Jimmy Vasser: "They're Not Crapwagons"

[Kate]

Did anyone see Jimmy Vasser's hymn to Tony George and his series on Dave DeSpain's Wind Tunnel last night? He made the statement "They're not crapwagons!" and was given an opportunity to qualify or retract it and chose to repeat it instead.

Obviously Mr. Vasser is enthusiastic about getting a job with Them if it is offered; he took great pains to explain that the two kinds of cars are so similar that there's no reason the two series can't merge and live happily together ... in short, he showed an amazing degree of disloyalty.

Now before you start jumping up and down screaming "IT'S MONEY! IT'S MONEY! IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!" keep in mind that Mr. Vasser is worth more than all the people who post on this board added together, and if he were to retire tomorrow, he would not miss a meal. There are times in which prostitution is your only avenue, but even prostitutes don't pretend they have made a lifestyle choice.

I am disgusted with Mr. Vasser. What do you think?

[cart7]

Me thinks Jimmy is seeing the handwriting on the wall. As OW racing continues to shrink in visibility to the public eye, so has corporate sponsorship dollars going towards OW racing as a whole. A look at the side-pods in Cart and the irl is testament to that. When the Tobacco money goes away, look out. Even ol cap'n liverspots is a little shaky about the future considering his Marlboro gravy train is about to end. I think the drivers and owners are positioning themselves in whatever series they conclude will be around in the end. They also realize that the current leadership seems content to continue to go after each other without taking the participants or fans best interests to heart.

[Railbird]

IMO Vassar is living in the real world while many on the internet forums seem to live in some fantasy "us vs them" universe. The drivers are just the most visible position in the very fluid existance of teams/crews/sponsors floating from one series to another.


You want loyalty?

Buy a dog.

[Ziggy]

I think Jimmy is still in CART? correct? I know several other drivers who jumped ship not only in this past off season, but several did the season before (2002) I also know that Vasser has had offers to drive NASCAR with backing, and he is still in the CART series.

So He was on a Lemming Shill's TV show? Seeing how I live in Corn Jerker Central, several of the drivers have been on the airwaves stateing the fact that the Crapwagons and Champcars are quite similar. Do I believe them? In a word, NO, but then again, Im not a racecar driver. I have personally spoken on this subject with drivers such as Helio Castroneves, Gil DeFerran and Juan Montoya. They all said the same thing, slow to get up to speed, lots of downforce, flat out on big tracks and tail heavy.

In closing, and this is not going to be very popular, Maybe Vasser is thinking a bit down the road. Not far mind you, like just, next season. As a staunch CART supporter and a ticket buying fan, I am having trouble seeing how there is going to be a 2004 season. If there is a season, will it be on the tracks that I traditionally attend? Most of the tracks that I go to are no longer on the schedule, St Louis, Michigan, Homestead, Nazareth. The others that I go to are in jepardy, that would be Mid Ohio and Elkhart Lake, not to mention Cleveland which appears safe at this point and may become the last wide open track CART runs in the United States (sorry to use this curse word in a post Kate, you will survive) Maybe Jimmy can't get charged up about running a big wide high horsepower car on some two bit city street track. I know I wont be going to any of them. I also wont be flying across any Pond to attend any races short of F1 at Monza or Spa.

Eight years to be up in the air about your vocation is a longtime. Jimmy Vasser has the license to say whatever he wants IMO. He has been there, and done that. Anyone who supports Dave Despain is also a bit misguided. He was Uncle Tony's chief mouthpiece in 1996....

Dont forget who your friends are

Ziggy

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Railbird
IMO Vassar is living in the real world while many on the internet forums seem to live in some fantasy "us vs them" universe. The drivers are just the most visible position in the very fluid existance of teams/crews/sponsors floating from one series to another.


You want loyalty?

Buy a dog.


Or be a Paul Tracy or N/H fan. What it boils down to is this, these pro racers are putting their butts on the line in these cars, and they don't want to squeeze into one with the thought of "people call these crapwagons". Jimmy is exercising a demon.

[Dr. Corkski]

Originally posted by Ziggy
I think Jimmy is still in CART? correct? I know several other drivers who jumped ship not only in this past off season, but several did the season before (2002) I also know that Vasser has had offers to drive NASCAR with backing, and he is still in the CART series.

So He was on a Lemming Shill's TV show? Seeing how I live in Corn Jerker Central, several of the drivers have been on the airwaves stateing the fact that the Crapwagons and Champcars are quite similar. Do I believe them? In a word, NO, but then again, Im not a racecar driver. I have personally spoken on this subject with drivers such as Helio Castroneves, Gil DeFerran and Juan Montoya. They all said the same thing, slow to get up to speed, lots of downforce, flat out on big tracks and tail heavy.

In closing, and this is not going to be very popular, Maybe Vasser is thinking a bit down the road. Not far mind you, like just, next season. As a staunch CART supporter and a ticket buying fan, I am having trouble seeing how there is going to be a 2004 season. If there is a season, will it be on the tracks that I traditionally attend? Most of the tracks that I go to are no longer on the schedule, St Louis, Michigan, Homestead, Nazareth. The others that I go to are in jepardy, that would be Mid Ohio and Elkhart Lake, not to mention Cleveland which appears safe at this point and may become the last wide open track CART runs in the United States (sorry to use this curse word in a post Kate, you will survive) Maybe Jimmy can't get charged up about running a big wide high horsepower car on some two bit city street track. I know I wont be going to any of them. I also wont be flying across any Pond to attend any races short of F1 at Monza or Spa.

Eight years to be up in the air about your vocation is a longtime. Jimmy Vasser has the license to say whatever he wants IMO. He has been there, and done that. Anyone who supports Dave Despain is also a bit misguided. He was Uncle Tony's chief mouthpiece in 1996....

Dont forget who your friends are

Ziggy :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by Kate
Did anyone see Jimmy Vasser's hymn to Tony George and his series on Dave DeSpain's Wind Tunnel last night? He made the statement "They're not crapwagons!" and was given an opportunity to qualify or retract it and chose to repeat it instead.

Obviously Mr. Vasser is enthusiastic about getting a job with Them if it is offered; he took great pains to explain that the two kinds of cars are so similar that there's no reason the two series can't merge and live happily together ... in short, he showed an amazing degree of disloyalty.

Now before you start jumping up and down screaming "IT'S MONEY! IT'S MONEY! IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!" keep in mind that Mr. Vasser is worth more than all the people who post on this board added together, and if he were to retire tomorrow, he would not miss a meal. There are times in which prostitution is your only avenue, but even prostitutes don't pretend they have made a lifestyle choice.

I am disgusted with Mr. Vasser. What do you think?

How could you be disgusted with Vasser? Look at his sidepods, do you see any sponsorship on that car? Is there even the slightest chance of sponsorship coming to that car in the next year or so? Obviously his future is Champ Cars is very questionable, so why he should close his mind to another form of racing is beyond my understanding. Then again, why I'm even bothering to post this when I know you'll never respond to anyone criticizing you is beyond my understanding as well.

[Hot Rod Otis]

Originally posted by Kate
Did anyone see Jimmy Vasser's hymn to Tony George and his series on Dave DeSpain's Wind Tunnel last night? He made the statement "They're not crapwagons!" and was given an opportunity to qualify or retract it and chose to repeat it instead.................................I am disgusted with Mr. Vasser. What do you think?

What do I think??

I think you're full of !#@*.

How the hell was what Jimmy said last nite a "hymm" to Tony & the IRL? Was it because he didn't use internet message board buzz words like "crapwagon" or others? Because he stated that there is not room for 2 competing OPW series in America? Well he's right there isn't. The fact that he's driving the "Jimmy car" proves that out. And his comments he made about uniting the series made perfect sense and echo what Mario has said. I fail to see where thats a "hymm" to Tony. Jimmy knows a hell of a lot more than you or any of us, the real shape that C^RT is in. Driving an unsponsored car for a team that was slapped together at the last minute with C^RT money are pretty strong signs of the "health" of C^RT.

With the possible exception of PT, there has been no more loyal C^RT soldier in the drivers ranks that Jimmy Vasser. Did you bother to read Jimmy's quotes in the May '03 RACER?

"I still had a desire to drive a Champcar, and I didn't want to be a deserter of CART".

But since he didnt call Tony "idiotgrandson" and use the term "crapwagon" on TV he's a "prostitute" and he's dissapointed you?
:mad: :mad: What a crock of *****.

[FRANKY]

Originally posted by Ziggy
I think Jimmy is still in CART? correct? I know several other drivers who jumped ship not only in this past off season, but several did the season before (2002) I also know that Vasser has had offers to drive NASCAR with backing, and he is still in the CART series.

So He was on a Lemming Shill's TV show? Seeing how I live in Corn Jerker Central, several of the drivers have been on the airwaves stateing the fact that the Crapwagons and Champcars are quite similar. Do I believe them? In a word, NO, but then again, Im not a racecar driver. I have personally spoken on this subject with drivers such as Helio Castroneves, Gil DeFerran and Juan Montoya. They all said the same thing, slow to get up to speed, lots of downforce, flat out on big tracks and tail heavy.

In closing, and this is not going to be very popular, Maybe Vasser is thinking a bit down the road. Not far mind you, like just, next season. As a staunch CART supporter and a ticket buying fan, I am having trouble seeing how there is going to be a 2004 season. If there is a season, will it be on the tracks that I traditionally attend? Most of the tracks that I go to are no longer on the schedule, St Louis, Michigan, Homestead, Nazareth. The others that I go to are in jepardy, that would be Mid Ohio and Elkhart Lake, not to mention Cleveland which appears safe at this point and may become the last wide open track CART runs in the United States (sorry to use this curse word in a post Kate, you will survive) Maybe Jimmy can't get charged up about running a big wide high horsepower car on some two bit city street track. I know I wont be going to any of them. I also wont be flying across any Pond to attend any races short of F1 at Monza or Spa.

Eight years to be up in the air about your vocation is a longtime. Jimmy Vasser has the license to say whatever he wants IMO. He has been there, and done that. Anyone who supports Dave Despain is also a bit misguided. He was Uncle Tony's chief mouthpiece in 1996....

Dont forget who your friends are

Ziggy

I think you are off base on Dave. I never have felt that he was lemming material, his Paul Tracy interviews were spot on, and he didn't shy away from using the term "crapwagon" which a true lemming would have choked on.

Vasser is heading to Busch and has no reason to speak the party line. I was glad to see calls he eceived from the Carolinas were positive.

I too am having trouble seeing a 2004 season, but Jimmy is a stand up guy and ass kissing wasn't what I read from his comments.

[BigIrlFan]

JIMmy know what hees takin bout cause hees done it an you aint. ZIigy you is a bitter CARt strret race looser hahahahaha

[nrc]

Vasser was dead on in his interview. What did he say about the IRL that you can seriously argue with? To my recollection he said just three positive things: They've got some good venues, they've got Indy and the cars aren't crapwagons. For that, you want to string the man up?

Granted, they still look like crap(wagons) to me, but realistically, anyone who thinks that Toyota and Honda's money haven't elevated them out of the ****box status of a couple of years ago just isn't being realistic.

Vasser is being realistic. If you weigh his comments about the IRL vs. CART it seemed to me that he believes that CART was more on the right track. The mix of venues is what most fans want and (ironically) CART has found a way to put a hard cap on costs.

Jimmy understands that their needs to be one series for the good of open wheel racing, but he also understands that having that happen by one side killing off the other is only going to drive off fans, not bring them back together.

As for Despain, I think he's been very fair on Wind Tunnel. He's asked tough but fair questions of people from both sides. It's fair to take him to task for being naive enough to believe in Tony George's supposed vision early on in the split, but he's admitted that was a mistake on the show - something no lemming shill would ever do.

[rabbit]

Originally posted by Hot Rod Otis
What do I think??

I think you're full of !#@*.

.
.
.
.
.
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But since he didnt call Tony "idiotgrandson" and use the term "crapwagon" on TV he's a "prostitute" and he's dissapointed you?
:mad: :mad: What a crock of *****. Bingo.

[Walter Zoomie]

Every time I see "Jammy" recently, he looks like someone just offered him a crap sandwich...at Indy this May, and last night at the Mile on Speed when Indy was mentioned. He's not a happy camper...

[cart7]

originally posted by Walter Zoomie
Every time I see "Jammy" recently, he looks like someone just offered him a crap sandwich...at Indy this May, and last night at the Mile on Speed when Indy was mentioned. He's not a happy camper...
Well, he still has to man-handle a Reynard around on race weekends, his side-pods still have Jimmy on the side so I'd say he's starting to get a little worried about next year already. Fear not, I'm sure the irl would be happy to get him and he really showed good in his first BGN race.

[Hot Rod Otis]

I was wondering. Does Kellner get a royalty check everytime the term "crapwagon" gets used on TV?:)

[Ziggy]

I dont think he gets mail in the bunker!

Some of his stuff on the old SpeedNet was just too funny!

Ziggy

[oddlycalm]

Vasser has been plenty loyal to CART over the years, but he'd have to be an idiot to think that his future is with CART. Pro drivers rarely have the luxury of indulging in the kind of discretionary loyalties fans do. Max Papis will be driving ASCAR in Europe. My guess is that would not be his first choice, but at the end of the day, that's where he could get a ride. Nobody is busting Max's cookies for not condemning stock car racing.

This is a similar situation to the one musicians face. Playing for a living means that you will end up playing material you don't personally care for a large amount of the time. Those the feel like this makes them a human jukebox, and can't live with that, are better off being weekend warriors.

Vasser is a pro, and has been for a long time now.

oc

[Jag_Warrior]

Originally posted by FRANKY
I think you are off base on Dave. I never have felt that he was lemming material, his Paul Tracy interviews were spot on, and he didn't shy away from using the term "crapwagon" which a true lemming would have choked on.


That's the new & improved Dave... the Speed Channel Dave. The old Dave (the ESPN Dave) was so wrapped up in Tony's jock, he could barely breathe. I remember quite often giving my TV the finger when he'd start gushing about how the IRL was headed in the right direction, yadda, yadda, yadda.

He joined Speed Channel and I guess they sent him to detox, to get the Kool-Aid out of his system.

IMO, the closest thing to a sure bet for pro auto racers is stock car racing these days. As long as you can learn how to play bumper-tag on a big oval (and not conjugate verbs too often), you'll fit in and do jes fine. I didn't see the interview, but I'd say Jimmy's tired of all of this. He probably just wants to get along and try to enjoy the balance of his career.

[RichK]

Jeemy's a cool guy, a true racer and has shown tons of loyalty to CART. God forbid he gives an honest answer to a question!

[Warlock!]

I may be completely wrong here, but isn't ChampCar paying a significant amount of his salary this year?

If so, I'd expect him to tow the company line with a bit more gusto. His problem is that he's one of the few ChampCar guys who still has a built-in homing device that pulls him towards Indy every May. If he didn't already have an Indy gig separate from ChampCar ride this year, he woulda been snooping around Tony's garages looking for an IRL ride instead of waiting around for ChampCar's Thank-God-I'm-an-American money to drop into his lap.

I don't think he'll have a genuine smile on his face until Mikey asks him to drive at AGR next year for at least $1.5M.

So yeah... if my first statement in this post is true, I kinda agree w/ Kate. :eek:

Warlock!

[RaceGrrl]

Jimmy's CART days are numbered. He hasn't had a good season in quite a while. I agree that he should be loyal to the series that's writing his paycheck, but he's no doubt looking toward the Indy Retirement League for drive possibilities for next year. Regardless of the involvement of Honda/Toyota, the fact remains that the IRL cars are still severely injuring their drivers, and as long as they are doing that, they're crapwagons in my book.

[Hot Rod Otis]

Just what did Jimmy say on WIND TUNNEL that was so "disloyal" to C^RT? :confused: :confused: All anybody here has come up with was that he didn't bash Anton, the IRL or call 'em crapwagons.:shakehead

[sundaydriver]

Jimmy's my #1 guy that I cheer for but hey, Crapwagons are Crapwagons. :D

[Ziggy]

Jag Warrior, thanks for telling the truth on the subject of Despain. Seems like everyone became a fan after DD was hired by ESPN to cover the 1996 practice sessions. The guy is now begging the CART fans to watch his show. In 1996 He was spouting "CART gets what they deserve for putting drivers in cars the fans cant identify with. Another of his gushing tributes dealt with the short track driver getting short shifted.To put it in short, he slammed CART on a daily basis. Seem like everyone is trying to jump into this argument without realizing Mr Depain was the first guy to grab Tony's pompom's.

Ziggy

[Gurneyflap]

What 'bird said...What's the matter with you people, anyway? The guy says something that could be the salvation of open wheel racing in America and you trash the concept out of what I can only describe as a misguided loyalty to the PAST! (a failing RECENT past) How can we solve problems, build a future and create stability in the sport we love if you keep rejecting out of hand the opinions of knowledgeable individuals like Mr. Vasser? He's been there. He's done it. BOTH places. Do you think he's going to denigrate his own efforts to achieve success because "true" race fans have some sort of twisted definition of who or what is GOOD or BAD? We've been knee-jerk reacting to what people have been saying since Penske dumped his CART stock. Is there no end to the hatred, the BIGOTRY? You actually WANT things to continue on the merry path to destruction? I swear... Some of you LOVE pain. If can't HAVE pain, you CAUSE pain. If Jimmy Vasser says the differences are not insurmountable then I would LIKE to believe him. I hope that people of vision (uh oh!) and good will can see that one strong unified series would be desireable to a continuing destructive civil war. Should the Indianapolis 500 be part of it? Damn right! And Road America and Long Beach and Milwaukee, too. Now, THERE'S a past I can relate to!

[RTKar]

Originally posted by Gurneyflap
What 'bird said...What's the matter with you people, anyway? The guy says something that could be the salvation of open wheel racing in America and you trash the concept out of what I can only describe as a misguided loyalty to the PAST! (a failing RECENT past) How can we solve problems, build a future and create stability in the sport we love if you keep rejecting out of hand the opinions of knowledgeable individuals like Mr. Vasser? He's been there. He's done it. BOTH places. Do you think he's going to denigrate his own efforts to achieve success because "true" race fans have some sort of twisted definition of who or what is GOOD or BAD? We've been knee-jerk reacting to what people have been saying since Penske dumped his CART stock. Is there no end to the hatred, the BIGOTRY? You actually WANT things to continue on the merry path to destruction? I swear... Some of you LOVE pain. If can't HAVE pain, you CAUSE pain. If Jimmy Vasser says the differences are not insurmountable then I would LIKE to believe him. I hope that people of vision (uh oh!) and good will can see that one strong unified series would be desireable to a continuing destructive civil war. Should the Indianapolis 500 be part of it? Damn right! And Road America and Long Beach and Milwaukee, too. Now, THERE'S a past I can relate to!

What would a CW be like on a road or street course? Is Jimmy talking about Indy alone, regarding ovals, or the spec in general? At Indy, at speed, the cars don't look any different than back in 95, but to me they exhibit a hint of NASCAR on acceleration when the green is dropped and while trying to slipstream down the straight. They are not as quick nor as nimble looking as what I remember from 95. I can't imagine them on a road course.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Originally posted by Warlock!
I may be completely wrong here, but isn't ChampCar paying a significant amount of his salary this year?

If so, I'd expect him to tow the company line with a bit more gusto.

But isn't this what got guys like Al Jr. heavily criticized as IRL shills in the past?

[Gurneyflap]

RT...me either, but I was assuming a NEW compromise formula or "vision" is what Vasser was talking about with regard to the gap that now exists between the two series, not that CWs would be the car of choice in any unification.

[Ed_Severson]

"How can we solve problems, build a future and create stability in the sport we love if you keep rejecting out of hand the opinions of knowledgeable individuals like Mr. Vasser?"

Who says the solution to our problems involves unification with 16th and Georgetown?

I like and respect Jimmy a great deal, but he's a driver, not a businessman. His opinion on where CART's business interests should be is of little consequence to me. If that's where he thinks CART should go, fine, but I disagree, and if they follow Jimmy's implied suggestion, I sure as hell won't be going with 'em.

There is one thing, though, that I haven't figured out yet. Obviously, after eight years, there are quite a few of us who are still piss steaming mad about what happened in 1996. Why you folks continue to operate under the assumption that we're interested in unification for the so-called good of the sport, particularly when such unification utterly neuters what we love about it, is well beyond my comprehension.

[sundaydriver]

Originally posted by Ed_Severson
"How can we solve problems, build a future and create stability in the sport we love if you keep rejecting out of hand the opinions of knowledgeable individuals like Mr. Vasser?"

Who says the solution to our problems involves unification with 16th and Georgetown?

I like and respect Jimmy a great deal, but he's a driver, not a businessman. His opinion on where CART's business interests should be is of little consequence to me. If that's where he thinks CART should go, fine, but I disagree, and if they follow Jimmy's implied suggestion, I sure as hell won't be going with 'em.

There is one thing, though, that I haven't figured out yet. Obviously, after eight years, there are quite a few of us who are still piss steaming mad about what happened in 1996. Why you folks continue to operate under the assumption that we're interested in unification for the so-called good of the sport, particularly when such unification utterly neuters what we love about it, is well beyond my comprehension.


Truer words have never been spoken. :thumbup:

The only people that are left watching open wheel are the hard cores. Some have followed Boy George, some CART. For some people to suggest that we are suppose to just "get over it" and be one big happy family is hilarious.

The Idiotgrandson is resposible for this mess and if he gets control of the whole thing, I aint watchin. :mad:

[Cmndr Keen]

First lemmee say hello to all as I'm new here. In some respects, I think this thing has gotten a little overblown in that JV's just a driver and I would expect him to be diplomatic as drivers, especially stuggling ones don't know what their Nomex is gonna look like next season. Having said that, I wonder what EARL fans and series officials would think if one of their guys drove LB and had nothing but praise for the series, the Champ Car and Pook & Co. Something tells me they would be bent as well. Like it or not, we have two OW series that don't like each other very much. It's more than a good natured rivalry, it's bitter on both sides of the aisle, I tend to be sceptical of anyone who claims it ain't. I'm not saying all fans are, but enough have chosen sides in a fued we're the officials are just as contentious as the fans. While IMHO, I think JV's comments were throwaway lines, I see why CART fans who have endured this split and seen CART reduce to the struggling series it is because of the greed of one man, well, I can see why they're upset.

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by Cmndr Keen
First lemmee say hello to all as I'm new here.

You're new here, but we know ya. Welcome, Keen. :)

[Ankf00]

Originally posted by Ed_Severson
"How can we solve problems, build a future and create stability in the sport we love if you keep rejecting out of hand the opinions of knowledgeable individuals like Mr. Vasser?"

Who says the solution to our problems involves unification with 16th and Georgetown?

I like and respect Jimmy a great deal, but he's a driver, not a businessman. His opinion on where CART's business interests should be is of little consequence to me. If that's where he thinks CART should go, fine, but I disagree, and if they follow Jimmy's implied suggestion, I sure as hell won't be going with 'em.

There is one thing, though, that I haven't figured out yet. Obviously, after eight years, there are quite a few of us who are still piss steaming mad about what happened in 1996. Why you folks continue to operate under the assumption that we're interested in unification for the so-called good of the sport, particularly when such unification utterly neuters what we love about it, is well beyond my comprehension.

1. good to see ya
2. very very well said.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Ed_Severson
"How can we solve problems, build a future and create stability in the sport we love if you keep rejecting out of hand the opinions of knowledgeable individuals like Mr. Vasser?"

Who says the solution to our problems involves unification with 16th and Georgetown?



There is one thing, though, that I haven't figured out yet. Obviously, after eight years, there are quite a few of us who are still piss steaming mad about what happened in 1996. Why you folks continue to operate under the assumption that we're interested in unification for the so-called good of the sport, particularly when such unification utterly neuters what we love about it, is well beyond my comprehension.

I'm not clear on who you are directing your comment. While I agree with the gist, to say I (I being a die-hard CART fan), is continuing to maintain the status of "piss steaming mad" is an overstatement. I think most of us die-hards could care less about 16th and Georgetown. It holds more of a nostalgia rather than anger (these days).

The talk of 'unification' stems from the continued media press of CARTs imminent demise. There are still those who think it highly plausible that CART won't make it to '04. So, that being the case, logic dictates one to think of possible survival scenarios. One being a business agreement of some sort.

There are two major open wheel series in the US, in an economy that some label 'shaky'. We've seen driver crossover, team crossover, sponsor crossover etc, for the two series to come to a business agreement that helps the sport grow as a whole instead of the current one of self destruction just makes sense (which Tony and CART have never had much of).

[Mike Kellner]

"I was wondering. Does Kellner get a royalty check everytime the term "crapwagon" gets used on TV?"

No. However, there are things money can't buy. Having the guys I watch race on TV debate whether or not Formula Tony cars are CrapWagons is one of the highpoints of my life.

Just to put my two cents in, US OW is near death. A unified series has a slim chance of saving it. If said series is all ovals or operated by Tony George, success or no, I won't be watching it on TV or attending any of its races. A compromise series where we attempt to return to a rational organization of the sport and a reasonable mix of oval, road and street courses will have my support.

ó«

[pchall]

I wonder if the difference between a champcar and a crapwagon is also somewhat reflected in the different results between Mo Gugelmin crashing at 235 and Airton Dare crashing at 220 at TMS?

[RaceGrrl]

Originally posted by Mike Kellner
A unified series has a slim chance of saving it. If said series is all ovals or operated by Tony George, success or no, I won't be watching it on TV or attending any of its races. A compromise series where we attempt to return to a rational organization of the sport and a reasonable mix of oval, road and street courses will have my support.

ó«

This is exactly how I feel. I will not support anything owned or run by Tony George and I have no interest in an all oval OW series.

[Ankf00]

Originally posted by pchall
I wonder if the difference between a champcar and a crapwagon is also somewhat reflected in the different results between Mo Gugelmin crashing at 235 and Airton Dare crashing at 220 at TMS?

127 g's for big mo wasn't it? back first crash... dare vaporized his entire right side.

[Cmndr Keen]

Originally posted by Ankf00
127 g's for big mo wasn't it? back first crash... dare vaporized his entire right side.

http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/2003/IRL/Texas/DareCrash2_Ferrey.jpg

Ouch. Not good at all.

[Gurneyflap]

2C and Kellner make sense to me. Ed...I really think you project ideas not expressed. Nowhere in the quote you chose did I suggest unification as a solution, rather I was rejecting the idea that suggestions from people (like drivers such as Vasser) ought to be given at least as much consideration as those expressed here on this forum. You see no problem out there? Do you not WANT a solution to that problem? You won't get it by closing your eyes, holding your hands over your ears and shaking your head. "For the good of the sport?"...YES." "UNIFICATION for the good of the sport"? You asked, "who said that"...not me.

[Gurneyflap]

Oops...should have put "shouldn't" where I put "ought"...(oughtn't"?

[Ed_Severson]

Nor did I attribute that suggestion to you. What you asked was "how can we fix it if we don't listen to people who know what they're doing?" and you specifically mentioned Jimmy. It was his statement that the differences between CART and the IRL are not irreparable that I took exception to, and rightfully so.

You can beat the drum of tolerance all you want, and I'm open to any ideas anybody has to build up the sport of Champ Car, not open-wheel, racing, especially those that come from folks with the wherewithal and insight to make useful suggestions.

But, I don't care who you are -- if you suggest that we should in any way, shape, or form attempt a cooperative effort with the idiots that run Tony's little circus, you've just lost me.

As far as I'm concerned, and I've been saying this for several years now, the only solution necessary is for somebody at CART headquarters to start acting like we're at war, because we are, whether they like it or not. CART could have, and should have, easily ended this mess a long time ago if they had taken the fight seriously. Nobody did, we got punched in the nose a few times, and it's about damn time we started swinging back.

And, truth be told, yes, I would much rather watch Champ Car racing wither on the vine and die than see it morph into the sorry excuse for a racing series they call IndyCar. It's not like I'm desperate enough for entertainment that I couldn't find ten billion or so other things I'd rather do with my time than watch that crap.

Your results, as always, may vary. Fire away.