Chevy Volt

[oddlycalm]

I think you guys are being a bit rough on the Volt. You have to start somewhere, and at least they are taking the next step forward and beating Toyota and others to the punch.

Not that I can afford one. :gomer:
Nor can most people afford one. The business model is stoopid. The chances of getting people to buy a $40K car that is smaller and slower than they want in any meaningful number is zero.

The price needs to be $15K and the car has to have enough room and performance to be interesting. Think about the cell phone business model where the cost of the phone is subsidized by the service provider so that every man, woman and child can own one. Now apply that concept to the battery on the electric car and buy down the purchase price. Next add battery changing station so people don't need a gasoline engine to get them beyond charge range.

A better idea: Shai Agassi interview (http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11323)

Agassi is right, the US doesn't have an energy dependence, we have a petroleum dependence. He is also right about people not switching to electric in significant number as long as it make no financial sense to do so.

System components (http://www.betterplace.com/the-solution)

Cars people can get excited about that perform well

oc

http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/renault/fluence/2004_renault_fluence_11_m.jpg

[racer2c]

Nor can most people afford one. The business model is stoopid. The chances of getting people to buy a $40K car that is smaller and slower than they want in any meaningful number is zero.

The price needs to be $15K and the car has to have enough room and performance to be interesting. Think about the cell phone business model where the cost of the phone is subsidized by the service provider so that every man, woman and child can own one. Now apply that concept to the battery on the electric car and buy down the purchase price. Next add battery changing station so people don't need a gasoline engine to get them beyond charge range.

A better idea: Shai Agassi interview (http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11323)

Agassi is right, the US doesn't have an energy dependence, we have a petroleum dependence. He is also right about people not switching to electric in significant number as long as it make no financial sense to do so.

System components (http://www.betterplace.com/the-solution)

Cars people can get excited about that perform well

oc

http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/renault/fluence/2004_renault_fluence_11_m.jpg

Interesting interview. Thanks for posting. I'd correct Mr Agassi when he said "we have an addiction to oil to make our cars go, but no oil". The US has oil, we just legislate ourselves from drilling it.

I look forward to the day that a manufacturer offers a full electric vehicle and the infrastructure is in place to accommodate it. The Volt isn't it. Is it a start? Meh.

[Napoleon]

The US has oil, we just legislate ourselves from drilling it.

Not really, if we started drilling everywhere we could 24/7/365 that would only shave 1-2% off of the percentage of the oil we use from overseas.

[racer2c]

Not really, if we started drilling everywhere we could 24/7/365 that would only shave 1-2% off of the percentage of the oil we use from overseas.

The oil companies sure are fighting to get to that 1-2%. ;)

[Napoleon]

The oil companies sure are fighting to get to that 1-2%. ;)

Yes they are.

Wiki says the US uses 19,497,000 barrels of oil a day. 1% is 194,970 bbl. Today light crude is selling for about $88/bbl. Therefore that 1% represents $17,157,360 gross revenue per day and $6,262,436,400 gross revenue per year oil companies do not need to pay someone else if they develop a domestic source.

I shouldn’t have to remind you, but oil companies are the most profitable businesses around right now, so it is safe to assume that the cost of developing that gross revenue is less then the gross revenue.

[racer2c]

Yes they are.

Wiki says the US uses 19,497,000 barrels of oil a day. 1% is 194,970 bbl. Today light crude is selling for about $88/bbl. Therefore that 1% represents $17,157,360 gross revenue per day and $6,262,436,400 gross revenue per year oil companies do not need to pay someone else if they develop a domestic source.

I shouldn’t have to remind you, but oil companies are the most profitable businesses around right now, so it is safe to assume that the cost of developing that gross revenue is less then the gross revenue.

My original comment pertained to what is "potentially available" which is open to debate depending on who your constituency is or what oil company you work for. ;)

[oddlycalm]

My original comment pertained to what is "potentially available" which is open to debate depending on who your constituency is or what oil company you work for. ;)

Whatever number you put on it, our capacity to produce electricity dwarfs our capacity to produce petro products which is what Agassi is referring to. It's costing us $1 billion/day in round numbers.

Selling Chevy Volts for $40,000 with a $7500 subsidy doesn't begin to address the problem. My question is still the same; who's the buyer? Agassi right about that as well, when the market sees a good car with enough room for ~$15,000 things will change. That's how we let the market do it's work. You do that by not making the customer own the battery and by buying down the front end price as with cell phones.

Just take the $$ away from the oil weasels and we will have an era of great beer and short skirts. I promise....:gomer:

oc

[cameraman]

Don't forget that those first cell phones were the size and weight of a brick and cost a fortune. Also there was no coverage in 99.999% of the country but look at them now. These are the first attempts at getting it done, I don't expect anyone to hit it out of the park on their first at bat.

[oddlycalm]

Don't forget that those first cell phones were the size and weight of a brick and cost a fortune. Also there was no coverage in 99.999% of the country but look at them now. These are the first attempts at getting it done, I don't expect anyone to hit it out of the park on their first at bat.
Good analogy. When the big move comes it could really stretch manufacturing capacities just as it is doing currently with network capacity in cell phones. It took 25yrs to happen with cell phones and that wouldn't be a bad guess for cars.


"What operators are really suffering from is the fact that popularity of smartphones came too quickly," Lance Hiley, VP of market strategy at Cambridge Broadband Networks, told Reuters. Since the introduction of the iPhone in 2007, data usage has roughly doubled every year, straining wireless networks. With the rise of Android, that strain has only worsened.
Study: Android Users Are Data Hogs (http://www.dailytech.com/Study+Android+Users+Are+Biggest+Data+Hogs/article20353.htm)

[Methanolandbrats]

I'm 110% convinced we'll end up with multiple energy sources for personal transport. That's what all the foot dragging is about. Big oil and the car manufacturers want to find a way to corner things before they invest big dollars in one path. Diesel/biodiesel/synthetic diesel for trucking, big hauling and some personal road cars. Electrics for city types, hybrids to introduce more versatility for some, gas for oldtimer cars :D, etc.........are a number of possibilities.

[Napoleon]

I'm 110% convinced we'll end up with multiple energy sources for personal transport. That's what all the foot dragging is about. Big oil and the car manufacturers want to find a way to corner things before they invest big dollars in one path. Diesel/biodiesel/synthetic diesel for trucking, big hauling and some personal road cars. Electrics for city types, hybrids to introduce more versatility for some, gas for oldtimer cars :D, etc.........are a number of possibilities.

Egg zack ly

That is why I really don't understand some of the criticism of the Volt. It is not built for everyone or even a majority of the market, it is built for a nitch market.

[racer2c]

Egg zack ly

That is why I really don't understand some of the criticism of the Volt. It is not built for everyone or even a majority of the market, it is built for a nitch market.

What nitch? I'm guessing the same crowd who spent $40K on the first batch of Prious's (Pri'i?).
I'm a perfect candidate for an electric car being a commuter who travels 100 miles a day, from the 'burbs to into the city. The city residents want smaller, easier to maneuver and park than an intermediate sized car like the Volt, in my opinion. I could see a commuter like myself appreciating the Volt for it's thriftiness and highway speed comfort but at the $40K sticker and an support infrastructure in it's infancy...no thanks...not yet anyway. Now if like Mr calm mentioned, if the manufacture subsidized the battery using the cell phone model, it makes for an interesting option.

[dando]

Now if like Mr calm mentioned, if the manufacture subsidized the battery using the cell phone model, it makes for an interesting option.

The problem with that is there isn't a future revenue stream following the Gillette model (keep in mind that Gillette started that model by giving away razors and making profit from the blades). Once the car goes out the door, the dealer is out of the picture except for repairs and maintenance, which is not a steady revenue stream. You can't lock them into a contract for $100/mo. over two years like a cell provider (or cable/dbs co).

-Kevin

[dando]

Agassi is right, the US doesn't have an energy dependence, we have a petroleum dependence.


Correct. Far too many people are ignorant of the fact that all of the plastic crap we buy is made from petroleum. All of those little plastic bottles we snarf down our filtered water in and high fructose corn syrup drinks in.... :saywhat:

-Kevin

[racer2c]

The problem with that is there isn't a future revenue stream following the Gillette model (keep in mind that Gillette started that model by giving away razors and making profit from the blades). Once the car goes out the door, the dealer is out of the picture except for repairs and maintenance, which is not a steady revenue stream. You can't lock them into a contract for $100/mo. over two years like a cell provider (or cable/dbs co).

-Kevin

Where there's a will there's a way. ;)

[cameraman]

You can't lock them into a contract for $100/mo. over two years like a cell provider (or cable/dbs co).

Ever heard of a lease? Seems that there are tons of folk paying on a contract for the use of a car.

[Napoleon]

Volt named 2011 North American Car of the Year. (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/political-economy/2011/01/chevrolet_volt_named_car_of_th.html)

[Gnam]

2011 sales figures:

Jan - 321
Feb - 281

initial production run - 10,000 cars

Gonna be some good deals at the end of the year. :p

[dando]

2011 sales figures:

Jan - 321
Feb - 281

initial production run - 10,000 cars

Gonna be some good deals at the end of the year. :p

Here's why:

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/dale-earnhardt-jr-chevy-volt-good-produc


(CNSNews.com) – NASCAR racer Dale Earnhardt Jr. said that Chevrolet’s “Volt,” a hybrid electric car, is a “good product” but the “technology isn’t there yet really to provide the consumer with something that can go a little further [in mileage] than that and do a little bit better job with that.”

:gomer:

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

I'd rather buy a Coda than a Volt.

[devilmaster]

This continent needs to figure out how to reverse the public opinion (and lack of facilities) on diesel.

I'm sure there are people in North America who would love to save money on gas but not do it in a prius or a volt.

http://www.cube-automotive.com/30870_uploads/1523_1.jpg
XJ6 TDVI, Clarkson got 53 mpg in the Blackpool illuminations challenge, 18 and change gallon tank. He could have driven almost 1000 miles on a tank the way he was driving.

[Tifosi24]

This continent needs to figure out how to reverse the public opinion (and lack of facilities) on diesel.

I'm sure there are people in North America who would love to save money on gas but not do it in a prius or a volt.

http://www.cube-automotive.com/30870_uploads/1523_1.jpg
XJ6 TDVI, Clarkson got 53 mpg in the Blackpool illuminations challenge, 18 and change gallon tank. He could have driven almost 1000 miles on a tank the way he was driving.

Diesel really is the easiest bang for the buck. CNG is also a good option. I could never convince my parents to buy a diesel, even though things have come along ways since the Mercedes and Peugeot diesels they were selling here in the 1970s.

[devilmaster]

Chicago to New Orleans possibly on one tank.... And if diesel if currently 3.5 a gallon, we're talking Chitown to NOLA for 66 bucks. In the comfort of a Jag. Explain -that- to your average consumer and they will be probably be more impressed than the best case silly scenario numbers they came up with for the Volt.

Oh yeah, it does 0-60 in 8 seconds and a top speed of 140.

[SteveH]

If you bought one I know of a Jag tech in Ohio that could work on it.

[devilmaster]

Sadly, I just went to jaguar's global site and then compared north america to europe's site.

Jag does not offer their diesel engine in NA cars... (as I'm sure everyone already knew)

Its a chicken before the egg argument. Do you announce diesel car availability? Or announce a plan to ensure a larger diesel facilities first?

[Cam]

If you bought one I know of a Jag tech in Ohio that could work on it.

ORLY? :rofl:

[extramundane]

If you bought one I know of a Jag tech in Ohio that could work on it.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4660/brokenimage.gif

[Napoleon]

GM to announce a true all electric today:

http://detnews.com/article/20111011/AUTO01/110110438/1148/

[chop456]

GM to announce a true all electric today:

http://detnews.com/article/20111011/AUTO01/110110438/1148/





The car will be a small, battery-powered vehicle

Sounds like they've got all their ducks in a row.

[Don Quixote]

Sounds like they've got all their ducks in a row.
It's a concept for a concept at this point.

[Elmo T]

I saw a Volt over the weekend. Style-wise, it is way better than some of the more recent GM products.

[Gnam]

Audi has had just about enough of this nonsense.


Audi of America President (Johan De Nysschen) didn't bother mincing words on his opinions on electric cars and plug-in hybrids during a recent interview with MSN Autos. He went particularly hard on the Chevrolet Volt, which he called "a car for idiots."

De Nysschen also laid into full-on electric vehicles: "They're for the intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are."

:D

I wonder if he has a newsletter.

[miatanut]

Chicago to New Orleans possibly on one tank.... And if diesel if currently 3.5 a gallon, we're talking Chitown to NOLA for 66 bucks. In the comfort of a Jag. Explain -that- to your average consumer and they will be probably be more impressed than the best case silly scenario numbers they came up with for the Volt.

Oh yeah, it does 0-60 in 8 seconds and a top speed of 140.

Obviously you can have a diesel hybrid. GM has a bit of experience with that in their Electro-Motive division.

[stroker]

I wonder if he has a newsletter.

I'm thinking more like a bronze statue.

[NismoZ]

Huh, after reading what ol' Johan had to say I'm surprised many of you here haven't already "invested" in GM's version of the automotive future. Is it true while they are repairing your fire damage you get a Corvette as a loaner?

[JohnHKart]

It's a concept for a concept at this point.

Test drove it in march at one of the Chevy test drive days where they bring everything to a massive parking lot and some competing stuff too . I liked it a lot actually thought it was pretty cool . My dealer buddy Jim hated it though says it was rushed to market .