1999 @ Nazareth

[opinionated ow]

Why did they go to speeedway wings @ Nazareth in 1999? Just downloaded it with Ben Edwards & Jeremy Shaw on the commentary-just can't understand why you would speedway wings on a short oval?!?

[Elmo T]

I don't recall specific reasons, but perhaps a response to the use of the Hanford Device in 1998 and attempts to lower speeds?

Nazareth was not your typical oval either. What the track map doesn't show was the elevation change. A walk to the back straight, and you could really see the drop.

http://i46.tinypic.com/6gwr5h.gif

[dando]

Nazareth was not your typical oval either. What the track map doesn't show was the elevation change. A walk to the back straight, and you could really see the drop.

Which is why it was referred to as a roval. Loved that track. :(

-Kevin

[Elmo T]

Which is why it was referred to as a roval.

-Kevin

Didn't some drivers say the place had 11 turns or something like that? :thumbup:

[opinionated ow]

Which is why it was referred to as a roval. Loved that track. :(

-Kevin
According to that source of inspiratoin that is wikipedia someone with enough money could run it again....I'd pay big bucks to see super modifieds there or heck even tour-type modifieds. or for that matter silver crown.

[Andrew Longman]

They went to the speedway wings because the felt they were going too fast. Ruined the racing and the local press said so, hurting attenance.

Great track that intimidated drivers and crew chiefs. Perfect,

No distended to be a shopping center

[Sean Malone]

Went to many CART races at Naz. Always one of the highlights of the year. Like fighter planes in a gym....uh, skip that.

I think my first race there was in 91 or 92 and the energy and excitement in the air was electric. Mansell was there...Mario was retiring...hotel rooms were booked in a 100 mile radius, bill boards with Emmo's eyes were everywhere, the stands were packed, the crowd were CART fans, VIPs were helicoptering in all day long Sat.

I went every year afterward...was there for the snow out...was there at the end when the stands were half full and the air was out of the balloon.

I still have a hard time reminiscing about CART...first I get sad, then I get mad.

I know they razed the stands years ago, but I thought the whole thing was plowed under too. ?

[Napoleon]

One track I always wish I had seen a CART race at.

Sean, I think they sold off and removed the grandstands, but since that is Longman's home track I am sure he can give you the whole history.

[dando]

I know they razed the stands years ago, but I thought the whole thing was plowed under too. ?

The last updates I can find show it still up for sale. That area of PA isn't in great shape right now.

-Kevin

[Elmo T]

..was there for the snow out...

I know they razed the stands years ago, but I thought the whole thing was plowed under too. ?

We got sunburned on Saturday and snowed out on Sunday. :thumbup::rolleyes:

I haven't been up that way in a few years. Maybe I will plan a road trip and take a few photos. :(

Linky thing to Google Maps with relatively recent view (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=nazareth+pa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.572881,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nazareth,+Northampton,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.728218,-75.319862&spn=0.007838,0.01929&t=h&z=16)

EDIT - Bing has more recent views. Stands ALL gone. New link (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qsn49s8qq2m1&scene=45968532&lvl=2&sty=b&sp=Point.qsn49s8qq2m1_Nazareth%20Speedway____&where1=Nazareth%2C%20PA)

[TKGAngel]

EDIT - Bing has more recent views. Stands ALL gone.

IIRC, the stands are now at The Glen.

[Andrew Longman]

The stands are down. Much of them have been relocated to Watkins Glen.

The land was to be sold off to make a mall but the economy tossed that. I still sits waiting for a better economy and sale.

[Indy]

Why did they go to speeedway wings @ Nazareth in 1999? Just downloaded it with Ben Edwards & Jeremy Shaw on the commentary-just can't understand why you would speedway wings on a short oval?!?

To slow the cars. Long story short, the owners of CART (who were the major team owners) were sucking the teats of the manufacturers, and changing the engine spec was a political hot potato they were afraid to touch. So they resorted to ridiculous means to reduce speeds. The Hanford ruined superspeedway racing, and speedway wings ruined the miles.

Like thousands of other fans I sat through a few bad Milwaukee races and left the last one in disgust vowing not to return until they fixed the wings. They never did.

[KLang]

To slow the cars. Long story short, the owners of CART (who were the major team owners) were sucking the teats of the manufacturers, and changing the engine spec was a political hot potato they were afraid to touch.


The way I remember it, the manufacturers where on board with changing the spec but a few of the owners couldn't get over their indyitis. Death of the sport right there. :mad:

[Chief]

Had some GREAT times camping there....the infield tent/camper blaze, watching porn at night at someones camp on the side of a tent, someone doing muddy doughnuts late after the rainout and drinking a local pup out of gin. Snow, frost, rain, sun burns, tornado warnings, makeup races, Marlboro challenge, tires chirping in the corners, NH lighted brake rotors, cringing each time they went through the kink after the start finish line.

You had to have major cajones to race at Nazareth. I miss it dearly.

Thanks Tony.:shakehead:tony:

[dando]

The way I remember it, the manufacturers where on board with changing the spec but a few of the owners couldn't get over their indyitis. Death of the sport right there. :mad:

Except for pop-off valve gate when Homoco got pizzled and bolted. More than likely the fate was already sealed by then anyway. :(

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

External forces had a hand in this as well. The great land speculation flatulence resulted in some great tracks being sold to speculators only to sit idle and rot all across the country. Nazareth has the distinction of being the most well known but there are many others. Two of my favorite dirt tracks, Portland Speedway and Manzanita share Nazareth's ugly fate.

For that matter, without the investment bank weasels, and their IPO's For Dummies, CART would have never gone public.

oc

[cameraman]

my favorite dirt tracks, Portland Speedway shares Nazareth's ugly fate.

oc

But, but it is sooooo valuable as a trailer storage field:shakehead

google 9403 Oregon 99E, Portland, OR to see...

[JohnHKart]

External forces had a hand in this as well. The great land speculation flatulence resulted in some great tracks being sold to speculators only to sit idle and rot all across the country. Nazareth has the distinction of being the most well known but there are many others. Two of my favorite dirt tracks, Portland Speedway and Manzanita share Nazareth's ugly fate.

For that matter, without the investment bank weasels, and their IPO's For Dummies, CART would have never gone public.

oc



Yeah even happened in LA. Ascot sat virtually empty for over ten years. You could still see the dirt and outline of a racetrack. It's now just a parking lot. It's crazy, even alot of Ontario Motor Speedway is still just dirt nothing.

[Napoleon]

I still sits waiting for a better economy and sale.


I think if something isn't developed now there is a pretty good chance it either never be developed or will be so slowly it could easily be 20 years before something happens to it. The amount of retail space the US has is so out of whack with global and historical norms that it will take years and years to burn off the CRE overhang (and the next wave of bank failures will likely occurs in 2010 as that starts to happen).

As to residential the trend was already in the direction of infill of existing metro areas (ie, reuse of existing developed area) and any increases in energy prices, which IMO is inevitable, will only reinforce this trend. I think I read recently that Philadelphia, a city you live near, actually is adding population contrary to all rust belt city trends since 1950, and it is expected that some other cities may not be far behind.

Trevor may be walking that track through the woods (lets call it Speedway Park) with his kid someday.

[Elmo T]

Ontario Motor Speedway is still just dirt nothing.

Half of Langhorne is a K-Mart, the other half is still a vacant field. :rolleyes:

Trenton is a sculpture garden (http://www.groundsforsculpture.org/fairhist.htm).

I never did see a race there, this was a true roval with a right turn.

http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/Trackmaps/TrentonSpeedway.jpg

[Tifosi24]

I think if something isn't developed now there is a pretty good chance it either never be developed or will be so slowly it could easily be 20 years before something happens to it. The amount of retail space the US has is so out of whack with global and historical norms that it will take years and years to burn off the CRE overhang (and the next wave of bank failures will likely occurs in 2010 as that starts to happen).

As to residential the trend was already in the direction of infill of existing metro areas (ie, reuse of existing developed area) and any increases in energy prices, which IMO is inevitable, will only reinforce this trend. I think I read recently that Philadelphia, a city you live near, actually is adding population contrary to all rust belt city trends since 1950, and it is expected that some other cities may not be far behind.

Trevor may be walking that track through the woods (lets call it Speedway Park) with his kid someday.

Very good post. The slow pace of development that is likely to happen in the coming years can be summed up by this story from a job interview I was on about four years ago. I was interviewing for an economic development position in my wife's hometown, Dubuque, and I went out for a city tour with one of the planners. For anyone familiar with that part of Iowa, the recession of the early 80s completely devastated this city and it has just now recovered. While on this tour, the planner drives me through a new subdivision I was familiar with and told me that this was actually phase two of the development. Not a big deal, but the strange thing was that stage one was actually the 30 year old neighborhood across the street. The new development drawings and plans had been on the books since the late 1970s, but the local economy tanked and the land owner decided to wait until things improved. Needless to say, he waited a very long time. Tales like this will be told decades from now in parts of the US, but ona much larger scale.

[oddlycalm]

Trenton is a sculpture garden.

I never did see a race there, this was a true roval with a right turn.
It was also called a kidney bean or dog leg. Whatever it was called it was unique, exciting and it was located in the middle of a strong market. It never should have gone away.

I blame the IMS and Tony Hulman for making certain that Trenton and other the other venues were the red haired step kids while maintaining all the focus on mindy.

oc

[miatanut]

Yup!

The one thing that hasn't changed in the sport. :thumdown:

[pchall]

The CART owners had their heads up their butts about engine and chassis regs from the early 80s on. They were running an engine formula that had its origins in the 1938 Grand Prix rules. They messed that up by banning the NA engines and eventually requiring all the engines to be V8s. They missed the boat by not adopting the F1 1.5t formula when that was ended in the late 80s. Same thing with chassis. When the boundary layer aero technology Eagles were written out of the series the cars were in successive seasons homogenized by chassis and aero regs to Reynard and Lola. Then only Lola.