Atlantics Survive

[NismoZ]

Teams with IMSA/ALMS next year again...similar schedule, TBA. Not moving up but at least not moving out.

[patski]

I sure hope they schedule Road America this year. Last year was a bummer even thou I understand Three Rivers.

[SurfaceUnits]

and now with power to pass


Atlantic Championship to Test Cosworth Power To Pass at Road Atlanta

With an eye toward the 2010 season, all Cooper Tires Presents The Atlantic Championship Powered by Mazda teams and drivers participating in the promoter test day at Road Atlanta on Tuesday, September 22 will have the opportunity to test Cosworth Power To Pass in the day’s first session. The session will run from 9:45 to 10:15 a.m. ET.

Cosworth pioneered the technology in 2004 for use in the turbocharged, 2.65-liter V8 engines used exclusively by the Champ Car World Series. Drivers utilize Cosworth Power To Pass by pressing a button on their steering wheel, which increases the engine’s rpm and horsepower for a pre-determined amount of time.

“Looking forward, we believe the addition of Cosworth Power To Pass will bring about more overtaking opportunities during our races,” said Atlantic Championship technical director Eric Haverson. “The system worked very well on the Cosworth-powered Champ Car and really helped provide for some exciting racing. It offers the driver another tool to use during the race when trying to pass and should bring some interesting strategy into play for the teams as well.”

Cosworth has been preparing the 2.3-liter, four-cylinder Mazda MZR engines used in the Atlantic Championship since the 2006 racing season. The normally aspirated, 16-valve, fuel-injected engines currently produce up to 300 horsepower at 8,000 rpm and are capable of speeds in excess of 175 mph. The length of time one push of the Cosworth Power To Pass button will increase rpm and horsepower will correspond with the longest straightaway on the circuit. Cosworth Power To Pass will disengage as soon as the driver lifts off the throttle.

http://www.automobilsport.com/race-categories--24/race-categories--24,69061,Atlantic-Championship-to-Test-Cosworth-Power-To-Pass-at-Road-Atlanta,news.htm

[Gnam]

and now with power to pass...

Did they learn nothing? :shakehead

[pchall]

They should just supply the engines with whatever extra power they can reasonably squeeze out of them and let the drivers figure out what to do with it.

[opinionated ow]

Did they learn nothing? :shakehead

Pathetic :shakehead

Another spec series becomesven crappier

[mueber]

Glad they are back; hope to see them next season.

[Fio1]

Atlantics should use the Formula Nippon chassis made by Swift and the same Honda & Toyota motors. Or adapt the Lola F3000 chassis, like Euro F3000. Then they will be considered a higher class then Indy Lights & F.Mazda. Right now, why would any one spend 1/2 mil to do Atlantics?

[pchall]

Right now, why would any one spend 1/2 mil to do Atlantics?

I remember when the asking price for a ride in Atlantic was a cool mil at least. But then there was a worthwhile destination.

[Easy]

Even with the barren grids its still 1/2 mil to show up. Unless you can engineer yourself and have access to shock equipment at an Indycar teams shop.

[DagoFast]

Atlantics should use the Formula Nippon chassis made by Swift and the same Honda & Toyota motors. Or adapt the Lola F3000 chassis, like Euro F3000. Then they will be considered a higher class then Indy Lights & F.Mazda. Right now, why would any one spend 1/2 mil to do Atlantics?

At the risk of sounding un-a-mericun, I tend to agree. With current trends in the global business approach by manufacturers the time is right to align the US with euro classes. It lets mfgs. use a common chassis/engine across multiple series.

It already appears to work with the Touring Car series in Germany, England, Australia and other countries. It seems to work well with Superbike in multiple countries as well. Then take the best drivers/riders/crews from each national series and move them on to the respective world series like World Superbike.

Take the best of those and move them up to F1 and MotoGP, which IMO, and a perfect world, would both remain full on prototype series unfettered by stupid rules like mandated tires & engine life and limited testing.

15 years ago I'd have scoffed at the notion, but back then an "Indycar" was a thing of beauty and deserved its own place in the world. Today? It should go the way of the Dodo. Poste haste. The same applies to spec orphans like the DP01 and FA. They may not be visually offensive like a "modern" mindycar, but they still have no raison d'etre.

[opinionated ow]

At the risk of sounding un-a-mericun, I tend to agree. With current trends in the global business approach by manufacturers the time is right to align the US with euro classes. It lets mfgs. use a common chassis/engine across multiple series.

It already appears to work with the Touring Car series in Germany, England, Australia and other countries. It seems to work well with Superbike in multiple countries as well. Then take the best drivers/riders/crews from each national series and move them on to the respective world series like World Superbike.

Take the best of those and move them up to F1 and MotoGP, which IMO, and a perfect world, would both remain full on prototype series unfettered by stupid rules like mandated tires & engine life and limited testing.

15 years ago I'd have scoffed at the notion, but back then an "Indycar" was a thing of beauty and deserved its own place in the world. Today? It should go the way of the Dodo. Poste haste. The same applies to spec orphans like the DP01 and FA. They may not be visually offensive like a "modern" mindycar, but they still have no raison d'etre.

Quoted for emphasis. Atlantic should become US Formula 3 championships and the Formula 2 should be bigger F3 with 6 cylinder 3.2 engines globally imho...but tat wont happen until I take over the FIA

[Rus'L]

It already appears to work with the Touring Car series in Germany, England, Australia and other countries. It seems to work well with Superbike in multiple countries as well. Then take the best drivers/riders/crews from each national series and move them on to the respective world series like World Superbike.

Remember Formula Mondiale?

It killed the Atlantic series here in America until Vicki O'Connor came in to rescue it.

[DagoFast]

Remember Formula Mondiale?

It killed the Atlantic series here in America until Vicki O'Connor came in to rescue it.

Sure I remember the 80's. And Formula Pacific. And Toyota pumping money and new life in to the series as well. And while I would never denigrate Ms. O'Connor, her dedication or her efforts, I stand by my statement that today, FA is an orphan spec series.

If she wishes the series to again become relevant and a ladder to somewhere, then embracing F3 specs would seem the sensible thing to do.

[NismoZ]

Or Super Atlantic Formula 2 1/2 spec and make them the quickest open wheelers at the TOP of the ladder.

[cameraman]

Screw it, go full on and make the Atlantics the North American GP2 series. They'd be faster than the crapwagons at any track. I'm mean if you're gonna go spec series you may as well pick the highest.

600 hp 10K rpm v8s w/ carbon brakes. That could even make MMP interesting.

I'd also give the drivers a reason to run the series.

[NismoZ]

What I'm sayin'! Call it whatever you want but design a spec that ROCKS, not 2-4 rungs down a ladder to nowhere. See the top rung. BE the top rung. Here, anyway. That's the least I'll settle for.:) A modern day T-332, fast and cheap (by comparison)...is Haas buying EMS or not?

[mapguy]

First thing they need to do is ditch the spec chassis. That doesn't save any money, IMO it raises the cost of the chassis. I miss the British F3 battles between Reynard, Ralt, Bowman and Van Dieman (1992 only). F3k was really interesting with Reynard, Lola and Ralt competing. When they went with the spec Lola I lost all interest.

[Easy]

First thing they need to do is ditch the spec chassis. That doesn't save any money, IMO it raises the cost of the chassis. I miss the British F3 battles between Reynard, Ralt, Bowman and Van Dieman (1992 only). F3k was really interesting with Reynard, Lola and Ralt competing. When they went with the spec Lola I lost all interest.

Spot on, spec does not usually save money for competitors as the winning constructor has a captive market for bodywork, winglets and such. You could likely have a fab shop make a wing or engine cover at a better cost than Swift is going to charge you but its not allowed. Atlantic was much more affordable as an open series with SCCA Club aligned rules. You can also get bolstered grids with Club racers stepping up when the pro series comes to town. They're not all jokers either, a Club racer with track knowledge and a proven set up can give the young lions a run for their money.

[pchall]

First thing they need to do is ditch the spec chassis. That doesn't save any money, IMO it raises the cost of the chassis.

I think you're right about the costs of a spec chassis, especially when the replacement parts and engine rebuilds become a source of recurring revenues for the series.

What makes racing interesting (except to :gomer: s and stawk kar driber fans, apparently) is the variety in chassis, engine, and tire choices teams used to be able to make in formula car racing at every level. Teams used to be able to take a customer chassis and work at making it better than everybody else's. If that wasn't good enough a team with sufficient resources built their own chassis. The same thing went for engines. Even when F1 was Formula Cosworth and CART was Formula DFX we all wanted to know who was doing the rebuilding for whom. Spec cars just suck at the upper levels of the sport.

[cameraman]

All very laudable goals but the cars are now made out of carbon fiber and you can't just whip up a chassis without spending cubic dollars. How much would a GP2 chassis cost when the design/development/manufacturing costs of a car like that were spread out over a dozen rollers sold to maybe three or four teams? That is the market if 4 manufacturers are building cars for a 24 car field.

[opinionated ow]

All very laudable goals but the cars are now made out of carbon fiber and you can't just whip up a chassis without spending cubic dollars. How much would a GP2 chassis cost when the design/development/manufacturing costs of a car like that were spread out over a dozen rollers sold to maybe three or four teams? That is the market if 4 manufacturers are building cars for a 24 car field.

Hence going for F3 rules...sure Dallara make the majority of the cars but the Mygale and Lola chassis are competitive, and in its brief appearances the Ligier F3 was fast too.

[cameraman]

And F3 is a whole lot closer to Star Mazda than it is to GP2. Figure your costs on cars designed to go 320 kph.

[opinionated ow]

And F3 is a whole lot closer to Star Mazda than it is to GP2. Figure your costs on cars designed to go 320 kph.

Star Mazda sucks too-yet another crap spec series

[Methanolandbrats]

Here's what non-spec can result in http://supervee.formulavee.org/
chassis manufacturers http://supervee.formulavee.org/manufacturers/

[opinionated ow]

Here's what non-spec can result in http://supervee.formulavee.org/
chassis manufacturers http://supervee.formulavee.org/manufacturers/

or that for D-Sports Racer....
http://sports.racer.net/index1.html

[Rus'L]

Sure I remember the 80's. And Formula Pacific. And Toyota pumping money and new life in to the series as well. And while I would never denigrate Ms. O'Connor, her dedication or her efforts, I stand by my statement that today, FA is an orphan spec series.

If she wishes the series to again become relevant and a ladder to somewhere, then embracing F3 specs would seem the sensible thing to do.

Embracing the F3 specs (which is essentially what FA was in the 80s) and making it part of a "World F3 Series" are two entirely different things. The latter is what nearly killed FA back the 80s, and I subscribe would do it again this time around.

And Toyota's money came in way after Vicki saved the series from extinction, but it certainly help grow FA back to major ladder series prominence.

I lean towards those saying FA should be made into the GP2-like series for North America.

[FCYTravis]

Here's what non-spec can result in http://supervee.formulavee.org/
chassis manufacturers http://supervee.formulavee.org/manufacturers/

That was back when anyone with a tube bender, a welding setup and a bit of fab skill could put together a chassis.

As everything moved toward aluminum honeycomb and then carbon fiber, it started costing cubic dollars to afford the tools and materials and skilled labor. Can't just jig up a car in your garage, unless your garage comes with an autoclave.

Short of turning the clock back and mandating tubes, Grand-Am style, I'm not sure how you can bring back that kind of diversity.

[pchall]

In the final analysis, it should be clear that just another another spec car series won't cut it for the future (is there is any left) of top level single-seater racing in North America. If there can't be something approaching the diversity of a real formula car series there won't be the sizzle necessary to get the fans to the tracks.

If the cost of a modern CF monocoque is really that much of a killer for small series production of different designs, how about a small compromise? Mandate a common design for the chassis spine from the first bulkhead before the front suspension to the engine mounting bulkhead. Keep it really simple with a true flat bottom from F1 to the engine mount. The teams would be free to build a car around that limited only by minimum weight and the designated maximum surface area of single plane, single flap front and rear wings intended for changing aerodynamic trim rather that tremendous downforce. The teams would be free to fabricate whatever they want in house, or outsource to specialized fabricators. If the team wants to buy a complete suspension, drive train, bodywork and wings kit from any supplier that offers one, so be it.

For the engines, declare an equivalency formula for an NA engine or a turbo based on any set of stock block and heads from a vehicle produced in quantity greater than 5000 units. I'd suggest trying 4.0L NA and 2.5l turbo. Air restrictors as they are needed for road, street, short oval and speedway.

Any takers?

[miatanut]

Screw it, go full on and make the Atlantics the North American GP2 series. They'd be faster than the crapwagons at any track. I'm mean if you're gonna go spec series you may as well pick the highest.

600 hp 10K rpm v8s w/ carbon brakes. That could even make MMP interesting.

I'd also give the drivers a reason to run the series.

The AER Mazda 2.0 turbo makes over 500 HP from an engine that weighs about the same as the current Atlantic engine:
http://www.dysonracing.com/cars/engine.php

The original Cosworth DFV made around 400 HP which gradually increased to 500 HP and beyond, and gave us lots of great racing with that power level.

If Johnson would make the investment, so there would be this great road racing series of tail-happy beasts, he'd have us all in a heartbeat. They would provide better racing on a street circuit than CART did, because they are smaller, so drivers could pull off more passes in the limited available space.