View Full Version : Spa under siege
Noise + EIR + Belgian court = no Spa 2010 :shakehead:irked:
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-spas-operating-license-revoked-by-belgian-court/
Too bad real race tracks can't be put on the endagered species list. Just once I'd love to see a developer forced to explain how his project will avoid negatively impacting an existing track's delicate ecosystem.
oddlycalm
09-23-09, 07:12 PM
Too bad real race tracks can't be put on the endagered species list. Just once I'd love to see a developer forced to explain how his project will avoid negatively impacting an existing track's delicate ecosystem.
Well said. I wonder which wealthy neighbor bitched this time....? :shakehead
oc
chop456
09-23-09, 07:37 PM
You'd think they'd be accustomed to loud noises.
Methanolandbrats
09-23-09, 08:43 PM
This ******** would never have seen the light of day 20 years ago. Is support for road racing diminishing in Europe too? Or is this a matter of encroachment of McMansions near the track? Where I live our county zoning folks are idiots and so many people have moved here it's starting to suck. Many of the new folks build houses next to active farms and then they complain about "smells". Well ya think....**** you, the farm was here first.
Or the people who moved next to O'hare and complain about the jet noise. Or those who move into a nice new sub-division next to a freeway and demand the state put up a giant sound deadening wall... at MY expense! Or...ah, screw it.
oddlycalm
09-23-09, 10:13 PM
This ******** would never have seen the light of day 20 years ago. Is support for road racing diminishing in Europe too? Or is this a matter of encroachment of McMansions near the track? Where I live our county zoning folks are idiots and so many people have moved here it's starting to suck. Many of the new folks build houses next to active farms and then they complain about "smells". Well ya think....**** you, the farm was here first.
One of the reasons we went to iron clad land use planning in our state was to avoid this nonsense. The best way to keep people from bitching about a smelly dairy farm or a noisy industrial plant is to keep the developers out. Period. It's too seductive for retiring farmers and poor urban home owners that want to cash in. Even that doesn't stop them from building condo and row house development 1/4 mile away but overlooking the industrial area and bitching about the noise. The building we occupy now used to be occupied by a forging company and they got sued out of existence after Kaiser built it's new gigabuck IT center across the street and row houses went in up on the hill. The company had been their since 1914 and 60 people lost their jobs.
The property rights lobby (developers and those that want to sell to developers some day) and their out of state financial backers have succeeded at partially eroding our 35yr old law.:irked: The big winners were the timber companies that want to sell off their logged off land to developers so that every wild fire will threaten McMansions like it does in California.
Race tracks will become endangered if people don't push back hard. That's something the FIA could have been doing something about if Max had wanted to.
oc
chop456
09-24-09, 07:25 AM
The country club in the town where I grew up in had trap shooting on weekends, and had since about 1910 - predating all but a few houses in the surrounding 2-3 square miles. Enough of the neighbors got tired of the noise that they complained/sued. The courts told them to get ****ed. :laugh:
Score one for the good guys. :tony:
Sean Malone
09-24-09, 09:44 AM
Don't get me started. I was bemoaning my HOA and their antics with a few co-workers when one of them told of their interactions with their HOA; gated community...fined 3 times ($50 a pop) for having their garage door open for over an hour...fined twice ($100 a pop) for having a guests car parked in front of their house for longer than 3 hours...$2200 a year HOA dues. I asked her..."why do you subject yourself to that?" and I got the typical response "I'm safer in a gated community and it helps keep my home value up". I laughed on the inside. And people wonder why socialistic behavior is rapidly increasing. I think the majority of those type of people would be happy living under the old soviet hammer & sickle as long as they could keep their Escalades and corner Starbucks.
Back in the early 90's a group of developers bought some farm land 2 hours south of D.C. for the purpose of building an FIA approved race track. I have a picture in an old photo album of a farm silo with a really cool open wheel car logo painted on it at the site of the proposed track. The community (which lived many miles away from the track) fought the track for many years in court, finally prevailing with their case based on what they claimed was historical significance of the land. Evidently, based on a Confederate soldiers diary, a reconnaissance patrol rode through that area and a few shots were exchanged with a Union patrol. It's not an official skirmish, nor was there any other account other than the diary and the location was vague...but trot out the 'sacred battlefield' defense in northern VA and you can keep anything from getting built. I know of at least 3 other development plans (2 roads and one shopping center) that were voted down due to similar 'historical significance'.
There's a growing anti-motorsports sentiment in Europe. One relative was surprised that I want to go to a DTM/F3 event during my last visit. Seems that racing is "unecological". I did point out that neither his precious 1974 700 series BMW nor his A8 twin turbo daily driver were exactly green machines, but he failed to see the humor or the irony.
extramundane
09-24-09, 11:19 AM
Back in the early 90's a group of developers bought some farm land 2 hours south of D.C. for the purpose of building an FIA approved race track. I have a picture in an old photo album of a farm silo with a really cool open wheel car logo painted on it at the site of the proposed track. The community (which lived many miles away from the track) fought the track for many years in court, finally prevailing with their case based on what they claimed was historical significance of the land. Evidently, based on a Confederate soldiers diary, a reconnaissance patrol rode through that area and a few shots were exchanged with a Union patrol. It's not an official skirmish, nor was there any other account other than the diary and the location was vague...but trot out the 'sacred battlefield' defense in northern VA and you can keep anything from getting built. I know of at least 3 other development plans (2 roads and one shopping center) that were voted down due to similar 'historical significance'.
Stop it, man, you're gonna make me cry. Brandy Station <sniff>. :cry:
I don't doubt your account, Sean, but there are MANY examples of tragic abuses of development on actual sites of REAL historical significance. What I fail to understand are communities/residents complaining of noise occurring a few days a year in areas near railyards (Cicero/Chicago Paperclip) or railyards AND major regional airports where noise is a 24/7/365 occurrence! (the original site choice for what later became Chicagoland Speedway/Joliet) The real reason is often tied to a group or groups that simply don't want the added traffic or "outsiders" entering their community. The possible added income to the community is often dismissed because the opponents are usually well-heeled and don't CARE about how that income might aid the entire community. Have to say though, the way things have turned out I'm glad the Chicagoland site was moved as 1.) I refuse to go there and B.) the traffic around the original choice is already unmanageable on a daily basis let alone on a race weekend!
Methanolandbrats
09-24-09, 11:47 AM
There's a growing anti-motorsports sentiment in Europe. One relative was surprised that I want to go to a DTM/F3 event during my last visit. Seems that racing is "unecological". I did point out that neither his precious 1974 700 series BMW nor his A8 twin turbo daily driver were exactly green machines, but he failed to see the humor or the irony. I get so tired of the people bitching about motorsport and the environment. First of all it uses so little fuel that it's contribution to Global "pollution" and "usage" is irrelevant. Motor racing should draw a line in the sand and point out the stupidity of the attacks, but instead of defending themselves, F1, ALMS and others are slitting their own throats by pandering to "green" concerns. I am becoming more and more convinced that last century was the motorsport century and it's now over. Those loud, nasty Corvettes in GT2 are probably the last of a breed. Once the emphasis is on how little fuel you use, how quiet the car is and other idiotic concerns instead of how fast you lap, it's over.
A related story. I had an NBA fan tell me how "dirty" racing was. I pointed out racing is held outside and that the NBA games require lighting and heating a huge building and the teams take redeye flights which inject tons of fuel directly into the lower stratosphere where it does the most damage. So which sport is less "green"? He had no answer. The answer is both racing and basketball are entertainment. Neither is necessary. People have to be rational and accept activities they might not enjoy...the old live and let live deal.
Michaelhatesfans
09-24-09, 05:48 PM
If the peole who control motorsports hadn't spent the past fifteen years pissing off and driving away the fanbase, the opposition wouldn't seem quite as strong.:shakehead
oddlycalm
09-24-09, 08:42 PM
If the peole who control motorsports hadn't spent the past fifteen years pissing off and driving away the fanbase, the opposition wouldn't seem quite as strong.:shakehead
Very true whether we are talking about Max & Bernie or TG and the Frances. Regardless how much wealth and power they have they aren't satisfied and their decisions are only coincidentally helpful to the sport overall. There used to be a sense of community in racing that is sorely lacking for sometime.
oc
You'd think they'd be accustomed to loud noises.
Booooo.
:D
Grunschev
09-28-09, 01:16 AM
Don't get me started. I was bemoaning my HOA and their antics ... blah blah blah ... people wonder why socialistic behavior is rapidly increasing. I think the majority of those type of people would be happy living under the old soviet hammer & sickle as long as they could keep their Escalades and corner Starbucks. blah blah blah
Don't get you started? Don't get me started!
I always laugh when people compare their HOAs to the Nazis or Soviets. Frankly, your HOA is the closest you or anybody else will ever come to pure democracy. Anybody who has attended even one of their HOA meetings knows this. Heck, you know it if you've even bothered to read your CC&R's.
In my personal experience, *everybody* I've ever met who belonged to an HOA and called it Nazism or socialism has neither read their CC&R's nor attended a single meeting. They've also, without exception, signed contracts saying they would follow the rules. I never understood why any idiot would sign a contract saying they agree to follow rules they can't be bothered to read. And when they get caught not following the rules they're bound to follow by contract, they start calling people Nazis and commies. Because, you know, it's only those Nazis and commies who expect people to abide by signed contracts, right?
Bottom line, if you don't like the way the volunteers are running your HOA, step up to the plate and get yourself elected. If you don't like the rules, work to get them changed. All you have to do is convince your neighbors. Pure democracy!
Of course, what HOA's have to do with this topic is beyond me.
Unbelievable! Croft & Castle Combe in England are under treat as well because of neighbors complaining. Monza had to dramatically cut back on activity as well. Crazy.
Sean Malone
09-28-09, 08:24 AM
Don't get you started? Don't get me started!
I always laugh when people compare their HOAs to the Nazis or Soviets. Frankly, your HOA is the closest you or anybody else will ever come to pure democracy. Anybody who has attended even one of their HOA meetings knows this. Heck, you know it if you've even bothered to read your CC&R's.
In my personal experience, *everybody* I've ever met who belonged to an HOA and called it Nazism or socialism has neither read their CC&R's nor attended a single meeting. They've also, without exception, signed contracts saying they would follow the rules. I never understood why any idiot would sign a contract saying they agree to follow rules they can't be bothered to read. And when they get caught not following the rules they're bound to follow by contract, they start calling people Nazis and commies. Because, you know, it's only those Nazis and commies who expect people to abide by signed contracts, right?
Bottom line, if you don't like the way the volunteers are running your HOA, step up to the plate and get yourself elected. If you don't like the rules, work to get them changed. All you have to do is convince your neighbors. Pure democracy!
Of course, what HOA's have to do with this topic is beyond me.
First...thanks for calling me an idiot. I'm reporting you to the board owner. Second, you obviously don't live in an HOA community or never have. HOA's are power hungry neighborhood cliques that circumvent the covenants in order to enforce their own socialistic ideology in order to feed their egos. Pre plantings approval i.e. shrubbery, annuals, perennials; Drive by home inspections and homeowner tenure for board candidates. Just 3 examples of what my HOA has tried to implement WITHOUT VOTE and WITHOUT being defined or ALLOWED by the covenant in the past year. Step up? I'm the one that 'intruded' on their 'club' meeting to point out to them that their proposals had to be put to a vote. Needless to say I don't get the friendly waves from the 2 board directors on my street anymore. So much for the 'friendliness' of an HOA.
The latest news letter actually reminded the community that the HOA is "not the enemy, but our friends and neighbors". Well, if they believe they are getting treating like 'enemies' than obviously they are doing something wrong.
How about our HOA election fiasco 2 years ago when it cost the homeowners $25,000!!!! in legal fees when the outgoing president sued the incoming president for falsifying proxy votes he claimed were photocopies (the copies never surfaced and after 6 months in the state capitol courts it was dropped). All for a 'volunteer' position. Wow, what some people will do to HELP their community!! What did the new president do when he took his throne, I mean 'office'...raised the dues to help build the coffer HE spent in legal fees!!
In the case of my co-worker, her neighborhood is 2 years old. They have a property management company as head of the HOA for the first 3 years (which is normal for new communities). They established the covenant WITHOUT homeowner vote and they amend and enforce as they see fit. So much for 'democracy'.
My parents 25 year old neighborhood recently abolished their HOA and put in place a voluntary covenant. Every home adheres to it and the neighborhood has very quickly become a much friendlier place...and not having to pay yearly dues helps too (the homeowners share maintenance with the common areas).
HOA's claim they exists for for 2 main reasons...to maintain an overall level of property decorum which in turn helps keep home values higher than those 'outside'. In truth, the like homes 'outside' of our neighborhood have no less value than any 'inside'. I own my land...I own my house, NOT the HOA.
Nazi's? Hardy...I compare it to the old Soviet Union. "For the good of the community comrade, now mow your lawn or else!".
I like the 'final notes' section in this months news letter..."Children are vandalizing the tennis court pick-nick table by carving their initials in it. If anyone knows who 'JK luvs TM' is please contact the board so that we may work with the local authorities in prosecuting.".
That stands on it own without any comment from me.
:rofl:
Methanolandbrats
09-28-09, 08:49 AM
"The Prisoner" television series and "The Stepford Wives" were way ahead of their time detailing HOA "democracy".
Steve99
09-28-09, 03:43 PM
It's not an official skirmish, nor was there any other account other than the diary and the location was vague...but trot out the 'sacred battlefield' defense in northern VA and you can keep anything from getting built.
diary > Grant v Lee ???
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iDgWV-NCtD1v3dVNpVE51x8KdNOgD9AT6GCG0
Sean, my HOA is relatively non-intrusive, our dues are low, and our amenities are outstanding.
So I have to run a new paint color by some board. At least my neighbor can't paint his house pink.
Your mistake was moving to F-L-A. Which stands for ****ing Lunatic Asylum. :laugh:
Methanolandbrats
09-28-09, 10:20 PM
My HOA is non-existant. I can't imagine paying property tax and all the other ******** that goes with home ownership and asking "permission" to do things. Of course I have to deal with the building inspector of my city, but he's cool unless you raise goats or burn tires in the front yard.
but he's cool unless you raise goats or burn tires in the front yard.
You'd be surprised how true that can be. I've had several complaints about a guy burning his used toilet paper in the backyard. Now really, WTF? :shakehead
As for HOA, some of our police have take home cars. Officer in a development with a HOA had troubles with the association. No commercial vehicles means no police cars according to them. :rolleyes:
OT - as long as the courts entertain the NIMBY's - these will be a common occurrence.
miatanut
09-29-09, 12:42 AM
OT - as long as the courts entertain the NIMBY's - these will be a common occurrence.
I'd say that's bringing the thread right back onto the topic. NIMBYs. :thumdown:
Sean Malone
09-29-09, 08:42 AM
Sean, my HOA is relatively non-intrusive, our dues are low, and our amenities are outstanding.
So I have to run a new paint color by some board. At least my neighbor can't paint his house pink.
Your mistake was moving to F-L-A. Which stands for ****ing Lunatic Asylum. :laugh:
Correct!:thumbup:
I don't think it's Florida's fault, is it? More like the hoard of invaders from the north?:D I hear they are now rebounding in droves and heading for the greenland hills of Tennessee and other such places? At least we're still free to go where we want or can. Vote with your feet! Can't say I'm anti HOA/POA and I doubt they are all created equally but I'd sure be CAREFUL before signing into one!
Methanolandbrats
09-29-09, 12:15 PM
I don't think it's Florida's fault, is it? More like the hoard of invaders from the north?:D
Florida's native population is composed of illegal aliens, illiterate swamp crackers and criminals. Like much of the south, Florida needs northerners to move there and run the place. :gomer:
Yeah! Where's Andy Jackson when ya need 'im!... "And while yer at it ( Gen. Jackson, in a message to Pres. Monroe ) tell Spain if they can't handle Florida it's about time they turned it over to somebody who can!":D
Methanolandbrats
09-29-09, 01:18 PM
Yeah! Where's Andy Jackson when ya need 'im!... "And while yer at it ( Gen. Jackson, in a message to Pres. Monroe ) tell Spain if they can't handle Florida it's about time they turned it over to somebody who can!":D
While stuck in Vicksburg Mississippi, I had a similar discussion with a few natives while lounging at the pool. I could sense some hostility :D
Consider yourself lucky. A whole LOT of Wisconsoners never made it back from Vicksburg!
Methanolandbrats
09-29-09, 02:07 PM
Consider yourself lucky. A whole LOT of Wisconsoners never made it back from Vicksburg! I believe that, all they talked about was guns. One guy could use the same ammo in most of his pistols and rifles and his pals were mighty impressed. :gomer:
Wellll...actually I was referring to US Grant finally forcing the surrender of the place on July 4th, 1863 following terrible battles and seige warfare resulting in horrendous loss of life, many from Wisconsin. Lee retreated from Gettysburg the day before. Wish he'd figured out it was over right then.:(
Sean Malone
09-29-09, 05:14 PM
I don't think it's Florida's fault, is it? More like the hoard of invaders from the north?:D I hear they are now rebounding in droves and heading for the greenland hills of Tennessee and other such places? At least we're still free to go where we want or can. Vote with your feet! Can't say I'm anti HOA/POA and I doubt they are all created equally but I'd sure be CAREFUL before signing into one!
The worst part about florida are the New Yawkas, not your average NY folks mind you but the guys in Adidas exercise suits, 10 gold chains and greased back hair (yes, they really do dress like that). They drive huge SUV's with their bratty rude mannerless kids and a wife that has more plastic under her skin than a Barbi Doll and only wears big cat print clothes, 2 sizes too small. They love to corral the whole crew into the nicest restaurants (jogging suits et al) and sit right next to me.
The crackers are pretty bad but they stay to themselves in their single wides only crawling out to take forever in front of me at the grocery store digging in their purses past her cigarette boxes with one hand looking for her food stamps while slapping her filthy bratty kids in the back of their head to put the candy down. The husbands NEVER come inside. They sit in the car, windows down, either too messed up or too hung over to 'deal' with it.
I love it!!
Methanolandbrats
09-29-09, 05:41 PM
The worst part about florida are the New Yawkas, not your average NY folks mind you but the guys in Adidas exercise suits, 10 gold chains and greased back hair (yes, they really do dress like that). They drive huge SUV's with their bratty rude mannerless kids and a wife that has more plastic under her skin than a Barbi Doll and only wears big cat print clothes, 2 sizes too small. They love to corral the whole crew into the nicest restaurants (jogging suits et al) and sit right next to me.
The crackers are pretty bad but they stay to themselves in their single wides only crawling out to take forever in front of me at the grocery store digging in their purses past her cigarette boxes with one hand looking for her food stamps while slapping her filthy bratty kids in the back of their head to put the candy down. The husbands NEVER come inside. They sit in the car, windows down, either too messed up or too hung over to 'deal' with it.
I love it!!
:laugh:
oddlycalm
09-29-09, 08:06 PM
The worst part about florida...
Don't forget the blue hairs in their Cadaverlacs. My motorcylce memories from Flawduh are still vivid. :eek: Made me feel like I had a target on my tail.
oc
The worst part about florida are the New Yawkas, not your average NY folks mind you but the guys in Adidas exercise suits, 10 gold chains and greased back hair (yes, they really do dress like that). They drive huge SUV's with their bratty rude mannerless kids and a wife that has more plastic under her skin than a Barbi Doll and only wears big cat print clothes, 2 sizes too small. They love to corral the whole crew into the nicest restaurants (jogging suits et al) and sit right next to me.
The crackers are pretty bad but they stay to themselves in their single wides only crawling out to take forever in front of me at the grocery store digging in their purses past her cigarette boxes with one hand looking for her food stamps while slapping her filthy bratty kids in the back of their head to put the candy down. The husbands NEVER come inside. They sit in the car, windows down, either too messed up or too hung over to 'deal' with it.
I love it!!
Very nice description. I can almost smell the Hawaiian Tropic/Aqua Velva/chicken bone aroma in the Publix parking lot.
cameraman
09-29-09, 11:26 PM
It's amazing how different things are in Utah.
Not better per se but totally different, on a different planet sort of level.
opinionated ow
09-30-09, 01:31 AM
It's amazing how different things are in Utah.
Not better per se but totally different, on a different planet sort of level.
Didn't the change the multiple spouse laws?
cameraman
09-30-09, 01:57 AM
It's been illegal for a hundred years but there is a dude who lives up by the state capitol who has ~106 kids (probably more by now). A significant percentage of this state recognizes no government beyond their version of God. There are tens of thousands of polygamists of all variety in this state. At the same time Salt lake City has a much higher than normal GLBT population & the Representative to the State Legislature for my district is an open lesbian, go figure. Needless to say Utah is highly unique place.
...the Representative to the State Legislature for my district is an open lesbian, go figure.
How many wives does she have? :gomer:
oddlycalm
09-30-09, 03:49 PM
The nature of the freak show may change from one locale to another but what doesn't change is that there is always a freak show. :laugh:
From the time she was 12 our daughter was able to spot the gate at the airport with the Portland flight from 200ft. without knowing the gate #. No real trick to it, just look for the Goodwill wardrobes in earth tones and the bad haircuts. :gomer:
oc
Sean Malone
09-30-09, 05:44 PM
I'm in Atlanta over in 'Vinings' on a biz trip this week. Really, really nice area. I don't think they allow freaks around here. I was cut off by a Bently and had to smile when I saw 3 bimmers, a Land Rover and 2 Audi's in line in front of me today at Starbucks. Even the mundane stores are 'upgraded' like the corner Wallgreens. Damn I wish I were rich!!
datachicane
09-30-09, 08:46 PM
The nature of the freak show may change from one locale to another but what doesn't change is that there is always a freak show. :laugh:
From the time she was 12 our daughter was able to spot the gate at the airport with the Portland flight from 200ft. without knowing the gate #. No real trick to it, just look for the Goodwill wardrobes in earth tones and the bad haircuts. :gomer:
oc
Don't forget sandals with socks and white kids with dreads.
You can always tell which folks at the gate are going home and which are heading out.
I'm in Atlanta over in 'Vinings' on a biz trip this week. Really, really nice area. I don't think they allow freaks around here. I was cut off by a Bently and had to smile when I saw 3 bimmers, a Land Rover and 2 Audi's in line in front of me today at Starbucks. Even the mundane stores are 'upgraded' like the corner Wallgreens. Damn I wish I were rich!!
Have you figured out which building is The Weather Channel? My son used to live close to it. Very non-descript, black multi-story, next to the interstate. Rumor was the Weather Channel babes were being stalked so its now off limits.
Nuevo Loredo Cantina. Not in the Vinings but worth the trip if you like Mexican. I go every time I visit the area. Hope to be there next weekend. :thumbup:
Sean Malone
09-30-09, 09:15 PM
Have you figured out which building is The Weather Channel? My son used to live close to it. Very non-descript, black multi-story, next to the interstate. Rumor was the Weather Channel babes were being stalked so its now off limits.
Nuevo Loredo Cantina. Not in the Vinings but worth the trip if you like Mexican. I go every time I visit the area. Hope to be there next weekend. :thumbup:
Hmm, not that I can think of but I'll keep my eye out for it. I'm over at IBM HQ which is quite nice (building built over a small river like if FLR were to do big biz)). I like the area though and my god it seems like every major corp in the country is here and all of their campuses are nestled into the hillside very tastefully. Stark contrast to FL.
Wow - is there ANY topic that this thread has missed? :rofl:
Sean Malone
09-30-09, 09:22 PM
Wow - is there ANY topic that this thread has missed? :rofl:
Bacon. :)
What I've learned from this thread. Don't let HOA's in FL ruin Formula 1 races in Belgium, freaks are everywhere but when all is else fails travel to the rich section of Atlanta so you can feel inferior (or superior when you get back home). LOL!
NAILED it!:thumbup: (and don't you fergit it, neither.)
Truth be known, this sort of ADD behavior has a long history here. Usually it was more confined to the off-season boredom but look what is happening to us even in the midst of THE CHASE, the sale of :tony:'s house, F-1 scandal and that scintillating race for the IndyCup! Or whatever it is they race for now.
Methanolandbrats
10-01-09, 11:14 AM
Truth be known, this sort of ADD behavior has a long history here. Usually it was more confined to the off-season boredom but look what is happening to us even in the midst of THE CHASE, the sale of :tony:'s house, F-1 scandal and that scintillating race for the IndyCup! Or whatever it is they race for now.
They must race for the Silver Bed Pan in the upper right of this page
http://www.indycar.com/
Sean Malone
10-01-09, 01:10 PM
Truth be known, this sort of ADD behavior has a long history here. Usually it was more confined to the off-season boredom but look what is happening to us even in the midst of THE CHASE, the sale of :tony:'s house, F-1 scandal and that scintillating race for the IndyCup! Or whatever it is they race for now.
You got it. Ever since Champ Car sold out it's just one long off season really. I love F1 but they are doing their best to alienate.
miatanut
10-01-09, 02:12 PM
The politics is getting even worse, but the on-track product is the best it's been in years! Just ignore the politics.
Methanolandbrats
10-01-09, 02:22 PM
The politics is getting even worse, but the on-track product is the best it's been in years! Just ignore the politics.
The tracks are becoming the problem. If the trend away from natural terrain road courses continues and most of the tracks are Tilke crap and well-lit urban car flume/music festival garbage...who cares what is on the track.
oddlycalm
10-01-09, 07:26 PM
The tracks are becoming the problem. If the trend away from natural terrain road courses continues and most of the tracks are Tilke crap and well-lit urban car flume/music festival garbage...who cares what is on the track.
Suzuka is a welcome return. :thumbup:
oc
miatanut
10-01-09, 07:52 PM
The tracks are becoming the problem. If the trend away from natural terrain road courses continues and most of the tracks are Tilke crap and well-lit urban car flume/music festival garbage...who cares what is on the track.
OK, I was thinking more of the cars, and assuming the Tilke crap was just the continuation of the process Stewart started and that no one would ever have the guts to stop it.
Methanolandbrats
10-02-09, 01:06 PM
OK, I was thinking more of the cars, and assuming the Tilke crap was just the continuation of the process Stewart started and that no one would ever have the guts to stop it. Ya, I know I was a little off topic, but no matter the state of the cars, if they continue down the Tilke/Street race path I think it will ruin the sport.
Just ignore the politics? How's that working out for us from DC?
miatanut
10-02-09, 09:12 PM
Ya, I know I was a little off topic, but no matter the state of the cars, if they continue down the Tilke/Street race path I think it will ruin the sport.
Agreed.
Problem is it is now so politically incorrect to suggest a track where a driver has to take a deep breath before going through a section that we are screwed on that part.
As for street races, the biggest race of the year is a street race, and has been for over 60 years. Singapore is not popular around here, but I think it has a nice flow. I thought Valencia was terminally boring. Depends on the circuit. The good thing about street circuits is they reward very precise driving on the limit. They have politically incorrect concrete walls right next to the line, not a relatively flat curb, followed by 50 feet or more of paved run-off before the first obstacle, and it's only the threat of penalties that keep the drivers from putting four wheels over the curb every lap. :thumdown:
Sean Malone
10-03-09, 02:18 PM
Agreed.
Problem is it is now so politically incorrect to suggest a track where a driver has to take a deep breath before going through a section that we are screwed on that part.
As for street races, the biggest race of the year is a street race, and has been for over 60 years. Singapore is not popular around here, but I think it has a nice flow. I thought Valencia was terminally boring. Depends on the circuit. The good thing about street circuits is they reward very precise driving on the limit. They have politically incorrect concrete walls right next to the line, not a relatively flat curb, followed by 50 feet or more of paved run-off before the first obstacle, and it's only the threat of penalties that keep the drivers from putting four wheels over the curb every lap. :thumdown:
NO character in either of those street courses. It was difficult if not nearly impossible for me to tell where on the track the car they were showing was. Cool backdrops, but backdrops don't make a track good, at least from a viewing perspective. They both seem very difficult from a drivers perspective.
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