Proof it you don't need a lot of sense to drive in F1

[emjaya]

The Autosport's Greatest Drivers Poll. (http://f1greatestdrivers.autosport.com/)


AUTOSPORT invited drivers who have raced in the Formula 1 world championship (including those who raced under F2 rules in 1952-1953) to vote for their top 10 "greatest" drivers of the world championship era

The full list. :saywhat: :eek: :saywhat:

76=: Peter Collins, Luigi Villoresi, Mark Webber, Mike Hailwood, Pedro Rodriguez, Eddie Irvine, Andrea De Cesaris and Kazuki Nakajima.
75: Pedro Lamy
74: Tonio Liuzzi
73: Harry Schell
72: Stefano Modena
71: Carlos Pace
70: Wolfgang von Trips
69: Maurice Trintignant
68: Hans Herrmann
67: Derek Warwick
66: Johnny Herbert
65: Jean-Pierre Beltoise
64: Chris Amon
63: Aguri Suzuki
62: Denny Hulme
61: Bruce McLaren
60: Tom Pryce
59: Felipe Massa
58: Jo Siffert
57: Alex Zanardi
56: Tony Maggs
55: Henri Pescarolo
54: Mike Hawthorn
53: Elio De Angelis
52: Tony Brooks
51: Juan Pablo Montoya
50: Michele Alboreto
49: Jacques Laffite
48: Lorenzo Bandini
47: Jody Scheckter
46: Piero Taruffi
45: Damon Hill
44: Didier Pironi
43: Robert Kubica
42: Jean Alesi
41: Jacques Villeneuve
40: Jacky Ickx
39: Riccardo Patrese
38: Jean Behra
37: Gerhard Berger
36: Clay Regazzoni
35: Stefan Bellof
34: Carlos Reutemann
33: Phil Hill
32: Giuseppe Farina
31: Alan Jones
30: Jenson Button
29: Francois Cervert
28: Dan Gurney
27: Jose Froilan Gonzalez
26: Sebastian Vettel
25: Keke Rosberg
24: James Hunt
23: John Surtees
22: Kimi Raikkonen
21: Graham Hill
20: Mario Andretti
19: Ronnie Petterson
18: Jack Brabham
17: Lewis Hamilton
16: Alberto Ascari
15: Mika Hakkinen
14: Jochen Rindt
13: Nelson Piquet Snr
12: Emerson Fittipaldi
11: Nigel Mansell
10: Gilles Villeneuve
9: Fernando Alonso
8: Sir Stirling Moss
7: Niki Lauda
6: Sir Jackie Stewart
5: Jim Clark
4: Alain Prost
3: Juan Manuel Fangio
2: Michael Schumacher
1: Ayrton Senna

[extramundane]

Not a lot to argue with in the top 10, but shortly thereafter there are some, um, interesting choices. :eek:

[Don Quixote]

Dang. Mikey didn't make the list. :D

[SteveH]

Dang. Mikey didn't make the list. :D

Neither did I.
\
http://www.rediff.com/sports/2002/sep/28fisher.jpg

[chop456]

^ Is that car made by the same people that built the giant chair Lily Tomlin used to sit in?

[Sean Malone]

No love for Weber, but Alonso in the top 10.

[NismoZ]

WHAT!? No Jean-Pierre Sarti!?:saywhat:

[miatanut]

Not a lot to argue with in the top 10, but shortly thereafter there are some, um, interesting choices. :eek:

Schumi before Fangio and Clark?

I was a Schumi fan (except for the occasional dirty move), but I don't think he belongs before Fangio and Clark.

I'm not sure about Senna before Fangio either. Senna's system was 'give way to me or we're both out'. In Fangio's day, it would be 'give way or we're both in the hospital, or dead.' As a result, there were lots of times Fangio was stuck behind a slower car.

[nissan gtp]

... Senna's system was 'give way to me or we're both out'. In Fangio's day, it would be 'give way or we're both in the hospital, or dead.' As a result, there were lots of times Fangio was stuck behind a slower car.

and that's why they drove differently.

And Juan wasn't stuck that often

52 races
29 pole positions (55%)
24 wins (46%)
35 podium finishes (67%)
5 championships (1951, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957)

[extramundane]

Schumi before Fangio and Clark?


I said "not a lot" not "nothing" ;)

[RusH]

Hammy ahead of Brabham and Hill,,,yeah babay :rofl:

[STD]

and that's why they drove differently.

And Juan wasn't stuck that often

52 races
29 pole positions (55%)
24 wins (46%)
35 podium finishes (67%)
5 championships (1951, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957)

Thanks for that. Also 23 fastest laps.
He was second in the points in 1950, 1953. He did not compete in F1 championship races in 1952 as he broke his neck at the Monza GP F2 race where he was thrown from the car. He took the rest of that year off.
Raced twice in 1958 on more or less his retirement tour.


Also there is a successful history of racing outside of F1. ;)

[mapguy]

Schumi before Fangio and Clark?



Anybody before Clark and Fangio? Senna deserves to be in the top 5 but NFW should he be first.

[NismoZ]

:eek:BLASPHEMER!!:eek: To the stake with you!

[Sean Malone]

Anybody before Clark and Fangio? Senna deserves to be in the top 5 but NFW should he be first.

I think he should. But I also think that comparing the no downforce ere with the downforce ere is ridiculous. Senna was an international sensation but many forget that he first and foremost carried his reputation among his peers. As Gerhard Berger explained in the foreword of 'The Life of Senna' by Tom Rubython, Senna could find traction where no other driver dared go. In the age where the racing line is on a razers edge, this was a rare talent. Unlike the old days where they were drifting around corners like Samuel Hübinette.

[miatanut]

I think he should. But I also think that comparing the no downforce ere with the downforce ere is ridiculous. Senna was an international sensation but many forget that he first and foremost carried his reputation among his peers. As Gerhard Berger explained in the foreword of 'The Life of Senna' by Tom Rubython, Senna could find traction where no other driver dared go. In the age where the racing line is on a razers edge, this was a rare talent. Unlike the old days where they were drifting around corners like Samuel Hübinette.

He had great focus, great bravery, and extraordinary skills, but the whole 'yield or we're both out' BS tarnishes his legacy for me. Thing is, the last 1 1/2 years of his life he finally matured and left that behind and I grew to like him, making it all the more sad that we lost him just as he had become a truly great driver. Unfortunately, a lot of that great record was built on driving that was rude to unsafe. Very unlike Fangio and Clark.

[JohnHKart]

These polls- the same ones as 100 best songs or 100 best guitar players or singers are as always total rubbish. Pedro Lamy above drivers that won races? :eek:

JH

[Opposite Lock]

Neither did I.
\
http://www.rediff.com/sports/2002/sep/28fisher.jpg

Dang, that photo makes it look like she could be the fruit of Chip Ganassi's loins.:eek:


^ Is that car made by the same people that built the giant chair Lily Tomlin used to sit in?
:rofl:

[Rogue Leader]

These polls- the same ones as 100 best songs or 100 best guitar players or singers are as always total rubbish. Pedro Lamy above drivers that won races? :eek:

JH

How about the fact Aguri Suzuki and Andrea de Crasheris are even on this list!

Otherwise this list isn't 'THAT' bad....

[STD]

http://forix.autosport.com/8w/250f/jmf-f57.jpg

[pchall]

no no no

Jimmy Clark can never be number five. He is still the best i have ever watched. I was only eleven but I knew his greatness.

[miatanut]

http://forix.autosport.com/8w/250f/jmf-f57.jpg

Fangio using a little chrome horn there?

Probably unintentional though.

[STD]

I wasn't really paying too much attention to the body work damage. :)

[miatanut]

Yes, it is a nice drift!

[STD]

Side note for those that were unimpressed with advancements in braking technology, take a look at the size of those drums.

[pchall]

Side note for those that were unimpressed with advancements in braking technology, take a look at the size of those drums.

You should find and read the Scarab history to learn just how far they pushed drum brake technology. I hated the rear drums on my little grey R5. I needed to service them every 3k miles.

[STD]

I'm well aware of the advancements and the experiments.
Check out the BRM P48 from the disc side of things.

[datachicane]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Auto_Union_Typ_D_Detail_Radaufh%C3%A4ngung_EMS.jpg/508px-Auto_Union_Typ_D_Detail_Radaufh%C3%A4ngung_EMS.jpg

Auto Union Type D
Check out the parallel trailing arm/torsion bar front suspension, too...

[NismoZ]

Wow, reminds me of a Scarab brake story told me by Lenny Kaplan at RA during a lunch break at the Brian Redman Vintage races years ago. Sharing stories was Bob McKee, but the one I remember was about Augie Pabst and the Meister Brauser Scarab at Meadowdale and Road America during the 1960 season. Remember, this story was being told about 35 years later, but Augie and the Scarab were right over our shoulder! (what a great museum!) It was Meadowdale, 1960 and Jim Jeffords held the lap record from the previous season at 2:07 but Augie was having trouble getting near it until Kaplan admonished him to USE THE BRAKES harder!! Result? Almost immediately the record dropped to 2:04! I was there and cheered happily. Augie won the USAC National Sportscar Championship that year! A Pabst in a Meister Brauser... and the board wasn't too happy!:D (PS-Augie also sat the lap record at RA that year in winning the June Sprints, turning a 2:41. And, PSS-a young guy named Roger Penske was the first ever to turn a sub-2:30 lap at RA only 3 years later in that cheater (he started early:D) Dupont Zerex Spcl. Man, things were changing FAST in those days! And PPPS-remember Augie's 2:04 at Meadowdale? Ed Leslie in one of Shelby's King Cobras had taken SEVEN seconds off that by the '64 USRRC race. Fun times.:)

[Napoleon]

Check out the parallel trailing arm/torsion bar front suspension, too...

That is so similar to my Formula Vee's front suspension.

[miatanut]

When I saw that suspension I was going to make a rude comment about FV suspensions, but held my tongue.

I don't understand the German preference for transverse torsion bars. Longitudinally, like my old Alfa did and Chrysler did, it's very simple to do a double wishbone with camber recovery.

[STD]

The same German consulting/design team that was formed in Stuttgart.

[oddlycalm]

I'm well aware of the advancements and the experiments.
Check out the BRM P48 from the disc side of things.
Compared to the complexity of four leading shoe cast magnesium drum brakes it's an elegant solution...:cool:

oc

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/3030/BRM-P48_11.jpg

[NismoZ]

Uh, huh...and ONE little bump and...I think I know why that one wasn't around very long.

[SteveH]

interesting concept for the driven wheels

I assume the front wheels had disks

[G.]

Wow, reminds me of a Scarab brake story told me by Lenny Kaplan at RA during a lunch break at the Brian Redman Vintage races years ago. Sharing stories was Bob McKee, but the one I remember was about Augie Pabst and the Meister Brauser Scarab at Meadowdale and Road America during the 1960 season. Remember, this story was being told about 35 years later, but Augie and the Scarab were right over our shoulder! (what a great museum!) It was Meadowdale, 1960 and Jim Jeffords held the lap record from the previous season at 2:07 but Augie was having trouble getting near it until Kaplan admonished him to USE THE BRAKES harder!! Result? Almost immediately the record dropped to 2:04! I was there and cheered happily. Augie won the USAC National Sportscar Championship that year! A Pabst in a Meister Brauser... and the board wasn't too happy!:D (PS-Augie also sat the lap record at RA that year in winning the June Sprints, turning a 2:41. And, PSS-a young guy named Roger Penske was the first ever to turn a sub-2:30 lap at RA only 3 years later in that cheater (he started early:D) Dupont Zerex Spcl. Man, things were changing FAST in those days! And PPPS-remember Augie's 2:04 at Meadowdale? Ed Leslie in one of Shelby's King Cobras had taken SEVEN seconds off that by the '64 USRRC race. Fun times.:)

nice post!
:thumbup:

[oddlycalm]

Uh, huh...and ONE little bump and...I think I know why that one wasn't around very long.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

oc

[pchall]

nice post!
:thumbup:

Those were the good days. I loved racing when I was little boy.

[Fio1]

Scott Speed probably voted for his buddy Liuzzi, that's why he's up there. Nakajima sr probably put his son 10th and who knows who voted for Lamy; maybe he voted for himself? :saywhat:

Good drivers missing:
David Coulthard
Rubens Barrichello
John Watson
Jean-Pierre Jabbouille
Jean-Pierre Jarier

I would have listed Jim Clark #1, imo.

[Easy]

Good drivers missing:
David Coulthard
Rubens Barrichello
John Watson
Jean-Pierre Jabbouille
Jean-Pierre Jarier

I would have listed Jim Clark #1, imo.


I didn't catch that DC was left out which is ridiculous given some of the names that made it. 13 GP wins, the most points ever by a brit and finished in the top three in points 5 times. Maybe he would have even won a title if Ron hadn't favored Mika so heavily. (but probably not)

After the top 5 or so that list is highly debatable. And Fio is probably right about Speed voting for Tonio.

[miatanut]

Those were the good days. I loved racing when I was little boy.

That's what I was thinking. The days of folks trying screwy stuff in search of an advantage. I blame overly restrictive rules which are actually aimed at preserving the status quo.

[Napoleon]

Uh, huh...and ONE little bump and...I think I know why that one wasn't around very long.

:D

When I ran FVs we had a similar issue. In those cars the VW Beetle engine/transaxle combination was reversed from how it was ran in the car, with the engine up front and the transaxle in back so that the farthest rear part was no longer the flywheel pulley but the shift linkage coming out of the transaxle case which usually overhung the frame. Well people soon figured out the way to get rid of the guy in front of you was to draft him and bump him into neutral by giving him a love tap. So you had to build a little bumper to keep people away from your shift linkage.

Amazing that the engineer that built that did not think of the issue.


(for those of you wondering, some gear in the transaxle was flipped so that you then had 4 gears in "reverse" and one in "forward" which of course meant that since you were running the assembly in reverse from how it was in the car that you had 4 forward gears and one reverse)

[meadors]

To be on the list at all somebody had to rate you as one of the top ten of all time. So if the rankings are achieved by taking each voters top ten, then some of the voters really threw some odd picks out as the top ten of all time.

[Rogue Leader]

To be on the list at all somebody had to rate you as one of the top ten of all time. So if the rankings are achieved by taking each voters top ten, then some of the voters really threw some odd picks out as the top ten of all time.

That means SOME retard actually put Andrea De Crasheris in their top 10 of ALL TIME?!?!?

[cameraman]

That means SOME retard actually put Andrea De Crasheris in their top 10 of ALL TIME?!?!?

I'm thinking that maybe, just maybe some people did not take the poll seriously.