Atlantics At Autobahn

[NismoZ]

Newman/Wachs 1-2, Edwards, Summerton then Simona in third. Race 2 tomorrow. Nice track for these cars. Excellent for spectators (except outside parking for GA, but nice golf cart shuttle service to all viewing areas) Great for pics. Live on HD Net Sun.

[G.]

Live on HD Net Sun.
time?

[nissan gtp]

1PM ch 306 on Directv

[NismoZ]

Noon Central!:D (Miatas at 1PM, Star Mazda at 2PM, Atlantics at 3PM EDT)

[nrc]

Thanks for the heads up. HDNET keeps changing the program info so my TiVo didn't catch it automatically.

[NismoZ]

John Edwards wins again for NWR, closes to within 5 pts. of Simona who finished 2nd today with 5 races to go. Tonis Kasemets got 3rd place. Only 11 cars started, a weak field compared to many from seasons past but the top 4 or 5 look pretty good. Surprised to see Edwards best Summerton as Summerton tested way better for NWR prior to last season. I guess turning 18 has agreed with him!:)

[Easy]

Big day for Mundelein, IL. Newman Wachs (shop in Mundelein) wins and Tonis (lives in Mundelein) 3rd.

[Mike Lawler]

Only 11 cars started, a weak field compared to many from seasons past



Eleven cars not a good sign.

[Easy]

Only 11 cars started, a weak field compared to many from seasons past



Eleven cars not a good sign.

Because they neglected the fact that budgets were already out of hand when they introduced the Cosworths and .016. Most front running Atlantic budgets are about 2 times or more than what they realistically should be given exposure.

You can't justify budgets at the north end of 6 figures for 12 races with virtually no TV and some of the bogus weekends they have scheduled.

[Andrew Longman]

Because they neglected the fact that budgets were already out of hand when they introduced the Cosworths and .016. Most front running Atlantic budgets are about 2 times or more than what they realistically should be given exposure.

You can't justify budgets at the north end of 6 figures for 12 races with virtually no TV and some of the bogus weekends they have scheduled.

Sure, but when the current spec was announced, the prize money was more, the tv coverage better, the ladder to the top series clearer, and the events were tied to a (much more optimistic :gomer:) CCWS schedule. The new spec also gave greater cost certainty and a more level playing field than previously.

It wasn't a bad idea at the time. Things just didn't turn out as planned. FWIW, the current field and spec is IMO still putting on a pretty good show. Looked great at Lime Rock.

[NismoZ]

The way the winds were blowing it looked like most ChampCar owners were ready to fund and field teams but we all know how THAT turned out. Paul Newman was very big on the belief that building from the bottom up was the way to go and CC owners should step in and help build/sustain F-Atlantic. A great idea but as you say, cost prohibitive.:(

[Easy]

Sure, but when the current spec was announced, the prize money was more, the tv coverage better, the ladder to the top series clearer, and the events were tied to a (much more optimistic :gomer:) CCWS schedule. The new spec also gave greater cost certainty and a more level playing field than previously.

It wasn't a bad idea at the time. Things just didn't turn out as planned. FWIW, the current field and spec is IMO still putting on a pretty good show. Looked great at Lime Rock.

Right but once again it wasn't sustainable and as it turned out the prize wasn't as great as we were lead to believe (see Rafa Matos saga). It was justifiable as long as KK was willing to pay big purse out of his pocket and how long was that really going to last?

[NismoZ]

*

[Andrew Longman]

Right but once again it wasn't sustainable and as it turned out the prize wasn't as great as we were lead to believe (see Rafa Matos saga). It was justifiable as long as KK was willing to pay big purse out of his pocket and how long was that really going to last?

It was sustainable if the CCWS business model worked. Two thing (at least) happened that kept that from succeeding; a) TG still had the 500 and fans/sponsors were still turned off by the split and b) the economy tanked and KK, et al didn't want to spend even more money to keep it going.

I'm not saying Atlantics is sustainable today, even if attached some how to the IRL, but back then it might have worked, especially if TG had seen that CCWS going away was not going to fix his problems. A rational and more normal business man would have seen the best of both organizations and put them together then, not wait until they were both dead to pick up the pieces.

Remember when the current Atlantics spec was being put out, IPS was a mess, the IRL was losing Toyota, the Dallaras were already long in the tooth, the IRL season was soft in so many ways. Meanwhile, CC was coming up with a new spec that faced the business realities of the sport, had several premier and successful events and a half dozen decent teams.

Both were suffering though and to everyone but TG, a merger was needed. Atlantic, especially with a pretty ballsy spec made the merger even more attractive.

[Easy]

It was sustainable if the CCWS business model worked. Two thing (at least) happened that kept that from succeeding; a) TG still had the 500 and fans/sponsors were still turned off by the split and b) the economy tanked and KK, et al didn't want to spend even more money to keep it going.

I'm not saying Atlantics is sustainable today, even if attached some how to the IRL, but back then it might have worked, especially if TG had seen that CCWS going away was not going to fix his problems. A rational and more normal business man would have seen the best of both organizations and put them together then, not wait until they were both dead to pick up the pieces.

Remember when the current Atlantics spec was being put out, IPS was a mess, the IRL was losing Toyota, the Dallaras were already long in the tooth, the IRL season was soft in so many ways. Meanwhile, CC was coming up with a new spec that faced the business realities of the sport, had several premier and successful events and a half dozen decent teams.

Both were suffering though and to everyone but TG, a merger was needed. Atlantic, especially with a pretty ballsy spec made the merger even more attractive.

The series success should not be dependent on another series success or failure though. Pro Atlantic was very successful before any direct correlation with CART and during the arguable height of (CART) Indy Lights.

And did we really think KK's business model was going to work? He obviously wasn't going to fund it forever and it never seemed to get any traction. Bad pun.

I don't mean to denigrate the series. I hope it can recover and reach new heights. I just don't see how they can with budgets that are too close to 7 figures.

My thoughts..The engine should go the whole season without even a top end job but the current plants need 3-4 per year IIRC.

Make the wings aluminum and the non cockpit bodywork fiberglass and you can save some big cash. No its not as sexy but 99% of race goers will never know the difference.

Ban in season testing other than a promoter test day at 1/4 of race meetings or for a driver that has never driven a .016.

And quit with the four day race meetings. 3 days on weekends with a test day, 2 days on the rest. Hotels, rental cars and food costs get silly.

Limit tires. 1 set for qualy and the race if they aren't already. 6 tires for double race weekends if they have any.

More double race meetings. Its going to be a 12 race schedule usually so instead of 12 cross country trips cut it to 7 or 8. Or even make it 6 double headers and make sure they're all BIG events (Long Beach, Canadian GP, Nascar road races, Petit LeMans). This would be especially helpful as fuel prices continue to climb.

Be your own series, not a step brother to Indy Lights or the forgotten feeder to Indycar. Create a good product for race goers and competitors and maybe it can be a semi destination series like TA was in the past.

[NismoZ]

Man, I like all of those suggestions. We have been so quick to spend other peeps money over the years, our pie-in-the-sky wishes are almost ALWAYS unsustainable. That stand alone dead end plan for the series doesn't make a lot of sense to me however unless you go that "Super Atlantic" route, turbo the things to 450-500hp (or more) and make them faster than C-wagons on road courses. The reason we see 11 car fields isn't because KK let 'em down it's because the whole dynamic changed with mergification and "the ladder" wasn't just moved, it was taken down! I cry when I see the talent in Lights that SHOULD be in Atlantics. (IMO-and in a more perfect racing world.:D) The teams won't get sponsor $$ and not enough fans will come see 300hp Mazdas until they become the fastest openwheel road racers in America. That's the only way to make the series "sustainable"...I think.