Stupid human holiday tricks...

[KLang]

CNN breaking news: Passenger lights firecrackers as Northwest Airlines flight lands in Detroit; minor injuries reported.

Hopefully this bozo gets to know the inside of a jail cell really well.

Wonder what new checks the TSA will be doing now? :irked:

[cameraman]

Nothing like a Federal felony conviction for abject stupidity.

At least they weren't landing in SLC so it won't land on my wife's desk.

[Elmo T]

Wonder what new checks the TSA will be doing now? :irked:

Bigger question how they missed that. :saywhat:

[oddlycalm]

Bringing the cost of air travel down to where slack jaw morons and 3rd world villagers can afford it seems to have had, um, variable results. I have the same reaction to kids getting getting convicted as sex offenders over "sexting" pictures on their cell phones. Casting pearls before swine, etc.... Unlimited access to powerful tools for anyone from kiddies to those still living in a 13th century tribal reality may be a commercial success but it's a bit of a social nightmare.

oc

[G.]

Doesn't appear to be a drunken frat boy...



AP sources: Al-Qaida link in failed plane attack
AP

By LARRY MARGASAK and LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer Larry Margasak And Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writer – 58 mins ago

WASHINGTON – A Northwest Airlines passenger from Nigeria, who said he was acting on al-Qaida's instructions, tried to blow up the plane Friday as it was landing in Detroit, law enforcement and national security officials said.

Passengers subdued the man and may have prevented him from detonating the explosives, the officials said.

"We believe this was an attempted act of terrorism," a White House official said.

ya-who-dunnit (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091226/ap_on_go_ot/us_airliner_disturbance)

[KLang]

Interesting. Probably a wannabe but it does show that first reports are seldom correct.

Also shows there isn't much stopping someone from taking most anything on a plane. :saywhat:

[Cam]

Imagine that! He's the son of an uber rich middle east/north african businessman (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/26/world/main6024210.shtml). Haven't seen that happen before have we? :shakehead

[dando]

Yemen has become a principal al Qaeda training ground and the accused suicide bomber told the FBI he was trained for more than a month in Yemen, given 80 grams of a high explosive cleverly sewn into his underpants, undetected by standard security screening.

"They know that this is a weakness and an Achilles' heel in our airport security system," said ABC News consultant and former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke.

Law enforcement authorities say tragedy was averted only because the bomb's detonator did not work.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/abdulmutallab-yemen/story?id=9430536

:eek: :shakehead Certainly looking forward to our flight to WDW in Feb. :(

-Kevin

[Michaelhatesfans]

"... given 80 grams of a high explosive cleverly sewn into his underpants, undetected by standard security screening"

Sniffer dogs?

[Elmo T]

I think the issue is the "standard screening." I know there are very sophisticated explosive detection units out there and available for use.

We can be as safe as we wish. The question is more about our tolerance for delays, intrusive inspections, etc.

[nrc]

In e-mails sent over the last six years, and obtained by ABC News,...

Thank goodness we have the press looking out for our privacy...

[G.]

Thank goodness we have the press looking out for our privacy...

I'm more worried about the counterterra czar becoming a talking head.

[Michaelhatesfans]

"... given 80 grams of a high explosive cleverly sewn into his underpants, undetected by standard security screening"

Sniffer dogs?

Check that. Everyone has to take a Bic lighter and light a fart before they get on the plane. Sorted.

[dando]

Check that. Everyone has to take a Bic lighter and light a fart before they get on the plane. Sorted.

Dude, if I eat Skyline Chili before a flight, don't stand behind me. :gomer:

-Kevin

[indyfan31]

Imagine that! He's the son of an uber rich middle east/north african businessman (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/26/world/main6024210.shtml). Haven't seen that happen before have we? :shakehead

So the old man said to anyone that would listen, "my kid's nuts, you might want to keep an eye on him", and was soundly ignored.

[Gnam]

If the response to the shoe-bomber was to x-ray everyone's footwear, then the response to the underwear bomber is not going to be pretty. :gomer:

[oddlycalm]

So the old man said to anyone that would listen, "my kid's nuts, you might want to keep an eye on him", and was soundly ignored.
Probably thought it was just another Nigerian scam. He probably asked for a small fee of $10,000 just to cover his phone calls....:\

oc

[datachicane]

If the response to the shoe-bomber was to x-ray everyone's footwear, then the response to the underwear bomber is not going to be pretty. :gomer:

:rofl:

[cameraman]

Ya know, 80 grams is 0.18 pounds. Now that could create quite a bang if it was contained tightly in a pipe or some other metallic container but in powder form sitting in a pile in this fool's lap all you are going to get is the fire he got. All this talk of of blowing the plane up is crap. At best it might cause the window to fail but he waited until the plane had descended so he lost the pressure differential. Which when you actually think about it means that the TSA directive to stay seated during the last hour of the flight will only encourage a bomber to do the job at the time when it will cause the most damage instead of the least. Which does sound like something the TSA would do.

[chop456]

So the old man said to anyone that would listen, "my kid's nuts, you might want to keep an eye on them", and was soundly ignored.

Fixed.

[G.]

Ya know, 80 grams is 0.18 pounds. Now that could create quite a bang if it was contained tightly in a pipe or some other metallic container
It was 80 grams in a container. The Flying Dutchman pulled it off of the guy and threw it, then yelled for people to pour water on it.

What is it about the decent that makes it the best time to do this? Less reaction time before ground?


(btw, nice one, chop!)

[Ankf00]

All this talk of of blowing the plane up is crap. At best it might cause the window to fail but he waited until the plane had descended so he lost the pressure differential. Which when you actually think about it means that the TSA directive to stay seated during the last hour of the flight will only encourage a bomber to do the job at the time when it will cause the most damage instead of the least. Which does sound like something the TSA would do.

that, the whole hollywood "OMG! RAPID DECOMPRESSION!!! OH NOES!!!" is funny.

[cameraman]

It was 80 grams in a container.

Yes a condom.

[Indy]

What is it about the decent that makes it the best time to do this? Less reaction time before ground?


No, the plane landing on populated area = more dead infidels on the ground.

C'mon man, you have to take this religion of peace stuff more seriously. We need more dead infidels!

[KLang]

CNN Story (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/29/airline.terror.attempt.petn/index.html) indicates the guy had enough of the explosive to do damage to the plane. He just wasn't bright enough to set it off correctly.

[G.]

Yes a condom.
Where'd you see that? That doesn't seem right. A Boy Scout could do better than that.

You come up with a fairly innovative powder (as far as detection, smell, etc. goes), then miss the physics part that any 10 year old could demonstrate with a firecracker??

[cameraman]

They scavenge or steal the explosive and don't have a clue how to effectively use it. Good for us that they were stupid people, a smart terrorist gives you the World Trade Center.

[KLang]

They were smart enough to get the d-bag onto a plane heading to the USA. Proof of concept perhaps?

[cameraman]

Stitching it into your underwear isn't exactly rocket science. What they didn't tell the fool was the autoignition temperature of petn is 190°C (375°F). That means you need to hold or otherwise contain a small fire before the stuff will explode. Picture setting such a fire in your lap.....

[dando]

Stitching it into your underwear isn't exactly rocket science. What they didn't tell the fool was the autoignition temperature of petn is 190°C (375°F). That means you need to hold or otherwise contain a small fire before the stuff will explode. Picture setting such a fire in your lap.....

I'm not quite seeing it...can you demo? :gomer: :eek:

-Kevin

[nrc]

They were smart enough to get the d-bag onto a plane heading to the USA. Proof of concept perhaps?

Could be. Usually they test this stuff before they actually attack and they should have known that getting a bang instead of burn was going to be a problem. Of course a similar thing happened with the shoe bomber.

I'm wondering if this dope was just an attempt to see if they could get the explosive onboard, with a more effective "pack it in the bathroom" container to follow? But if so why reveal their new delivery mechanism on an attempt with limited potential?

[TKGAngel]

ABC News has pictures of the underwear in question.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/northwest-airlines-flight-253-bomb-photos-exclusive/story?id=9436297

[Elmo T]

PETN is normally used a booster or initiating device for some other explosive. In this case, the PETN is serving as the primary explosive to be ignited by whatever chemical reaction was to take place with the syringe.

Whatever was in the syringe was to serve either as a booster/cap for the PETN in which case it failed) OR was to be a hypergolic reaction with sufficient energy to pop the PETN (in which case the detection and intervention by the passengers may have actually averted the explosion).

No matter the outcome here, the terrorists win: the system is disrupted, people are stressed, money is spent, etc, etc.

[oddlycalm]

No matter the outcome here, the terrorists win: the system is disrupted, people are stressed, money is spent, etc, etc.

You're right, even a failure succeeds in causing a predictable reaction. People will be taking off their shoes in security lines for years after Richard Reid is forgotten and nobody will remember how and why it began.

The Israelis have had the solution for travel security for a long time now but we've seen fit to reinvent the wheel and the result is obvious.

oc

[Don Quixote]

The Israelis have had the solution for travel security for a long time now but we've seen fit to reinvent the wheel and the result is obvious.

ocThe Israeli's say that we screen for weapons, while they screen for terrorists. Pretty clear which one works and which one doesn't.

[cameraman]

The Israelis have had the solution for travel security for a long time now but we've seen fit to reinvent the wheel and the result is obvious.

oc

But, but, but we're Americans damn it, we know what is best:gomer:

[miatanut]

We can be as safe as we wish. The question is more about our tolerance for delays, intrusive inspections, etc.

We can never be safe through screening. The opportunities are endless. The only thing that would ever make us safe would be changing direction from over 50 years of screwed-up foreign policy in the middle east. If we were to stop pissing people off far and wide, there would be enough moderates to help us neutralize the crazies before they can do damage.

[Sean Malone]

We can never be safe through screening. The opportunities are endless. The only thing that would ever make us safe would be changing direction from over 50 years of screwed-up foreign policy in the middle east. If we were to stop pissing people off far and wide, there would be enough moderates to help us neutralize the crazies before they can do damage.

And exactly how does the US theoretically stop "pissing people off"? You mean, like stop being friends with Israel? :shakehead

[extramundane]

We can never be safe through screening. The opportunities are endless. The only thing that would ever make us safe would be changing direction from over 50 years of screwed-up foreign policy in the middle east .

The 'east vs. west' issues at play date back much longer than 50 years. The creation of the Israeli state and the related issues/actions is only the latest act in the play.


And exactly how does the US theoretically stop "pissing people off"? You mean, like stop being friends with Israel? :shakehead

We could cut off all ties to Israel tomorrow and someone would still manage to blame the US for the First Crusades. It's a tangled web over there and I'm not sure it's untangle-able at this point. :\

[miatanut]

And exactly how does the US theoretically stop "pissing people off"? You mean, like stop being friends with Israel? :shakehead

The best thing the US could do would be to START being friends with Israel.

[KLang]

The best thing the US could do would be to START being friends with Israel.

Your comment makes no sense. We are usually about the only friend in the world they have.

[Elmo T]

We can never be safe through screening. The opportunities are endless.

No matter what we do, we will always have an endless string of disgruntled screwballs - both domestic and foreign - who will cause us headaches. Strictly defined, we've suffered terrorist attacks based on environmental causes, animal rights, any number of political views, abortion, racial/ethnic background, and so on. I am talking about technical security problems - NOT solving these supposed problems OR capitulating to the the crackpots. Sure there is the terrorist flavor of the day, but there will always be another nut-job ready to jump into the suicide vest. :rolleyes:


NO - we can't ever eliminate every security risk. But given the money and motivation, you can eliminate a large number. The question is willpower.

As an example, look at mall security in Israel (forget the whole Mideast peace stuff for a moment). You can choose to shop at the mall that is essentially protected like a military compound OR the local market. The choice is yours - based on your tolerance of the security measures.

Airline safety? No carry-on luggage; all passengers must pass through metal detectors, explosives portal monitors, radiological portal monitors, pat-downs; no in-flight meals; no metal soda cans; no flight attendants who could be attacked. Equip all airliners with flares and electronic jamming pods. Heck - we could even develop a system where the passengers are locked in their seats until touchdown. Don't like my security measures, then you can opt to fly with someone else. ;)

Point is, we are a free society and we will only tolerate so much. I will relate it to a fire protection question I am often asked: Who sets the acceptable level of protection/safety/security? We do by our actions, our tolerance, and by who we put in office.

My rhetorical question: how much "security" can we tolerate?

[Indy]

I think we are a few years away from the nationalization of air travel. God help us then.