View Full Version : ALMS at Laguna Seca
Trevor Longman
10-12-09, 09:46 AM
Did anyone else catch the race yesterday? Best race they have put on all season IMO. I loved the Fernandez vs. De Ferran battle and of course the Porsche vs. Corvette Battle. Those last 15 minutes were very thrilling but also highly controversial and I wanted to hear what your opinion was of it.
cameraman
10-12-09, 10:50 AM
Has anyone filed a protest?
Why would anyone want to protest? ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CBeuoJmZ7g
(skip ahead to 3rd min)
Great race! Everyone was racing for something.
I'd have to say there is a huge difference between a bump in a corner to "loosen a guy up" and simply running a guy into the wall at speed and wrecking him. Not a Corvette/Porsche thing for me at all. I suppose the "block" will be viewed by many as just an allowable single move? Into the wall? Not playing nice, were they? (Maybe Jan should have simply straightend the Corkscrew a bit to take the lead "A la ssandro" and won the thing right there!:D)
So, when do we get to watch "the tempers flaring on pit road?"
What a joke. Jorg should have been disqualified for that.
miatanut
10-13-09, 01:04 AM
Magnussen was being a prick.
Next year is going to be such a thrill! Which Corvette will win GT2 this week? :rolleyes: Sponsored by a bankrupt auto maker, no less.
At least GT2 gave us a few great years of racing.
Magnussen was being a prick.
Being a prick vs. directly risking lives by intentionally wrecking a competitor? Sorry, but I still think Jorg crossed the line.
The officials set the precedent in 2007 at Sebring. Bumping your way past the leader is okay on the last turn. Jan tried to copy Melo's move, only Jorg wasn't gonna let it happen this time.
for ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUmaOd2z8HM
Hopefully, the point has been made that cars crashing into each other is not racing.
chop456
10-13-09, 02:19 AM
The officials set the precedent in 2007 at Sebring. Bumping your way past the leader is okay on the last turn.
Agree 100%. After that, all bets are off.
miatanut
10-13-09, 01:02 PM
Being a prick vs. directly risking lives by intentionally wrecking a competitor? Sorry, but I still think Jorg crossed the line.
I'm a lizard fan, but I agree that at the very least, it wasn't cool.
I don't agree it was risking lives. He had about the worst hit you could have, and without a Hans, it could have been bad, but with a Hans, it's a non-event.
Mario made a comment 20 years ago that racing had been made so safe that the quality of the driving had gone way down, with guys pulling BS they never would have early in his career because it would have been risking the lives of themselves or peers.
I agree.
It's up to the officials now to enforce good driving.
There are still a whole lot of crazy things that can happen and kill someone in an instant. No matter how much safer racing is, it is still potential manslaughter to take a risk like that.
I agree, however, that the beginnings of this are in the sanctioning body's NASCAResque philosophy of anything goes for the win. It greatly devalues ALMS as a legitimate top level series, in my opinion.
grungex
10-13-09, 02:54 PM
Well said.
I think they were both going 100% and both crossed the line. Too be honest, Magnussen pushed Jorg out of the way in turn 11. What was Jorg supposed to do, let him pass? After what happened at Sebring a few years ago, there was no way he was going to be second again. It's all fair! Jan can't complain, and from my understandings he hasn't, which is great!
Personally, I loved the finish, like I loved the Sebring finish a few years back. ALMS is in a battle with Grand-Am; stuff like this will add viewership, like the Magunessen-Pappis finish at Homestead added viewers for Grand-AM. ALMS will keep showing it over and over again, like Grand-Am did with the Homestead battle. They won't penalize someone for battling hard like that, because if they did then there won't be any more of these types of finish and racing will become more boring then it all ready is. Already they made racing in the rain too dangerous...Come on, guys, you know you loved it!
For me, it ranks right up there with the Kesolawski-Edwards finish at Talladega; it looks like a nasty deal, but since no one got hurt, they'll call it 'racing'. British Touring Car style IMO; it is what it is, until someone gets hurt. Kind of like every single IRL side by side oval race....
IMSA has placed them both on probation, but won't change the results:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/alms-magnussen-bergmeister-put-on-probation/
I assume this means the #4 Corvette an #62 Risi Ferrari can still bash each other to bits. :p
"What was Jorg supposed to do!?" Let me guess...run the bastard into the wall!? That's what real race drivers do, right? It's all about viewership, eh? Sorry, I'm not seein' it.
"What was Jorg supposed to do!?" Let me guess...run the bastard into the wall!? That's what real race drivers do, right? It's all about viewership, eh? Sorry, I'm not seein' it.
What would you do? Just let Magnussen pass after he ran into you at the last corner and then try and complain? No, you try and block him and drag race him to the line.
How many times have you seen a Formula One driver run a guy to the wall like that? I've seen World Champs like Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, Kimi, Piquet and Mansell do it. And, those have open wheels, where you risk the wheels to inter-lock and one car to take flight.
Fio, Joerg didn't "try" to block him, he ran him into a cement wall and wrecked him! The bump in the final turn was in no way comparable. (Jan says Joerg "parked the car and I slid up and hit him a little." I wonder what he meant by that? Brake check? Maybe Joerg deserved it, then?) YES he should have raced him to the line, in which case the Corvette would have won because Jan was ahead when hit and spun into the wall. Of course we have seen F-1 dart all over the track blocking at speed but I'm not certain that's an argument for allowing it in the ALMS, though it may be an argument for not permitting another wall-slamming such as one we just saw.
extramundane
10-14-09, 11:59 AM
http://demos.2it.us/vettewreck.gif
miatanut
10-14-09, 01:48 PM
Fio, Joerg didn't "try" to block him, he ran him into a cement wall and wrecked him! The bump in the final turn was in no way comparable. (Jan says Joerg "parked the car and I slid up and hit him a little." I wonder what he meant by that? Brake check? Maybe Joerg deserved it, then?) YES he should have raced him to the line, in which case the Corvette would have won because Jan was ahead when hit and spun into the wall. Of course we have seen F-1 dart all over the track blocking at speed but I'm not certain that's an argument for allowing it in the ALMS, though it may be an argument for not permitting another wall-slamming such as one we just saw.
I don't buy Joerg "parked the car and I slid up and hit him a little." 911's have always been point and squirt cars. If a driver doesn't drive that way, he will be facing traffic on corner exit. A Corvette driver who has been racing around them for years should allow for that. Pick one side or the other. Then the 911 will put the power down like nobody's business on exit, as usual. Real racing.
This was a deliberate bump to loosen him up. That's why the officials suspended both of them.
Didn't ask anyone to buy it, just repeating what Jan said. Both drivers initiated contact, no doubt, but what was done further up the straight removes any need to "buy" what happened there. Seriously, are we now justifying such moves by suggesting the only alternative was to LET him by? The sequence above shows the Porsche didn't have as much "squirt" as you suggest. If suspensions had to be handed out, Joerg's should have been twice as long.
cameraman
10-14-09, 06:40 PM
The sequence above shows the Porsche didn't have as much "squirt" as you suggest.
Getting punted has that effect on a car.
Too much brake...lost the rhythm.;)
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