their mind.
Sean Malone
07-25-09, 03:29 PM
Reality check in that this is one of those incidents that he will be lucky to survive. Closed head injuries are particularly nasty - though this is nearly an open head injury. Our thoughts are with him and his family.
Second thought - those track workers seemed to keep their distance a bit after that shunt. Seeing that photo, thoughts of Senna had to be in their mind.
My first thought also. Plus, I think the engine was still full blast on which would make even the bravest hesitate.
tweet.
Felipe Massa has undergone successful surgery at the AEK hospital and will remain under observation in intensive care. More news tomorrow2 minutes ago from web
http://twitter.com/NobleF1/statuses/2839968838
Good luck, get well.
E$PN's crawl just stated "'life-threatening' condition" after surgery. Of course, any time your in ICU could be construed as life threatening. Good speed, Felipe. :(
EDIT: Update. Crap.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/f1/news/story?id=4355374
BUDAPEST, Hungary -- Hospital officials said Formula One driver Felipe Massa is in "life-threatening" condition after undergoing surgery for a fractured skull from a high-speed crash at Hungarian Grand Prix qualifying.
Officials at the AEK military hospital said Saturday that Massa will be kept sedated on a respirator in an intensive care unit.
Medical director Peter Bazso said at a news conference that "Massa's condition is serious, life-threatening but stable."
-Kevin
E$PN's crawl just stated "'life-threatening' condition" after surgery. Of course, any time your in ICU could be construed as life threatening. Good speed, Felipe. :(
EDIT: Update. Crap.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/racing/f1/news/story?id=4355374
-Kevin
from the same link, (eta, an update from dando's post)
The AEK military hospital said Saturday the 28-year-old Brazilian was in "satisfactory condition" after emergency surgery. The hospital said in a statement the Ferrari driver would be kept in intensive care overnight.
hope so.
There was no way it couldn't be life threatening. They still have to worry about swelling of the brain. Is he in an induced coma?
stroker
07-25-09, 05:30 PM
Naturally, the F1 website says he's "okay".
:shakehead
:( C'mon Felipe...
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/184/candle100.jpg
edit: article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/ferrari/5908843/Hungarian-Grand-Prix-Drivers-call-for-safety-review-after-Felipe-Massa-crash-in-Hungary.html) says he was able to apply the brakes before the wall.
FCYTravis
07-25-09, 05:39 PM
...
FCYTravis
07-25-09, 05:41 PM
This really sounds like a total freak occurrence - I've never heard of a spring just falling off a car before, particularly on a modern inboard-shock open-wheel car where the damper/spring units are tucked up inside the bodywork.
Short of closing off the cockpit, I'm not sure what more can be done to prevent this kind of accident :/
Hoping the best for Felipe :(
devilmaster
07-25-09, 06:07 PM
edit: article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/ferrari/5908843/Hungarian-Grand-Prix-Drivers-call-for-safety-review-after-Felipe-Massa-crash-in-Hungary.html) says he was able to apply the brakes before the wall.
The video shows that when hit by the spring, both brakes and gas were fully applied....
This is a picture of the heave spring, like the one that hit Massa. http://i44.tinypic.com/256vdhy.jpg
How in the hell did that come off of Barrichello's car?
gpflepsen
07-25-09, 07:27 PM
According to this BBC report, it sounds like he suffered a basal skull fracture too. If so, we are lucky he is here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8168807.stm
"During the course of his examination they established that he suffered a serious, life-threatening injuries including loss of consciousness and a fracture of the forehead on the left side and a fracture on the base of the skull."
and a fracture on the base of the skull."
wonder if the Hans device was damaged in the initial spring impact and failed at the wall impact.
According to this BBC report, it sounds like he suffered a basal skull fracture too. If so, we are lucky he is here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8168807.stm
"During the course of his examination they established that he suffered a serious, life-threatening injuries including loss of consciousness and a fracture of the forehead on the left side and a fracture on the base of the skull."
I believe (and hope!) that a fracture on the base of the skull is different than a basal skull fracture.
I believe (and hope!) that a fracture on the base of the skull is different than a basal skull fracture.
I think they are the same as in the location being at the base (basal or basilar) of the skull. Theoretically, any fracture in the base of the skull would be basal. Basal also includes the bones around the ears, eyes, and spine.
http://neurosurgery.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=221
They even note that most basal skull fractures do not require treatment.
The term as we've come to know it :( , has more to do with the spinal and soft tissue damage that may also occur.
I think they are the same as in the location being at the base (basal or basilar) of the skull. Theoretically, any fracture in the base of the skull would be basal. Basal also includes the bones around the ears, eyes, and spine.
http://neurosurgery.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=221
They even note that most basal skull fractures do not require treatment.
The term as we've come to know it :( , has more to do with the spinal and soft tissue damage that may also occur.
The last sentence helps explain my confusion.
ilferrari
07-25-09, 09:53 PM
I wonder if he suffered his basal skull fracture on contact with the errant object, rather than the wall, because of the downward/twisting force on his head. The HANS device is designed to restrict his head movement in standard frontal/lateral impacts like the one he had with the tire wall, but afaik does not restrict vertical travel of the head.
The fracture on the base of the skull is scarry. What the &^*%? was that due to the impact with the wall? Isn't the Hans designed to prevent these?
cameraman
07-25-09, 10:20 PM
Basal skull fracture is a broad term. The impact with the spring could have fractured his skull below his eye, that would be considered a basal fracture.
I believe the life threatening issues related to basal skull fractures were the rupture of arteries (a branch of the carotid?) due to a sudden stop. I don't think the skull fracture itself was the cause of death but instantly bleeding out.
stroker
07-25-09, 10:56 PM
I believe the life threatening issues related to basal skull fractures were the rupture of arteries (a branch of the carotid?) due to a sudden stop. I don't think the skull fracture itself was the cause of death but instantly bleeding out.
Cause of DEATH?
Cause of DEATH?
Earnhardt
Or maybe not.
Who died?
I believe SteveH means in past racing accidents, not this one. I just checked and found no recent news (as it is still very early morning in Budapest).
Sorry, I was referring to those in the past. Pre-HANS era, specifically Gonzalo Rodriquez.
Sean Malone
07-26-09, 12:35 AM
Massa has been in my thoughts all day and I've been checking every hour for an update. I know they've reported he's stable, but getting past the first 24 hours is the point where I'll stop worrying. Hoping for good news in the AM.
Massa has been in my thoughts all day and I've been checking every hour for an update. I know they've reported he's stable, but getting past the first 24 hours is the point where I'll stop worrying. Hoping for good news in the AM.
I think he'll be alright. The fact that he was awake & talking makes me believe that he'll be fine. It's still scarry, but it would be a lot worse if he never regained conciousness.
some additional news here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1202114/The-moment-F1-driver-Felipe-Massa-knocked-unconscious-flying-debris-Grand-Prix-qualifier.html;jsessionid=8158A25956AC813E5E000DDE 515C6FF2)
FCYTravis
07-26-09, 02:04 AM
The other issue with the basal skull fracture from sudden deceleration is that it often injures/severs the brain/spinal cord connection.
From what we can gather independently of Ferrari, Massa has suffered from significant cerebral contusions, which in effect means bruising of the brain tissue.
Source (http://joesaward.wordpress.com/)
Ted
This really sounds like a total freak occurrence - I've never heard of a spring just falling off a car before, particularly on a modern inboard-shock open-wheel car where the damper/spring units are tucked up inside the bodywork.
Short of closing off the cockpit, I'm not sure what more can be done to prevent this kind of accident :/
Hoping the best for Felipe :(
Is anyone here against the idea of closing off the cockpit or at least having it be an option for some teams who choose to do so?
opinionated ow
07-26-09, 01:05 PM
Is anyone here against the idea of closing off the cockpit or at least having it be an option for some teams who choose to do so?
Yes, against it completely. It was a freak accident. You don't redesign the bicycle every time a Tour de France rider falls off...
FCYTravis
07-26-09, 01:27 PM
Yes, I'm against it as well. Part of what makes an open-wheel car what it is, is the open cockpit.
devilmaster
07-26-09, 03:23 PM
I'm against closing up the cockpit as well....
knee-jerk reactions to every incident doesn't make safety better....
What happens the next time a major fire breaks out on a car and the cockpit lid is damaged and the driver can't get out? The one thing that might have saved massa now kills someone else.
Look at how to ensure the small bits don't just break or fall off the car....
EDwardo
07-26-09, 05:06 PM
This from f1racing.net this afternoon:
Placed into the induced coma on Sunday morning after his CT scan, Massa will remain in the state for 48 hours before being woken again on Tuesday morning.
I think he'll be alright. The fact that he was awake & talking makes me believe that he'll be fine. It's still scarry, but it would be a lot worse if he never regained conciousness.
Mark Donohue was walking around after his fatal crash.
Denise Richardson was walking around after her fatal ski accident.
Head injuries are very complicated. Just because you are awake and talking means nothing. It appears had they not treated Massa, he would be dead, so being awake and talking means nothing.
The latest reports on his condition do sound positive, but by no means is he out of the wood. I'm still crossing my fingers.
FIA medical delegate and F1's travelling doctor Gary Hartstein, meanwhile, told Italy's La Gazzetta dello Sport when asked about Massa that "weeks, if not months, must go by before we know for sure how he is recovering".
http://http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090726223112.shtml
Ted
devilmaster
07-27-09, 07:50 AM
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090726223112.shtml
Napoleon
07-27-09, 08:25 AM
How in the hell did that come off of Barrichello's car?
Having owned a race car and been around a wide variety of them owned by friends and acquaintances in paddocks for something like 15 years I would be willing to bet that it did not "come off" the car. It would be nearly physically impossible for that to happen since the spring is always captured by some other part (ie, a rod runs up the center so even if it slips of its mounts it can not go anywhere) and/or the loss of the part would cause an instant failure in the car it came off of. So if neither of those happened it almost certainly did not come of the car. Plus those springs are under such tremendous pressure the only way I could see one coming off if there was some other catastrophic failure in the car or it got run into a wall or something (and hard).
Springs simply do not fall off.
What I think did happen, and I have seen this over the years with various parts, is that someone was working on the car, swapped out the spring and in the process of it set the spring being removed down temporally somewhere in the car while putting the new spring in the car, then forgot to remove it. It would be like when you hear of surgery where the surgeon leaves a sponge or hemostat in someone. Over the years I have been out on track and seen wrenches or a bunch of spark plugs on track as I took laps (my brother has a great swivel head ratchet we found on track during a track walk after the last session).
Denise Richardson was walking around after her fatal ski accident.
I think that was Natasha, not Denise, the Redgrave family member and wife of Liam Neeson (for some reason I always had a thing for her).
Rogue Leader
07-27-09, 09:04 AM
Having owned a race car and been around a wide variety of them owned by friends and acquaintances in paddocks for something like 15 years I would be willing to bet that it did not "come off" the car. It would be nearly physically impossible for that to happen since the spring is always captured by some other part (ie, a rod runs up the center so even if it slips of its mounts it can not go anywhere) and/or the loss of the part would cause an instant failure in the car it came off of. So if neither of those happened it almost certainly did not come of the car. Plus those springs are under such tremendous pressure the only way I could see one coming off if there was some other catastrophic failure in the car or it got run into a wall or something (and hard).
Springs simply do not fall off.
What I think did happen, and I have seen this over the years with various parts, is that someone was working on the car, swapped out the spring and in the process of it set the spring being removed down temporally somewhere in the car while putting the new spring in the car, then forgot to remove it. It would be like when you hear of surgery where the surgeon leaves a sponge or hemostat in someone. Over the years I have been out on track and seen wrenches or a bunch of spark plugs on track as I took laps (my brother has a great swivel head ratchet we found on track during a track walk after the last session).
If you watched the SPEED coverage they discussed the suspension design as well as the reports from Barichello that the suspension in fact DID collapse back there. They said that there are 2 springs one for light turns and a stiffer one for heavy turns to keep the suspension from scraping the ground. This was that second spring that was ejected from the car.
cameraman
07-27-09, 09:18 AM
Having owned a race car and been around a wide variety of them owned by friends and acquaintances in paddocks for something like 15 years I would be willing to bet that it did not "come off" the car.
Yes it did.
What came off Rubens Barrichello’s car?
"It was a spring. It came off the back of Rubens’ car and it hit Felipe. It was the third damper spring. We had a problem at the back and we’re still investigating. We haven’t had the piece back from the FIA yet. Once we get it back we can begin to understand what occurred and draw some conclusions."
How heavy a component is it?
"It would be between 700g and 1kg. I believe it is made of steel. The damper was still there, only the spring was gone; the cup had come off and the spring had escaped."
Did Ruben’s realise something had broken?
"Yes. He reported on the radio immediately; obviously without the spring the car sits down so he felt that straight away."
Felipe was quite a long way behind Rubens on the track. How could he have been hit be debris?
"Rubens was four seconds ahead of Felipe. The spring must have been bouncing around on the track. I don’t know the details but it is surprising with him being so far back. It’s a freakish thing that happened."
Napoleon
07-27-09, 09:21 AM
If you watched the SPEED coverage they discussed the suspension design as well as the reports from Barichello that the suspension in fact DID collapse back there. They said that there are 2 springs one for light turns and a stiffer one for heavy turns to keep the suspension from scraping the ground. This was that second spring that was ejected from the car.
I didn't see anything about this on TV, I just assumed from the question that no explanation was given or that the coverage did not show Barichello dead in the water (all I saw were YouTube clips). Thanks for the explanation. Maybe they want to think about adding something that captures the spring.
Sean Malone
07-27-09, 09:43 AM
I didn't see anything about this on TV, I just assumed from the question that no explanation was given or that the coverage did not show Barichello dead in the water (all I saw were YouTube clips). Thanks for the explanation. Maybe they want to think about adding something that captures the spring.
I could see some simple tethers being used but I would think the odds of this happening again wouldn't be within another 100 years of auto racing. it was truly an unfortunate freak accident.
I find it interesting that, while I've never been a card carrying Massa fan, when a participant in my favorite sport is injured, it affects you on a human level. I've always looked at Massa as a real bull dog on the track and I know he'll be fighting to get back behind the wheel of his red car. I'm impatiently waiting...
Maybe they want to think about adding something that captures the spring.
Like the wheel tethers that don't work?
Look at Alonso's wheel - that could have just as easily bounded across the track and into someone.
From everything I've heard, it was a terrible freak occurrence. It needs to be investigated fully. Then look at prevention.
FWIW - I am not in favor of closing the cockpits either.
My Mom was over to see the kids yesterday and she was horrified at the replay shown during the broadcast. I spared her the photo. We talked a little about the safety measures and is it ever 100% safe.
I don't know if this fully applies - but here it what comes to mind:
A ship in harbor is safe—but that is not what ships are for.
— John A. Shedd, 'Salt from My Attic,' 1928.
Napoleon
07-27-09, 09:55 AM
I could see some simple tethers being used but I would think the odds of this happening again wouldn't be within another 100 years of auto racing. it was truly an unfortunate freak accident.
That is what I would think, but its hard to believe it could happen ever under ordinary conditions. Think of this, they can jack up the car and totally unload the suspension and not worry about springs popping out (and my guess is to get them out they would have to then use a compressor or remove a limiting device off of the suspension to let it unload more then it would other wise be allowed to do). So how does the spring come out?
Even under maximum side load on the track the suspension should not be traveling any farther then you would get when the car is on its jacks (well, maybe a few millimeters more as things bend, but not enough to make a difference since the spring sits in a seat with a lip, plus even at max travel it is bound to have some kind of tension on it).
Napoleon
07-27-09, 10:00 AM
Elmo T
Your quote about a ship in harbor being safe makes me smile because about 10 years or more ago my brother and his wife took a vacation to the east coast and when they got there a hurricane warning came in. They got to watch from Virginia Beach as the entire Atlantic Fleet set sail from Newport News (or is it Norfork?) so that it was not battered to death in port when the hurricane hit.
cameraman
07-27-09, 10:12 AM
The video of Ruben's car showed it shedding all manner of parts as that suspension failed. It wasn't just the spring that came off.
Michaelhatesfans
07-27-09, 10:36 AM
Eye damage, per Autosport. No official word as to the extent. I doubt I was the only one who considered this when that photo popped up. Regardless of the long term status on his eye, it certainly could have been worse.:(
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77379
Regardless of the long term status on his eye, it certainly could have been worse.:(
Absolutely.
I go back to my first post that day, he will be lucky to survive. While things sound positive, he is still very sick.
As Sean as saying, I hope he puts that bulldog personality to good use now and when he gets to PT.
Sean Malone
07-27-09, 11:08 AM
Absolutely.
I go back to my first post that day, he will be lucky to survive. While things sound positive, he is still very sick.
.
Yeah, I think when the entire story comes out we will probably hear of quite a touch and go first 24 hours. The doctor admitted that the surgery was to save his life. When I first read the BBC report this AM it mentioned him being out of critical and in stable, but that there was a complication that could set him back some. When I went back to copy that line it was gone. Hopefully because the complication was resolved.
With 2 skull fractures I would imagine that there was considerable swelling which, thinking back to DaMatta was the post accident life threatening danger (thus the induced coma right?).
With 2 skull fractures I would imagine that there was considerable swelling which, thinking back to DaMatta was the post accident life threatening danger (thus the induced coma right?).
Yup.
-Kevin
I can not forget my own personal darkest day as a race fan when, after heaving a huge sigh of relief at news that Mark Donahue was walking around the pits talking and only complaining of a headache, he died the next day! Just a total shock and a feeling of disbelief. Investigators determined his helmet had spun partially around on his head exposing his temple which was struck by one of the poles anchoring the catch-fencing.:( The lawsuit filed later against Goodyear (he left the course after a tire failure) had catastrophic implications for the sport. It'd be akin to Massa suing Barrichello's team for negligence, I think.
I noticed mention of safety workers acting timidly in this incident. (if true) I don't recall, was there criticism in this regard after Senna's wreck? I must add also that I really tire of reading about "freak" accidents. They are ALL accidents and must be investigated and addressed. Have you seen any pole anchored catch-fencing lately? How 'bout wide-open, head totally exposed F-1 cockpits? I would suggest not ignoring this latest accident, freakish or otherwise, either. Two times in two weeks?
Sean Malone
07-27-09, 11:47 AM
I can not forget my own personal darkest day as a race fan when, after heaving a huge sigh of relief at news that Mark Donahue was walking around the pits talking and only complaining of a headache, he died the next day! Just a total shock and a feeling of disbelief. Investigators determined his helmet had spun partially around on his head exposing his temple which was struck by one of the poles anchoring the catch-fencing.:( The lawsuit filed later against Goodyear (he left the course after a tire failure) had catastrophic implications for the sport. It'd be akin to Massa suing Barrichello's team for negligence, I think.
I noticed mention of safety workers acting timidly in this incident. (if true) I don't recall, was there criticism in this regard after Senna's wreck? I must add also that I really tire of reading about "freak" accidents. They are ALL accidents and must be investigated and addressed. Have you seen any pole anchored catch-fencing lately? How 'bout wide-open, head totally exposed F-1 cockpits? I would suggest not ignoring this latest accident, freakish or otherwise, either. Two times in two weeks?
The difference between 'freak' and 'non freak' are that in an activity like motor racing there are 'expected' accidents. One can expect that at some point a driver will miss an apex and spin off into a barrier or that a tire blows causing an accident, or that a pit crew can't secure the lug nut etc...but I'm willing to bet I'll never see a spring hit a driver in the head probably in my life time.
Senna was in the car unattended for what seemed like a life time.
Michaelhatesfans
07-27-09, 01:01 PM
Second thought - those track workers seemed to keep their distance a bit after that shunt. Seeing that photo, thoughts of Senna had to be in their mind.
I always give the track workers the benefit of the doubt. Generally speaking, the first people on the scene are usually not medial people. They're normally there to either keep the driver safe from other cars or to call in medical treatment when necessary. Certainly not the first time a corner worker has approached a car and realized that the driver's needs were above his skill set.
Like the wheel tethers that don't work?
Look at Alonso's wheel - that could have just as easily bounded across the track and into someone.
Wheel tethers can't possible work for this sort of separation. Otherwise, the wheel wouldn't be able to turn at all!
JohnHKart
07-27-09, 01:15 PM
Damn...this makes me really emotional. I just saw Massa driving at the German GP two weeks ago. I told friends history will be made Sunday as I left the track that Sat- It was- I hope that I didn't watch Massa's last race. More importantly I hope he is ok.
Napoleon
07-27-09, 01:21 PM
Wheel tethers can't possible work for this sort of separation. Otherwise, the wheel wouldn't be able to turn at all!
I think the confusion is there is no such thing as wheel tethers. There are hub/hub assembly tethers, and as long as the wheel is bolted to the hub and the hub tether does not break the wheel is not going anywhere.
Wheel tethers can't possible work for this sort of separation. Otherwise, the wheel wouldn't be able to turn at all!
I get that... ;).
Point being that there will always be some risk involved - we can't cover every possible incident. It could have been a wing, shock cover, rabbit, deer, tire, etc.
I am in the business of prevention, but we can't prevent everything.
Study it, if we can prevent it, then make it happen.
I always give the track workers the benefit of the doubt.
Agreed - it wasn't a slam by any means.
My point was that they recognized that this wasn't your normal shunt even though it wasn't obvious from TV. They were not going to jump in and start moving him around (which is a problem), they saw the injury and were waiting for medical staff.
Latest I can find ( Mon.1PM CDT) has his life out of danger, big questions about the eye and his F-1 future. Talk is already turning to his replacement with mention of Schumacher,:eek: the "test" driver...Luca?:thumbup:...Bourdais:confused: and FERNANDO!:)...what, no Juan Pablo on loan!?
cameraman
07-27-09, 03:00 PM
...what, no Juan Pablo on loan!?
Juan's butt wouldn't fit in the car.
Sean Malone
07-27-09, 03:16 PM
Latest I can find ( Mon.1PM CDT) has his life out of danger, big questions about the eye and his F-1 future. Talk is already turning to his replacement with mention of Schumacher,:eek: the "test" driver...Luca?:thumbup:...Bourdais:confused: and FERNANDO!:)...what, no Juan Pablo on loan!?
with a month to go before the next race it will be interesting to see when they actually announce. I don't think it will be anytime soon, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't Luca, although if I were Bourdais I'd be doing anything I possible could to get my butt in that red car.
cameraman
07-27-09, 03:28 PM
It is interesting to read that the neurosurgeons were watching the qualifications on tv and they were getting set up for Massa before he left the track.
Sean Malone
07-27-09, 03:39 PM
By PAUL LOGOTHETIS (AP) – 2 hours ago
BUDAPEST, Hungary — Formula One driver Felipe Massa is awake and talking to family members, making significant improvement after his high-speed crash.
The chief surgeon at AEK hospital says Massa is now breathing unassisted and moving his limbs. In addition, a drain from his skull wound was removed.
Chief surgeon Lajos Zsiros said Monday the 28-year-old Brazilian is groggy but able to adequately answer questions. He says further improvement can be expected.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZL4O74AuFCZPVu46lEpnuLXEFzQD99MTVBO0
:):thumbup:
High Sided
07-27-09, 04:08 PM
i'm sorry but is this the rated g auto racing site for *****s?
i almost died in a motorcycle racing incident and you know some days i wish i had especially when i see all these bs posts when someone gets hurt or dies.
what sets motorsports apart from the rest is the participants are willing to die every time they strap on a helmet. :irked:
Sean Malone
07-27-09, 04:36 PM
i'm sorry but is this the rated g auto racing site for *****s?
i almost died in a motorcycle racing incident and you know some days i wish i had especially when i see all these bs posts when someone gets hurt or dies.
what sets motorsports apart from the rest is the participants are willing to die every time they strap on a helmet. :irked:
I don't understand your accusation.
what sets motorsports apart from the rest is the participants are willing to die every time they strap on a helmet. :irked:
I hope I missed the sarcasm. That sounds like some of the bravado I hear from young firefighters. :rolleyes:
Sane people are not "willing to die".
There are risks, yes. We accept a certain amount of risk every day - even when we cross a busy street. But that doesn't mean I am willing to die to get to the other side. And I don't think any racer is willing to die for the sport.
I am not a fan because it is risky. I don't cheer when there is a crash :gomer: .
Nothing chaps my butt more than hearing "he died doing what he loved". BS.
I'm just leaving this one alone.:shakehead
High Sided
07-27-09, 05:07 PM
Nothing chaps my butt more than hearing "he died doing what he loved". BS.
BS? then i've guessed you've never raced competitively in motor sports. i'f you had a notion of what goes on in your head before even a practice session, the images of things seen and thoughts created in your head you'd have to be insane to strap on a helmet and block that crap out, and then add rain???
kudos to all the men, women, children who have found their unfortunate fate behind the wheel of a vehicle, you are my true hero's!
Michaelhatesfans
07-27-09, 05:30 PM
BS? then i've guessed you've never raced competitively in motor sports.
Well, I'd stack the resumes of Jackie Stewart and Alain Prost against yours any day. While they would quickly admit the risk, I doubt that either one of them would throw around the phrase "willing to die" as easily as you do.
Stewart has made it pretty clear over the years that as far as he's concerned, racers are not paid to take risks, rather they get paid to produce results. The risk is an unfortunate downside of the job that you work at all costs to avoid.
the images of things seen and thoughts created in your head you'd have to be insane to strap on a helmet and block that crap out, and then add rain???
kudos to all the men, women, children who have found their unfortunate fate behind the wheel of a vehicle, you are my true hero's!
I should have bowed out earlier. ;)
No, I haven't raced except for my Walter Mitty fantasy runs along the Delaware River :gomer:
And while I am loath to even discuss it in such terms...
...what I have done is strapped on a fire helmet, fire gear, and an air pack and run head long into burning buildings. I've zipped up a hazmat suit and entered a poisonous atmosphere to stop the leak of a deadly chemical. I've worked hand-in-hand with fellow police and medical workers on many incidents. Just today, I climbed into demolished car, stabilized the driver and held her hand while the other firefighters cut away the remaining portions of the car to get her out.
I will gladly trade my "images seen and thoughts created" for yours any day.
I hear too often from pompous firefighters about the glory of dying making a save. Morons as far as I am concerned.
Please put me in the do not want to die doing what I love category.
Also - I enjoy racing, but I'll put the military and emergency responders at the top of my hero list.
kudos to all the men, women, children who have found their unfortunate fate behind the wheel of a vehicle, you are my true hero's!
WTF are you talking about?
Is this for reals? :gomer: :laugh:
Just in case it is:
1. Senna and Greg Moore were heros before they died, and are remembered because of how they lived.
2. Expressing sympathy for an injured driver and wishing him well is never BS.
3. Drivers don't race because they are "willing to die", they do it because they enjoy it.
F1 cars have a thingamy on the dash that measures the G-force in a crash. If, after a crash, it is one colour (I'm not sure what colour)then the driver can get out of the car. If it is another colour, then the driver has to stay in the car until the medico's get there.
That's probably why the track workers were standing around doing nothing, they were waiting for the doctor.
Michaelhatesfans
07-27-09, 08:00 PM
Please put me in the do not want to die doing what I love category.
Or as my skydiving friend likes to point out when this subject comes up, "I love skydiving, but I love it when the chute opens properly. If it didn't, that would suck."
Michaelhatesfans
07-27-09, 08:02 PM
Agreed - it wasn't a slam by any means.
I didn't take it that way in your post, but it was brought up a couple more times after that and, well, us being geeks and all, I thought I'd share my thoughts...:gomer:
No, I haven't raced except for my Walter Mitty fantasy runs along the Delaware River :gomer:
You're forgetting the hot laps you've laid down @ the Indy Speedway in Tomorrowland. ;)
-Kevin
One of my best friends was killed in a "skydiving" accident three years ago wednesday.
Probably had close to 500 jumps with one bad accident, shattered ankle, broken pelvis, etc.
It had to be love of the sport, and three minutes of 'freedom' that took him back in the air.
Ironically, killed in a plane crash taking him and five or six others up.
Difference being he paid to jump, versus pro drivers being paid to take the inherent risks.
Right or wrong, there is a certain comfort saying they died doing "what the loved".
Tifosi24
07-27-09, 10:18 PM
with a month to go before the next race it will be interesting to see when they actually announce. I don't think it will be anytime soon, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't Luca, although if I were Bourdais I'd be doing anything I possible could to get my butt in that red car.
Although I would love to see Badoer, but I don't believe he has raced in 10 years and he wasn't given relief for Schumacher back in 1999. There have been rumors about Alonso for a long time going to Ferrari, so that would be a promising lead to me. I honestly don't know who they will go with, but they certainly have a long time to make a decision.
Latest I can find ( Mon.1PM CDT) has his life out of danger, big questions about the eye and his F-1 future. Talk is already turning to his replacement with mention of Schumacher,:eek: the "test" driver...Luca?:thumbup:...Bourdais:confused: and FERNANDO!:)...what, no Juan Pablo on loan!?
He is ready. (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090707/F1/907079993)
:)
The Doctor
07-27-09, 11:35 PM
He is ready. (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090707/F1/907079993)
:)
He could win in Valencia because He will just carry the car across the harbor.
FCYTravis
07-28-09, 04:37 AM
Generally speaking, the first people on the scene are usually not medial people. They're normally there to either keep the driver safe from other cars or to call in medical treatment when necessary.
Precisely.
Flaggers are trained, in the US anyway, not to move a driver unless he's in immediate danger from a more imminent hazard, such as fire or oncoming race traffic.
I'll help pull open a jammed door, but if the driver can't get out under his own power or he's unconscious, he's staying right there until the folks with the trauma training can have a look.
A good example of flaggers moving a driver is the Dale Jr. Corvette practice wreck at Sears Point - there, his car was fully engulfed and the corner workers grabbed him and dragged him to safety. C-spine precautions take a back seat when thermal injuries are involved.
Rogue Leader
07-28-09, 07:43 AM
I should have bowed out earlier. ;)
No, I haven't raced except for my Walter Mitty fantasy runs along the Delaware River :gomer:
And while I am loath to even discuss it in such terms...
...what I have done is strapped on a fire helmet, fire gear, and an air pack and run head long into burning buildings. I've zipped up a hazmat suit and entered a poisonous atmosphere to stop the leak of a deadly chemical. I've worked hand-in-hand with fellow police and medical workers on many incidents. Just today, I climbed into demolished car, stabilized the driver and held her hand while the other firefighters cut away the remaining portions of the car to get her out.
I will gladly trade my "images seen and thoughts created" for yours any day.
I hear too often from pompous firefighters about the glory of dying making a save. Morons as far as I am concerned.
Please put me in the do not want to die doing what I love category.
Also - I enjoy racing, but I'll put the military and emergency responders at the top of my hero list.
As a FF myself as well as someone who's raced cars and other things I highly agree.
There's 2 guys in the fire service heros and zeros. Hero's are all laid out at the cemetery, zeros are the rest of us. I'll be a zero any day.
Sean Malone
07-28-09, 11:39 AM
Spaniard Marc Gene
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